Guild Wars 2

I don’t understand why everyone is hung up on it having to be a sold expansion. Like i said other MMOS (STO) are doing both expansions and LS like content and they are both free. They release 1 expansion and 1 living story per year. (If thats too often, they can alternate LS and expansion every other year.) They support themselves through a gem store too. When the free expansion came out they had additional items related to the expansion in the gemstore. They were not required to play the expansion either. They were for example costumes/armor etc useable by the new race.

With a free expansion, there is no dividing the player base. Everyone can play any content they choose. With the option of purchasing new prestige content from the gem store if they also choose.

The problem with living story is, it is Not a " real" expansion. Since it doesn’t expand how i play. There are no extra professions, no extra weapons, no extra skills, no extra… anything. Just adding a map or two, and then putting quests in it, does not an expansion make, as I define expansion.

So maybe Living story is enough for many. maybe I am in the Minority. I have no issues with Not being in the majority.

For me, a paid for expansion gets talked about On webforums, and gives magazines a reason to put Gw2 on their covers. That draws publicity, which may just bring in new players.

One. I doubt that Video Game Magazines are gonna put " Living story season III" On their cover, But " Gw2 Expansion, new professions, new skills, new weapons… go to page 16!"

Two. For me, I admit, I grew as a gamer during the time that similar to " Publish or perish" NOT coming out with an expansion basically told your player-base." Maybe it’s time to move on." I am beginning to get that urge for a Gw2 expansion, And if I don’t get one …. WoD is around the corner, so is Archeage, so is EQ Next, etc etc etc… ( won’t even look into Wildstar, gw2 is my last NCSoft Title, I’m still hurt about CoH/V)

Maybe I am in the Minority. Maybe Anet has it all figured out. Maybe the game won’t lose a bunch of players because of no paid for expansion. Maybe Living story IS the new thing , and it will retain as many players as a paid-for expansion might have retained?

" Tune in for further developements"

Galphar.3901:

On the dividing up of the player base, isn’t that happening now with Living Story? What I see in game is everyone farming Dry Top or just logging in long enough to do the new LS Ep and not returning until next update, rinse, repeat.

While this is true to some extent… you’re also not being charged for it, either.

chemiclord.3978:

Galphar.3901:

On the dividing up of the player base, isn’t that happening now with Living Story? What I see in game is everyone farming Dry Top or just logging in long enough to do the new LS Ep and not returning until next update, rinse, repeat.

While this is true to some extent… you’re also not being charged for it, either.

So the issue for you is not so much that it divides the player-base, but that what divides the player-base is whether or not the content costs money, mainly because, maybe you do not wish to spend it?

Me personally I have no issue spending $39 + on an actual expasion, with all it entails. People forget MMO’s are still One of the cheapest forms of entertainment.

Let’s see, even if an expansion were to cost $60, after 2 years that comes out to $2.50 a month. To me, $2.50 a month doesn’t seem to be a major financial hurdle.

Morsus.5106:

Karizee.8076:

Expansions are bad. Even Blizzard thinks so.
http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/08/19/blizzards-chilton-expansions-are-barriers-to-people-coming-bac/

Content is good however. Looking forward to how the big projects will roll out

It could be like the Guild Wars 1 expansions, where it was really a separate game.

That would require that the developers of GW1 return to ArenaNet. This ArenaNet would not be able to pull it off.

Ayrilana.1396:

Income was not the sole argument of my post. The game cannot last large gaps of time without influxes of new content. There is no grind to keep players occupied. You’ll then have people who stop playing the game and move onto something else. When an expansion is released, you’ll have people for a month or two before they exhaust that content and leave.

You’re also forcing all players to now have to pay to get access to new content rather than enjoy it for free via the living story.

Nothing is free, if you don’t pay it by buying expansions then you will not get expansion-like content or it will have to get paid with cash-shop income what has it’s own very negative effects on the game. Besides nobody gets forced to buy the expansion. If they want to play it they can buy it and else they don’t need to buy it. That’s what you should expect in a B2P game (in stead of a cash-shop focus) just as it worked for the initial game itself.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Nerelith.7360:

~

~

Each time that an expansion came out, I had to ask myself. “Do I want to pay $20 to $30 for new maps, new professions, new skills… new mobs..etc?” and the answer was usually yes.

I still want my money back for Lost Dungeons. There were not really new maps so much as instanced missions, no new professions/classes, no new skills, just grinding for the new shiny loot object – “Augments”. Things we now have as a standard in the MMOs. And they weren’t really as useful as Runes/Sigils are currently Yes, any of them. Even the silly Pirate ones.

THIS is Not a reason why Anet should not provide a paid for expansion. If players do NOT wish to pay for the content, they are free to NOT buy it. But ..that is Not a reason for Anet to not give the rest of us the option. " But I won’t be able to explore the new content" is the price paid, for not paying the price of the expansion.

I agree. It should be the consequence of not paying for the expansion . . . not having access to anything out of it. But that’s also the problem with expansions, one of the principal ones with paid expansions. It starts dividing up the pool of players a little at a time, and it can seriously be a detriment to those who can’t afford the expansion right away. (Or at all.)

Oh, and woe be to the company which puts out an expansion which is lackluster or ripe with any form of power-creep within it. (While I mostly trust ArenaNet could make sure no raw power was gained, I do not trust them to put out an expansion where it wouldn’t wind up more advantageous to own it and have the content there to farm.)

Then you should talk about those specific element not wanting them in an expansion. Not wanting an expansion to make older stuff irrelevant not not wanting an expansion. Also without expansions you can get patches that has these sort of effects so that’s completely unrelated to expansions by itself.

So then you don’t want any changes at all or you don’t want changes that make old stuff irrelevant but then that’s what you should focus on. Not expansions themselves.

“It starts dividing up the pool of players a little at a time.” Nah it does not. In general most players of MMO’s just buy the expansions, maybe some a little later then other but overall players who keep playing also buy the expansion. Why would they not? They did also buy the initial game. The whole (non) argument that expansions would separate the player-base is something that in fact seems to come from these forums from people who where trying to defend Anet for not implementing expansion and using a statement from Anet but not understanding what Anet was talking about.

You see, GW1 had standalone expansions. That where basically separate games not additions that expanded the current games. Some people would prefer one of those ‘games’ over the other and so the playerbase got divided up. Because of that Anet said they would not have standalone expansions for GW2 because that would divided up the playerbase (but that they would have expansions for sure.. that’s what they said back then). Some media did then report that incorrectly as GW2 will not have expansions because Anet thinks it’s separates the player-base to much. Something sill being used in these forum by people trying to defend Anet for not having released an expansion so far.

But in all reality it is not a very valid point. On average active players who where willing to buy the initial game will also be willing to buy an expansion. That’s how it go’s in most MMO’s so there is no reason to think that in GW2 when we would have expansions the player-base gets divided up a lot. It’s just not realistic.

