Guild Wars 2

Scrambles.2604:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Scrambles.2604:

The way i see it, you are advocating against a tool you don’t plan on using, and since you don’t do a lot of dungeons and tend to play by yourself it is likely not to effect you.

No offense, but this reminds me of people who are against gay-marriage because they think it will ruin the sanctity of hetero marriages, when it reality it wont effect them at all.

Whether I personally use it or not, I do still have the right to express my opinion on the topic. Share my experience with previous similar tools, and offer thoughtful debate either for or against, so long as it is constructive and valid in its presentation. All of which I have done.

Just because I ‘may not’ use it, does not mean that it does not necessarily affect me. Like I said, I don’t generally do dungeons, but sometimes I ‘have’ to (MF for example). If I ever want to finish the Destiny’s Edge storyline, I will need to finish the story paths for each dungeon, which I do intend to do…otherwise the completionist in me would never rest.

Just because ‘it doesn’t affect you’ doesn’t mean you don’t have an opinion. Doesn’t mean you don’t have a right to that opinion. Gay marriage doesn’t affect me, but I say go for it. Gay people should have the right to be just as miserable/happy (cause it goes both ways) in marriage as straight couples are.

Now think about how you feel about people that are against Gay-marriage and their reasoning for it and maybe you might understand where i’m coming from.

I played SWTOR back before they added DPS parsing, and everyone was saying the exact same thing. “Don’t add DPS parsing, this game isn’t about the numbers! It would only give more tools to elitists!! It will ruin the community!!”

Well, they added DPS parsing anyway and the community didn’t suddenly turn toxic. The casuals continued to play with the casuals and the raiders used DPS parsing for in-depth theory crafting.

When people claim adding a tool will ruin a community, this is based on their experiences with an already crappy community (cough, WoW). These claims are based on negative associations with the worst of worst players, which also make up a minority of the overall player base. More importantly, claims about tools fostering a toxic community have no empirical backing and are only perpetuated by forum hear-say.

I’m neither saying that the effect will be immediate, nor that the issue doesn’t already exist. I am simply voicing that it isn’t going to make it better either. Personal experience tends to make me lean towards it making it worse. Heck pure, simple human nature tends to lead one to believe that it will make things worse. You are inserting a tool that will enable the crappy people to be crappier to others around them.

Sure, you will have people like from your example, that will use it as it is intended to be used. But they can do that stuff now, they don’t need an ‘additional’ tool for it. Will it make it ‘easier’ oh sure, doesn’t make it a ‘necessity’ though.

While I do see your view, and can concede that there are potential positives, I don’t feel those outweigh the potential negatives of such a tool. This is just my 2 cents though, you don’t have to agree. I am perfectly fine with accepting and valuing your opinion while still holding onto my own. =)

Since you got me going… here is an equally false comparison that comes down on the other side.

“I don’t understand why we need locks on doors. Locks only protect us from the worst of humanity. And those people will use tools to break in anyway.

Most people won’t enter your home. We only want to have a look at your music and book collection. You should be willing to stand behind the music you listen to, right? This is an invaluable tool that will help us expand our musical horizons.

We will only use this information to find out whether or not to invite you to our party. If we don’t invite you it’s no big deal, you wouldn’t want to hang out with us anyway. After all we can see you don’t like Miles Davis"

TooBz.3065:

In no way does a debate on an inspect function in any way equate to a debate on gay marriage. It’s a false comparison.

The point was about advocating against something that doesn’t effect you. People that advocate against gay marriage won’t be effected by gays being able to marry, just like the people that advocate against /inspect won’t be effected by the addition of that tool.

Am i the only one here that is curious what gear people are wearing and how it’s socketed, that also doesn’t have every skin in the game memorized? Why does everyone assume this tool will only be used for maliciousness?

Why not thac why im woundering my self and why no DUEL crazyyyyy

Because the OP wants the tool for “malicious” purposes. Everyone has seen someones gear and wonders where did they get that skin. It took me forever to figure out that certain pieces were part of the T3 human armor. That is the upside (although someone on this thread already posted that s/he values his/her privacy and doesn’t want people to be able to quickly duplicate his/her look.)

The downside is that the elitist dungeon runners would have yet another tool to make everyone else feel inferior. Like the guy/girl who kept posting “not worthy… next” all over the place. (I know he was trolling, but isn’t that the point.)

For some of us the trade off isn’t worth it. We fear that the entire game will become like the posts on GW2LFG for COF p.1. This fear may be unfounded, but it’s enough that we don’t want to take the risk.

TooBz.3065:

This fear may be unfounded, but it’s enough that we don’t want to take the risk.

holy crap. you just summed up this whole thread in one sentence.

Scrambles.2604:

TooBz.3065:

In no way does a debate on an inspect function in any way equate to a debate on gay marriage. It’s a false comparison.

The point was about advocating against something that doesn’t effect you. People that advocate against gay marriage won’t be effected by gays being able to marry, just like the people that advocate against /inspect won’t be effected by the addition of that tool.

Am i the only one here that is curious what gear people are wearing and how it’s socketed, that also doesn’t have every skin in the game memorized? Why does everyone assume this tool will only be used for maliciousness?

I don’t assume that is will only be used maliciously. I’m concerned that it will be used more for malicious purposes than positive ones, and general human nature does support this concern. (Crap, just looking at some of the community supports this concern)

I guess I might be ok with it, if it only showed the skin information, but if you transmogged it and someone checks you out, are they going to assume you transmogged it, or that you’re wearing crap armor? Like you said, you have already run into this issue, being called a noob because your armor LOOKED low level. (Hmmm, didn’t I say something somewhere along the lines about judging books by their covers and first impressions….)

TooBz.3065:

This fear may be unfounded, but it’s enough that we don’t want to take the risk.

I would not say that this fear is unfounded at all…. There have been plenty of posts on here (non-trolls) that reinforce our reasons for concern. While yes, the forum is but a very small percentage of the player base, still…we really don’t to encourage those mentalities in the general community.

Scrambles.2604:

Am i the only one here that is curious what gear people are wearing and how it’s socketed, that also doesn’t have every skin in the game memorized? Why does everyone assume this tool will only be used for maliciousness?

