Guild Wars 2

Oh thank God. I thought this was going in another direction. Um . . . you mean interspecies. Regardless, I don’t think it’s possible except between humans and norn . . . maybe.

Fixing ye ol’ forum bug.

Ardenwolfe.8590:

Oh thank God. I thought this was going in another direction. Um . . . you mean interspecies. Regardless, I don’t think it’s possible except between humans and norn . . . maybe.

I’m pretty sure Anet have stated it’s not possible. There was a quest chain in GW1 where a norn wanted to marry you (two versions of it, one for male characters and one for females) and they (the norn) were talking about all the children you’d have.

But Anet said that was them misunderstanding and humans and norn cannot actually have children together. Physically everything matches up but on a generic level it just doesn’t work.

Makes sense.

Ah, I see OP is back to making controversial topics for the sake of being controversial.

It seems to me that there already are biracial NPCs. The Delaqua sisters are of Canthan decent however the surname doesn’t seem to be so it’s very likely that they aren’t “pure” (I hate using that) Canthan.

The people of Kryta seem to cover a range of skin tone and features we associate here in the real world as European, African and Asian. Now as for people with a common heritage clustering together, again in the real world it’s common place to see this occur as well.

The question is do we need to hang a hat on it? To point it out rather than simply show it in the faces of the people of Kryta?

Behellagh.1468:

It seems to me that there already are biracial NPCs. The Delaqua sisters are of Canthan decent however the surname doesn’t seem to be so it’s very likely that they aren’t “pure” (I hate using that) Canthan.

The people of Kryta seem to cover a range of skin tone and features we associate here in the real world as European, African and Asian. Now as for people with a common heritage clustering together, again in the real world it’s common place to see this occur as well.

The question is do we need to hang a hat on it? To point it out rather than simply show it in the faces of the people of Kryta?

The OP is actually talking about interspecies characters, or hybrids. In fantasy different (sentient) species are often called races, even though in real life that term is reserved for different variants within a species (i.e. humans).

In that case this isn’t Star Trek and science/magic hasn’t cracked the interspecies offspring problem.

Our characters live in a world where they can glide through the branches of trees, swim like Olympic champions in heavy armor, fight monsters in caverns beside large pools brimming with lava, bounce across floating chunks of earth via mushrooms, and drink potions that turn them into plants, animals, ruminants, ghosts, pieces of furniture, and Grawl snowmen, among other things.

Tell me again why cross-species breeding is impossible?

Tachenon.5270:

Our characters live in a world where they can glide through the branches of trees, swim like Olympic champions in heavy armor, fight monsters in caverns beside large pools brimming with lava, bounce across floating chunks of earth via mushrooms, and drink potions that turn them into plants, animals, ruminants, ghosts, pieces of furniture, and Grawl snowmen, among other things.

Tell me again why cross-species breeding is impossible?

Even a fantasy world needs to be true to its laid out lore and the world’s internal logic. If you’re going to toss aside the world’s logic and lore then all you have left is a chaotic mess where anything can happen for any reason or no reason.

The OP’s suggestion is opposed by the lore of the world. He suggests something that the game has already said can’t happen and he has not suggested a way for it to happen that fits into this world. He also has not laid out a compelling reason why having cross-species NPCs would improve the game according to the cost of putting
them in and the nonsense it would make of the lore.

Tachenon.5270:

Our characters live in a world where they can glide through the branches of trees, swim like Olympic champions in heavy armor, fight monsters in caverns beside large pools brimming with lava, bounce across floating chunks of earth via mushrooms, and drink potions that turn them into plants, animals, ruminants, ghosts, pieces of furniture, and Grawl snowmen, among other things.

Tell me again why cross-species breeding is impossible?

Because there is such a thing as internal consistency that means even with x set of impossible things a world designer doesn’t just add random things as they feel like it that can’t in some way dovetail with established lore.

Also because back during alpha and beta the devs outright stated that their world’s lore did not allow mixed-race (game race, ie species) breeding. Sure they could arbitrarily change that, if they wanted to. They could also reveal that humans are sleeper agents for the Borg (or an analog, hello copyright), that charr are born from dandelion seeds, and that asura are actually sock puppets animated by Palawa Joko, but they’d be going against that aforementioned internal consistency.

Does ANet’s writing measure up to, say, SM Stirling in fully exploring all the extrapolated ramifications of the established setting? No. But it still has standards and attempts consistency of setting.

I know this thread is another in the vein of many posted to poke sticks into the forum anthill and watch things stir, but really. Of all the areas of lore, this is one of the least murky, one of the few where we’ve gotten a categorical statement from the devs as to how the world works, and inter-species breeding has never been On the Table™. If the OP wants to provoke spirited debate, there must be topics that have no clearly right answer.

(Would I be open to it? Yes, if the world were designed that way. Half-Elves in D&D are fun — though maybe they should be half-humans? And why is the other half always human, anyway? but I digress — because they belong there. Mixed races in Tyria don’t belong in the lore, so I am not open to it in GW2).

Humans have iron-based blood and Vulcans copper-based. That alone would make viable cross-species offspring impossible without the application of as-yet-unknown science. Spock is a hybrid offspring of human and Vulcan, ergo such science was likely used.

I appreciate a degree of verisimilitude in games I play. However, magic would seem a sufficient rationale for cross species breeding. That the lore maker says that is currently not available does not mean it could not be made available going forward. That would also obviate the need to retcon such hybrids into existing content.

Such offspring would have to be children, and thus too young to play an active role in the dragon wars. ANet could also introduce forced growth. That would mean socialization negatives (i.e., the force-grown youngling lacks the socialization experiences of growing up) not to mention they’d need to be “magically” trained due to not having a normal growing-up.

It’s far-fetched, but I could see some crazy Asura deciding that the five races were losing people to the dragon wars and that the dragons would win once the races started having replacement issues. There could be an attempt, a la Star Wars clones, to create an army in test tubes. In such a case, why not make a hybrid if a combination of racial abilities meant better soldiers? I’d have to wonder, though, if an Asura would refuse to combine Asura with “inferior races.”

That’s all purely theoretical. Whether some version of this should actually happen cannot ignore practical concerns. Given the obvious issues with size (and its affect on skins), I wonder whether the potential gain in racial diversity would be worth the development costs, particularly making armor skins even more rare. My answer, is, “Probably not.” Ommv.

Then there’s the “would this be a good thing” factor? Just for me, I’d be happier if the Charr and Asura were wiped out, not combined. ;p

IndigoSundown.5419:

Humans have iron-based blood and Vulcans copper-based. That alone would make viable cross-species offspring impossible without the application of as-yet-unknown science. Spock is a hybrid offspring of human and Vulcan, ergo such science was likely used.

I’m not enough of a Star Trek follower to know what’s canon and what’s not, but I did read some Trek novels (by Diane Duane, I think) that established that yes, it was an enormous scientific undertaking for Sarek and Amanda to be able to have a child. Also in the Trek universe I think it’s been set up, perhaps by retconning, that most of the galaxy’s life was single-source seeded by Q’s people. If I’m remembering those episodes correctly, I haven’t watched most of them since original airing.

So even if some Inquest experiment managed to merge two species into some sort of chimera, it really wouldn’t be a common thing that would let RPers canonically state “I’m a mix of x and y races.” It’s odd enough when you see someone RP’d as x race raised by y race parents, though that can be done well if the player has good writing skills and isn’t just trying to be different for the sake of being special.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Tachenon.5270:

Our characters live in a world where they can glide through the branches of trees, swim like Olympic champions in heavy armor, fight monsters in caverns beside large pools brimming with lava, bounce across floating chunks of earth via mushrooms, and drink potions that turn them into plants, animals, ruminants, ghosts, pieces of furniture, and Grawl snowmen, among other things.