About the people who can’t buy it right away. Well they can buy it a little later. There is no problem with that is it? It’s not like we are dealing with some poor people who never have the money to buy a game or an expansion as they already did buy the game itself. Besides we do not all have to worry about if maybe somebody will not be able to buy it. That’s like saying we should not sell anything for money in this world because you know maybe some people can’t buy it. A game is a luxury good. So sorry but what a nonsense to talk about people who maybe are not able to buy it.

And yes a new expansion will have new content to do. That’s the whole point of an expansions.

An expansion is a great thing for any game, especially Guild Wars 2. But to provide such a thing Anet has to offer something that not even Living Story could provide, justifying the cost to buy it to begin with. And there is also the issue of when is the best time to get an expansion.

Devata.6589:

Then you should talk about those specific element not wanting them in an expansion. Not wanting an expansion to make older stuff irrelevant not not wanting an expansion. Also without expansions you can get patches that has these sort of effects so that’s completely unrelated to expansions by itself.

Not sure I understand that there.

So then you don’t want any changes at all or you don’t want changes that make old stuff irrelevant but then that’s what you should focus on. Not expansions themselves.

Oh, right. Well we are talking about expansions here, not the nebulous changes which are all in our heads over what is/should be in an expansion. Everyone has their own benchmarks . . . which are pretty high numbers and goals to add. 20 zones, seriously? That’s considerably close to half the size of what we have now. New races and/or classes . . . though I recall how that kind of wound up getting less good with Nightfall’s Paragon. (Either too powerful or too pointless.)

The whole (non) argument that expansions would separate the player-base is something that in fact seems to come from these forums from people who where trying to defend Anet for not implementing expansion and using a statement from Anet but not understanding what Anet was talking about.

Oh. No, no it’s older than that.

You see, GW1 had standalone expansions. That where basically separate games not additions that expanded the current games. Some people would prefer one of those ‘games’ over the other and so the playerbase got divided up. Because of that Anet said they would not have standalone expansions for GW2 because that would divided up the playerbase (but that they would have expansions for sure.. that’s what they said back then). Some media did then report that incorrectly as GW2 will not have expansions because Anet thinks it’s separates the player-base to much. Something sill being used in these forum by people trying to defend Anet for not having released an expansion so far.

I played GW1, thanks. I know about how it was designed and the trouble that had – I had family I basically couldn’t do content with because they only had Nightfall for several months.

But in all reality it is not a very valid point. On average active players who where willing to buy the initial game will also be willing to buy an expansion. That’s how it go’s in most MMO’s so there is no reason to think that in GW2 when we would have expansions the player-base gets divided up a lot. It’s just not realistic.

It’s probably not a strong point, agreed. What follows later is a little stronger though.

About the people who can’t buy it right away. Well they can buy it a little later. There is no problem with that is it?

That depends on whether they can get to it when the new content is still being done often enough to make it “do-able”. Like how anyone coming late to Tower of Nightmares had a rougher time trying to do it since the bulk of people were finished with it.

That’s the division I’m somewhat more leery of.

steveway.3167:

I don’t understand why everyone is hung up on it having to be a sold expansion. Like i said other MMOS (STO) are doing both expansions and LS like content and they are both free. They release 1 expansion and 1 living story per year. (If thats too often, they can alternate LS and expansion every other year.) They support themselves through a gem store too. When the free expansion came out they had additional items related to the expansion in the gemstore. They were not required to play the expansion either. They were for example costumes/armor etc useable by the new race.

With a free expansion, there is no dividing the player base. Everyone can play any content they choose. With the option of purchasing new prestige content from the gem store if they also choose.

Because that means that Anet can focus on those expansions to earn money in stead of the cash-shop and so the game won’t have to suffer under that cash-shop focus.

“Everyone can play any content they choose.” If that content even exist and is fun and has not become a “ don’t play for but buy the item you want” because of that cash-shop focus.

“With the option of purchasing new prestige content from the gem store if they also choose.” You mean buying items. Well I like to play for them that’s why I buy a game.. to play it, not to then buy items for in the game.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

~

Once again what you are talking about boils down not so much to expansions or no expansions but how new content should be designed. So not in a way they would not be able to complete it once the bulk of people had completed. So in other words, you want content that does keep older content relevant and you can also do when there are less people around.

(That’s also what I said in the beginning but what you did not understand)

That is all fine and we can talk about that but it is not a point to argue if there would be an expansion or not. Only way I can make sense of that is that you truly believe that a paid expansion will for sure do that and patches will not do that. I think changes of that happening are equal and so see it as unrelated to the expansion discussion. But that’s me.

Devata.6589:

That is all fine and we can talk about that but it is not a point to argue if there would be an expansion or not. Only way I can make sense of that is that you truly believe that a paid expansion will for sure do that and patches will not do that. I think changes of that happening are equal and so see it as unrelated to the expansion discussion. But that’s me.

I believe my experience with an expansion-based MMO where steadily everything moved into the expansion areas and away from anything which the game launched with . . . barring, of course, certain zones which were either community-agreed to be hubs or areas where the loot/XP farming was significantly easier than elsewhere.

(I will trot out my “East Karana Silk Farmer” bumper sticker if I need to.)

If you want to know why I am concerned mostly about this thing, it’s just because I lived it once. I rather am hesitant to back a “traditional expansion” concept since those have a rather specific flavor to them I don’t like.

I did not have a trouble with how GW1 handled it, primarily because it did interlace better. But GW1 was . . . really an aberration and not an MMO. (It was, to put it mildly, Diablo 2 rebuilt with a side of PvP intended to be in it and kept moderately balaned . . . rather than thrown in on for the heck of it. But that’s another topic.)

I didn’t have a problem with how UO handled it, because the vanilla world still was important – more than likely, all your housing and stuff was still there and required careful attention to avoid getting things ripped off. (But then, I didn’t think much of how UO handled a lot of things, I was too busy never leaving town most of the day.)

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

I believe my experience with an expansion-based MMO where steadily everything moved into the expansion areas and away from anything which the game launched with . . . barring, of course, certain zones which were either community-agreed to be hubs or areas where the loot/XP farming was significantly easier than elsewhere.

To me, new zones aren’t as important in an expansion since it’s really not ‘where’ you do things, it’s ‘what’ you do in the places you can go. But adding new zones and people migrating to them is just the way the norm flows. It doesn’t have to be that way (especially with how GW2 handles level scaling in areas), but it’s to be slightly expected.

Even if it does happen, I’m not one of those players that sweats it. On one hand, you have the overcrowded places where players press through and farm all the area’s content, break immersion with constant zone chat, and and large zergs that generally turn the content from an interesting challenge to a boring inevitable race to get the loot. On the other hand, you have a secluded spot where you don’t have to worry about people butting in and if a challenge gets too rough, come back to it later with friends.

