Guild Wars 2

I couldn’t even tell which specialization was supposed to be more healing/defensive related, because all 4 specializations were filled with traits that had nothing pertaining to anything relevant in PvE. There were so few of decent traits that this class is really looking like it’s going to be weaker than necro, which says a lot.

I understand there will be 2 more, but just… how could these last two specializations make up for how absolutely terrible the current specializations are?

Thinking realistically it doesn’t look like this is going to be a good class at all. I don’t understand why there’s so much emphasis on healing allies and so little options for people who just want to focus on more offensive builds.

I think it’s a L2P issue. Revenants have a specific role in combat, and it’s up to the player to utilize the mechanics for maximum effectiveness.

I gotta agree it seems like they’re favoring theme over mechanical functionality. I don’t even think this is a PVE vs PVP balance thing cause they seem like they’ll suck in both areas.

How is it a L2P issue? I’m complaining about the traits being bad, not complaining about having trouble playing it.

I compare this class’s traits to other classes’ traits, and they are dreadful by comparison. All four of the traitlines.

What’s difficult to understand?

the dps sucks on revenant. going as offensively as physically possible at this point in time, i swear it felt like i was doing negative damage. i want a dps option for traits, and a dps legend to try out, or at least a decent condi set up. if i wanted to play a healer i would go to a different game.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

I think it’s a L2P issue. Revenants have a specific role in combat

Oh, so we’re going towards holy trinity situation, where classes have specific roles?
Somehow i think, that if Revenant currently is so specialized, it’s not intended.

These traits really do look worse than the necros, and that is saying a lot.. Virtually no damage buffs, and no weapon specific buffs at all. Far too many healing traits as well. Looks like they took the weakest bits of guard, ele and necro when they designed this.

Purple Miku.7032:

How is it a L2P issue? I’m complaining about the traits being bad, not complaining about having trouble playing it.

I compare this class’s traits to other classes’ traits, and they are dreadful by comparison. All four of the traitlines.

What’s difficult to understand?

What I’m saying is that you need to learn and understand how to use the traits. GW2 is a game with dynamic fight mechanics. The traits you select assist your game play. If you feel the traits are weak before even trying to learn to use them, then it’s quite possible the Revenant doesn’t fit your Zerker play style. From what I’m seeing, this profession is more support and sustain than 1-hit kills.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

I think it’s a L2P issue. Revenants have a specific role in combat, and it’s up to the player to utilize the mechanics for maximum effectiveness.

It truly is, these skills shine so well when used together. I’ve already made such a good demon form build for myself that works great in pvp/small changes for PvE

Smooth Penguin.5294:

From what I’m seeing, this profession is more support and sustain than 1-hit kills.

Yeah, which is exactly why it looks like it could suck in PvE. There’s no need for a class that’s only good for support in this game mode.

What sort of damage output does revenant offer on a full DPS build though, and how does it compare to the other classes?

Smooth Penguin.5294:

What I’m saying is that you need to learn and understand how to use the traits. GW2 is a game with dynamic fight mechanics. The traits you select assist your game play. If you feel the traits are weak before even trying to learn to use them, then it’s quite possible the Revenant doesn’t fit your Zerker play style. From what I’m seeing, this profession is more support and sustain than 1-hit kills.

You basically just explained exactly why the Revenant’s traits are problematic. Well… thanks I guess? :/

Smooth Penguin.5294:

I think it’s a L2P issue. Revenants have a specific role in combat, and it’s up to the player to utilize the mechanics for maximum effectiveness.

Yeah that’s not it at all. These traits are down right awful. I see use in PvP but for PvE this class is going to be absolutely terrible with this current iteration.

We’re supposed to be testing the existing functionalities of the Rev in the base game. Those functionalities are “tanky” (Jarlis), “condi” (Mallyx), and “heally support” (Ventari). We do not have the dps line as yet, so yeah… your dmg output is going to suck this time around.

Yes, these types of “roles” do not necessarily fair well in the current pve environment because (let’s face it) the current mob ai is…well, sucky. Doesn’t mean its not ‘doable’ for testing, just not ideal imo.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

We’re supposed to be testing the existing functionalities of the Rev in the base game. Those functionalities are “tanky” (Jarlis), “condi” (Mallyx), and “heally support” (Ventari). We do not have the dps line as yet, so yeah… your dmg output is going to suck this time around.