Tell me again why cross-species breeding is impossible?

Even a fantasy world needs to be true to its laid out lore and the world’s internal logic. If you’re going to toss aside the world’s logic and lore then all you have left is a chaotic mess where anything can happen for any reason or no reason.

The OP’s suggestion is opposed by the lore of the world. He suggests something that the game has already said can’t happen and he has not suggested a way for it to happen that fits into this world. He also has not laid out a compelling reason why having cross-species NPCs would improve the game according to the cost of putting
them in and the nonsense it would make of the lore.

I disagree.

How many impossible things in this game were not supported by the game world’s ‘logic and lore’ before/until they were put in the game and instantly became part of the game world’s ‘logic and lore’? Why do those things get a pass, but this one doesn’t? Simply because it hasn’t happened… yet?

Why is that centaurs evolving into their current illogical and dreadfully inefficient forms makes more sense in terms of logic and lore than them being the result of cross-breeding — helped, as I have already suggested, by magic (or asura science)?

If a charr and an asura fell in love, and one of them drank a potion to become the other’s species, and they made sweet love down by the fire, what might happen later, given the magically-infused circumstances?

Suppose our cross-species lovers both drank potions that turned them into, oh, I don’t know, let’s say cows. And someone came along and danced for them, and in so doing got them all hot and bothered so that nature took it’s course. In that magically-reconstituted state, what might happen should sperm and egg meet?

Logic and lore. If we have learned nothing else in the past four years, we should have learned that logic and lore in Tyria were made to be broken.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

In this game, all the races of Tyria seem to be segregated to their own people. I’m not talking about just the racial starting towns, but rather the whole open world (PvE and personal story). With love having no boundaries, there should be more biracial people out and about. What that said, would you be open to having NPCs of a mixed background?

I’d like to start a discussion on this idea, and hopefully not get into a debate on how it may or may not work. In game, we already have close biracial relationships. Braham and Taimi or Braham and Rox for example. If we took this further to the next logical step, it could open the doors for Anet story writers to introduce new types of NPCs and drama opportunities.

One day, we could be walking in Lion’s Arch, and meet a Charrsura. Or an adorable Norggan. Maybe a Skrylvari? So many races, so many pairings!

A plant rat sounds good. Where do I sigh?

Why stop at 2? We can can have all main species breed under this scenario… I mean who wouldn’t want to play a Norasursylcharruman right?

Tachenon.5270:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Tachenon.5270:

Our characters live in a world where they can glide through the branches of trees, swim like Olympic champions in heavy armor, fight monsters in caverns beside large pools brimming with lava, bounce across floating chunks of earth via mushrooms, and drink potions that turn them into plants, animals, ruminants, ghosts, pieces of furniture, and Grawl snowmen, among other things.

Tell me again why cross-species breeding is impossible?

Even a fantasy world needs to be true to its laid out lore and the world’s internal logic. If you’re going to toss aside the world’s logic and lore then all you have left is a chaotic mess where anything can happen for any reason or no reason.

The OP’s suggestion is opposed by the lore of the world. He suggests something that the game has already said can’t happen and he has not suggested a way for it to happen that fits into this world. He also has not laid out a compelling reason why having cross-species NPCs would improve the game according to the cost of putting
them in and the nonsense it would make of the lore.

I disagree.

How many impossible things in this game were not supported by the game world’s
‘logic and lore’ before/until they were put in the game and instantly became part of the game world’s ‘logic and lore’? Why do those things get a pass, but this one doesn’t? Simply because it hasn’t happened… yet?

Why is that centaurs evolving into their current illogical and dreadfully inefficient forms makes more sense in terms of logic and lore than them being the result of cross-breeding — helped, as I have already suggested, by magic (or asura science)

If a charr and an asura fell in love, and one of them drank a potion to become the other’s species, and they made sweet love down by the fire, what might happen later, given the magically-infused circumstances

Suppose our cross-species lovers both drank potions that turned them into, oh, I don’t know, let’s say cows. And someone came along and danced for them, and in so doing got them all hot and bothered so that nature took it’s course. In that magically-reconstituted state, what might happen should sperm and egg meet?

Logic and lore. If we have learned nothing else in the past four years, we should have learned that logic and lore in Tyria were made to be broken.

In other words, you’re saying let anything happen because the game needs no logic and no lore.

That’s one way to think of it, but neither you nor the OP has established why the Devs taking the time and money it would cost to add these NPCs and rewriting the lore benefits the game. Time and money that they could be spending on making playable content rather than pointless changes.

Short answer is no to any combination, since it’s already written somewhere that the races can’t interbreed in Tyria.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Tachenon.5270:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Tachenon.5270:

Our characters live in a world where they can glide through the branches of trees, swim like Olympic champions in heavy armor, fight monsters in caverns beside large pools brimming with lava, bounce across floating chunks of earth via mushrooms, and drink potions that turn them into plants, animals, ruminants, ghosts, pieces of furniture, and Grawl snowmen, among other things.

Tell me again why cross-species breeding is impossible?

Even a fantasy world needs to be true to its laid out lore and the world’s internal logic. If you’re going to toss aside the world’s logic and lore then all you have left is a chaotic mess where anything can happen for any reason or no reason.

The OP’s suggestion is opposed by the lore of the world. He suggests something that the game has already said can’t happen and he has not suggested a way for it to happen that fits into this world. He also has not laid out a compelling reason why having cross-species NPCs would improve the game according to the cost of putting
them in and the nonsense it would make of the lore.

I disagree.

How many impossible things in this game were not supported by the game world’s
‘logic and lore’ before/until they were put in the game and instantly became part of the game world’s ‘logic and lore’? Why do those things get a pass, but this one doesn’t? Simply because it hasn’t happened… yet?

Why is that centaurs evolving into their current illogical and dreadfully inefficient forms makes more sense in terms of logic and lore than them being the result of cross-breeding — helped, as I have already suggested, by magic (or asura science)

If a charr and an asura fell in love, and one of them drank a potion to become the other’s species, and they made sweet love down by the fire, what might happen later, given the magically-infused circumstances

Suppose our cross-species lovers both drank potions that turned them into, oh, I don’t know, let’s say cows. And someone came along and danced for them, and in so doing got them all hot and bothered so that nature took it’s course. In that magically-reconstituted state, what might happen should sperm and egg meet?

Logic and lore. If we have learned nothing else in the past four years, we should have learned that logic and lore in Tyria were made to be broken.

In other words, you’re saying let anything happen because the game needs no logic and no lore.

That’s one way to think of it, but neither you nor the OP has established why the Devs taking the time and money it would cost to add these NPCs and rewriting the lore benefits the game. Time and money that they could be spending on making playable content rather than pointless changes.

In other words, you’re saying we shouldn’t have asura, norn, or sylvari in the game, because the existing ‘logic and lore’ of the source material (the original Guild Wars game) had to be rewritten to make room for them, wasting dev-ine time and energy.

/facepalm

I have argued that crossbreeds could exist, and have offered various ways and means by which they might come into being. What I haven’t done is suggest that they should exist. I’d ask where you came up with that, but we already know, don’t we.

Furthermore, if Tyrians were meant to fly, they’d have wings! So there. :-P

Tachenon.5270:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Tachenon.5270:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Tachenon.5270:

Our characters live in a world where they can glide through the branches of trees, swim like Olympic champions in heavy armor, fight monsters in caverns beside large pools brimming with lava, bounce across floating chunks of earth via mushrooms, and drink potions that turn them into plants, animals, ruminants, ghosts, pieces of furniture, and Grawl snowmen, among other things.

