Why do bosses have so much health?
“Why do bosses have so much health?”
Why does your team have so low DPS?
Tha CoE Azura Boss before last is not that hard !
all you have to do is watch for the start of the animation and dodge at the appropriate time, I mean come on you learned about a similar tactic in Ascalon Catacombs Explore mode fighting Lieutenant Kohler. It just so happens that this Azura Boss is a bit less forgiving at least in AC if you missed a dodge you might still live.
Tha CoE Azura Boss before last is not that hard !
all you have to do is watch for the start of the animation and dodge at the appropriate time, I mean come on you learned about a similar tactic in Ascalon Catacombs Explore mode fighting Lieutenant Kohler. It just so happens that this Azura Boss is a bit less forgiving at least in AC if you missed a dodge you might still live.
You obviously didn’t read a single thing I said. I never said it was hard. It was beyond easy, and boring, and still manages to be annoying with one shot mechanics.
I could half afk and still beat that fight with a pug.
and still the argument applies. Yes, you CAN play the game in any way you want to, you just cannot expect to win if you play it wrong. You can tell your boss how much he sucks, you can show up 2 hours late to work, but we live in a universe of consequences. Sure, play the game like another game you know, but to believe you are entitled to succeed regardless of the way you play is outright ridiculous.
Without spoiling it to much but boss fights are some of the most disappointing I have ever encountered in any MMO. I can’t say I have ever felt so unrewarded in an MMO after defeating a boss as I have done with GW2 bosses, and I don’t mean in a monetary way.
“After several hours I’m still swinging this sword with1 lodestone drop”
and still the argument applies. Yes, you CAN play the game in any way you want to, you just cannot expect to win if you play it wrong. You can tell your boss how much he sucks, you can show up 2 hours late to work, but we live in a universe of consequences. Sure, play the game like another game you know, but to believe you are entitled to succeed regardless of the way you play is outright ridiculous.
Doesnt this go against the design though? Whats the point of having diffrent trait trees and skills if you only need to use the “best” and that is the “proper” way to play?
The thing is, giving a boss more health does not make it harder to defeat. It only makes it take more time. Once you’re skilled enough to handle the mechanics of the fight, it really doesn’t matter if you dodge an attack 15 times or 20 times.
When running with a zerg in Straits the giant has so much HP that after about 3 laps I’ll just auto attack it at max range and take a 5 minute break and usually come back to him with between 33-50%hp.
and still the argument applies. Yes, you CAN play the game in any way you want to, you just cannot expect to win if you play it wrong. You can tell your boss how much he sucks, you can show up 2 hours late to work, but we live in a universe of consequences. Sure, play the game like another game you know, but to believe you are entitled to succeed regardless of the way you play is outright ridiculous.
Doesnt this go against the design though? Whats the point of having diffrent trait trees and skills if you only need to use the “best” and that is the “proper” way to play?
in any game, there are ways to play it “good” – in the sense of reaching your set goals better – or worse. How can you have a system that rewards any behaviour equally? If you are looking for this kind of environment, a computer game simply isn´t the place to be as they always confront you with artificial challenges you have to overcome by adopting artificial sets of behaviour, some more succesfully than others. If you want a I can do REALLY anything enviroment you need to log on to stuff like Second Life.
PS: but to comment on topic: Yes, the bosses could really have some hp removed, especially in dungeons. There is not much resource management involved in GW2 combat. So if you have “proven” you understand how a boss works and demonstrated the necessary skills to damage him without being killed, it doesn´t really matter whether the fight takes 5 minutes or 20 and I´d rather go with 5.
and still the argument applies. Yes, you CAN play the game in any way you want to, you just cannot expect to win if you play it wrong. You can tell your boss how much he sucks, you can show up 2 hours late to work, but we live in a universe of consequences. Sure, play the game like another game you know, but to believe you are entitled to succeed regardless of the way you play is outright ridiculous.
Doesnt this go against the design though? Whats the point of having diffrent trait trees and skills if you only need to use the “best” and that is the “proper” way to play?
in any game, there are ways to play it “good” – in the sense of reaching your set goals better – or worse. How can you have a system that rewards any behaviour equally? If you are looking for this kind of environment, a computer game simply isn´t the place to be as they always confront you with artificial challenges you have to overcome by adopting artificial sets of behaviour, some more succesfully than others. If you want a I can do REALLY anything enviroment you need to log on to stuff like Second Life.