Yes, these types of “roles” do not necessarily fair well in the current pve environment because (let’s face it) the current mob ai is…well, sucky. Doesn’t mean its not ‘doable’ for testing, just not ideal imo.

Ok sure but we have 4 trait lines and none of them are suited to DPS.

Edit: and yes I know more on coming but were going to have to pick at least 1 of these.

Mallyx with mace + axe and all the dpsing traits you can find does good condi damage in pve.

All the weapons and traits for power damage builds aren’t in this version of the Rev.

Don’t forget that this is a beta test, not the final release, and they said in the announcement that it’s a genuine test and they will be listening to our feedback.

If you think the traits are bad make some notes on why you think they’re bad – are there specific traits you don’t like, or is it a general issue with all of them? What do you feel is lacking, or overdone? If you could what would you change?

Then post it on the forum so Anet can see it and factor it into their feedback.

Next time there’s a beta you might find some of your issues have been fixed, just like they made a bunch of changes to Stronghold based on feedback from last time that was available.

Dead.5829:

Mallyx with mace + axe and all the dpsing traits you can find does good condi damage in pve.

All the weapons and traits for power damage builds aren’t in this version of the Rev.

Exactly this. Been running with a condi build using a mix of rampager/carrion gear and it’s working rather well. Wish I could test it with sin gear but sadly we don’t get that option.

Bandit.8279:

Dead.5829:

Mallyx with mace + axe and all the dpsing traits you can find does good condi damage in pve.

All the weapons and traits for power damage builds aren’t in this version of the Rev.

Exactly this. Been running with a condi build using a mix of rampager/carrion gear and it’s working rather well. Wish I could test it with sin gear but sadly we don’t get that option.

You might consider it good but one look at what condi builds can do on other classes and this falls far short of it.

Minigrump.4961:

the dps sucks on revenant. going as offensively as physically possible at this point in time, i swear it felt like i was doing negative damage. i want a dps option for traits, and a dps legend to try out, or at least a decent condi set up. if i wanted to play a healer i would go to a different game.

Or you could play a different class? Not everyone will like the playstyle of the Revenant or have an affinity for making it most useful.

If all you want is DPS why not just play the classes that are already doing a great job of it. The Revenant won’t be everyone’s favorite or main class. There are 8 classes already and I don’t like playing every single one of them. Like seriously. Why does every class need to be a pure DPS build for you? Just don’t play the ones that aren’t set up for that. Nothing about Revenant screams high DPS. You shouldn’t be surprised by your experience.

Also you’re playing with Celestial armor and weapons if you’re going with the armor it starts you with. That’s gonna bring down your damage as well.

I understand we haven’t seen all of the Revenants channels. But thus far, the traits are terrible with synergy aside from a supportive role. I like the Revenant skills and the idea behind it, but the traits need serious rework. Unless they are making Revenant the “healing/support” class (which goes against their design philosophy) we need more DPS trait options.

Please don’t bother posting “its in beta what do you expect”, because we are the ones giving beta feedback. AKA doing what we are supposed to do in a beta.

Mo Mo.1947:

Minigrump.4961:

the dps sucks on revenant. going as offensively as physically possible at this point in time, i swear it felt like i was doing negative damage. i want a dps option for traits, and a dps legend to try out, or at least a decent condi set up. if i wanted to play a healer i would go to a different game.

Or you could play a different class? Not everyone will like the playstyle of the Revenant or have an affinity for making it most useful.

If all you want is DPS why not just play the classes that are already doing a great job of it. The Revenant won’t be everyone’s favorite or main class. There are 8 classes already and I don’t like playing every single one of them. Like seriously. Why does every class need to be a pure DPS build for you? Just don’t play the ones that aren’t set up for that. Nothing about Revenant screams DPS. You shouldn’t be surprised by your experience.

Also you’re playing with Celestial armor and weapons if you’re going with the armor it starts you with. That’s gonna bring down your damage as well.