Tell me again why cross-species breeding is impossible?

Even a fantasy world needs to be true to its laid out lore and the world’s internal logic.
If you’re going to toss aside the world’s logic and lore then all you have left is a chaotic mess where anything can happen for any reason or no reason.

The OP’s suggestion is opposed by the lore of the world. He suggests something that the game has already said can’t happen and he has not suggested a way for it to happen that fits into this world. He also has not laid out a compelling reason why having cross-species NPCs would improve the game according to the cost of putting
them in and the nonsense it would make of the lore.

I disagree.

How many impossible things in this game were not supported by the game world’s
‘logic and lore’ before/until they were put in the game and instantly became part of the game world’s ‘logic and lore’? Why do those things get a pass, but this one doesn’t? Simply because it hasn’t happened… yet?

Why is that centaurs evolving into their current illogical and dreadfully inefficient forms makes more sense in terms of logic and lore than them being the result of cross-breeding — helped, as I have already suggested, by magic (or asura science)

If a charr and an asura fell in love, and one of them drank a potion to become the other’s species, and they made sweet love down by the fire, what might happen later, given the magically-infused circumstances

Suppose our cross-species lovers both drank potions that turned them into, oh, I don’t know, let’s say cows. And someone came along and danced for them, and in so doing got them all hot and bothered so that nature took it’s course. In that magically-reconstituted state, what might happen should sperm and egg meet?

Logic and lore. If we have learned nothing else in the past four years, we should have learned that logic and lore in Tyria were made to be broken.

In other words, you’re saying let anything happen because the game needs no logic and no lore.

That’s one way to think of it, but neither you nor the OP has established why the Devs taking the time and money it would cost to add these NPCs and rewriting the lore benefits the game. Time and money that they could be spending on making playable content rather than pointless changes.

In other words, you’re saying we shouldn’t have asura, norn, or sylvari in the game, because the existing ‘logic and lore’ of the source material (the original Guild Wars
game) had to be rewritten to make room for them, wasting dev-ine time and energy.

/facepalm

I have argued that crossbreeds could exist, and have offered various ways and means by which they might come into being. What I haven’t done is suggest that they
should exist. I’d ask where you came up with that, but we already know, don’t we.

Furthermore, if Tyrians were meant to fly, they’d have wings! So there. :-P

You know what, we already know all that. We already know that this is a fantasy game and that the Devs could wave a magic wand and add potions that allow conception or ret con the lore at a whim. That part is obvious to everyone and really doesn’t need an explanation as any of us could have made some similar suggestion.

The objection is that it’s not in the lore. That it’s not wanted for the Devs to act in a deus ex machina manner to bring about such lore altering changes. And that it’s not wanted for them to waste dev time and money to make such a pointless change.

That is, after all, the point and question of the thread. Whether we want it, not whether a dev could wave a magic wand and make it possible.

That….actually sounds like a pretty cool idea. Breed some of the ugly out of the Charr and wackiness out of asura.

I’m Imagining some pointy eared, horned and tailed beings.

:thumbsup: from me.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Tachenon.5270:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Tachenon.5270:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Tachenon.5270:

Our characters live in a world where they can glide through the branches of trees, swim like Olympic champions in heavy armor, fight monsters in caverns beside large pools brimming with lava, bounce across floating chunks of earth via mushrooms, and drink potions that turn them into plants, animals, ruminants, ghosts, pieces of furniture, and Grawl snowmen, among other things.

Tell me again why cross-species breeding is impossible?

Even a fantasy world needs to be true to its laid out lore and the world’s internal logic.
If you’re going to toss aside the world’s logic and lore then all you have left is a chaotic mess where anything can happen for any reason or no reason.

The OP’s suggestion is opposed by the lore of the world. He suggests something that the game has already said can’t happen and he has not suggested a way for it to happen that fits into this world. He also has not laid out a compelling reason why having cross-species NPCs would improve the game according to the cost of putting
them in and the nonsense it would make of the lore.

I disagree.

How many impossible things in this game were not supported by the game world’s
‘logic and lore’ before/until they were put in the game and instantly became part of the game world’s ‘logic and lore’? Why do those things get a pass, but this one doesn’t? Simply because it hasn’t happened… yet?

Why is that centaurs evolving into their current illogical and dreadfully inefficient forms makes more sense in terms of logic and lore than them being the result of cross-breeding — helped, as I have already suggested, by magic (or asura science)

If a charr and an asura fell in love, and one of them drank a potion to become the other’s species, and they made sweet love down by the fire, what might happen later, given the magically-infused circumstances

Suppose our cross-species lovers both drank potions that turned them into, oh, I don’t know, let’s say cows. And someone came along and danced for them, and in so doing got them all hot and bothered so that nature took it’s course. In that magically-reconstituted state, what might happen should sperm and egg meet?

Logic and lore. If we have learned nothing else in the past four years, we should have learned that logic and lore in Tyria were made to be broken.

In other words, you’re saying let anything happen because the game needs no logic and no lore.

That’s one way to think of it, but neither you nor the OP has established why the Devs taking the time and money it would cost to add these NPCs and rewriting the lore benefits the game. Time and money that they could be spending on making playable content rather than pointless changes.

In other words, you’re saying we shouldn’t have asura, norn, or sylvari in the game, because the existing ‘logic and lore’ of the source material (the original Guild Wars
game) had to be rewritten to make room for them, wasting dev-ine time and energy.

/facepalm

I have argued that crossbreeds could exist, and have offered various ways and means by which they might come into being. What I haven’t done is suggest that they
should exist. I’d ask where you came up with that, but we already know, don’t we.

Furthermore, if Tyrians were meant to fly, they’d have wings! So there. :-P

You know what, we already know all that. We already know that this is a fantasy game and that the Devs could wave a magic wand and add potions that allow conception or ret con the lore at a whim.

That part is obvious to everyone and really didn’t need an explanation.

The objection is that it’s not in the lore. That it’s not wanted for the Devs to act in a deus ex machina manner to bring about such lore altering changes. And that it’s not wanted for them to waste dev time and money to make such a pointless change.

That is, after all, the point and question of the thread. Whether we want it, not whether a dev could wave a magic wand and make it possible.

People were saying it was impossible. I pointed out that it was, in fact, possible, given all the other impossible things extant in the game, as well as the notoriously malleable nature of fantasy game world lore.

As for your repeated objection that a thing cannot be because it’s not ‘in the lore’, I offer again the humble /facepalm, which, until recently, was beyond the physical capabilities of anyone in Tyria, and therefore could not logically be part of the lore, until, suddenly, one day, after some vast and overarching change mysteriously occurred, it was!

And so shall many other things come to pass, things not currently part of the logic and lore of Tyria, for change, whether you or I like it or not, and as all who partake of them know, is inherent in the nature of MMOs.

Well. Unless they’re on life support only. Which, praise the five, er, six, this one is not.

No way and I do not appreciate the attempted real world link here because it is not the same at all.

Tachenon.5270:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Tachenon.5270:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Tachenon.5270:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Tachenon.5270:

Our characters live in a world where they can glide through the branches of trees, swim like Olympic champions in heavy armor, fight monsters in caverns beside large pools brimming with lava, bounce across floating chunks of earth via mushrooms, and drink potions that turn them into plants, animals, ruminants, ghosts, pieces of furniture, and Grawl snowmen, among other things.

Tell me again why cross-species breeding is impossible?

Even a fantasy world needs to be true to its laid out lore and the world’s internal logic.
If you’re going to toss aside the world’s logic and lore then all you have left is a chaotic mess where anything can happen for any reason or no reason.