Adding more zones won’t fix that, but having ‘ghost zones’ isn’t a problem in itself since these can be places where your guild hunt sends you, where you go to solo some hearts, practice a profession you haven’t played much of, or just RP while you mash some faces.

To me, it’s not about whether or not zones are as utilized as others (because that’s just going to happen; some new dragon will come along and the only populated zone will be the zone it shows up in) but how you utilize what the game provides you. Because if the devs feel a zone is underutilized, they can simply add content to that zone, temporary or permanent.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

That depends on whether they can get to it when the new content is still being done often enough to make it “do-able”. Like how anyone coming late to Tower of Nightmares had a rougher time trying to do it since the bulk of people were finished with it.

That’s the division I’m somewhat more leery of.

The average expansion sells for $60 tops, most expansions can be as cheap as $29, as expensive as $49.

Let’s assume that Anet does an expansion that includes

1. 2 playable races
2. 2 new character professions
3. more character creation options
4. 25 to 40 % added to the world in terms of new maps, along with new quests to Put in them.
5. new skills
6. new weapons
   etc,etc,etc

Let us even say that the price they put on it is $60. That is $60 after 2 years worth of free content. That only costs $2.50 a month. It seems to me that what a Lot of the players that are against paid expansions are against, is paying for it.

Some say they love Living Story. I think it’s the fact that it’s free that they like.

Some of us do not like Living Story because of the actual story. I personally dis-like Living Story, because it is a Road-block to a paid expansion.

I rather pay $60 and get extra professions extra weapons, extra skills, etc… increased functionality. Expanded game-play.

I can understand that there may be players that dislike the idea of paying money. I simply feel that a paid expansion … is something MMO’s have always developed at some point in their life-cycle.

Maybe some people do not wish to pay for an expansion, well… That would be their choice. They have the option to not pay for the expansion, that doesn’t mean we should not have the option to pay for it ourselves.

By that argument no one would ever sell a Lambhorgini, or a Rolls-Royce. Not everyone will pay for one.

All I can think of is that it’s better to have a portion of the playerbase divided than a portion of the playerbase not playing at all.

Karizee.8076:

Expansions are bad. Even Blizzard thinks so.
http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/08/19/blizzards-chilton-expansions-are-barriers-to-people-coming-bac/

Content is good however. Looking forward to how the big projects will roll out

Are they raising the level cap with the expansion? Does WoW do that? If so… ugh. I hate that.

Quickfoot Katana.8642:

All I can think of is that it’s better to have a portion of the playerbase divided than a portion of the playerbase not playing at all.

I agree 100 %. Those that make the " divided player-base" non-argument, act as if this " division" were being forced on them. If they are " divided" out , because they did not buy the expansion, that is something self-determined.

Secondly, as Devata said. The whole" divided player-base" argument was a misunderstanding of what Anet said about " stand-alone" games. Guild Wars: Factions for example. While " stand-alone" was an awesome concept that is what Anet said divided the player-base. That is what they said they would never do again.

Anet does not divide the player-base by offering expansions, the player-base divides itself by choosing to not buy the new expansions. People not wanting to pay for an expansion is not a compelling argument for why Anet should not offer one.

Since the release of UO… paid-for expansions have been offered, and some players buy it, and some don’t. Some buy it immediately, and some buy it later on. Fact is that there will always be a group of players that opts out of buying the new expansion. That is the choice they make, as is their choice. Just because that group exists doesn’t mean that everyone else shouldn’t get the option to choose to purchase.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

(I will trot out my “East Karana Silk Farmer” bumper sticker if I need to.)

Loved the Karanas also. I still remember my first encounter with Grimfeather, that bird still owes me 50 platinum.

Tachenon.5270:

Karizee.8076:

Expansions are bad. Even Blizzard thinks so.
http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/08/19/blizzards-chilton-expansions-are-barriers-to-people-coming-bac/

Content is good however. Looking forward to how the big projects will roll out

Are they raising the level cap with the expansion? Does WoW do that? If so… ugh. I hate that.

If Anet sticks to what they did with Guild Wars we need not be concerned about level creep. The whole idea is to keep level 80, as cap, and add content from which a level 80 can be challenged. This is why I feel that when a level 80 visits a low level zone, they should be scaled down more. This way the entire game becomes a level 80 zone. This is what they promised at launch… would be nice if they stuck closer to their stated intent, but that’s another thread.

So what happens to the player base when they have exhausted all of the new content from an expansion within a month or two, like they do for each living story episode but in days, and then have nothing to do for the next year or two until the next expansion?

Ayrilana.1396:

So what happens to the player base when they have exhausted all of the new content from an expansion within a month or two, like they do for each living story episode but in days, and then have nothing to do for for the next year or two until the next expansion?

Well, the content this game had at launch kept me playing for over a year. An expansion providing that much content on top of the original content? Can you say ‘woo hoo!’

Instead, we got living story. Instead of a woo hoo, we got a boo hoo.

Tachenon.5270:

Ayrilana.1396:

So what happens to the player base when they have exhausted all of the new content from an expansion within a month or two, like they do for each living story episode but in days, and then have nothing to do for for the next year or two until the next expansion?

Well, the content this game had at launch kept me playing for over a year. An expansion providing that much content on top of the original content? Can you say ‘woo hoo!’

Instead, we got living story. Instead of a woo hoo, we got a boo hoo.

Expansions tend not to keep people playing as long as the original though. I mean even in Guild Wars 1 where you had stand alone games, Factions was much much smaller than Prophecies and Eye of the North, the only true expansion, couldn’t very well keep you playing as long as the main games…because it was much smaller, with no new classes or starting areas.

Ayrilana.1396:

So what happens to the player base when they have exhausted all of the new content from an expansion within a month or two, like they do for each living story episode but in days, and then have nothing to do for the next year or two until the next expansion?

Are you offering this up as some kind of weird counter argument against expansions? Are you trying to argue against new content?! People have already grown weary of the same old content (they’ve been weary for a good while now), so I imagine if people exhaust new expansion content we’d have a situation somewhat similar to what we see today. However, major complaints are aimed at the quality of content currently in circulation, e.g. poorly designed dungeon encounters, stale PvP, WvW, etc. If ANet stepped up their game and started producing, for instance, multiple game modes for PvP and dungeon encounters that didn’t all involve 5 zerkers stacking, then I’d wager there’d be a significant decrease in player malaise and frustration, and an increase in content longevity.

I think an expansion is absolutely necessary for GW2, especially for those of us who loathe the LS. I hate the small piecemeal pace of it – I don’t want a single new map (or an ugly rework of an existing one – I’m looking at you, Kessex Hills) every 6 months or so, I want a whole series of zones to explore (please gawd give us Cantha and Elona at some point!) complete with new dungeons, factions, etc. Part of the charm of expansions, at least for me, is that it gives games a freshness, it makes the game feel shiny and new again, and I’d very much like that for GW2.