Because every class is suppose to fit the role of DPS, support, control? Like the basic tenants of the game anet sold. No one’s asking for it to only do DPS. Why limit a class to just 1-2 things. Why not open it up to fit people’s playstyles, whatever they may be?

Sorin.4310:

Bandit.8279:

Dead.5829:

Mallyx with mace + axe and all the dpsing traits you can find does good condi damage in pve.

All the weapons and traits for power damage builds aren’t in this version of the Rev.

Exactly this. Been running with a condi build using a mix of rampager/carrion gear and it’s working rather well. Wish I could test it with sin gear but sadly we don’t get that option.

You might consider it good but one look at what condi builds can do on other classes and this falls far short of it.

Crit chance at 100%, condi dmg at around 2k with sigil and might stacking and the ability to spam torment and might makes it pretty decent. Demonic legendary synergies well with it and I can swap legendary stance to dwarf for more support utilities.

All that on an unfinished profession makes it look promising for a condi build imho.

Purple Miku.7032:

There were so few of decent traits that this class is really looking like it’s going to be weaker than necro, which says a lot.

Yes, for example that people still cry on and on about Necros in PvE despite them being far from bad nowadays.

Carighan.6758:

Purple Miku.7032:

There were so few of decent traits that this class is really looking like it’s going to be weaker than necro, which says a lot.

Yes, for example that people still cry on and on about Necros in PvE despite them being far from bad nowadays.

Compared to other classes, they’re very bad in PvE. Perhaps you just haven’t really seen the classes all at their full potential yet?

Necro has nothing to bring to groups. Absolutely anything they can do, others can do better… unless we’re talking about fearing trash mobs away.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

I think it’s a L2P issue

… he says to Purple Miku. Dude, that takes some serious guts. (or ignorance)

anabasis.7346:

Purple Miku.7032:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

What I’m saying is that you need to learn and understand how to use the traits. GW2 is a game with dynamic fight mechanics. The traits you select assist your game play. If you feel the traits are weak before even trying to learn to use them, then it’s quite possible the Revenant doesn’t fit your Zerker play style. From what I’m seeing, this profession is more support and sustain than 1-hit kills.

You basically just explained exactly why the Revenant’s traits are problematic. Well… thanks I guess? :/

I was thinking the same lol. He basically proved your point while thinking he was defending these dull traits in PvE. Hilarious!

It’s not fair to make fun of Purple Miku’s lack of diversity. Just because he wants to play only Zerker builds, doesn’t mean he can’t play as a Revanant. Once he learns to trait properly, and equip the appropriate armor specs and runes, he’ll be able to do damage, albeit no 1-shot kill.

Remember, GW2 combat is not based on DPS hack and slash mechanics. If you go full Glass Cannon, you will be punished by PvE monsters who are anti-DPS. A boss that can absorb 80% of physical type attacks will wreck you.

The best players adapt to situations on various characters. That’s why I have one of each profession.

Edit – To add, one should never rely on 1-shot type builds. All or nothing has the biggest risks.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

anabasis.7346:

Purple Miku.7032:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

What I’m saying is that you need to learn and understand how to use the traits. GW2 is a game with dynamic fight mechanics. The traits you select assist your game play. If you feel the traits are weak before even trying to learn to use them, then it’s quite possible the Revenant doesn’t fit your Zerker play style. From what I’m seeing, this profession is more support and sustain than 1-hit kills.

You basically just explained exactly why the Revenant’s traits are problematic. Well… thanks I guess? :/

I was thinking the same lol. He basically proved your point while thinking he was defending these dull traits in PvE. Hilarious!

It’s not fair to make fun of Purple Miku’s lack of diversity. Just because he wants to play only Zerker builds, doesn’t mean he can’t play as a Revanant. Once he learns to trait properly, and equip the appropriate armor specs and runes, he’ll be able to do damage, albeit no 1-shot kill.

Remember, GW2 combat is not based on DPS hack and slash mechanics. If you go full Glass Cannon, you will be punished by PvE monsters who are anti-DPS. A boss that can absorb 80% of physical type attacks will wreck you.

The best players adapt to situations on various characters. That’s why I have one of each profession.