Eh, I dont mean that exactly, I know that there will always be “better” builds, but if everyone is running the same build, then you know something is wrong. I personally think there is plenty of options for dungeons for most classes, but its still silly to blame it on “playing the class right” since the classes all have several diffrent ways to play.
Plus, its really about team play, if everyone runs a blanaced build, you will have a much easier time, but if you are the only one running support, you will fail, cause everyone else isnt supporting you, and following up on your support since they are all class cannons or something silly, The holy trinity is gone imo, but at the same time still there. You still need a dps, a few “Supports” and “Tanks” are pretty much gone. But some classes support is either UP, or bugged, etc. So the game will be much more friendly when certain trait lines are actually buffed up to be able to compete in said role :P
Its unfortunate. While GW2 has been praised alot about how it has ‘changed’ MMOs and improved so many aspects of MMOs……..in the area of encounter/mob/boss design they have failed and taken the genre many steps back. Remove the Holy Trinity yet make everything nothing more than a tank -n- spank. Just seems at odds.
The 3 Dragon events have been disappointing to say the least. To even categorize them as ‘dynamic’ events is insulting since they are in no way dynamic.
Lol @ whoever was complaining about a 20 minute fight but having people getting “randomly” one shot. You know what? It isn’t random. Learn the mechanic, stop dying, you stop spending all that time picking up your downed teammates. Turns your 20 minute encounter into a 10-15 minute encounter tops.
Again, seriously a big L2P issue going on in this thread.
It’s not so much the massive HP pools that irk me about the mobs in Dungeons.
It’s this:
- Level 80 Warrior
- Vigil Armor (Power, Toughness, Vitality)
- Superior Rune of Divinity x6
- 10/0/30/30/0 Spec (Great Fortitude in Strength)
- Sword & Board for Blocking
That can still be 1 shot by bosses, with no warning that a 1 shot attack is coming.
Lol @ whoever was complaining about a 20 minute fight but having people getting “randomly” one shot. You know what? It isn’t random. Learn the mechanic, stop dying, you stop spending all that time picking up your downed teammates. Turns your 20 minute encounter into a 10-15 minute encounter tops.
Again, seriously a big L2P issue going on in this thread.
And you need to quit stroking your ego in the thread. You’ve already made it clear that you don’t agree with the topic, move on.
Yolaine / Orindine / Maliasera
~ Among the Ashes [Dust] ~
(edited by Braxxis.7062)
Lol @ whoever was complaining about a 20 minute fight but having people getting “randomly” one shot. You know what? It isn’t random. Learn the mechanic, stop dying, you stop spending all that time picking up your downed teammates. Turns your 20 minute encounter into a 10-15 minute encounter tops.
Again, seriously a big L2P issue going on in this thread.
Agreed. I keep seeing people say they should be able to play however they want to. I don’t get that statement. Should I be able to pick up a soccer ball and throw it for a touchdown while running the bases, because that’s how I want to play golf?
@ Braxxis:
You are just proving my point even further. There are certain mechanics in this game that will one shot you no matter how geared you are. They exist in every MMO out there. They are not random. There is plenty of warning. Some bosses glow and some have timers on said abilities. Some have animations to look for, some will perform a 1 shot if a person is standing in the wrong place, or perhaps if they are out of melee range when they should be in it, or standing at range when they should be standing in melee.
No ego stroking going on here at all. I am trying to explain that it is really just a matter of people not understanding how to play effectively and efficiently yet. Some people get it and some people haven’t yet, and sadly, some people never will. That is the nature of a game that has such a vast player base.
Edit: I “lol’d” because I have been playing MMOs for around 8 years on and off and it just amazes me what some people think is passable for “skill” these days. When people think that getting downed by mechanics that can be avoided is ok because their teammates can just pick them back up, it makes me cringe a little bit. The downed state should be removed from dungeons in my opinion, and I have two reasons for believing this.