I will tell you why. Because over the pass 3 months, the casual pve guild I’m in dropped from 20people online on the weekend to now 5. On the weekdays, it is even hard to call for a dungeon run. Many people I know in GW2 went to try other games. GW2 is a great game for sure, but anything can get boring without changes in a long time. Our guild has beaten dungeons, guild missions, world bosses, now what are we gonna do?

Ayrilana.1396:

So what happens to the player base when they have exhausted all of the new content from an expansion within a month or two, like they do for each living story episode but in days, and then have nothing to do for the next year or two until the next expansion?

That would happen assuming that the new content released in the expansion would have the same level of replayability than the LS. However, that is not the case because the LS episodes have far less replay value than the content that you would find in an expansion.
We’ve been doing the same dungeons, pvp and wvw for 2 years in gw2, not a month or two. Now think how many players are gonna replay each episode of the LS for 2 years. Once they are done with the achievements, they move to dungeons, pvp, wvw, etc because that is the content that has replay value.

Kaz.5430:

Let’s imagine that an expansion pack might look something like this:

$60.00 (or 4800 gems)
———————————-
- 20x New Maps
- 2x New Races
- 2x New Storyline Quests
- 2x New Professions
- 2x New Weapon Types
- 20x New Utility Skills (per profession)
- 10x New Traits (per profession)

If you release this as a separate standalone expansion in the normal sense, then you create a portion of the world that cannot be visited unless you pay for the expansion.

This would create problems over time with the Living Story, because ANet would either have to release LS content that not everyone could play, or avoid any new areas.

You also end up with a series of traits and utilities that could be used in PvP but not available to everyone.

Personally I’d prefer this hypothetical expansion to be released in chunks.

e.g.

Everybody gets the following parts of the expansion for free
- 20x New Maps
- 20x New Utility Skills (per profession)
- 10x New Traits (per profession)

You can then optionally purchase (via a box in your local game shop, or via gems)

2x Race Expansions (available individually)
$10 (or 1600 gems) each
- 1x New Race
- 1x New Storyline Quest

2x Profession Expansions (available individually)
$10 (or 1600 gems) each
- 1x Profession

2x Weapon Expansions (available individually)
$5 (or 800 gems) each
- 1x Weapon Type

You still end up spending $60 or 4800 gems for the entire expansion, but the maps and skills/traits for core professions are available to everyone preventing divisions in the community.

This. I’d be alright with things being handled like this. The maps and core content can span the LS and paid content is still appealing.

Ayrilana.1396:

So what happens to the player base when they have exhausted all of the new content from an expansion within a month or two, like they do for each living story episode but in days, and then have nothing to do for the next year or two until the next expansion?

I have heard this false argument for some time now. That " New content In an expansion is exhausted in a month or two."

here’s a thought, are you still playing characters that came with the game at launch? Then yoiu have not exhausted that content have you?

If a new profession or two is released, you know when that content is exhausted? when Players stop playing that profession. If they release a new race or two, do you know when that content is exhausted? When players stop playing THAT content.

When an expansion is released, quests can be completed, and maps can be completed. So that content may be exhausted. The problem is, that there are many players that do not see " a new peofession" as content that can ONLY be exhausted when players stop playing it.

You expand the game, you give players NEW ways to play the fame. THAT content can ONLY be exhausted when people stop playing it. New professions, new races, new weapons and skills, can never be exhausted, until people stop playing them.

Vayne.8563:

Tachenon.5270:

Ayrilana.1396:

So what happens to the player base when they have exhausted all of the new content from an expansion within a month or two, like they do for each living story episode but in days, and then have nothing to do for for the next year or two until the next expansion?

Well, the content this game had at launch kept me playing for over a year. An expansion providing that much content on top of the original content? Can you say ‘woo hoo!’

Instead, we got living story. Instead of a woo hoo, we got a boo hoo.

Expansions tend not to keep people playing as long as the original though. I mean even in Guild Wars 1 where you had stand alone games, Factions was much much smaller than Prophecies and Eye of the North, the only true expansion, couldn’t very well keep you playing as long as the main games…because it was much smaller, with no new classes or starting areas.

I hope I read this wrong but, Factions was not smaller than Prophecies and it added Ritualist and Assassin Professions to the game. Getting to max level(20) was much quicker in Factions than Prophecies but there was also much more “End-game” in Factions. We also got Alliances and control of towns based on PvP.

Eye of the North was the only “true” expansion to GW and it did not add any new classes but did add new skills and new types of skills that were PvE only skills.

Vayne.8563:

Tachenon.5270:

Ayrilana.1396:

So what happens to the player base when they have exhausted all of the new content from an expansion within a month or two, like they do for each living story episode but in days, and then have nothing to do for for the next year or two until the next expansion?

Well, the content this game had at launch kept me playing for over a year. An expansion providing that much content on top of the original content? Can you say ‘woo hoo!’

Instead, we got living story. Instead of a woo hoo, we got a boo hoo.

Expansions tend not to keep people playing as long as the original though. I mean even in Guild Wars 1 where you had stand alone games, Factions was much much smaller than Prophecies and Eye of the North, the only true expansion, couldn’t very well keep you playing as long as the main games…because it was much smaller, with no new classes or starting areas.

Maybe that’s true for you. Maybe it’s even true for most people. As for me, the campaigns and the expansion kept me going for many years. Not all consecutive, of course. I was also playing on two accounts, both with all the campaigns and EoTN. If the ArenaNet that existed then still existed now and was still putting out Guild Wars campaigns and/or expansions of that quality, I’d still be buying them – for both accounts. And yes, it was not all wine and roses. Nothing ever is. Except maybe for a wine and roses exhibition… uh…

Right. Where were we? Oh, yeah.

I did not, however, buy GW2 for my second Guild Wars account, nor do I have any intention of ever doing so. Thanks in no small part to a certain ‘infamous’ day back in November of 2012. ;-)

xev.9476:

Ayrilana.1396:

So what happens to the player base when they have exhausted all of the new content from an expansion within a month or two, like they do for each living story episode but in days, and then have nothing to do for the next year or two until the next expansion?

Are you offering this up as some kind of weird counter argument against expansions? Are you trying to argue against new content?! People have already grown weary of the same old content (they’ve been weary for a good while now), so I imagine if people exhaust new expansion content we’d have a situation somewhat similar to what we see today. However, major complaints are aimed at the quality of content currently in circulation, e.g. poorly designed dungeon encounters, stale PvP, WvW, etc. If ANet stepped up their game and started producing, for instance, multiple game modes for PvP and dungeon encounters that didn’t all involve 5 zerkers stacking, then I’d wager there’d be a significant decrease in player malaise and frustration, and an increase in content longevity.