Edit – To add, one should never rely on 1-shot type builds. All or nothing has the biggest risks.

…

You don’t get it, but I still don’t understand how you’re so confused.

I’m not complaining about being unable to trait and equip gear properly, I’m complaining about all of the options being way worse by comparison than what other classes have.

Seriously, what part of it is confusing you? I’m not sure if I can simplify this any further.

Purple Miku.7032:

…

You don’t get it, but I still don’t understand how you’re so confused.

I’m not complaining about being unable to trait and equip gear properly, I’m complaining about all of the options being way worse by comparison than what other classes have.

Seriously, what part of it is confusing you? I’m not sure if I can simplify this any further.

Anet is in the Beta stages, and are making adjustments as we go. We’re still a month or two before HoT release, and I have full confidence in Colin’s ability to give us the best game possible.

I admit there can be a few tweaks here and there. But overall, it’s a learning experience. Revenant is new, so let the players test out builds before determining the new meta is useless. To me, it doesn’t make sense to copy and paste mechanics from existing professions. Anet wanted to think outside the box, and give us a new type of profession to mix up combat.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

anabasis.7346:

Purple Miku.7032:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

What I’m saying is that you need to learn and understand how to use the traits. GW2 is a game with dynamic fight mechanics. The traits you select assist your game play. If you feel the traits are weak before even trying to learn to use them, then it’s quite possible the Revenant doesn’t fit your Zerker play style. From what I’m seeing, this profession is more support and sustain than 1-hit kills.

You basically just explained exactly why the Revenant’s traits are problematic. Well… thanks I guess? :/

I was thinking the same lol. He basically proved your point while thinking he was defending these dull traits in PvE. Hilarious!

It’s not fair to make fun of Purple Miku’s lack of diversity. Just because he wants to play only Zerker builds, doesn’t mean he can’t play as a Revanant. Once he learns to trait properly, and equip the appropriate armor specs and runes, he’ll be able to do damage, albeit no 1-shot kill.

Remember, GW2 combat is not based on DPS hack and slash mechanics. If you go full Glass Cannon, you will be punished by PvE monsters who are anti-DPS. A boss that can absorb 80% of physical type attacks will wreck you.

The best players adapt to situations on various characters. That’s why I have one of each profession.

Show me a vid of how long it takes to you to bring down the Indestructible Golem, i’m dying to see this viable damage build compared to other classes in the game.

Yes, you are allowed to play the game how you want. Meaning you don’t have to do damage, but no one is going to want you in the party in PvE. If Anet wants Rev to be a viable PvE class (that is effective), then they need to rework the traits so that Rev can be viable in various roles.

Sure mixes it up when it has nothing to offer.

My necro won’t be the most hated in PvE \o/

Seriously though, Anet needs to watch the whole theme over usefulness thing. We all like theme but too much theme and you get necro.

Judging by traits like Disarming Riposte which is 1 blind every 20 seconds I think it’s safe to say a lot of the traits are like in alpha and hopefully will be fixed to be more useful.

Purple Miku.7032:

Carighan.6758:

Purple Miku.7032:

There were so few of decent traits that this class is really looking like it’s going to be weaker than necro, which says a lot.

Yes, for example that people still cry on and on about Necros in PvE despite them being far from bad nowadays.

Compared to other classes, they’re very bad in PvE. Perhaps you just haven’t really seen the classes all at their full potential yet?

Necro has nothing to bring to groups. Absolutely anything they can do, others can do better… unless we’re talking about fearing trash mobs away.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vampiric_Presence

It’s like pre-nerf lifesteal food.

Kysin.6349:

Show me a vid of how long it takes to you to bring down the Indestructible Golem, i’m dying to see this viable damage build compared to other classes in the game.

Yes, you are allowed to play the game how you want. Meaning you don’t have to do damage, but no one is going to want you in the party in PvE. If Anet wants Rev to be a viable PvE class (that is effective), then they need to rework the traits so that Rev can be viable in various roles.

I think the main problem is that a majority of the player base just wants pure DPS characters. Anet knows this is a problem, and has been introducing more and more anti-DPS enemies.

With Revenants, you have some good Support play. We’re not talking old school Trinity. Support players can be effective in group combat, as well as provide some damage output.