The OP’s suggestion is opposed by the lore of the world. He suggests something that the game has already said can’t happen and he has not suggested a way for it to happen that fits into this world. He also has not laid out a compelling reason why having cross-species NPCs would improve the game according to the cost of putting
them in and the nonsense it would make of the lore.

I disagree.

How many impossible things in this game were not supported by the game world’s
‘logic and lore’ before/until they were put in the game and instantly became part of the game world’s ‘logic and lore’? Why do those things get a pass, but this one doesn’t? Simply because it hasn’t happened… yet?

Why is that centaurs evolving into their current illogical and dreadfully inefficient forms makes more sense in terms of logic and lore than them being the result of cross-breeding — helped, as I have already suggested, by magic (or asura science)

If a charr and an asura fell in love, and one of them drank a potion to become the other’s species, and they made sweet love down by the fire, what might happen later, given the magically-infused circumstances

Suppose our cross-species lovers both drank potions that turned them into, oh, I don’t know, let’s say cows. And someone came along and danced for them, and in so doing got them all hot and bothered so that nature took it’s course. In that magically-reconstituted state, what might happen should sperm and egg meet?

Logic and lore. If we have learned nothing else in the past four years, we should have learned that logic and lore in Tyria were made to be broken.

In other words, you’re saying let anything happen because the game needs no logic and no lore.

That’s one way to think of it, but neither you nor the OP has established why the Devs taking the time and money it would cost to add these NPCs and rewriting the lore benefits the game. Time and money that they could be spending on making playable content rather than pointless changes.

In other words, you’re saying we shouldn’t have asura, norn, or sylvari in the game, because the existing ‘logic and lore’ of the source material (the original Guild Wars
game) had to be rewritten to make room for them, wasting dev-ine time and energy.

/facepalm

I have argued that crossbreeds could exist, and have offered various ways and means by which they might come into being. What I haven’t done is suggest that they
should exist. I’d ask where you came up with that, but we already know, don’t we.

Furthermore, if Tyrians were meant to fly, they’d have wings! So there. :-P

You know what, we already know all that. We already know that this is a fantasy game and that the Devs could wave a magic wand and add potions that allow conception or ret con the lore at a whim.

That part is obvious to everyone and really didn’t need an explanation.

The objection is that it’s not in the lore. That it’s not wanted for the Devs to act in a deus ex machina manner to bring about such lore altering changes. And that it’s not wanted for them to waste dev time and money to make such a pointless change.

That is, after all, the point and question of the thread. Whether we want it, not whether a dev could wave a magic wand and make it possible.

People were saying it was impossible. I pointed out that it was, in fact, possible, given all the other impossible things extant in the game, as well as the notoriously malleable nature of fantasy game world lore.

As for your repeated objection that a thing cannot be because it’s not ‘in the lore’, I offer again the humble /facepalm, which, until recently, was beyond the physical capabilities of anyone in Tyria, and therefore could not logically be part of the lore, until, suddenly, one day, after some vast and overarching change mysteriously occurred, it was!

And so shall many other things come to pass, things not currently part of the logic and lore of Tyria, for change, whether you or I like it or not, and as all who partake of them know, is inherent in the nature of MMOs.

Well. Unless they’re on life support only. Which, praise the five, er, six, this one is not.

Thank you for your suggestions as to how it could be achieved. you did make your point, that devs can alter things whenever and however they like.

Unfortunately your point doesn’t alter or change the core objections to the OP’s post, which is, do we want this change and why or why not, as it proposes imaginary changes to the game that have not been made or likely to be made. So, thanks for your suggestion but I personally did not find it helpful.

The way interspecies breeding has been explained to us by devs in a couple of interviews in the past and how they stated it won’t happen, I wouldn’t expect to see any hybrids between, say, humans and norn or any other race anytime soon if ever. I doubt the devs would change their minds about this unless they could think of a suitably good plot to go with it to add to the lore, and the chances of that are quite slim for the unforeseeable future for reasons that have been stated.

But while we’re on the subject, I could imagine that various hyleks (Central Tyrian hyleks, and the Itzel and Nuhoch of the Heart of Maguuma) might be able to breed with one another depending on how compatible they are by this point in time. Whether that then means that these hylek (frogmen) in general could breed with heket (toadmen from GW1 who appear to be distant cousins of the various hylek and who have yet to show up in GW2) is anyone’s guess. It’s also been stated that Canthan and Krytan tengu as well as the different centaurs from around the world also differ significantly yet each are respectively viewed as ‘cousin races’, so it might be possible for different tengu tribes to breed, and for different centaur tribes to breed given this information. Whether, say, the naga and krait could breed despite their similarities is murky, but my gut instinct would say no until we receive more information about each serpentine race’s origins and if they come from the same ancient source or not as well as how much time has passed since their races going their separate ways (assuming they do share a common origin).

Regarding hybrids themselves, we’ve actually had one notable case presented to us during Living World Season 1’s Tower of Nightmares arc: the Toxic Hybrid which had both krait and sylvari characteristics and which devs told us was a krait in an interview from that period in time. However, given the way the hybrid came out of a pod, quickly developed a sentience and capability of speech as it evolved over the course of the fight from an infant state to adult through its pose, attack and speech patterns, how the tower was said to understand what we were attempting to do, the effects of the poison and attempts at mind control as seen how the Toxic Alliance were affected, as well as hearing Mordremoth’s Theme playing in the soundtrack for the first time, my theory is that this hybrid was less of a modified krait as it was actually a mordrem clone and the Tower of Nightmares was a Blighting Tree (either a fully corrupted minion or one of the seeds where the Pale Tree originated from who was guided to evil by the Toxic Alliance due to ambiguity in the storytelling).

What we learn of the Blighting Trees during HoT’s story and open world events is that the mordrem (to which sylvari belong as per Wynne’s wording in Season 2 although how tied the Blighting Trees are to Mordremoth is ambiguous at best because the Dream and Nightmare shielded sylvari from Mordremoth and thus didn’t originate from the dragon, so the Blighting Trees may simply be beings that Mordremoth corrupted rather than being ‘created’ by it from scratch) take genetic templates of corpses (and in a later HoT story instance from living victims as seen with Logan and Zojja once Mordremoth cracked the code of how to get it done as implied by the vision from Glint’s Egg in Tarir) and use the corpses as fertilizers to grow mordrem which are hive-minded clones of the original.

The sylvari from Pale Tree and Malyck’s Tree differ from this norm, however, which indicates that the two Trees (and other seeds that Ronan discovered in the guarded cave) may have been purified in the past, possibly by the Forgotten, to wait for a later time. This does explain, though, why sylvari are infertile and why only their Trees can produce “offspring”: as purified dragon champions, they’re capable of creating lesser minions but these minions are infertile as is every dragon minion encountered in game so far.

The one curious lore tidbit is why mordrem require a corpse per mordrem born (as per Mordrem Guard dialogue in Auric Basin) while the Pale Tree and likely Malyck’s Tree can produce more and more sylvari without needing corpses to nourish their fertilizing supply. One could theorize that the reason for this is that the Blighting Trees encountered in HoT maps (as well as the Tower of Nightmares) were still juvenile unlike Pale Tree and Malyck’s Tree who were already old enough to not need constant fertilizing to produce minions, but this is likely a mystery that might be explored once/if we return to the Malyck plot and the origins of the Trees and the mystery of the cave in some future storyline.

So, based on this evidence, even the mordrem aren’t exactly “plant hybrids” of existing creatures per se but simply copies and they, too, cannot breed with other creatures just like we’ve learned that all dragon minions are infertile due to the dragon corruption affecting them.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

I had asked that this discussion not descend into a “can or cannot”, but I guess I need to address the 500 lb. elephant in the room.