I think an expansion is absolutely necessary for GW2, especially for those of us who loathe the LS. I hate the small piecemeal pace of it – I don’t want a single new map (or an ugly rework of an existing one – I’m looking at you, Kessex Hills) every 6 months or so, I want a whole series of zones to explore (please gawd give us Cantha and Elona at some point!) complete with new dungeons, factions, etc. Part of the charm of expansions, at least for me, is that it gives games a freshness, it makes the game feel shiny and new again, and I’d very much like that for GW2.

Please don’t resort to strawman arguments please. Nowhere did I state that I did not want content. I just don’t think expansions are a good idea with this particular game. There are other ways of releasing content.

You just want all of the content at once. That is all. Once you’ve exhausted all of that content within a matter or months and become bored, we’ll be right back here where we are now.

Why do you think an expansion would add more? Your not asking for more content just HOW they put out that content. So the best “guess” of what you would get from an expansion in GW2 would be the time between each expansion compared to the LS but just all at once. So say 6 months because “GW1 did it” (still think this is a very bad point of view on GW2) we would see 6 months of ls all at once. Lets use season one LS because we had not hit the 6 month mark for season two.

March – August https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/releases/ we would have
Flame and Frost
Super Adventure Box part 1
Southsun Cove
Dragon Bash
Aetherblade
Bazaar of the Four Winds
The vote
Crown Pavilion
ClockworkChaos

It would not be open world most events would need to be in there own zones so you would be able to progress though the story and to some point it would be very confusing to have a blob of content just simply dropped on players. Odds are it would take less then 6 months more like 2 weeks to do all the content and then you wait for the next 6 months. Over all if you want an open world story you cant have expansion that progress a story or your going to have parts of the story that ppl do before other parts over all destroying the start mid and end of a story arc.

Ayrilana.1396:

Please don’t resort to strawman arguments please. Nowhere did I state that I did not want content. I just don’t think expansions are a good idea with this particular game. There are other ways of releasing content.

You just want all of the content at once. That is all. Once you’ve exhausted all of that content within a matter or months and become bored, we’ll be right back here where we are now.

I asked a question – if you were arguing against new content. That’s not a strawman, it’s a question, and I’d wager a good one since several people have pointed out how silly your claim that people exhaust content in a month or so is.

Nerelith.7360:

Ayrilana.1396:

So what happens to the player base when they have exhausted all of the new content from an expansion within a month or two, like they do for each living story episode but in days, and then have nothing to do for the next year or two until the next expansion?

I have heard this false argument for some time now. That " New content In an expansion is exhausted in a month or two."

here’s a thought, are you still playing characters that came with the game at launch? Then yoiu have not exhausted that content have you?

If a new profession or two is released, you know when that content is exhausted? when Players stop playing that profession. If they release a new race or two, do you know when that content is exhausted? When players stop playing THAT content.

When an expansion is released, quests can be completed, and maps can be completed. So that content may be exhausted. The problem is, that there are many players that do not see " a new peofession" as content that can ONLY be exhausted when players stop playing it.

You expand the game, you give players NEW ways to play the fame. THAT content can ONLY be exhausted when people stop playing it. New professions, new races, new weapons and skills, can never be exhausted, until people stop playing them.

Nope. I’ll use another word then since you’re confused. Bored. How’s that? You can only play something for so long until it’s appeal diminishes. That doesn’t mean that you completely stop playing. Look at the attitudes of everyone that wants an expansion. Sure f they haven’t exhausted existing content then they don’t need an expansion?

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Kaz.5430:

Let’s imagine that an expansion pack might look something like this:

$60.00 (or 4800 gems)
———————————-
- 20x New Maps
- 2x New Races
- 2x New Storyline Quests
- 2x New Professions
- 2x New Weapon Types
- 20x New Utility Skills (per profession)
- 10x New Traits (per profession)

If you release this as a separate standalone expansion in the normal sense, then you create a portion of the world that cannot be visited unless you pay for the expansion.

This would create problems over time with the Living Story, because ANet would either have to release LS content that not everyone could play, or avoid any new areas.

You also end up with a series of traits and utilities that could be used in PvP but not available to everyone.

Personally I’d prefer this hypothetical expansion to be released in chunks.

e.g.

Everybody gets the following parts of the expansion for free
- 20x New Maps
- 20x New Utility Skills (per profession)
- 10x New Traits (per profession)

You can then optionally purchase (via a box in your local game shop, or via gems)

2x Race Expansions (available individually)
$10 (or 1600 gems) each
- 1x New Race
- 1x New Storyline Quest

2x Profession Expansions (available individually)
$10 (or 1600 gems) each
- 1x Profession

2x Weapon Expansions (available individually)
$5 (or 800 gems) each
- 1x Weapon Type

You still end up spending $60 or 4800 gems for the entire expansion, but the maps and skills/traits for core professions are available to everyone preventing divisions in the community.

This. I’d be alright with things being handled like this. The maps and core content can span the LS and paid content is still appealing.

I love Kaz’s idea. I think that if what you are going to include in the expansion is new Maps, that yes, they should Just be part of a Game update and released free of charge.

While other money-grubbing developers might see this as a way to compel purchase…i know that Anet wouldn’t..( you hear that Anet??? I believe in you!!!!)

And I think that this could be sold in chunks, so that people can buy what they like…

This is similar to what Rift does with new Souls. People that want the new races only could pay just for that, if they anted the new professions Only…same thing. And since it would be In $5 or $10 chunks…. the finacial barrier to entry would not be as steep as a “$60 for the whole box” Kind of thing.

Personally I do not see $60 as a barrier. Then again, I see the $60 in perspective. Been 2 years since game was released. $60 / 24 months = $2.50 a month.

It simply seems to me that the people objecting to a paid expansion, are complaining MORE about the Paid part.

xev.9476:

Ayrilana.1396:

Please don’t resort to strawman arguments please. Nowhere did I state that I did not want content. I just don’t think expansions are a good idea with this particular game. There are other ways of releasing content.

You just want all of the content at once. That is all. Once you’ve exhausted all of that content within a matter or months and become bored, we’ll be right back here where we are now.

I asked a question – if you were arguing against new content. That’s not a strawman, it’s a question, and I’d wager a good one since several people have pointed out how silly your claim that people exhaust content in a month or so is.

You stated that I was against new content because I did not feel an expansion was necessary. There are other wYs of releasing content such as the living story. Almost nobody would agree with not wanting new content. You completely ignored this and made the assumption that I did not want new content as a means to argue Gainst my post. That’s a strawman of at the very least flawed reasoning.

How quickly doing players currently finish content in the living story? A large number do to within a matter or days. Let’s assume we get an expansion that is 30 times as large. Those players would finish it in a month or so. 60 times as large? A couple months. You greatly underestimate how quickly players go through content.

xev.9476:

Ayrilana.1396:

Please don’t resort to strawman arguments please. Nowhere did I state that I did not want content. I just don’t think expansions are a good idea with this particular game. There are other ways of releasing content.

You just want all of the content at once. That is all. Once you’ve exhausted all of that content within a matter or months and become bored, we’ll be right back here where we are now.