L Step.8659:

My necro won’t be the most hated in PvE \o/

/thread

traits only contribute to part of the damage but how are weapon skillsets? Is mace axe any good? I expect staff to suck cause its a support weapon and hammer unless its like ele’s staff wont fare well either being a ranged weapon.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Kysin.6349:

Show me a vid of how long it takes to you to bring down the Indestructible Golem, i’m dying to see this viable damage build compared to other classes in the game.

Yes, you are allowed to play the game how you want. Meaning you don’t have to do damage, but no one is going to want you in the party in PvE. If Anet wants Rev to be a viable PvE class (that is effective), then they need to rework the traits so that Rev can be viable in various roles.

I think the main problem is that a majority of the player base just wants pure DPS characters. Anet knows this is a problem, and has been introducing more and more anti-DPS enemies.

With Revenants, you have some good Support play. We’re not talking old school Trinity. Support players can be effective in group combat, as well as provide some damage output.

You are completely missing the point! All these classes that do great DPS, always provide support with it (albeit maybe not in direct healing). That is the way Anet designed this game. I want a Rev to be a class that can do all the things every other class can do (viably), it is that simple. And yes, that means DPS, condi, and support.

We are on the forums because we care about the class, and Anet has told us they want feedback. We are giving it to them… White knighting does not help Anet develop a better game, constructive feedback does.

I’d like to contribute.

Rev (with Soldier gear and food buffs) has less damage and less survivability than my staff Ele (Soldier/Cleric) with no food, not to mention my Ele gives incredible support to allies.

Ech. :s

The traits do look kinda bad, in their current state…
The support line gives out said support in the form of pure healing, very limited condi cleanse and abysmal boon support (some regen and 1s swiftness?). Many traits are focused on outgoing heal but are scattered all over the place. They do have synergy with ventari, but the legend itself is limited and uninspired in its supportive design. Heal, heal more heal, fun.
No traits in the salvation line alter skills, favour creative gameplay or building since they’re all focused on stat manipulation and added healing (more healing! with nothing else!), if you’re a bit slow, I’m talking about poignant, intense and build-changing traits such as persisting flames, diamond skin, fresh air, many more. No amount of outgoing heal is gonna save you from 20k hits.
Sustain is ok, but there must be more to it.

I won’t comment on dps of power revenants because we don’t have the dps legend or trait line, but I can see that even traits from other lines are lackluster.

Condi could be worse, but it focuses heavily on torment with controlled access to poison and burning. Comparing it to other condi classes, you can see how no solid access to bleeding OR more reliable burn OR immob/cripple/chill can make a difference. Warrs, engis, necros, even rangers – you see that.
You got eyebrow-raising gms (15% trigger chance, hmmm, rng on gm traits, so good) and… well, more boring traits. Some more healing and effects on legend swapping, uuuu, awesome.

Invocation has the only truly interesting trait, roiling mists, which (phiw, you listenin!) opens up a lot of possibility in the form of massive crit increase. that could mean, for example, the chance to get good dps and cap crit chance with a more defensive gear set… a zerk-valkyrie mix, for instance? yeah? Some dire builds, no?
But no, let’s just focus on healing cus we narrow-minded, yush? It’s easier to say “it’s meant to SUPPORT” without considering that, to compete with other classes, the revenant should be able to support AND defend AND cc AND yes, sorry, also dps effectively.
“It’s a supportive class” is no excuse. (Guards are supportive, are they not? they’re also good assassins)
Especially because we have yet to try Shiro (?) out, and you can bet he ain’t gonna be a healer. Sorry again.
That’s how a gm trait should be, I was saying. It should be an opening, it should be an inspiration to try out something new with the class, not some… bah. Something boring. Oh, I swapped legend and got some aoe blind, amazing.
Not that I expect every trait to be a roiling mists, but take a look at ele’s gm traits! Amazing. That’s a class built to be and feel amazing, not “balanced” or “ok”.
If it is or isn’t, that’s another story about balance. It’s in the concept of traits.