1. It hinders people from learning mechanics simply because they don’t need to. In WoW, if you didn’t learn a mechanic, you got punished for it and weren’t able to complete the content. Why bother having a mechanic if it can be entirely ignored through the downed state?
2. Content is trivialized by it. Same reasoning as above. What is the point of designing bosses and encounters with all these mechanics if no one has to really learn them to complete them? There are some examples which aren’t necessarily impacted by this, but most are.
(edited by Animus.6073)
@ Braxxis:
You are just proving my point even further. There are certain mechanics in this game that will one shot you no matter how geared you are. They exist in every MMO out there. They are not random. There is plenty of warning. Some bosses glow and some have timers on said abilities. Some have animations to look for, some will perform a 1 shot if a person is standing in the wrong place, or perhaps if they are out of melee range when they should be in it, or standing at range when they should be standing in melee.
No ego stroking going on here at all. I am trying to explain that it is really just a matter of people not understanding how to play effectively and efficiently yet. Some people get it and some people haven’t yet, and sadly, some people never will. That is the nature of a game that has such a vast player base.
Only one boss ever, in any MMORPG I’ve ever played before GW2 (EQ, EQ2, DDO, Lineage, Lineage 2, WoW, Aeon, FFXI, several F2P models) has ever had a 1 shot mechanic, and that was Vaelestraz back in Vanilla WoW by turning players into living bombs. Every other boss has had mechanics that can kill you very quickly, or result in a 1 shot if you don’t position yourself correctly or get too high a debuff, or can instant kill you as part of a scripted event during the fight. So no, not every mmo has bosses with one shot abilities, heck even in GW2 they aren’t 1 shot “abilities”, they are simply basic attacks that can hit you for your full health regardless of spec and gear.
A perfect example is the first boss in CM Story, the robot. That guy can turn around and hit the warrior I mentioned above, with a basic attack, and instantly down him. That is not an ability, there’s no indication he’s going to randomly turn around and hit him, he just does it. One second the Warrior is at full health, the next he gets smacked by the robot and he’s down.
Another example is the Mouth in Arah Story. Sure you can prevent his ability to suck everyone in easy enough, but going into melee with him is suicide, his auto attack will 1 shot you. It’s stay at range or die. In fact the whole Story run of Arah is stay at range or die on the bosses.
Your whole argument of see the ability coming and dodge it is negated by the fact that their kitten auto attacks are 1 shot abilities. The whole problem is resolved by toning down their auto attack damage. Abilities crushing your face if you don’t avoid them I can see and understand as part of a learning curve, auto attacks doing it also I can’t.
Yolaine / Orindine / Maliasera
~ Among the Ashes [Dust] ~
@ Braxxis:
I think you misunderstood me, but you got the gist of what I was saying. I didn’t literally mean bosses in other MMO’s all have 1-shot mechanics as in “boom! random person dead.” They have mechanics that you need to learn and avoid in order to prevent a death (IE not standing in fire/poison/getting out of melee range/etc…). Some of these abilities have no warning and require you to quickly respond and others you need to take preventative measures to avoid. In either case, they require you to learn the mechanic or you will fail.
In GW2, there are simply no instances of unwarranted “1-shot” mechanics. It is the same as WoW or any other game. If you are in the wrong spot at the wrong time or refuse to play the encounter as you are supposed to, the game will punish you for it. The only problem is that the punishment is just time and embarrassment, since your allies can just pick you back up in almost every case.
If a boss is 1-shotting a melee profession fully decked out in “tank” gear, that means one of a few things is occurring. It could mean that the player was supposed to move away at a certain interval of time. It could mean that the player hit the boss when he was supposed to stop attacking. It could mean that he was supposed to run around to the other side of the boss. The list goes on and on. The game isn’t even 2 months old and I firmly believe people have not learned all of the mechanics well enough to make complaints like yours.
One thing I will grant you is that I disagree with the imbalance between melee and ranged in terms of boss fight viability. Some fights really punish melee, while only a sparse amount give range any real problems. However, punishing melee does not mean constantly downing them. I promise you there are many of ways to avoid these problems you are encountering. Blind, block, aegis, protection, stability (in some cases).