Sylvari are a newer race to this world. Having just been born through magic, their bodies are still adjusting to their preferred humanoid forms. With time, their bodies will be able to reproduce. This is the natural process of evolution.

Speaking on genetics, all life started out as a single cell in an ooze on the surface of the newly formed Earth. We evolved into our current form, but evolution doesn’t stop there. Basic Genetics 101 – changes are not an “if”, but a “when”. So if a quaggan wants to mate with a human, so help me Dwayna, nature will find a way.

Basic Genetics 101. No, nature will NOT find a way. Evolution is NOT about wants. It’s about change in response to the surrounding environment, but there has to be a “path” possible towards this change. If two species are genetically incompatible then there is no pathway and there will be no pathway because evolution drives species apart not together,.

Evolution isnt really about change in response to the being’s environment so much as it is about random changes, of which those best suited to success in the environment tend to become dominant traits.

The change itself isnt in response to the environment, but the success of the being with the new trait is due to the trait’s applicability to the environment. It may seem like a fine distinction but it is an important one. The first giraffe didnt grow a long neck to be able to reach a food shpply that is beyond the reach of other herbivores. Rather a creature with a random mutation that gave it a long neck allowed it to eat better than others of the base species and so had greater opportunity to thrive and pass on the long neck trait.

Ashen.2907:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

I had asked that this discussion not descend into a “can or cannot”, but I guess I need to address the 500 lb. elephant in the room.

Sylvari are a newer race to this world. Having just been born through magic, their bodies are still adjusting to their preferred humanoid forms. With time, their bodies will be able to reproduce. This is the natural process of evolution.

Speaking on genetics, all life started out as a single cell in an ooze on the surface of the newly formed Earth. We evolved into our current form, but evolution doesn’t stop there. Basic Genetics 101 – changes are not an “if”, but a “when”. So if a quaggan wants to mate with a human, so help me Dwayna, nature will find a way.

Basic Genetics 101. No, nature will NOT find a way. Evolution is NOT about wants. It’s about change in response to the surrounding environment, but there has to be a “path” possible towards this change. If two species are genetically incompatible then there is no pathway and there will be no pathway because evolution drives species apart not together,.

Evolution isnt really about change in response to the being’s environment so much as it is about random changes, of which those best suited to success in the environment tend to become dominant traits.

The change itself isnt in response to the environment, but the success of the being with the new trait is due to the trait’s applicability to the environment. It may seem like a fine distinction but it is an important one. The first giraffe didnt grow a long neck to be able to reach a food shpply that is beyond the reach of other herbivores. Rather a creature with a random mutation that gave it a long neck allowed it to eat better than others of the base species and so had greater opportunity to thrive and pass on the long neck trait.

Yes. I meant species change over geologic time in response to environmental pressure or to take advantage of a opportunity. The pathway I was talking about was the possibility of offspring.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

That is, after all, the point and question of the thread.

Considering who posted it, and his history of creating thread topics that are socially divisive purely to create discord and argument, I highly doubt this post is any different.

How about NO?

It’s just creepy and let’s be honest it doesn’t even make sense…

Tachenon.5270:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Tachenon.5270:

Swagger.1459:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Evolution is NOT about wants. It’s about change in response to the surrounding environment, but there has to be a “path” possible towards this change.

So you’re saying that a charr mating with an asura is due to a change in the environment? Well wouldn’t you know it, Primodus is awakening. When his rein of terror blankets the land in death, nature will call forth a new type of hero. One born of the fires of war (charr) with the intellect to succeed (asura). And there you have it: Charrsura.

Basic Fantasy 101: When a foe is too powerful, you power up. Think of it like Goku’s fusion technique.

Hybrid species are not happening in gw2 for a multitude of reasons.

You mean like centaurs?

Centaurs, in Tyria, are not hybrid. They have humanoid parts, the torso, but the entire rest of their bodies are beastial in nature. Their heads are more similar to goats than humans, even than horses.

The only creature that can truly be considered a hybrid is most likely the Norn, who were created by Koda magic more than evolution. It’s more than a little unclear how they were made and if humans were involved in any way. But even they are not compatible with humans, primarily due to an incredibly increased body temperature that would kill off human sperm, and would probably damage a human egg as well.

You seem to be referring to the centaurs from Elona, which are a three-way between horses, gazelles, and big cats. However, see —

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Centaur

— for the Central Tyrian variety.

No, actually I’m I’m talking about the Centaurs in Kryta. I’ve never been to Elona. Hell, just looking at the pictures in that wiki you can see they don’t have human heads. Not at all human.

Kal Spiro.9745:

Tachenon.5270:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Tachenon.5270:

Swagger.1459:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Evolution is NOT about wants. It’s about change in response to the surrounding environment, but there has to be a “path” possible towards this change.

So you’re saying that a charr mating with an asura is due to a change in the environment? Well wouldn’t you know it, Primodus is awakening. When his rein of terror blankets the land in death, nature will call forth a new type of hero. One born of the fires of war (charr) with the intellect to succeed (asura). And there you have it: Charrsura.

Basic Fantasy 101: When a foe is too powerful, you power up. Think of it like Goku’s fusion technique.

Hybrid species are not happening in gw2 for a multitude of reasons.

You mean like centaurs?

Centaurs, in Tyria, are not hybrid. They have humanoid parts, the torso, but the entire rest of their bodies are beastial in nature. Their heads are more similar to goats than humans, even than horses.

The only creature that can truly be considered a hybrid is most likely the Norn, who were created by Koda magic more than evolution. It’s more than a little unclear how they were made and if humans were involved in any way. But even they are not compatible with humans, primarily due to an incredibly increased body temperature that would kill off human sperm, and would probably damage a human egg as well.

You seem to be referring to the centaurs from Elona, which are a three-way between horses, gazelles, and big cats. However, see —

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Centaur

— for the Central Tyrian variety.

No, actually I’m I’m talking about the Centaurs in Kryta. I’ve never been to Elona. Hell, just looking at the pictures in that wiki you can see they don’t have human heads. Not at all human.

The krytan centaurs look almost more minos than equine. The elonian centaurs look like gazelles. Conclusion, its inconceivable a human was ever involved in either

Amaimon.7823:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Tachenon.5270:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Tachenon.5270:

Swagger.1459:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Evolution is NOT about wants. It’s about change in response to the surrounding environment, but there has to be a “path” possible towards this change.

So you’re saying that a charr mating with an asura is due to a change in the environment? Well wouldn’t you know it, Primodus is awakening. When his rein of terror blankets the land in death, nature will call forth a new type of hero. One born of the fires of war (charr) with the intellect to succeed (asura). And there you have it: Charrsura.

Basic Fantasy 101: When a foe is too powerful, you power up. Think of it like Goku’s fusion technique.

Hybrid species are not happening in gw2 for a multitude of reasons.

You mean like centaurs?

Centaurs, in Tyria, are not hybrid. They have humanoid parts, the torso, but the entire rest of their bodies are beastial in nature. Their heads are more similar to goats than humans, even than horses.

The only creature that can truly be considered a hybrid is most likely the Norn, who were created by Koda magic more than evolution. It’s more than a little unclear how they were made and if humans were involved in any way. But even they are not compatible with humans, primarily due to an incredibly increased body temperature that would kill off human sperm, and would probably damage a human egg as well.

You seem to be referring to the centaurs from Elona, which are a three-way between horses, gazelles, and big cats. However, see —

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Centaur

— for the Central Tyrian variety.

No, actually I’m I’m talking about the Centaurs in Kryta. I’ve never been to Elona. Hell, just looking at the pictures in that wiki you can see they don’t have human heads. Not at all human.