No, you are not the only person curious but you may be one of the few that wouldn’t use it to be malicious. I can point you into the vast abyss of the the internet to show that, as a group of free thinking humans, there is still a large group of people whose point it is to be terrible contributors to humanity out of spite and/or humor. An /inspect function would not only encourage bad behaviors in a community but exasperate them. The function asks that we, as a community, self police ourselves and that is something that we as gamers, as internet goers, as humans have proven we can do without being ugly to one another. It’s the reason laws are made, why there are police, militaries, governments, overheads just to make sure that people are kind to one another and are punished for not doing so. I’m not saying an inspect tool will lead to anarchy but moderation exists for a reason because people cannot be trusted to do the right thing at all times. Even in this thread people have proven they do not want to do the right thing and instead want to satisfy themselves.

I admire your optimism and faith in humanity but you have to also consider the realistic side of introducing such a function. Will it kill a community immediately? No but toxic waste is still toxic waste, just because you can’t feel immediate repercussions doesn’t mean, that in the long run, it won’t cause cancerous results.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Scrambles.2604:

TooBz.3065:

In no way does a debate on an inspect function in any way equate to a debate on gay marriage. It’s a false comparison.

The point was about advocating against something that doesn’t effect you. People that advocate against gay marriage won’t be effected by gays being able to marry, just like the people that advocate against /inspect won’t be effected by the addition of that tool.

Am i the only one here that is curious what gear people are wearing and how it’s socketed, that also doesn’t have every skin in the game memorized? Why does everyone assume this tool will only be used for maliciousness?

I don’t assume that is will only be used maliciously. I’m concerned that it will be used more for malicious purposes than positive ones, and general human nature does support this concern. (Crap, just looking at some of the community supports this concern)

I guess I might be ok with it, if it only showed the skin information, but if you transmogged it and someone checks you out, are they going to assume you transmogged it, or that you’re wearing crap armor? Like you said, you have already run into this issue, being called a noob because your armor LOOKED low level. (Hmmm, didn’t I say something somewhere along the lines about judging books by their covers and first impressions….)

It’s been established that only “elitists” will use it maliciously to exclude people from their groups. It has also been established that the people that don’t want to be excluded because of gear, ALSO don’t want to group with “elitists.” So, the conflict only arises when people with bad-gear attempt to group with “elitists”, who they are actively trying to avoid grouping with in the first place.

Do you see how adding /inspect can sound like a non-issue? All the while, people that can ACTUALLY BENEFIT from adding /inspect are punished because of an irrational fear of “elitist” behavior, which they won’t even be subjected to as long as they continue to avoid the type of players we’ve already established they avoid.

People against /inspect: What percentage of the player base do you think would actually begin kicking you out of dungeons for not bringing full DPS gear and builds?

I feel like the Against team would place that percentage far above 50%, while personally I believe it’s more like 10-20%. And as has been stated already several times, you don’t want to play with those 10-20% of players anyway, so why would this hurt you?

No, I don’t care to group with Elitists, but I don’t care to enable them either. I don’t want to reinforce that their ‘attitude’ is ok, when it in fact is not.

Its like giving a crack addict his next dosage. Are you an addict no? So it doesn’t affect you right? Wrong.

You don’t hand someone trying to commit suicide a gun or a razor blade.

You don’t enable the behavior that you are trying to reduce/get rid of.

RoChan.1926:

Scrambles.2604:

Am i the only one here that is curious what gear people are wearing and how it’s socketed, that also doesn’t have every skin in the game memorized? Why does everyone assume this tool will only be used for maliciousness?

No, you are not the only person curious but you may be one of the few that wouldn’t use it to be malicious. I can point you into the vast abyss of the the internet to show that, as a group of free thinking humans, there is still a large group of people whose point it is to be terrible contributors to humanity out of spite and/or humor. An /inspect function would not only encourage bad behaviors in a community but exasperate them. The function asks that we, as a community, self police ourselves and that is something that we as gamers, as internet goers, as humans have proven we can do without being ugly to one another. It’s the reason laws are made, why there are police, militaries, governments, overheads just to make sure that people are kind to one another and are punished for not doing so. I’m not saying an inspect tool will lead to anarchy but moderation exists for a reason because people cannot be trusted to do the right thing at all times. Even in this thread people have proven they do not want to do the right thing and instead want to satisfy themselves.

I admire your optimism and faith in humanity but you have to also consider the realistic side of introducing such a function. Will it kill a community immediately? No but toxic waste is still toxic waste, just because you can’t feel immediate repercussions doesn’t mean, that in the long run, it won’t cause cancerous results.

Do you think maybe, because of the nature of the player themselves, people that use these tools constructively tend to go unnoticed? If their not bothering anyone then how do you ever notice them? While the few, malicious players also tend to be the loudest, they are the most noticeable.

if you want to consider the realistic side of introducing tools like this, why don’t you looked at real data instead of assuming it would make the community toxic. I have already said a bunch of times that SWTOR had /inspect and DPS parsing, as well as a thriving, story driven community focused on acquiring aesthetics.

You could look to WoW for a toxic community, but blaming their community on the inspect feature is just making causality out of correlation.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

No, I don’t care to group with Elitists, but I don’t care to enable them either. I don’t want to reinforce that their ‘attitude’ is ok, when it in fact is not.

Its like giving a crack addict his next dosage. Are you an addict no? So it doesn’t affect you right? Wrong.

You don’t hand someone trying to commit suicide a gun or a razor blade.

You don’t enable the behavior that you are trying to reduce/get rid of.

Why can’t you let us play the way we want to play? You won’t be in our groups, we won’t bother you in map chat, in fact you’ll only ever glimpse us as we pass by each other in Lion’s Arch. Why do you have to be so controlling?

Broadicea.8294:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

No, I don’t care to group with Elitists, but I don’t care to enable them either. I don’t want to reinforce that their ‘attitude’ is ok, when it in fact is not.

Its like giving a crack addict his next dosage. Are you an addict no? So it doesn’t affect you right? Wrong.

You don’t hand someone trying to commit suicide a gun or a razor blade.

You don’t enable the behavior that you are trying to reduce/get rid of.

Why can’t you let us play the way we want to play? You won’t be in our groups, we won’t bother you in map chat, in fact you’ll only ever glimpse us as we pass by each other in Lion’s Arch. Why do you have to be so controlling?

Why can’t you let me play how I want to play? I want to not have to worry about someone giving me crap because I choose to wear x over y, or because I choose to use a staff over daggers.