I asked a question – if you were arguing against new content. That’s not a strawman, it’s a question, and I’d wager a good one since several people have pointed out how silly your claim that people exhaust content in a month or so is.

It’s not that silly. There were people who rushed to Orr and were there within a month, if I recall. And in Orr with enough numbers to start doing the event chains there, and to find out some things weren’t working right.

. . . heck, I made it to Orr before the end of September. And I wasn’t trying all that hard. There was a big thing about there not being enough to do in the game, even back in 2012.

What’s silly, at least to me, are the people who rushed to get to Arah without touching all the rest of the content. I haven’t done more than a couple cursory PvP matches, which confirmed I still suck sweaty balls at it.

What’s sillier is expecting an expansion which is smaller in any way than the core game on release isn’t going to be “exhausted” inside the same timeframe.

Ayrilana.1396:

snip

Give me a break. I didn’t state that you were against anything. I asked a sincere question because you seemed to be arguing against the addition of new content. Your clarification that you’re simply against expansion content is helpful, but still silly given that it doesn’t incorporate suggestions to give content more longevity via better designed encounters, varied PvP modes, etc. Another poster noted above that replay value is key. So, sure, lots of expansions have content that can be blown through in quick order. But it’s not that people are just asking for an expansion, but expansion content with longevity and replay value. Given that GW2 seems to be hemorrhaging veteran players, I’d say there are excellent reasons to think shabby LS content (which does nothing for PvP or WvW players) is insufficient.

Nerelith.7360:

Quickfoot Katana.8642:

All I can think of is that it’s better to have a portion of the playerbase divided than a portion of the playerbase not playing at all.

I agree 100 %. Those that make the " divided player-base" non-argument, act as if this " division" were being forced on them. If they are " divided" out , because they did not buy the expansion, that is something self-determined.

Secondly, as Devata said. The whole" divided player-base" argument was a misunderstanding of what Anet said about " stand-alone" games. Guild Wars: Factions for example. While " stand-alone" was an awesome concept that is what Anet said divided the player-base. That is what they said they would never do again.

Anet does not divide the player-base by offering expansions, the player-base divides itself by choosing to not buy the new expansions. People not wanting to pay for an expansion is not a compelling argument for why Anet should not offer one.

My friend, I’m already “divided out” by playing Ranger and using . . . at any time . . . a longbow and a bear, and being seen to do so. And it’s not ArenaNet doing that “dividing out” either.

I agree with your sentiment that “people not buying it shouldn’t be a compelling reason not to make it”, though. It still sits in memory of me not getting expansions on day/week one but waiting even a week and finding myself “behind” on it so far I might as well have skipped it entirely.

To the heart of my reservations on this topic: I have few actual . . . logical . . . objections to an expansion. I will freely admit that. But I find I can’t dismiss it – I don’t think it would be a “magic bullet” to “save the game”, and the game needs things ahead of an expansion.

Since the release of UO… paid-for expansions have been offered, and some players buy it, and some don’t.

The Vale of Sorrow and the fey elhai say differently on when things have been offered. But that’s okay, I don’t think anyone else here played that game either.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

(I will trot out my “East Karana Silk Farmer” bumper sticker if I need to.)

Loved the Karanas also. I still remember my first encounter with Grimfeather, that bird still owes me 50 platinum.

It’s entirely off-topic why I loved the Karanas despite them getting gradually emptier over time until I was pretty much all there was running around. It hinges on the “appearance of unintentional design” which had come in, and other things.

But in EQ, I reserve my hate not for the super-griffon (yes, that is how they spelled it) but more for a figure to the west: Miss Windstalker. Well, that and the people who trained without shouting a warning.

It seems to me that some, not all, but defenitely some of those that are against a paid expansion, will say they are fine with it if it is delivered as part of Living Story.

Paid expansion is paid for. Living Story is free.

Some of those against paid expansion are not against the game getting an expansion. it seems to be the delivery mechanism that they are against.

Paid expansion is paid for. Living Story is free.

Could it be that some of those, not all, but defenitely some, are not objecting to the idea of expansion, and are in fact just objecting to paying for it… and have seized on the " exhaustion of content in a month or two." simply as an excuse so they don’t have to admit.." I want it free" ?

Most of what would be part of a paid expansion never gets exhausted. No matter what they say … How does One exhaust New professions, anyone Exhaust the Mesmer or the Warrior yet?

How does One exhaust new weapons? Anyone exhaust their greatsword yet? Or their Short bow? Maybe the staff has been exhausted?

How does One exhaust new skills? How many thieves have exhausted Cloak n dagger? Or How many mesmers have exhausted Null field?

New Maps can be exhausted, New Quests can be exhausted, even new Boss mobs can be exhausted. And isn’t this what Living Story delivers?

xev.9476:

Given that GW2 seems to be hemorrhaging veteran players, I’d say there are excellent reasons to think shabby LS content (which does nothing for PvP or WvW players) is insufficient.

And things which do things for PvP or WvW players aren’t going to do anything for PvE players, either.

I think it’s hemorrhaging veterans primarily because:

- They’ve gotten bored with everything, and don’t feel any reward is worth the effort anymore.
- They feel ANet hasn’t been too good with the whole communication thing over the last year, if not longer.
- They “won” the game by getting what they wanted to do done, and don’t feel like doing the rest of it.

Though I will note – if you’re not banned, you can always come back. You’re not paying a subscription fee, and your characters are likely still there where you left them. Veteran players who quit still can come back if they feel there’s something they want to do.

xev.9476:

Ayrilana.1396:

snip

Give me a break. I didn’t state that you were against anything. I asked a sincere question because you seemed to be arguing against the addition of new content. Your clarification that you’re simply against expansion content is helpful, but still silly given that it doesn’t incorporate suggestions to give content more longevity via better designed encounters, varied PvP modes, etc. Another poster noted above that replay value is key. So, sure, lots of expansions have content that can be blown through in quick order. But it’s not that people are just asking for an expansion, but expansion content with longevity and replay value. Given that GW2 seems to be hemorrhaging veteran players, I’d say there are excellent reasons to think shabby LS content (which does nothing for PvP or WvW players) is insufficient.

Then it’s a misunderstanding on both of out parts. I was primarily arguing why an expansion was not a good idea. I wasn’t arguing what could be done better. That is more deserving of a separate thread.

At this point, adding new maps won’t really help WvW or PvP. For PvP, we need new modes such as CTF, assault/defend, last man standing, etc. Just look at FPS games and what modes they use and then incorporate those into this game. For WvW, something needs to be done about match ups and ways to make WvW more engaging rather than ball up into a zerg.

Nerelith.7360:

Could it be that some of those, not all, but defenitely some, are not objecting to the idea of expansion, and are in fact just objecting to paying for it… and have seized on the " exhaustion of content in a month or two." simply as an excuse so they don’t have to admit.." I want it free" ?