People who play to never get downed have to hit a very high skill cap in some encounters, but completing encounters regardless of downed players requires one of the lowest skill caps I have ever seen in an MMO. It is really perplexing why the downed state exists in dungeons, because I don’t believe for a second that Arena Net said at some point in development, “Let’s make bosses that just turn around and kill people for no reason whatsoever, but it’s no big because the downed state isn’t permanent.” What kind of design philosophy would that be? I could see that working for maybe 1 encounter as a novelty or something, but as an entire dungeon experience, no way.
I can’t say “trust me” as much as I want to here because the game is so young, but I would love to promise you that these complaints will vanish in the coming weeks/months.
Sounds like your DPS sucks.
Are you trying to do the dungeon on-level?
I don’t even remember who this Kudu guy is, and I’ve run a kitten ton of SE. He must be from SE story, which the one time I ran it I recall it being more difficult than the explore paths.
Anyway, the dungeons are tuned for a full group of 80s. That you can enter them sub-80 almost seems cruel.
Some of these abilities have no warning and require you to quickly respond
Do I even need to point out what’s wrong with this sentence?
If a one-shot kill ability has no warning you CAN’T respond.
Some of these abilities have no warning and require you to quickly respond
Do I even need to point out what’s wrong with this sentence?
If a one-shot kill ability has no warning you CAN’T respond.
If you insist on criticism, at least make sure you are correct before you reveal to your audience that you, in fact, have no idea what you are talking about.
I said some abilities do not give you any warning but require you to quickly respond to a stimulus in order to not die or be “1-shot” by it. These might be in the form of debuffs that require you to act quickly to cleanse yourself (or others who have been inflicted) or a bomb on the floor, or something else along those lines. The boss does not warn you that he has placed a bomb under your feet, but if you do not move away from it, it will one shot you.
That is how some other MMO’s work, but that isn’t really the way it works in GW2. Some “1-shot” mechanics are much more subtle than that and some are much more obvious. When the Howling King is about to screech, you see it coming. When the Golem boss mentioned earlier turns around and swings, you may not see that coming, but that is only because you either don’t know the mechanic well enough to avoid it or you are simply not supposed to be in melee range at that time.
It is entirely possible to complete dungeons without getting 1-shot, I do it all the time. I see others doing it all the time. It really isn’t difficult once you learn how to handle an encounter.
Some of these abilities have no warning and require you to quickly respond
Do I even need to point out what’s wrong with this sentence?
If a one-shot kill ability has no warning you CAN’T respond.
The only genuine 1-shot ability I’ve come across has a clearly telegraphed warning.
I’m enjoying the fact that on my warrior, I can often range tank as easily as I can facetank.
It’s also nice to see that the trinity is still effective, even if most PUGs ignore it because it’s not a mandatory requirement.
Other than those blossoms in TA, I have little to complain about regarding dungeons.
because the gameplay is not that precise.
being messy, putting too much emphasis on skill would be dangerous.
it is better that the difficulty is “managing your ressources over time” instead of tactical responsiveness and strategy/tactic, that would work better on a cleaner gameplay.
spam right!
thats how you win it!
O really want to know how the Priest of Balthazar telegraphs his instant kill attack (because thanks to ANets awesome lag reducing mechanicy I don’t seven see his character model).
The problem is that its not that bosses have special instant kill abilities which are telegraphed (or rather they have them in addition), but that their normal, non telegraphed attacks deal so much damage to instantly kill most characters (I am not talking about glass cannons but characters who simply do not spend every available point in defense).
And sadly the boss design is simply boring. Most of the time ANet simply took a normal mob, multiply HP and damage by 10 and calls it a boss. Fighting them is boring and a tank&spank. Only that without the “holy trinity” the tank is whoever the strange mob AI focuses on. And to tank a mob means running around in circles to not get hit while everyone else takes free shots at the enemy.
Some of these abilities have no warning and require you to quickly respond
Do I even need to point out what’s wrong with this sentence?
If a one-shot kill ability has no warning you CAN’T respond.
If you insist on criticism, at least make sure you are correct before you reveal to your audience that you, in fact, have no idea what you are talking about.