Why are you so controlling in telling me that I have to accept being inspected, whether I want to or not. Even if not by you specifically, by someone else. Potentially someone that has nothing to do with my play, just wants to be a kitten to someone.

The ‘let me play my way’ argument goes both ways. Your desire for /inspect infringes on my desire to be /inspect free. Both arguments are valid and have merit. However, its also the weakest argument that one can offer.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Broadicea.8294:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

No, I don’t care to group with Elitists, but I don’t care to enable them either. I don’t want to reinforce that their ‘attitude’ is ok, when it in fact is not.

Its like giving a crack addict his next dosage. Are you an addict no? So it doesn’t affect you right? Wrong.

You don’t hand someone trying to commit suicide a gun or a razor blade.

You don’t enable the behavior that you are trying to reduce/get rid of.

Why can’t you let us play the way we want to play? You won’t be in our groups, we won’t bother you in map chat, in fact you’ll only ever glimpse us as we pass by each other in Lion’s Arch. Why do you have to be so controlling?

Why can’t you let me play how I want to play? I want to not have to worry about someone giving me crap because I choose to wear x over y, or because I choose to use a staff over daggers.

Why are you so controlling in telling me that I have to accept being inspected, whether I want to or not. Even if not by you specifically, by someone else. Potentially someone that has nothing to do with my play, just wants to be a kitten to someone.

The ‘let me play my way’ argument goes both ways. Your desire for /inspect infringes on my desire to be /inspect free. Both arguments are valid and have merit. However, its also the weakest argument that one can offer.

What if i told you, you could get /inspected without even noticing.

mindblown

Scrambles.2604:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Broadicea.8294:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

No, I don’t care to group with Elitists, but I don’t care to enable them either. I don’t want to reinforce that their ‘attitude’ is ok, when it in fact is not.

Its like giving a crack addict his next dosage. Are you an addict no? So it doesn’t affect you right? Wrong.

You don’t hand someone trying to commit suicide a gun or a razor blade.

You don’t enable the behavior that you are trying to reduce/get rid of.

Why can’t you let us play the way we want to play? You won’t be in our groups, we won’t bother you in map chat, in fact you’ll only ever glimpse us as we pass by each other in Lion’s Arch. Why do you have to be so controlling?

Why can’t you let me play how I want to play? I want to not have to worry about someone giving me crap because I choose to wear x over y, or because I choose to use a staff over daggers.

Why are you so controlling in telling me that I have to accept being inspected, whether I want to or not. Even if not by you specifically, by someone else. Potentially someone that has nothing to do with my play, just wants to be a kitten to someone.

The ‘let me play my way’ argument goes both ways. Your desire for /inspect infringes on my desire to be /inspect free. Both arguments are valid and have merit. However, its also the weakest argument that one can offer.

What if i told you, you could get /inspected without even noticing.

mindblown

Already addressed that in a previous post.

zuraith.6104:

Broadicea.8294:

ITT: people wearing shameful gear and not wanting to be called out on it

I use one character, cliche’ glass cannon, best possible gear in the game. And I am VERY against inspection.

How do you know it’s the best gear in the game? Did you let Broadicea.8294 check it out and tell you so?

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Scrambles.2604:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Broadicea.8294:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

No, I don’t care to group with Elitists, but I don’t care to enable them either. I don’t want to reinforce that their ‘attitude’ is ok, when it in fact is not.

Its like giving a crack addict his next dosage. Are you an addict no? So it doesn’t affect you right? Wrong.

You don’t hand someone trying to commit suicide a gun or a razor blade.

You don’t enable the behavior that you are trying to reduce/get rid of.

Why can’t you let us play the way we want to play? You won’t be in our groups, we won’t bother you in map chat, in fact you’ll only ever glimpse us as we pass by each other in Lion’s Arch. Why do you have to be so controlling?

Why can’t you let me play how I want to play? I want to not have to worry about someone giving me crap because I choose to wear x over y, or because I choose to use a staff over daggers.

Why are you so controlling in telling me that I have to accept being inspected, whether I want to or not. Even if not by you specifically, by someone else. Potentially someone that has nothing to do with my play, just wants to be a kitten to someone.

The ‘let me play my way’ argument goes both ways. Your desire for /inspect infringes on my desire to be /inspect free. Both arguments are valid and have merit. However, its also the weakest argument that one can offer.

What if i told you, you could get /inspected without even noticing.

mindblown

Already addressed that in a previous post.

No offense, but this is what i’ve gathered from your posts.

“I dont want to see /inspect added. I don’t plan on using it, i don’t plan on being in a situation where it would be used against me. You may want to use it, but your reasons are not good enough, because people i purposely don’t play with may use it against me.”

The risk vs reward for you is very high, not because the risk is high but because since you have no reason to use /inspect there is no reward. Since you don’t interact with people that would use it against you, the risk is very low.

To me, the risk vs reward is very low. It would be very rewarding for me, but the potential risks are not great enough to dissuade me from the potential benefits. Since i don’t interact with people that would use it against me, the risk is very low.

Scrambles.2604:

Do you think maybe, because of the nature of the player themselves, people that use these tools constructively tend to go unnoticed? If their not bothering anyone then how do you ever notice them? While the few, malicious players also tend to be the loudest, they are the most noticeable.

if you want to consider the realistic side of introducing tools like this, why don’t you looked at real data instead of assuming it would make the community toxic. I have already said a bunch of times that SWTOR had /inspect and DPS parsing, as well as a thriving, story driven community focused on acquiring aesthetics.

You could look to WoW for a toxic community, but blaming their community on the inspect feature is just making causality out of correlation.

As the saying goes: “It only takes 1 bad apple to spoil the bunch.” Unfortunately you don’t need much to create a problem or make things hard for regular players.

I’ve never played WoW so I cannot comment on that, nor have I played SWTOR long enough to have a grasp on their community. However we can conclude that neither game is even close to GW2 in terms of play style. Besides we already have a perfect example of our own community’s undoing without having to resort to comparing apples and oranges.

I don’t know how long you’ve been around but prior to the 4 zerkers warriors 1 mesmer build CoF didn’t have a static set. When that min/max group was discovered it was only a handful that would shout for it and many others said to ignore them and continue on creating your own groups. Now though you can see that the min/max group is being asked for constantly and on a much larger scale that previously before. These requests dwarf the set request and even though you can still create parties without them, it’s only because we haven’t been encouraged yet to keep perpetuating the myth. With this evidence in mind, do you still believe that only a handful will use it and that it won’t effect the normal user at all? It will only serve to continue to enforce the idea that in order to run CoF p1 you need 4 zerk warriors and 1 mesmer as more and more people will be kicked before showing their skill or breaking the meta. We already have proof that the GW2 community cannot handle such a feature in a PvE setting.