Retribution? more % traits, so funny. It does make sense in this case, due to the tanky nature of Jalis, but it still looks boring.
I can see some traits that could be interesting in pvp, despite the class suffering strongly from lack of stun breakers – but I won’t comment on pvp.
For Pve? Lame. Really lame. What idiot on earth would want to taunt an enraged elite mob while being cced?!?!
I see at least 2 traits “when under the effect of retal”, but only one trait that gives retal. Where the hell is retal? I see 2 on 6th jalis, plus 2 if with trait, a grand total of 4 seconds of retal.
Wtf?
I could go on for at least 2 more walls of text.

I don’t understand how you can’t see it’s very much unfinished and is gonna need attention and care to be able to compete in support AND cc AND, sorry for being offensive, dps.
That’s all good, though, we’re in beta and we’re here for this. I’d say more alpha but—-/cough cough — don’t mind me.

More things:
- energy management;
- clunky animations (hammer 5, mace 2 3, staff aa, staff 2, staff 4, SLOW);
- mobility.

Positive things:
- staff 3, I adore it! Everything else is disgustingly clunky;
- blast finishers! cool but clunky
- jalis’ utilities are cool but perhaps a lil too expensive…
- ventari absorption, but you can do little while maintaining it;
- interesting axe pull.

More stuff I’ll think about later.

Hmm, the rev pretty much has 2 healing-traitlines. I bet he’s an even better healer than guardian or elementalist.

Still, I’ve tried to create a condi-build and failed miserably because not even the condi-line supports conditions really good. I didn’t try a direct-dmg build because that’s what we need the missing traitline for.

Just finished a CoF run (on my PS Warrior), with two Revenants in the PUG. Conclusion… it’s tanky. The players seemed to know what they were doing, but the class wasn’t doing anything very impactful that I could see. Tried it in the last beta, too, and nothing about it makes me want to switch from my Warrior.

Also, telling Miku to L2P is hilarious.

• Salvation looks like a WoW trait line for a healer.
• Retribution looks like a WoW tanking trait line with a few odds and sods thrown in.
• Corruption looks like it’s meant for the Malyx legend, and like it’s intended to be for a condition and crit user (thus Rampager, Rabid or Sinister) and some condi counter.
• Invocation looks like it’s supposed to be the catch-all line that could complement the other three. How it would complement the unknown legends is anyone’s guess.

My guess is that the “philosophy” in use is to steer players into picking the trait lines for their two slotted legends, plus Invocation. Like or or hate it, this is very different from the way traits work on other professions.

Salvation and Retribution make it look like the option to play a dedicated tank or healer is on offer. Whether the game will reward such in group events or instances remains to be seen. Whether the class will offer a high direct damage option also remains to be seen. At the moment, such an option seems to be absent.

Current Revenant skills, weaponskills and traits are all bad. All of them.
Lacks a decent healing skill, any useful utility skills (except maybe 2 of them) and any usable elite skill. Plus all the weapons have flaws (except mace+axe, that is not that great however).

About traits, I agree with the complains. Many of that stuff should be merged to give room to actually useful stuff. Compare Revenant traits with Elementalist ones.

It’s Tanky, but not as much as a Zerk Necromancer, or a Knight Guardian.

Carighan.6758:

Purple Miku.7032:

There were so few of decent traits that this class is really looking like it’s going to be weaker than necro, which says a lot.

Yes, for example that people still cry on and on about Necros in PvE despite them being far from bad nowadays.

I find Malik and his utilities far better than necros and his half the revenant if equiped.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

I think it’s a L2P issue. Revenants have a specific role in combat, and it’s up to the player to utilize the mechanics for maximum effectiveness.

You must be a master of revenant. Teach me your ways.

I’m glad I’m not alone in thinking that revenant traits are complete garbage

runeblade.7514:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

I think it’s a L2P issue. Revenants have a specific role in combat, and it’s up to the player to utilize the mechanics for maximum effectiveness.

You must be a master of revenant. Teach me your ways.

I think if you gear towards Condi, you can find yourself with good sustained damage. With Anet’s Confi buff recently, it has the potential to be seriously overpowered.

Tarasicodissa.7084:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

I think it’s a L2P issue

… he says to Purple Miku. Dude, that takes some serious guts. (or ignorance)

Why?