No. I can and would repurpose the money I spend on trying other games or buying MTG to buy an expansion if it came out. The price is less an issue for me (currently) than feeling all it would do is shut up the complaints about being bored for a couple weeks before it started up again.

Most of what would be part of a paid expansion never gets exhausted. No matter what they say … How does One exhaust New professions, anyone Exhaust the Mesmer or the Warrior yet?

I’m done with my mesmer. Also done with my elementalist too. Sorry, I just don’t like playing the classes so they might as well be exhausted.

How does One exhaust new weapons? Anyone exhaust their greatsword yet? Or their Short bow? Maybe the staff has been exhausted?

By all accounts, it’s wrong to use a longbow on a ranger so . . . guess that weapon is exhausted.

New Maps can be exhausted, New Quests can be exhausted, even new Boss mobs can be exhausted. And isn’t this what Living Story delivers?

Which is why people want “expansion”, which would contain much of this stuff as the content and still get “exhausted” all the same. Just with more time since there’d be more of it all at once.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Nerelith.7360:

Could it be that some of those, not all, but defenitely some, are not objecting to the idea of expansion, and are in fact just objecting to paying for it… and have seized on the " exhaustion of content in a month or two." simply as an excuse so they don’t have to admit.." I want it free" ?

No. I can and would repurpose the money I spend on trying other games or buying MTG to buy an expansion if it came out. The price is less an issue for me (currently) than feeling all it would do is shut up the complaints about being bored for a couple weeks before it started up again.

Notice I said " some". That means my observations do not apply to all. That they do not apply to you, doesn’t mean they do not apply to others.

Most of what would be part of a paid expansion never gets exhausted. No matter what they say … How does One exhaust New professions, anyone Exhaust the Mesmer or the Warrior yet?

I’m done with my mesmer. Also done with my elementalist too. Sorry, I just don’t like playing the classes so they might as well be exhausted.

Have you exhausted your Ranger?

How does One exhaust new weapons? Anyone exhaust their greatsword yet? Or their Short bow? Maybe the staff has been exhausted?

By all accounts, it’s wrong to use a longbow on a ranger so . . . guess that weapon is exhausted.

Did I say long bow? And the Point is Not a specific weapon, I am saying a weapon that was released at launch. The only players that have exhausted ALL the weapons released at launch, are players that no longer play.

New Maps can be exhausted, New Quests can be exhausted, even new Boss mobs can be exhausted. And isn’t this what Living Story delivers?

Which is why people want “expansion”, which would contain much of this stuff as the content and still get “exhausted” all the same. Just with more time since there’d be more of it all at once.

The fact that any new content will be exhausted seems to argue against any expansion. This is a non-argument. May as well cancel TV series, since the “content” will be “exhausted eventually.” Actually the shelf life of the average TV show is less than that of a paid for expansion of an MMO. You see it once, it’s exhausted.

And yet, we still see season after season of popular TV shows.

This " the content gets exhausted" is a non-issue. Since whether it is " days" for Living story" or " Months" for a paid for expansion…. the content that is exhausted .." New maps, new quests, new Boss mobs" IS what Living story focuses on.

What you would get with a paid for expansion…" New Professions, new weapons, new skills" never gets exhausted until every player stops playing, or the servers shut down.

Nerelith.7360:

So the issue for you is not so much that it divides the player-base, but that what divides the player-base is whether or not the content costs money, mainly because, maybe you do not wish to spend it?

Me personally I have no issue spending $39 + on an actual expasion, with all it entails. People forget MMO’s are still One of the cheapest forms of entertainment.

Let’s see, even if an expansion were to cost $60, after 2 years that comes out to $2.50 a month. To me, $2.50 a month doesn’t seem to be a major financial hurdle.

My issue is that the Living Story doesn’t particularly divide the player base to quite the same severity that not buying an expansion does. A person who somehow misses and decides not to buy the episodes STILL can access Dry Top and take part in the events there, for example.

But yes, I tend to be a little more lenient of details when my money is not a required part of the transaction. Is that a poor attitude? Maybe… but it is what it is.

chemiclord.3978:

Nerelith.7360:

So the issue for you is not so much that it divides the player-base, but that what divides the player-base is whether or not the content costs money, mainly because, maybe you do not wish to spend it?

Me personally I have no issue spending $39 + on an actual expasion, with all it entails. People forget MMO’s are still One of the cheapest forms of entertainment.

Let’s see, even if an expansion were to cost $60, after 2 years that comes out to $2.50 a month. To me, $2.50 a month doesn’t seem to be a major financial hurdle.

My issue is that the Living Story doesn’t particularly divide the player base to quite the same severity that not buying an expansion does. A person who somehow misses and decides not to buy the episodes STILL can access Dry Top and take part in the events there, for example.

But yes, I tend to be a little more lenient of details when my money is not a required part of the transaction. Is that a poor attitude? Maybe… but it is what it is.

Then you need to accept what it is. You are the one excluding yourself from content.

This is Like going to the ballpark, and you get a regular seat, but other people have Boxes they rent by the year, which probably give them extra amenities, their own bathroom, the equivalent of room service with someone to go get them their snacks etc….

They pay for these amenities. The spectator that chooses to NOT rent a Box excludes Himself from that " content".

Just because he doesn’t wish to rent a box, does that mean Boxes should not be made available to those that wish to rent them? because his choosing to NOT rent it, means he excludes himself from that " content"?

Nerelith.7360:

Have you exhausted your Ranger?

In a sense, yes. I still play him, but only because he’s the most familiar to me and the one character I can play the strongest. But I’m still, honestly, bored with him at times and saddened there’s no real need for a Ranger anywhere.

(Mostly just contempt.)

The fact that any new content will be exhausted seems to argue against any expansion. This is a non-argument. May as well cancel TV series, since the “content” will be “exhausted eventually.” Actually the shelf life of the average TV show is less than that of a paid for expansion of an MMO. You see it once, it’s exhausted.

And yet, we still see season after season of popular TV shows.

Let’s see season after season of Firefly If you can produce that, I’d have to find where you are so I can deliver endless amounts of cupcakes.

This " the content gets exhausted" is a non-issue. Since whether it is " days" for Living story" or " Months" for a paid for expansion…. the content that is exhausted .." New maps, new quests, new Boss mobs" IS what Living story focuses on.

What you would get with a paid for expansion…" New Professions, new weapons, new skills" never gets exhausted until every player stops playing, or the servers shut down.

Technically, neither does “new content” unless it stops existing (-cough cough- Marionette). But it more is about the feelings of those who cry the loudest for an expansion because they’re bored with what’s already out there (which they also haven’t “exhausted” entirely, they’ve just done all they care to do).

Getting an expansion will shut these sorts of things up for, hmmm . . . I’d put 10 gold down it’d be five weeks before we saw the first “okay, now what” type post. Followed by a lot of people chiming in about how the content is boring, repetitive and just “a grind”.