In GW2 we have the freedom of diverse builds and since Anet likes to nerf and ‘buff’ things, in theory there are a mirad of builds that function well in group settings without being ‘The One Build’ However it requires those who party together to know enough about their class and be skilled enough to pull off multiple builds as well as do the same for every. other. class. There is no one who is perfect in this world and as much as people think there are MLG Pro, they often prove that they are not. There’s also the aspect that even if someone does meet the standards of ‘the one build’ that they do not play it well. An /inspect feature does not provide insight to a person’s skill which is the largely determining factor in GW2.

[EDIT]Removing the kitten censor for non needed words. sigh

Scrambles.2604:

No offense, but this is what i’ve gathered from your posts.

“I dont want to see /inspect added. I don’t plan on using it, i don’t plan on being in a situation where it would be used against me. You may want to use it, but your reasons are not good enough, because people i purposely don’t play with may use it against me.”

Well, that’s rather kitten y of you, but ok.

It doesn’t matter that I have accepted and acknowledged your points (and others), have even conceded that you have valid arguments, I’m just the kitten here it seems.

I have never stated that your reasons or any other are not good enough. I have stated that using the ‘let me play my way’ is a weak argument. I have also given my opinion with valid reasons behind my opinion.

You seem to feel that because I don’t agree with you, I am not a legitimate player. That because I may not use it, or may not group with those that use, that I have no right to offer my thoughts or preferences. The keyword there is ‘may.’

Yes, I have declared that I am against it, and have argued heatedly my reasons as to why. But never once have I EVER told anyone that their opinion was wrong, invalid, or not good enough for being for it.

I will agree to disagree with you on whether or not this feature should be implemented and to its usefulness in general. However, I will not argue with an kitten that opts to attack me as a person when he cannot refute my argument or make me change my view. You don’t want to see my view, fine, but you aren’t going to change my opinion

RoChan.1926:

I don’t know how long you’ve been around but prior to the 4 zerkers warriors 1 mesmer build CoF didn’t have a static set. When that min/max group was discovered it was only a handful that would shout for it and many others said to ignore them and continue on creating your own groups. Now though you can see that the min/max group is being asked for constantly and on a much larger scale that previously before. These requests dwarf the set request and even though you can still create parties without them, it’s only because we haven’t been encouraged yet to keep perpetuating the myth. With this evidence in mind, do you still believe that only a handful will use it and that it won’t effect the normal user at all? It will only serve to continue to enforce the idea that in order to run CoF p1 you need 4 zerk warriors and 1 mesmer as more and more people will be kicked before showing their skill or breaking the meta. That was what I meant about being realistic about it. We already have proof that the GW2 community cannot handle such a feature in a PvE setting.

GW1 FoW, DoA, and UW are prime examples of this issue. After the speedclear mentality sets in and the reinforcement that it’s ok to make people run cookie cutter builds, nothing else is acceptable. Unless you are taking heroes and guildies (and now, not even guildies thanks to the speed clear sickness) you can’t get a ‘balanced’ group for these things. Conform or gtfo….

First off in GW2 skill(knowing what to do when and being able to execute) is a lot more important than gear. You can have the best gear in the game but if you cant dodge properly all those extra stats aren’t going to save you.

Secondly just being able to see a persons gear wont give you a good picture of what they are capable of without knowing their build. Most “elitist” are like sheep they don’t actually find out for themselves whats good or bad but base their opinions on what they have heard or read. They tend to think that only certain builds are good while other non-conventional builds suck despite not having tried them.

People should play in order to enjoy the game NOT to maximize efficiency.(GW2 isn’t a job after all)

Also there is such low variety in terms of gear. Pretty much only a few type of gear types, just lots of different skins. Having a way to link your stats instead of an /inspect would make a lot more sense. Sort of like how someone can link their gear and others can click on it and get a popup.

Based on my own experience many of these “elitist” are the ones that are running around doing dungeons in full Berserker gear needing to be babysat because they constantly go down due to the fact they having fully grasped how to dodge. Perhaps thats why they they are so insistent that people have good gear due to the fact they need to be carried through the dungeon.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Broadicea.8294:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

No, I don’t care to group with Elitists, but I don’t care to enable them either. I don’t want to reinforce that their ‘attitude’ is ok, when it in fact is not.

Its like giving a crack addict his next dosage. Are you an addict no? So it doesn’t affect you right? Wrong.

You don’t hand someone trying to commit suicide a gun or a razor blade.

You don’t enable the behavior that you are trying to reduce/get rid of.

Why can’t you let us play the way we want to play? You won’t be in our groups, we won’t bother you in map chat, in fact you’ll only ever glimpse us as we pass by each other in Lion’s Arch. Why do you have to be so controlling?

Why can’t you let me play how I want to play? I want to not have to worry about someone giving me crap because I choose to wear x over y, or because I choose to use a staff over daggers.

Why are you so controlling in telling me that I have to accept being inspected, whether I want to or not. Even if not by you specifically, by someone else. Potentially someone that has nothing to do with my play, just wants to be a kitten to someone.

The ‘let me play my way’ argument goes both ways. Your desire for /inspect infringes on my desire to be /inspect free. Both arguments are valid and have merit. However, its also the weakest argument that one can offer.

Don’t really have much to add except that I agree with you almost entirely, and thank you for taking the time to argue the negative of a /inspect function.

It’s not a good idea at all.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Scrambles.2604:

No offense, but this is what i’ve gathered from your posts.

“I dont want to see /inspect added. I don’t plan on using it, i don’t plan on being in a situation where it would be used against me. You may want to use it, but your reasons are not good enough, because people i purposely don’t play with may use it against me.”

Well, that’s rather kitten y of you, but ok.

It doesn’t matter that I have accepted and acknowledged your points (and others), have even conceded that you have valid arguments, I’m just the kitten here it seems.

I have never stated that your reasons or any other are not good enough. I have stated that using the ‘let me play my way’ is a weak argument. I have also given my opinion with valid reasons behind my opinion.