The krytan centaurs look almost more minos than equine. The elonian centaurs look like gazelles. Conclusion, its inconceivable a human was ever involved in either

Torso? Arms? Hands? If not human, then what? Norn? Those blue guys whose name I can never remember? Largos. Are there any other species in Tyria with such distinctly human-like upper bodies? Besides sylvari, that is, who are still babes in the wood, so to speak, on the evolutionary front. In any event, I wouldn’t say human involvement was, ya know, inconceivable…

Tachenon.5270:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Tachenon.5270:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Tachenon.5270:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Tachenon.5270:

Our characters live in a world where they can glide through the branches of trees, swim like Olympic champions in heavy armor, fight monsters in caverns beside large pools brimming with lava, bounce across floating chunks of earth via mushrooms, and drink potions that turn them into plants, animals, ruminants, ghosts, pieces of furniture, and Grawl snowmen, among other things.

Tell me again why cross-species breeding is impossible?

Even a fantasy world needs to be true to its laid out lore and the world’s internal logic.
If you’re going to toss aside the world’s logic and lore then all you have left is a chaotic mess where anything can happen for any reason or no reason.

The OP’s suggestion is opposed by the lore of the world. He suggests something that the game has already said can’t happen and he has not suggested a way for it to happen that fits into this world. He also has not laid out a compelling reason why having cross-species NPCs would improve the game according to the cost of putting
them in and the nonsense it would make of the lore.

I disagree.

How many impossible things in this game were not supported by the game world’s
‘logic and lore’ before/until they were put in the game and instantly became part of the game world’s ‘logic and lore’? Why do those things get a pass, but this one doesn’t? Simply because it hasn’t happened… yet?

Why is that centaurs evolving into their current illogical and dreadfully inefficient forms makes more sense in terms of logic and lore than them being the result of cross-breeding — helped, as I have already suggested, by magic (or asura science)

If a charr and an asura fell in love, and one of them drank a potion to become the other’s species, and they made sweet love down by the fire, what might happen later, given the magically-infused circumstances

Suppose our cross-species lovers both drank potions that turned them into, oh, I don’t know, let’s say cows. And someone came along and danced for them, and in so doing got them all hot and bothered so that nature took it’s course. In that magically-reconstituted state, what might happen should sperm and egg meet?

Logic and lore. If we have learned nothing else in the past four years, we should have learned that logic and lore in Tyria were made to be broken.

In other words, you’re saying let anything happen because the game needs no logic and no lore.

That’s one way to think of it, but neither you nor the OP has established why the Devs taking the time and money it would cost to add these NPCs and rewriting the lore benefits the game. Time and money that they could be spending on making playable content rather than pointless changes.

In other words, you’re saying we shouldn’t have asura, norn, or sylvari in the game, because the existing ‘logic and lore’ of the source material (the original Guild Wars
game) had to be rewritten to make room for them, wasting dev-ine time and energy.

/facepalm

I have argued that crossbreeds could exist, and have offered various ways and means by which they might come into being. What I haven’t done is suggest that they
should exist. I’d ask where you came up with that, but we already know, don’t we.

Furthermore, if Tyrians were meant to fly, they’d have wings! So there. :-P

You know what, we already know all that. We already know that this is a fantasy game and that the Devs could wave a magic wand and add potions that allow conception or ret con the lore at a whim.

That part is obvious to everyone and really didn’t need an explanation.

The objection is that it’s not in the lore. That it’s not wanted for the Devs to act in a deus ex machina manner to bring about such lore altering changes. And that it’s not wanted for them to waste dev time and money to make such a pointless change.

That is, after all, the point and question of the thread. Whether we want it, not whether a dev could wave a magic wand and make it possible.

People were saying it was impossible.

CLEARLY we meant “impossible from a breeding standpoint”. Not sure why anyone would have to argue “magic” against that. I mean, this is a virtual world not a real one…its not like people thought that someone would have to literally try to breed interracial beings or anything.

Tachenon.5270:

Amaimon.7823:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Tachenon.5270:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Tachenon.5270:

Swagger.1459:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Evolution is NOT about wants. It’s about change in response to the surrounding environment, but there has to be a “path” possible towards this change.

So you’re saying that a charr mating with an asura is due to a change in the environment? Well wouldn’t you know it, Primodus is awakening. When his rein of terror blankets the land in death, nature will call forth a new type of hero. One born of the fires of war (charr) with the intellect to succeed (asura). And there you have it: Charrsura.

Basic Fantasy 101: When a foe is too powerful, you power up. Think of it like Goku’s fusion technique.

Hybrid species are not happening in gw2 for a multitude of reasons.

You mean like centaurs?

Centaurs, in Tyria, are not hybrid. They have humanoid parts, the torso, but the entire rest of their bodies are beastial in nature. Their heads are more similar to goats than humans, even than horses.

The only creature that can truly be considered a hybrid is most likely the Norn, who were created by Koda magic more than evolution. It’s more than a little unclear how they were made and if humans were involved in any way. But even they are not compatible with humans, primarily due to an incredibly increased body temperature that would kill off human sperm, and would probably damage a human egg as well.

You seem to be referring to the centaurs from Elona, which are a three-way between horses, gazelles, and big cats. However, see —

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Centaur

— for the Central Tyrian variety.

No, actually I’m I’m talking about the Centaurs in Kryta. I’ve never been to Elona. Hell, just looking at the pictures in that wiki you can see they don’t have human heads. Not at all human.

The krytan centaurs look almost more minos than equine. The elonian centaurs look like gazelles. Conclusion, its inconceivable a human was ever involved in either

Torso? Arms? Hands? If not human, then what? Norn? Those blue guys whose name I can never remember? Largos. Are there any other species in Tyria with such distinctly human-like upper bodies? Besides sylvari, that is, who are still babes in the wood, so to speak, on the evolutionary front. In any event, I wouldn’t say human involvement was, ya know, inconceivable…

Jotuns, ogres, ettins, harpies, Giants and Fleshreavers. Male Charr.

As well as others I’ve undoubtably forgotten.

The “human upper body type” is so common that nothing can be deduced about a creature’s ancestors simply by having it. It’s a design used with many different, unrelated creatures that have hands.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Tachenon.5270:

Amaimon.7823:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Tachenon.5270:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Tachenon.5270:

Swagger.1459:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Evolution is NOT about wants. It’s about change in response to the surrounding environment, but there has to be a “path” possible towards this change.

So you’re saying that a charr mating with an asura is due to a change in the environment? Well wouldn’t you know it, Primodus is awakening. When his rein of terror blankets the land in death, nature will call forth a new type of hero. One born of the fires of war (charr) with the intellect to succeed (asura). And there you have it: Charrsura.

Basic Fantasy 101: When a foe is too powerful, you power up. Think of it like Goku’s fusion technique.

Hybrid species are not happening in gw2 for a multitude of reasons.

You mean like centaurs?

Centaurs, in Tyria, are not hybrid. They have humanoid parts, the torso, but the entire rest of their bodies are beastial in nature. Their heads are more similar to goats than humans, even than horses.

The only creature that can truly be considered a hybrid is most likely the Norn, who were created by Koda magic more than evolution. It’s more than a little unclear how they were made and if humans were involved in any way. But even they are not compatible with humans, primarily due to an incredibly increased body temperature that would kill off human sperm, and would probably damage a human egg as well.

You seem to be referring to the centaurs from Elona, which are a three-way between horses, gazelles, and big cats. However, see —

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Centaur

— for the Central Tyrian variety.

No, actually I’m I’m talking about the Centaurs in Kryta. I’ve never been to Elona. Hell, just looking at the pictures in that wiki you can see they don’t have human heads. Not at all human.