I said some abilities do not give you any warning but require you to quickly respond to a stimulus in order to not die or be “1-shot” by it. These might be in the form of debuffs that require you to act quickly to cleanse yourself (or others who have been inflicted) or a bomb on the floor, or something else along those lines. The boss does not warn you that he has placed a bomb under your feet, but if you do not move away from it, it will one shot you.
That is how some other MMO’s work, but that isn’t really the way it works in GW2. Some “1-shot” mechanics are much more subtle than that and some are much more obvious. When the Howling King is about to screech, you see it coming. When the Golem boss mentioned earlier turns around and swings, you may not see that coming, but that is only because you either don’t know the mechanic well enough to avoid it or you are simply not supposed to be in melee range at that time.
It is entirely possible to complete dungeons without getting 1-shot, I do it all the time. I see others doing it all the time. It really isn’t difficult once you learn how to handle an encounter.
What you’re saying is it’s all just a matter of dumb luck. Not skill.
If there’s nothing to suggest you shouldn’t be within melee range of an enemy at a certain time then the only solution is to NEVER be within melee range of them.
Do you not see the obvious problem with this?
Some of these abilities have no warning and require you to quickly respond
Do I even need to point out what’s wrong with this sentence?
If a one-shot kill ability has no warning you CAN’T respond.
If you insist on criticism, at least make sure you are correct before you reveal to your audience that you, in fact, have no idea what you are talking about.
I said some abilities do not give you any warning but require you to quickly respond to a stimulus in order to not die or be “1-shot” by it. These might be in the form of debuffs that require you to act quickly to cleanse yourself (or others who have been inflicted) or a bomb on the floor, or something else along those lines. The boss does not warn you that he has placed a bomb under your feet, but if you do not move away from it, it will one shot you.
That is how some other MMO’s work, but that isn’t really the way it works in GW2. Some “1-shot” mechanics are much more subtle than that and some are much more obvious. When the Howling King is about to screech, you see it coming. When the Golem boss mentioned earlier turns around and swings, you may not see that coming, but that is only because you either don’t know the mechanic well enough to avoid it or you are simply not supposed to be in melee range at that time.
It is entirely possible to complete dungeons without getting 1-shot, I do it all the time. I see others doing it all the time. It really isn’t difficult once you learn how to handle an encounter.
What you’re saying is it’s all just a matter of dumb luck. Not skill.
If there’s nothing to suggest you shouldn’t be within melee range of an enemy at a certain time then the only solution is to NEVER be within melee range of them.
Do you not see the obvious problem with this?
Not suggesting that at all. I am suggesting that people have not learned when to be where yet because Arena Net doesn’t make it blatantly obvious like many other MMOs do. Because this game is so new, you don’t have tons of people shouting at you to get out of melee range or get into it at certain times.
Some mechanics are more easily telegraphed than others, but I’m willing to bet that most people haven’t learned the more complicated ones yet. Just because a boss hasn’t put a giant green cloud of death on your character doesn’t mean that you are standing in a safe spot for instance. We have been trained by other MMOs to only associate certain animations or locations as dangerous, when that simply is not holding true for GW2.
For example, that Golem boss that was referenced, maybe he has a mechanic that makes him “1-shot” a melee opponent that stands in range for more than a certain amount of time, or hits him too much before his “aggro table” chooses another priority. Like I said, we simply have not tested it for long enough to make these sorts of conjectures.
@ the person referencing the Priest of Balthazar, I believe that is a world boss, and not a dungeon boss, correct? If so, then that doesn’t really fit into the scope of what we are talking about. I don’t doubt for a second that he is one shotting people left and right without telegraphing it, as that seems to be the norm for big world DE bosses, but I can’t say for sure because I haven’t done that event myself. Also note that I don’t necessarily think that is good game design if that is really how it works.
O really want to know how the Priest of Balthazar telegraphs his instant kill attack (because thanks to ANets awesome lag reducing mechanicy I don’t seven see his character model).
The problem is that its not that bosses have special instant kill abilities which are telegraphed (or rather they have them in addition), but that their normal, non telegraphed attacks deal so much damage to instantly kill most characters (I am not talking about glass cannons but characters who simply do not spend every available point in defense).