You seem to feel that because I don’t agree with you, I am not a legitimate player. That because I may not use it, or may not group with those that use, that I have no right to offer my thoughts or preferences. The keyword there is ‘may.’

Yes, I have declared that I am against it, and have argued heatedly my reasons as to why. But never once have I EVER told anyone that their opinion was wrong, invalid, or not good enough for being for it.

I will agree to disagree with you on whether or not this feature should be implemented and to its usefulness in general. However, I will not argue with an kitten that opts to attack me as a person when he cannot refute my argument or make me change my view. You don’t want to see my view, fine, but you aren’t going to change my opinion

If you want to discontinue this debate that is fine. I never said you weren’t a legitimate player. I could careless about how you play or what you do with your time, as long as it doesn’t effect me. But advocating against tools i would like to see in the game that you wouldn’t use does effect me.

I respect your right to have an opinion, but i will only respect your opinion when you’ve adequately defended it.

edit; and please don’t take this so personally remember we’re all simple people that enjoy the same game.

Kopipoki.3542:

—
People should play in order to enjoy the game NOT to maximize efficiency.(GW2 isn’t a job after all)
—

Again this. Seriously, who do you think you are to tell how everyone should play?
I sometimes find this elitist community so disgusting…

penatbater.4710:

Jemmi.6058:

penatbater.4710:

Rising Dusk.2408:

I wish I could inspect my guildies so I could help them with their builds more easily. Without one, whenever they ask for build help, they have to ping a dozen items and write a veritable couple paragraphs to communicate their traits and things.

Having an inspect feature in PvE would no more foster elitism than what we already have. Mean people require you to ping your stuff or you’re kicked, don’t play with them. Limiting players from being able to inspect just on account of the bad people that will be there anyway is terrible.

They should absolutely carry the inspect from PvP over to PvE.

It’s not that we don’t like this on account of bad people. It’s just that the presence of a /inspect would FOSTER people to be critical of other people, whether or not they perceive them to be good builds or bad.

Except you have 0 evidence to prove that. This game is already more elitist than any other game I have played in. I played WoW too, and never felt the same sort of pressure to have one build or play-style forced upon me. Having inspect and damage meters allowed me to improve myself by watching other people and using these tools. Here, I have to resort to the forums to learn how to play the game.

It feels like we are punishing everyone, because some people previously had bad experiences with it. It’d be like saying no one is allowed to drive in this city, because a few people were in car accidents in that city a few states over.

Have you played LOL? That game’s community is infinitely more toxic that GW2. And I suspect other highly competitive games or other MOBA also foster toxic attitudes. It’s like meeting a nice and friendly person is such a gem there, whereas it’s the norm here.

Honestly, the only place I see /inspect would be ok is in pvp.

Nope, I never have played LoL. Guess it’s a good thing. I think you and I just see totally different uses for /inspect, as I don’t think it matters if it is in PvP or PvE as I’d use it the same way either way.

From my POV right now, the people who are anti inspect and anti LFG auto groupers etc are the ones who sound the most elitist. It seems like everyone who is against it thinks that because they don’t like it, no one should be able to have it. Why not have the option for it and if you don’t want it, find like-minded friends and guild with them and don’t use it. Let those of us who like them to use them? Pro choice.

Jemmi.6058:

From my POV right now, the people who are anti inspect and anti LFG auto groupers etc are the ones who sound the most elitist.

You alredy have a /inspect: talk to people. If you demand everyone ping their gear for efficiency, you can make that request of folks. People already do that.

Why do you want to go a step further? Why do you need a /inspect that the game doesn’t already cover in the gear ping mechanic?

Not worth discussing anymore. I believe we are at an impasse. Hopefully Arenanet doesn’t create this feature.

Scrambles.2604:

TooBz.3065:

In no way does a debate on an inspect function in any way equate to a debate on gay marriage. It’s a false comparison.

The point was about advocating against something that doesn’t effect you. People that advocate against gay marriage won’t be effected by gays being able to marry, just like the people that advocate against /inspect won’t be effected by the addition of that tool.

Am i the only one here that is curious what gear people are wearing and how it’s socketed, that also doesn’t have every skin in the game memorized? Why does everyone assume this tool will only be used for maliciousness?

Scrambles, it will affect the community on the long-or even, short- run. So even though it seemingly doesn’t affect “us”, it really does by making it “official” that it’s OK to discriminate based on gear. In short, it indirectly promotes a toxic community atmosphere, so it matters to all, whether they care or not about the issue-I am rather happy that ANet isn’t paying heed to those who want /inspect, because it means they care about the community and their game more than satisfying the false “needs” of a few.

To conclude, it won’t make the game better for all, so it won’t be added-and that’s fine by me. Gear-centric people can still find like-minded companions through other means-there’s no need to give a monkey any gun (no offense to monkeys to be sure.)

Feel free to disagree, though I am kind of sure that ANet realizes how dangerous such a “tool” that would be. You could use such inspect tool in a healthy manner, but even current game history indicates otherwise. No offense intended, and feel free to think differently-I just hope I made my point clear.

Nikaido.3457:

CETheLucid.3964:

Why do you want to go a step further? Why do you need a /inspect that the game doesn’t already cover in the gear ping mechanic?

Because people can and do lie. They still get kicked mid run because it’s obvious when someone is lying but it would be preferable to avoid that pest altogether.

And what would a /inspect do to stop the same thing from happening? It’s a piece of cake to carry two sets of gear.

Set one to pass /inspect
Set two to put on after we get in

You still have the same problem with people who would lie. Only now you’ve enabled and curried favor with a particular mindset over another with a /inspect function.

So community is healthy when you have to kick people mid-run when they run so horrible builds?

Scrambles.2604

I never said you weren’t a legitimate player.

Really? Not directly, no, but you imply by the following that people that don’t want and/or use this feature are not legitimate players. Since only legitimate players want access to and would use it.

Scrambles.2604:

• That means we should deny legitimate players access to those tools as well?*

How it was used made it sound like you were claiming that people that don’t want these tools are not legitimate players, at least in the context of the conversation at that time. If that is not what you intended, you may want to consider rewording it. Or not, entirely your call.

Scrambles.2604

I could careless about how you play or what you do with your time, as long as it doesn’t effect me. But advocating against tools i would like to see in the game that you wouldn’t use does effect me.