The krytan centaurs look almost more minos than equine. The elonian centaurs look like gazelles. Conclusion, its inconceivable a human was ever involved in either

Torso? Arms? Hands? If not human, then what? Norn? Those blue guys whose name I can never remember? Largos. Are there any other species in Tyria with such distinctly human-like upper bodies? Besides sylvari, that is, who are still babes in the wood, so to speak, on the evolutionary front. In any event, I wouldn’t say human involvement was, ya know, inconceivable…

Jotuns, ogres, ettins, harpies, Giants and Fleshreavers. Male Charr.

As well as others I’ve undoubtably forgotten.

The “human upper body type” is so common that nothing can be deduced about a creature’s ancestors simply by having it. It’s a design used with many different, unrelated creatures that have hands.

As well as any number of now extinct creatures in Tyria and neighboring lands.

Djinn.9245:

Tachenon.5270:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Tachenon.5270:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Tachenon.5270:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Tachenon.5270:

Our characters live in a world where they can glide through the branches of trees, swim like Olympic champions in heavy armor, fight monsters in caverns beside large pools brimming with lava, bounce across floating chunks of earth via mushrooms, and drink potions that turn them into plants, animals, ruminants, ghosts, pieces of furniture, and Grawl snowmen, among other things.

Tell me again why cross-species breeding is impossible?

Even a fantasy world needs to be true to its laid out lore and the world’s internal logic.
If you’re going to toss aside the world’s logic and lore then all you have left is a chaotic mess where anything can happen for any reason or no reason.

The OP’s suggestion is opposed by the lore of the world. He suggests something that the game has already said can’t happen and he has not suggested a way for it to happen that fits into this world. He also has not laid out a compelling reason why having cross-species NPCs would improve the game according to the cost of putting
them in and the nonsense it would make of the lore.

I disagree.

How many impossible things in this game were not supported by the game world’s
‘logic and lore’ before/until they were put in the game and instantly became part of the game world’s ‘logic and lore’? Why do those things get a pass, but this one doesn’t? Simply because it hasn’t happened… yet?

Why is that centaurs evolving into their current illogical and dreadfully inefficient forms makes more sense in terms of logic and lore than them being the result of cross-breeding — helped, as I have already suggested, by magic (or asura science)

If a charr and an asura fell in love, and one of them drank a potion to become the other’s species, and they made sweet love down by the fire, what might happen later, given the magically-infused circumstances

Suppose our cross-species lovers both drank potions that turned them into, oh, I don’t know, let’s say cows. And someone came along and danced for them, and in so doing got them all hot and bothered so that nature took it’s course. In that magically-reconstituted state, what might happen should sperm and egg meet?

Logic and lore. If we have learned nothing else in the past four years, we should have learned that logic and lore in Tyria were made to be broken.

In other words, you’re saying let anything happen because the game needs no logic and no lore.

That’s one way to think of it, but neither you nor the OP has established why the Devs taking the time and money it would cost to add these NPCs and rewriting the lore benefits the game. Time and money that they could be spending on making playable content rather than pointless changes.

In other words, you’re saying we shouldn’t have asura, norn, or sylvari in the game, because the existing ‘logic and lore’ of the source material (the original Guild Wars
game) had to be rewritten to make room for them, wasting dev-ine time and energy.

/facepalm

I have argued that crossbreeds could exist, and have offered various ways and means by which they might come into being. What I haven’t done is suggest that they
should exist. I’d ask where you came up with that, but we already know, don’t we.

Furthermore, if Tyrians were meant to fly, they’d have wings! So there. :-P

You know what, we already know all that. We already know that this is a fantasy game and that the Devs could wave a magic wand and add potions that allow conception or ret con the lore at a whim.

That part is obvious to everyone and really didn’t need an explanation.

The objection is that it’s not in the lore. That it’s not wanted for the Devs to act in a deus ex machina manner to bring about such lore altering changes. And that it’s not wanted for them to waste dev time and money to make such a pointless change.

That is, after all, the point and question of the thread. Whether we want it, not whether a dev could wave a magic wand and make it possible.

People were saying it was impossible.

CLEARLY we meant “impossible from a breeding standpoint”. Not sure why anyone would have to argue “magic” against that. I mean, this is a virtual world not a real one…its not like people thought that someone would have to literally try to breed interracial beings or anything.

Here’s what is clear to me:

To say that anything is impossible in a world jam-packed full of impossible things, with more and more impossible things being added on a regular basis, is, well, nonsense. Clearly.

In the real world, clearly, anyone trying to swim in full plate would sink to the bottom and likely drown. In Tyria, however, people in full plate can outswim a sockeye.

Why is that?

Besides, of course, the fact that Tyria isn’t a real world subject to real world physics and all that boring mundane stuff. /wink

In Tyria, put on a cow costume. Suddenly, real cows don’t know you’re not a cow! And you can train them to fight against predators. Clearly, communicating self-defense techniques to cows (some quite stinky, no doubt) while wearing a cow costume should be patently impossible. But somehow, for some reason, it’s not impossible — in Tyria!

Why? What sets Tyria apart from our dear old Mother Earth?

Well…

Apart from the whole it’s all just make believe aspect of it, I’m going to say it must surely be because of all the magic. Magic actually works in Tyria. Magic makes the impossible possible in Tyria, on a daily basis. See also: asura science.

So. Why would anyone argue magic against something that is so clearly ‘impossible’?

It’s simple.

To disregard magic and its ‘counter-impossibility effects’ (to coin a phrase) in a world overflowing with magic, in a world that couldn’t even exist in its current state without magic, is not only illogical, but would seem to be, based on the evidence at hand in this very thread, an exercise in willful ignorance.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Tachenon.5270:

Amaimon.7823:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Tachenon.5270:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Tachenon.5270:

Swagger.1459:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Evolution is NOT about wants. It’s about change in response to the surrounding environment, but there has to be a “path” possible towards this change.

So you’re saying that a charr mating with an asura is due to a change in the environment? Well wouldn’t you know it, Primodus is awakening. When his rein of terror blankets the land in death, nature will call forth a new type of hero. One born of the fires of war (charr) with the intellect to succeed (asura). And there you have it: Charrsura.

Basic Fantasy 101: When a foe is too powerful, you power up. Think of it like Goku’s fusion technique.

Hybrid species are not happening in gw2 for a multitude of reasons.

You mean like centaurs?

Centaurs, in Tyria, are not hybrid. They have humanoid parts, the torso, but the entire rest of their bodies are beastial in nature. Their heads are more similar to goats than humans, even than horses.

The only creature that can truly be considered a hybrid is most likely the Norn, who were created by Koda magic more than evolution. It’s more than a little unclear how they were made and if humans were involved in any way. But even they are not compatible with humans, primarily due to an incredibly increased body temperature that would kill off human sperm, and would probably damage a human egg as well.

You seem to be referring to the centaurs from Elona, which are a three-way between horses, gazelles, and big cats. However, see —

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Centaur

— for the Central Tyrian variety.

No, actually I’m I’m talking about the Centaurs in Kryta. I’ve never been to Elona. Hell, just looking at the pictures in that wiki you can see they don’t have human heads. Not at all human.

The krytan centaurs look almost more minos than equine. The elonian centaurs look like gazelles. Conclusion, its inconceivable a human was ever involved in either

Torso? Arms? Hands? If not human, then what? Norn? Those blue guys whose name I can never remember? Largos. Are there any other species in Tyria with such distinctly human-like upper bodies? Besides sylvari, that is, who are still babes in the wood, so to speak, on the evolutionary front. In any event, I wouldn’t say human involvement was, ya know, inconceivable…

Jotuns, ogres, ettins, harpies, Giants and Fleshreavers. Male Charr.