The only thing I think it might “fix” is making those sort of threads more scarce for a time. I think it might break more things (in some cases, breaking them worse than they already were).

And yes, I’d still buy the darn thing and play it through. I’d probably even enjoy most of it. My misgivings are whether it would do anything to “fix” things instead of adding new things to get “fixed”.

Show of hands, who here would want to see two new professions before they fix all those mesmer bugs on list? Or before we can actually get engineers to a point they don’t feel like the unfavorite stepchild? How about an expansion which contains nothing which would actually impact WvW at all but give tons of stuff to those who play in the PvE . . .

Tobias, the facts are that whilr you may have grown tired of your ranger, your Mesmer, your elementalist, etc etc etc somwhere out there, is a player that likes theirs.

As long as there are enought players that like Playing their rangers, their mesmer, their elemetalist, etc etc… there are players that have not " exhausted" the content that was here on release.

I tried to appeal to you, in terms I thought you might understand. But what I realize is, i just need to explain that while you may be tired of every class, and every weapon, and every skill..( judging from your responses to me..I simply wonder if you are serious, or if you have another agenda?), and therefore you personally may have “exhausted” all the content that came on release. There are people that haven’t.

I can understand the desire to latch on to the " Paid expansions suck, because we will all exhaust the content." but the fact is, the type of content that comes with paid expansions… New Professions, new weapons, new skills, new features…. because of their very nature, are only exhausted when enough players get exhausted of the game…that they close the servers.

The type of content that is being released with living story… new maps, new quests, new boss mobs… that is exhausted. Because Once you do a quest, you stop doing it.

I realize you are different, but…. there are players that play professions and do not exhaust professions, until they get so tired of the game that they move onto something else. The same for skills, and weapons.

This does not apply to you, I see that, but it does apply to me. I have not exhausted the professions I play, I have not exhausted the weapons they use, or the skills, or traits. I have not exhausted the armor, and it’s runes, the weapons and their sigils. The type of content that came on release, and that comes as a result of paid-for expansions.

You need to claim that " Oh content in a paid for expansion will be exhausted in a month" but that only applies to the type of content that Anet has been releasing in it’s " Living Story" and that it says is " expansion-like."

In My opinion, this argument is a non-argument, and is rather disingenuous at best.

As such, you can keep making it if you wish, personally I do not see it as a real issue.

Nerelith.7360:

Then you need to accept what it is. You are the one excluding yourself from content.

This is Like going to the ballpark, and you get a regular seat, but other people have Boxes they rent by the year, which probably give them extra amenities, their own bathroom, the equivalent of room service with someone to go get them their snacks etc….

They pay for these amenities. The spectator that chooses to NOT rent a Box excludes Himself from that " content".

Just because he doesn’t wish to rent a box, does that mean Boxes should not be made available to those that wish to rent them? because his choosing to NOT rent it, means he excludes himself from that " content"?

I think we’re talking through each other at this point.

I am not against an expansion inherently. If Arena.net wants to do so, I will no doubt buy it. But at the same time, if they claim they can do the same sort of thing, for free, through the Living Story, I’m certainly not going to say “No! Gimme a box and charge me for it!”

I’m more patient with the Living Story because of it. If I was being charged for this, I’d be more demanding, I suspect.

My theory on this is that we will GET an expansion when it becomes economically feasible for Anet…..(as in NEEDED). Right now, they are making bank with the status quo and don’t really NEED to haul back in lots of older (quit) players. This is a long term proposal for them and stretching the lifespan of this game is the main goal.

When they DO need this boost in revenue and player base (new and returning), they will release an expansion. All the whining and moaning and pleading is not going to alter this long term goal and make them show their “ace in the hole” card before it is required to maximize the longevity of the game.

chemiclord.3978:

Nerelith.7360:

Then you need to accept what it is. You are the one excluding yourself from content.

This is Like going to the ballpark, and you get a regular seat, but other people have Boxes they rent by the year, which probably give them extra amenities, their own bathroom, the equivalent of room service with someone to go get them their snacks etc….

They pay for these amenities. The spectator that chooses to NOT rent a Box excludes Himself from that " content".

Just because he doesn’t wish to rent a box, does that mean Boxes should not be made available to those that wish to rent them? because his choosing to NOT rent it, means he excludes himself from that " content"?

I think we’re talking through each other at this point.

I am not against an expansion inherently. If Arena.net wants to do so, I will no doubt buy it. But at the same time, if they claim they can do the same sort of thing, for free, through the Living Story, I’m certainly not going to say “No! Gimme a box and charge me for it!”

I’m more patient with the Living Story because of it. If I was being charged for this, I’d be more demanding, I suspect.

I do agree with you though. I feel that as long as they can keep the Player base content with Living story updates they will.

The thing for m is…. that with a paid-for expansion, playeres DO get more demanding of what is in it. See as I see it, you can have year’s worth of Living story. But I am sure you will more than likely never see New Professions, new weapons, and new skills In a Living Story update.

On the other hand…

if they announce an expansion, players will demand at least 2 ro 4 new professions, and at least 2 new races. Along with weapons and skills.

I believe, I may be wrong, that those players content with Living story, have less desire for New Professions, new skills, new weapons than they do for New maps, new quests.

While those wanting a paid expansion… have more of a desire for what normally comes in a paid expansion… new professions, new skills, new weapons, new traits…

I think whether or not Anet can satisfy players with living story, depends on what percentage belongs to the former, as opposed to the latter. And whether or not their plans are for continuous New Quest, new map, new boss mob type content,… while not providing new professions, new weapons and skills.

Call me nuts, I am itching to give Anet money for an expansion, but it has to include new professions, new weapons, new skills. Increased expanded functionality

Speaking only for myself, if there is going to be no expansion, I’m ready to call it quits.

Creating an expansion isn’t easy or time/cost effective.

Look how long it took to make GW2 with all of it’s bugs, glitches, exploits, etc still in the game even after all the changes it went through in the betas. To create an expansion that would offer content to keep veterans playing would take a massive amount of time and resources that Anet obviously doesn’t have or are willing or able to spend. If so, core GW2 would be better than it is now.

Not to mention which expansion to make?
Cantha? – It’s been done. But there’s a lot of changes to make. It’s been 200+ years. What’s happened to the Jade Sea? Echovald Forrest? The Celestial Ministry? The damage from the Afflicted? Is it time/cost effective to re-write changes to make the expansion worth developing?

Elonia? – Is there enough pre-existing lore/content to make the expansion worth it without having to write more or retcon for the sake of selling it?

Plus there are still places in Tryia that are closed off, but explorable in GW1. Crystal Desert, more of the Shiverpeaks. And this is main land Tyria, not having to cross the ocean to get to Cantha. The developers have their hands full with just the core game, an expansion without the full world being opened up would be utterly ridiculous time/money wise.