And sadly the boss design is simply boring. Most of the time ANet simply took a normal mob, multiply HP and damage by 10 and calls it a boss. Fighting them is boring and a tank&spank. Only that without the “holy trinity” the tank is whoever the strange mob AI focuses on. And to tank a mob means running around in circles to not get hit while everyone else takes free shots at the enemy.
thats superbly well said.
especially the last paragraph.
there is no tank in gw2, there are “baits”.
And sadly the boss design is simply boring. Most of the time ANet simply took a normal mob, multiply HP and damage by 10 and calls it a boss. Fighting them is boring and a tank&spank. Only that without the “holy trinity” the tank is whoever the strange mob AI focuses on. And to tank a mob means running around in circles to not get hit while everyone else takes free shots at the enemy.
This is actually not true at all. The reason it feels like bosses are just overtuned regular mobs is because of the downed state. No one bothers to learn the mechanics because they aren’t necessary to master in order to beat bosses. If the mechanic beats you, your allies just pick you back up and you are able to get downed again and again until you finally hit the penalty limit at like 3-4 downs.
There are almost no bosses, if any, in this game that do not have unique mechanics. Most people ignore them, and that is the real problem, not the bosses themselves. I like Lieutenant Kholer for example. Look at the encounter from a non zerg fest perspective, the way dungeons should be handled:
He has two adds which need to be killed first. During this time you must avoid his AoE Scorpion Wire which, if you don’t, results in a almost sure downed state. He also has a dodge roll which is followed up with a strike that inflicts a poison condition. He rolls behind you and I’m pretty sure strikes for more damage if he lands the back stab. This is all in addition to his standard melee attacks which hit my very tanky Guardian for roughly 1.5k-2k every 2-3 seconds or so.
His damage is respectable but not ridiculous. He probably 2 or 3 shots some of the squishier classes if he gets a chance, but unless you are literally standing in his melee it is very hard for him to kill you. If you dodge the Scorpion Wire and you dodge the poison strike, you are forced to take some of his actual melee hits, which will eventually down you if you (aren’t a BA like myself) if you don’t back off and heal and let others take some hits.
The entire two previous paragraphs can be ignored due to the downed state. Those are all mechanics which every person who fights him should know, and should prepare for. I have yet to run a group through AC where nobody goes down at least once on that fight. Not one single group. However, I have also never had a group fail on AC either. That is a serious problem. If you don’t need to learn to succeed, you will never learn.
In essence, this is why so many people, excuse me for being blunt, suck so badly at dungeons. It really is a problem that needs to be further addressed.
i suck at dungeon because i cant see anything; camera is going crazy ad fireworks are blinding me.
and yeah, knowing the mechanic helps. but a lot of the time you wont be able to see it.
mostly true on smaller enemies.
The entire two previous paragraphs can be ignored due to the downed state. Those are all mechanics which every person who fights him should know, and should prepare for. I have yet to run a group through AC where nobody goes down at least once on that fight. Not one single group. However, I have also never had a group fail on AC either. That is a serious problem. If you don’t need to learn to succeed, you will never learn.
In essence, this is why so many people, excuse me for being blunt, suck so badly at dungeons. It really is a problem that needs to be further addressed.
No, the problem is not that people don’t care and it’s not the downed state either (if anything, the respawn -> run back mechanic letting you zerg it is more to blame then downed state).
The problem is at any given time, from my perspective, the boss is covered by some combination of explosions, turrets, poison gas clouds, flying glowing weapons, 12 foot tall charr warriors, pet dinosaurs, fireballs, meteors, zombies, or people spinning in circles throwing flaming crap everywhere.
Meanwhile my attention is focused not only on the boss but on trying to revive any downed members, trying to aim my ground target stuff, trying to maneuver into position to use my short range AoE support skills (while everyone else is running around like fools away from me), or just plain running away from some add because even the trash mobs kill you in 2 – 3 hits.
Does the boss telegraph his scorpion wire move? probably, but I honestly don’t know because I can never see him clearly through all the spam, and even if he does I can’t spend 100% of the time looking at him alone because I need to pay attention to other stuff too.