The same can be said for me. I don’t care how you play, or what you do with your time, but your desire for this tool COULD affect my game play just as much. I’m not saying it will or it won’t. I’m saying it could, and that is the concern.

Hell, I never said I’d never use it. I simply implied it wasn’t likely. I never thought I’d use the ping your skillbar feature in GW1, but I do all the time for sharing builds. I still don’t feel we need an /inspect when we have the ping option in GW2.

I respect your right to have an opinion, but i will only respect your opinion when you’ve proven to me that it is valid..

You do realize that by their very nature, opinions do not require any type of support or valid reasoning behind them, correct? [Even though I have provided several throughout my numerous posts) They need only be valid to the person holding that opinion, and generally speaking are not something ‘provable’ to anyone not of like mind. By not respecting my opinion, you are in fact not respecting my right to have one. As such, you have essentially stated that because you don’t agree with my opinion, which is wholly my own, it merits no credit or consideration. By that very determination, there is nothing I can say that will ever make my opinion ‘valid’ by your judgment. Sort of makes arguing the point moot, since we’re just going to go around in circles.

CETheLucid.3964:

Jemmi.6058:

From my POV right now, the people who are anti inspect and anti LFG auto groupers etc are the ones who sound the most elitist.

You alredy have a /inspect: talk to people. If you demand everyone ping their gear for efficiency, you can make that request of folks. People already do that.

Why do you want to go a step further? Why do you need a /inspect that the game doesn’t already cover in the gear ping mechanic?

I already said a few pages ago on a couple of different posts, but I understand this is a long thread.

I want it for:
1. Finding out the names of aesthetically pleasing gear when I pass strangers, sometimes when I whisper and ask what they are wearing they do not respond
2. Assisting friends and guildmates fine tune their gear and identify areas for improvement
3. To inspect better players, so that I can identify my own areas of weakness and/or come up with new ideas for builds

As for number 2, I recently was doing this and it took me over an hour, because I was helping a guildmate who was ESL. It took a very long time to figure out what gear he had and what he wanted/needed and to figure out once he actually got that gear. The /inspect option would have reduced time this took and would have been more convenient for both me and him.

I would also like Inspect to show more than just gear, but the side panel as well – where you can see all the stats of the hero panel. If you could even see traits, that would be awesome, but I understand that this may be undesirable for many.

Wethospu.6437:

So community is healthy when you have to kick people mid-run when they run so horrible builds?

It’s an MMO. You can’t control what other people will do with themselves as it relates to you to any honest degree.

If you play and plan to cooperate with other people, good or bad, your time is at their mercy no matter what.

Your solution in particular is to find better people to run with that don’t run horrible builds. You’ll find plenty of efficiency minded people out there.

You don’t need a /inspect function for that.

Star Ace.5207:

Scrambles.2604:

TooBz.3065:

In no way does a debate on an inspect function in any way equate to a debate on gay marriage. It’s a false comparison.

The point was about advocating against something that doesn’t effect you. People that advocate against gay marriage won’t be effected by gays being able to marry, just like the people that advocate against /inspect won’t be effected by the addition of that tool.

Am i the only one here that is curious what gear people are wearing and how it’s socketed, that also doesn’t have every skin in the game memorized? Why does everyone assume this tool will only be used for maliciousness?

Scrambles, it will affect the community on the long-or even, short- run. So even though it seemingly doesn’t affect “us”, it really does by making it “official” that it’s OK to discriminate based on gear. In short, it indirectly promotes a toxic community atmosphere, so it matters to all, whether they care or not about the issue-I am rather happy that ANet isn’t paying heed to those who want /inspect, because it means they care about the community and their game more than satisfying the false “needs” of a few.

To conclude, it won’t make the game better for all, so it won’t be added-and that’s fine by me. Gear-centric people can still find like-minded companions through other means-there’s no need to give a monkey any gun (no offense to monkeys to be sure.)

Feel free to disagree, though I am kind of sure that ANet realizes how dangerous such a “tool” that would be. You could use such inspect tool in a healthy manner, but even current game history indicates otherwise. No offense intended, and feel free to think differently-I just hope I made my point clear.

I could see people being so vehemently against DPS meters for fear of elitism. Not that i agree, but i’ve grown to expect it. But we’re talking about /inspect! I mean, seriously, it’s JUST an inspect!!

I know you guys like to hold hands and sing songs and never be criticized, but this is getting ridiculous. “Elitists” are suddenly the boogie man of this game. Yet no one has come to defend them. I am starting to believe these elitists don’t exist.

You can continue to make these wild, baseless claims about how /inspect will ruin the community. I can’t argue against that, because i don’t have evidence it wont, but you also don’t have evidence that it will make the community toxic.

I’ve got this view of /inspect as being a simple feature that lets curious and new players look at peoples shiny gear without bothering them. But “elitists” have already done so much damage to this community that any suggestion to add a useful tool is outright decried for fear of empowering these “elitists.”

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

snip

When i say “legitimate players” i mean "non-elitists.’ Stop taking everything so personally. An opinion is only worth as much as you can defend it. Everyone is entitled to an opinion but that doesn’t mean everyone’s opinions carry the same weight, out-right.

I could say “In my opinion, GW2 is more of a first person shooter.” If i can prove that GW2 shares similar elements with FPS’s then my opinion carries more weight. On second thought, i don’t know why i am explaining this to you.

Nikaido.3457:

CETheLucid.3964:

Why do you want to go a step further? Why do you need a /inspect that the game doesn’t already cover in the gear ping mechanic?

Because people can and do lie. They still get kicked mid run because it’s obvious when someone is lying but it would be preferable to avoid that pest altogether.

I acknowledge that there probably are players who will “lie” about their gear. However, to get away with that initial lie, they a) have to actually have the acceptable gear to ping; and b) it has to resemble the gear they hope to get away with wearing.

If someone is intent on lying, they could wear the “right” gear, be inspected, then change and hope to get away with it. You’re hoping that the fear that they could be “inspected” mid run will deter them. Nothing will deter such people.

As far as convenience, wouldn’t a one-click feature to “ping equipped gear” also serve this function? Mid-run, say you suspect Joe of wearing MF. “Joe, ping gear now.” If Joe takes the time to re-equip 13 or more pieces, you should notice the delay.