(of course the real answer is nobody actually kills that boss anyway because he’s easily skippable and only drops garbage)
I agree with others that in a lot of cases the bosses are not very “tactical”, but instead just have their abilities on timers and fire them when not on cooldown. Some of them give enough warning to actually counter their abilities whereas others either have “warnings” that are so subtle they could be easily missed (e.g. a VERY faint thin ring on a textured floor that almost hides it) or there is almost no time at all to react to what the boss is doing.
Yes, there might be a degree of “L2P” involved, but how is anyone supposed to “learn to play” a fight if the indicators and warnings are so easily missed and the fights are so chaotic as a result? I believe that IF those issues where addressed, then there may be less issues with Boss fights in general.
Anet have a measure of responsibility in this situation. So, I propose:
1) The AOE indicators (the AOE rings that you see on the floor) that the bosses put down should be more clearly identifiable. In my opinion, the rings should be thicker, brighter in colour, stand out better against the textures and colours on the floor, and perhaps maybe even look different to the AOE rings put down by players (thus making them more distinguishable).
2) The indicators and warnings that bosses give out prior to some of their abilities should be a little less subtle. For example, they shouldn’t just give a slight “twitch” which a player could only see if they happen to be staring at the boss, but perhaps have less subtle VISUAL indicators AS WELL as perhaps audible (and appropriate) warnings / indicators too.
Blizzard learned that clear audible warnings are a good accompanyment to visual indicators because then players don’t HAVE to be staring at the boss to know that they need to react to what’s coming next. And yet, those fights were still challenging even with such in-game warnings in place (not counting warnings from addons). Such indicators don’t have to be completely inappropriate, they could be lines of dialogue spoken by the boss during the fight (which could possibly add to the “immersion” factor of the encounter too).
3) Design of Bosses should have to rely more on the use of adaptable tactics and less on just slapping more HP and dmg on the mob. Devs should be making more use of the environments. Yes, throwing rocks and stuff is a good step forward, but more could be done. Interactive environments can not only help make encounters more tactical but also possibly add to how “immersed” a player feels.
4) Boss fights should be more “flexible” to different skill / trait / weapon / attunement load-outs.
THEN and only then, can people stand any chance of “Learning to Play”.
(edited by Tarkaroshe.8370)
I’d also love to know if Anet intended for these dungeons to be completable using different skill / ability load-outs. Because from what I’m seeing in these forums, it seems to be that in order to complete these dungeons, the following must hold true:
1) All players in a group must over-equip themselves (i.e. wearing items that are already equal or better in stats than what can be gained from these dungeons).
2) Specific skill/ability/trait/item load-outs must be used.
3) Weapon / attunement switching is required.
And therefore, unless the above is followed religiously, then the chances of success are severely diminished. So it becomes a “do this or don’t bother trying” situation.
Which puts the entire viability of having no true “trinity” under scrutiny, because the flexibility created by having no trinity is possibly resulting in an inflexibility on how content is designed and how players are expected to progress through it.
No, the problem is not that people don’t care and it’s not the downed state either (if anything, the respawn -> run back mechanic letting you zerg it is more to blame then downed state).
The problem is at any given time, from my perspective, the boss is covered by some combination of explosions, turrets, poison gas clouds, flying glowing weapons, 12 foot tall charr warriors, pet dinosaurs, fireballs, meteors, zombies, or people spinning in circles throwing flaming crap everywhere.
Meanwhile my attention is focused not only on the boss but on trying to revive any downed members, trying to aim my ground target stuff, trying to maneuver into position to use my short range AoE support skills (while everyone else is running around like fools away from me), or just plain running away from some add because even the trash mobs kill you in 2 – 3 hits.
Does the boss telegraph his scorpion wire move? probably, but I honestly don’t know because I can never see him clearly through all the spam, and even if he does I can’t spend 100% of the time looking at him alone because I need to pay attention to other stuff too.
(of course the real answer is nobody actually kills that boss anyway because he’s easily skippable and only drops garbage)
I agree. As I mentioned above the entire “warning” system for boss fights needs work (i.e. the visual AND audio warnings used to imply what the boss is about to do next). And ONLY when these things have been addressed can boss fights be shuttered off preventing just a “zerg” tactic being used on them.