The two sides in this debate are never going to come to agreement. Why not look for a solution that might be responsive to both groups’ concerns? An opt-out on inspect might also work, but /inspect has a negative stigma that ping gear does not seem to share.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Nikaido.3457:

CETheLucid.3964:

Why do you want to go a step further? Why do you need a /inspect that the game doesn’t already cover in the gear ping mechanic?

Because people can and do lie. They still get kicked mid run because it’s obvious when someone is lying but it would be preferable to avoid that pest altogether.

I acknowledge that there probably are players who will “lie” about their gear. However, to get away with that initial lie, they a) have to actually have the acceptable gear to ping; and b) it has to resemble the gear they hope to get away with wearing.

If someone is intent on lying, they could wear the “right” gear, be inspected, then change and hope to get away with it. You’re hoping that the fear that they could be “inspected” mid run will deter them. Nothing will deter such people.

As far as convenience, wouldn’t a one-click feature to “ping equipped gear” also serve this function? Mid-run, say you suspect Joe of wearing MF. “Joe, ping gear now.” If Joe takes the time to re-equip 13 or more pieces, you should notice the delay.

The two sides in this debate are never going to come to agreement. Why not look for a solution that might be responsive to both groups’ concerns? An opt-out on inspect might also work, but /inspect has a negative stigma that ping gear does not seem to share.

I think an opt out would be a good solution. But you would still run into the same initial problem. If you can’t be /inspected then one may assume you have something to hide, and that in itself would get you denied access to a group.

so the best solution is to just implement it as it is PvE. And maybe increase the size of the ignore list, because apparently these non-excluding, anti-elitist players also have full ignore lists, haha.

Jemmi.6058:

I want it for:
1. Finding out the names of aesthetically pleasing gear when I pass strangers, sometimes when I whisper and ask what they are wearing they do not respond
2. Assisting friends and guildmates fine tune their gear and identify areas for improvement
3. To inspect better players, so that I can identify my own areas of weakness and/or come up with new ideas for builds

And if you couldn’t already do all of those things in game right now with the gear ping mechanic, you’d have a point.

But you can.

IndigoSundown.5419:

The two sides in this debate are never going to come to agreement. Why not look for a solution that might be responsive to both groups’ concerns? An opt-out on inspect might also work, but /inspect has a negative stigma that ping gear does not seem to share.

An /inspect function would be going a step further then is needed, and would enable a toxic community element. It would favor one mindset of gamer over the other.

The system in place is a perfect equilibrium. It’s not wise to mess with that.

Scrambles.2604:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

snip

When i say “legitimate players” i mean "non-elitists.’ Stop taking everything so personally. An opinion is only worth as much as you can defend it. Everyone is entitled to an opinion but that doesn’t mean everyone’s opinions carry the same weight, out-right.

I could say “In my opinion, GW2 is more of a first person shooter.” If i can prove that GW2 shares similar elements with FPS’s then my opinion carries more weight. On second thought, i don’t know why i am explaining this to you.

I really don’t know anymore. We sort of got off track. Maybe we both just like arguing.

I’m simply going to chalk it up to you feel we need it, I don’t feel we do, and the only people that can make any sort of final call on it’s necessity is Anet.

Yes please make this when i go with a pug group i don’t want players with less than exotic and magic find.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Scrambles.2604:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

snip

When i say “legitimate players” i mean "non-elitists.’ Stop taking everything so personally. An opinion is only worth as much as you can defend it. Everyone is entitled to an opinion but that doesn’t mean everyone’s opinions carry the same weight, out-right.

I could say “In my opinion, GW2 is more of a first person shooter.” If i can prove that GW2 shares similar elements with FPS’s then my opinion carries more weight. On second thought, i don’t know why i am explaining this to you.

I really don’t know anymore. We sort of got off track. Maybe we both just like arguing.

I’m simply going to chalk it up to you feel we need it, I don’t feel we do, and the only people that can make any sort of final call on it’s necessity is Anet.

by the amount of kitten-dropping you were engaged in, i venture to say only one of us likes arguing

but we can agree to disagree. However, i will also continue to actively disagree with everyone else in this thread.

CETheLucid.3964:

Jemmi.6058:

I want it for:
1. Finding out the names of aesthetically pleasing gear when I pass strangers, sometimes when I whisper and ask what they are wearing they do not respond
2. Assisting friends and guildmates fine tune their gear and identify areas for improvement
3. To inspect better players, so that I can identify my own areas of weakness and/or come up with new ideas for builds

And if you couldn’t already do all of those things in game right now with the gear ping mechanic, you’d have a point.

But you can.

Given that logic, you should remove all tools which are there simply for convenience and time saving. Off the top of my head, I suggest we remove:

1. Waypoints – you can already walk there
2. Asura Gates – see 1.
3. Exotic gear – You can do the content in rares
4. Whisper – you can always map chat or add people to your party
5. Guilds – just use your friends list
6. /wiki – Just alt tab, lazy!

OK, I hope you can agree with me that removing these items would be silly. That is how I feel about your comment in regards to “You can already do it, so adding a tool that makes it better is useless!”

Especially being as you are wrong. In reference to my points above..

1. When someone does not reply to a whisper or is Akitten and I am trying to figure out their gear, what do I do?
2. See my story about my ESL guildmate
3. Should I ask anyone I see better than me to ping their gear? Can you imagine that being successful and not annoying?

Did you read my note about wanting to see extra info such as the stats menu and/or traits?

Scrambles.2604:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Scrambles.2604:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

snip

When i say “legitimate players” i mean "non-elitists.’ Stop taking everything so personally. An opinion is only worth as much as you can defend it. Everyone is entitled to an opinion but that doesn’t mean everyone’s opinions carry the same weight, out-right.

I could say “In my opinion, GW2 is more of a first person shooter.” If i can prove that GW2 shares similar elements with FPS’s then my opinion carries more weight. On second thought, i don’t know why i am explaining this to you.

I really don’t know anymore. We sort of got off track. Maybe we both just like arguing.

I’m simply going to chalk it up to you feel we need it, I don’t feel we do, and the only people that can make any sort of final call on it’s necessity is Anet.

by the amount of kitten-dropping you were engaged in, i venture to say only one of us likes arguing

but we can agree to disagree. However, i will also continue to actively disagree with everyone else in this thread.

I find it hilarious how many words this thing substitutes kitten for. But no, that’s just how I normally speak, especially when I argue. Why be any different here than in real life? I see no point.

And by all means, go ahead. I never figured you’d stop arguing with everyone else. The base arguments on either side don’t change, they’re pretty standard and have all been hashed and rehashed. Still interesting to read though.

Scrambles.2604:

I think an opt out would be a good solution. But you would still run into the same initial problem. If you can’t be /inspected then one may assume you have something to hide, and that in itself would get you denied access to a group.

so the best solution is to just implement it as it is PvE. And maybe increase the size of the ignore list, because apparently these non-excluding, anti-elitist players also have full ignore lists, haha.

Yeah, well… some portion of the players who oppose /inspect do so for reasons other than trying to sneak into dungeon groups with min-maxers. I happen to think that percentage is quite large. You might actually generate more agreement for your position if you’d consider that it’s not all about us trying to get you to subsidize our dungeon experience with your skillz and build.

I wouldn’t like the idea of somebody looking into my living room with a telescope and watching me going about my business. Not knowing he’s doing it is immaterial. If I think it might be happening, I can close my drapes. With inspect-on-demand, I don’t have that choice. Yes, the loss of privacy in a video game is trivial by comparison to irl privacy, but so is min-maxer convenience.

And the best solution would be to find a solution that worked for everyone, not just one side or the other.

Kopipoki.3542:

People should play in order to enjoy the game NOT to maximize efficiency.(GW2 isn’t a job after all)

Oh the it’s not a job I don’t care about efficiency excuse. Efficiency isn’t exclusive to fun, and it’s built into gameplay whether you like it or not. Please don’t upgrade your gears to exotics or even rares, or take no trait points if you want to preach that idea.

10 pages! good god that’s long.

Sorry for jumping in middle like this but this really is a curious topic to read… but 10 pages… if u dont mind me asking something that might have been covered before in some of the middle pages, is there argument against people who do not want to be inspected, whether they realize it or not? As in people who do not wish their information be shared?

Jemmi.6058:

Given that logic, you should remove all tools which are there simply for convenience and time saving.

By your logic, we should remove ponies from the game because they’re completely out of place in GW2. Except there are no ponies in GW2 to remove.

There is no /inspect function. You’re asking or else arguing in favor of one.

Jemmi.6058:

OK, I hope you can agree with me that removing these items would be silly. That is how I feel about your comment in regards to “You can already do it, so adding a tool that makes it better is useless!”

I didn’t say not to add it because it was useless. I made my reasons clear.

Jemmi.6058:

Especially being as you are wrong.

Brilliant objective argument. Allow me a rebuttal – no u

Jemmi.6058:

1. When someone does not reply to a whisper or is Akitten and I am trying to figure out their gear, what do I do?

You build a bridge and get over it. People aren’t obligated to answer your questions. They may just be kittens like that. Look up http://www.gw2armorgallery.com/

Jemmi.6058:

2. See my story about my ESL guildmate

I’m sorry for your mate, but this is akin to asking for the mouse macro not to get me banned because my hand hurts if I play too long.

They’re not going to destroy their game for the potential convenience of a choice few honest folks. Many more will use the occasion for less then noble purposes.

Jemmi.6058:

3. Should I ask anyone I see better than me to ping their gear? Can you imagine that being successful and not annoying?

So then, are you beginning to see now why some folks might not be too keen on the idea of a /inspect option?

People can already and do hassle them for their gear choices in game. That option is already there and people do use it.

A /inspect function would take this a step even further. It’s not at all necessary, given the element this kind of thing encourages.

CETheLucid.3964:

By your logic, we should remove ponies from the game because they’re completely out of place in GW2. Except there are no ponies in GW2 to remove.

There is no /inspect function. You’re asking or else arguing in favor of one.

I feel you did not fully grasp the meaning of my post. You said that it is useless to add a tool that is convenient, because there are other methods of doing the task. I was saying that it is silly to say that convenient tools are useless, because there are other ways of doing said tasks, by providing some examples.

I can respect the reasoning of many that they feel it will foster elitism etc. I do disagree with that, however. I cannot respect the reasoning that there is already a way to do it, so don’t make it better. This is how we progress as a society, we are constantly tweaking things, adding tools and modifying ways to improve the ways we do the same tasks. There doesn’t have to be a problem to fix, there can simply be progress.

I didn’t say not to add it because it was useless. I made my reasons clear.

Your reason was clear, but I feel that it was silly.

You build a bridge and get over it. People aren’t obligated to answer your questions. They may just be kittens like that. Look up http://www.gw2armorgallery.com/

Yes I have used these websites. I have found a few things botherseome by them though. 1 I have to alt tab out of the game to find the gear I want? 2. They do not seem to have the ability to only show 1 item piece. I find a lot of chest pieces are not fully visible with the head, shoulders and gloves. I mix and match my gear and cannot get a good view of what would look well.

I’m sorry for your mate, but this is akin to asking for the mouse macro not to get me banned because my hand hurts if I play too long.

They’re not going to destroy their game for the potential convenience of a choice few honest folks. Many more will use the occasion for less then noble purposes.

I feel the honest folks are probably in higher supply than the elitist few. Therefore, I do not think it will be ruining the game as you say. As you also said, people already ask you to ping your gear, so the elitism is already there. Adding inspect won’t necessarily change that. I do not understand your analogy to the mouse macro thing.

So then, are you beginning to see now why some folks might not be too keen on the idea of a /inspect option?

People can already and do hassle them for their gear choices in game. That option is already there and people do use it.

No I do not see why they would not be keen. If I could just go in a dungeon and see someone perform very well and inspect them and emulate them without ever bothering them, I think that would be better than – Hey can you ping your gear? and they have to shift-click through.

A /inspect function would take this a step even further. It’s not at all necessary, given the element this kind of thing encourages.

It is not necessary, but it would be a welcomed tool that would make the game less frustrating and more enjoyable. Adding in-game tools is better than having to resort to websites to gain everything. I disagree that this kind of thing encourages what you think it encourages.

Scrambles.2604:

… Just like the people that advocate against /inspect won’t be effected by the addition of that tool.

Um.. I’m not sure that means what you think it means. If some people want to marry a partner who happens to be the same gender, that’s fine, because them being married doesn’t affect how I live, or alter my privacy in any way (they’re not going to drop leaflets in my door asking me out to a cool party, and btw does her sister look hot)..

However if /inspect was introduced into the game, people would use it on me, regardless of whether or not I want them to /inspect me or not. And that’s a completely different kettle of phish.