As well as others I’ve undoubtably forgotten.

The “human upper body type” is so common that nothing can be deduced about a creature’s ancestors simply by having it. It’s a design used with many different, unrelated creatures that have hands.

I wouldn’t include charr — the proportions are quite different. Torsos and arms both much longer, and that neck…

Edit: Ah, you mentioned harpies. Very interesting creatures. All female. Hmm.

From the GW2 wiki: How they reproduced is unknown, though some harpies are seen seducing males of other species (such as grawl), and they are known to lay large eggs, large enough to hold a typical Young Harpy.

Looks like nature did find a way, after all.

Tachenon.5270:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Tachenon.5270:

Amaimon.7823:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Tachenon.5270:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Tachenon.5270:

Swagger.1459:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Evolution is NOT about wants. It’s about change in response to the surrounding environment, but there has to be a “path” possible towards this change.

So you’re saying that a charr mating with an asura is due to a change in the environment? Well wouldn’t you know it, Primodus is awakening. When his rein of
terror blankets the land in death, nature will call forth a new type of hero. One born of the fires of war (charr) with the intellect to succeed (asura). And there you have it: Charrsura.

Basic Fantasy 101: When a foe is too powerful, you power up. Think of it like Goku’s fusion technique.

Hybrid species are not happening in gw2 for a multitude of reasons.

You mean like centaurs?

Centaurs, in Tyria, are not hybrid. They have humanoid parts, the torso, but the entire
rest of their bodies are beastial in nature. Their heads are more similar to goats than humans, even than horses.

The only creature that can truly be considered a hybrid is most likely the Norn, who were created by Koda magic more than evolution. It’s more than a little unclear how they were made and if humans were involved in any way. But even they are not compatible with humans, primarily due to an incredibly increased body temperature that would kill off human sperm, and would probably damage a human egg as well.

You seem to be referring to the centaurs from Elona, which are a three-way between horses, gazelles, and big cats. However, see —

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Centaur

— for the Central Tyrian variety.

No, actually I’m I’m talking about the Centaurs in Kryta. I’ve never been to Elona. Hell, just looking at the pictures in that wiki you can see they don’t have human heads. Not at all human.

The krytan centaurs look almost more minos than equine. The elonian centaurs look like gazelles. Conclusion, its inconceivable a human was ever involved in either

Torso? Arms? Hands? If not human, then what? Norn? Those blue guys whose name I can never remember? Largos. Are there any other species in Tyria with such distinctly human-like upper bodies? Besides sylvari, that is, who are still babes in the wood, so to speak, on the evolutionary front. In any event, I wouldn’t say human involvement was, ya know, inconceivable…

Jotuns, ogres, ettins, harpies, Giants and Fleshreavers. Male Charr.

As well as others I’ve undoubtably forgotten.

The “human upper body type” is so common that nothing can be deduced about a creature’s ancestors simply by having it. It’s a design used with many different, unrelated creatures that have hands.

I wouldn’t include charr — the proportions are quite different. Torsos and arms both
much longer, and that neck…

No doubt. But that’s beside the point (and nitpicky)

The point is that a human like upper body is a common trope seen in many unrelated species. It’s so common that you don’t really see it unless you start actively looking.

Harpies would have been granted a special exemption, one might say, because it’s the game being true to the Earth legends about harpies.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harpy

One race given a exemption that’s tied into the lore of the race due to history and what people expect is…. expected.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Tachenon.5270:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Tachenon.5270:

Amaimon.7823:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Tachenon.5270:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Tachenon.5270:

Swagger.1459:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Evolution is NOT about wants. It’s about change in response to the surrounding environment, but there has to be a “path” possible towards this change.

So you’re saying that a charr mating with an asura is due to a change in the environment? Well wouldn’t you know it, Primodus is awakening. When his rein of
terror blankets the land in death, nature will call forth a new type of hero. One born of the fires of war (charr) with the intellect to succeed (asura). And there you have it: Charrsura.

Basic Fantasy 101: When a foe is too powerful, you power up. Think of it like Goku’s fusion technique.

Hybrid species are not happening in gw2 for a multitude of reasons.

You mean like centaurs?

Centaurs, in Tyria, are not hybrid. They have humanoid parts, the torso, but the entire
rest of their bodies are beastial in nature. Their heads are more similar to goats than humans, even than horses.

The only creature that can truly be considered a hybrid is most likely the Norn, who were created by Koda magic more than evolution. It’s more than a little unclear how they were made and if humans were involved in any way. But even they are not compatible with humans, primarily due to an incredibly increased body temperature that would kill off human sperm, and would probably damage a human egg as well.

You seem to be referring to the centaurs from Elona, which are a three-way between horses, gazelles, and big cats. However, see —

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Centaur

— for the Central Tyrian variety.

No, actually I’m I’m talking about the Centaurs in Kryta. I’ve never been to Elona. Hell, just looking at the pictures in that wiki you can see they don’t have human heads. Not at all human.

The krytan centaurs look almost more minos than equine. The elonian centaurs look like gazelles. Conclusion, its inconceivable a human was ever involved in either

Torso? Arms? Hands? If not human, then what? Norn? Those blue guys whose name I can never remember? Largos. Are there any other species in Tyria with such distinctly human-like upper bodies? Besides sylvari, that is, who are still babes in the wood, so to speak, on the evolutionary front. In any event, I wouldn’t say human involvement was, ya know, inconceivable…

Jotuns, ogres, ettins, harpies, Giants and Fleshreavers. Male Charr.

As well as others I’ve undoubtably forgotten.

The “human upper body type” is so common that nothing can be deduced about a creature’s ancestors simply by having it. It’s a design used with many different, unrelated creatures that have hands.

I wouldn’t include charr — the proportions are quite different. Torsos and arms both
much longer, and that neck…

No doubt. But that’s beside the point (and nitpicky)

The point is that a human like upper body is a common trope seen in many unrelated species. It’s so common that you don’t really see it unless you start actively looking.

Yup. For pretty much the same reasons most (but not all!) aliens in the old science fiction films and tv shows were humanoid. Just easier to do. Alas! My arguments in favor of horta as a playable race over in STO were doomed from the outset. “They have no hands! How can they hold phasers without hands?” “They can’t wear uniforms! How can they be crewmen without uniforms?” And so on and so forth. And yet, DC comics had a horta crewman in their Star Trek run. And in the novels there was an entire ship run by horta. Imagination: making the impossible possible since the dawn of time!

Tachenon.5270:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Tachenon.5270:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Tachenon.5270:

Amaimon.7823:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Tachenon.5270:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Tachenon.5270:

Swagger.1459:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Evolution is NOT about wants. It’s about change in response to the surrounding environment, but there has to be a “path” possible towards this change.

So you’re saying that a charr mating with an asura is due to a change in the environment? Well wouldn’t you know it, Primodus is awakening. When his rein of
terror blankets the land in death, nature will call forth a new type of hero. One born of the fires of war (charr) with the intellect to succeed (asura). And there you have it: Charrsura.

Basic Fantasy 101: When a foe is too powerful, you power up. Think of it like Goku’s fusion technique.

Hybrid species are not happening in gw2 for a multitude of reasons.

You mean like centaurs?

Centaurs, in Tyria, are not hybrid. They have humanoid parts, the torso, but the entire
rest of their bodies are beastial in nature. Their heads are more similar to goats than humans, even than horses.

The only creature that can truly be considered a hybrid is most likely the Norn, who were created by Koda magic more than evolution. It’s more than a little unclear how they were made and if humans were involved in any way. But even they are not compatible with humans, primarily due to an incredibly increased body temperature that would kill off human sperm, and would probably damage a human egg as well.

You seem to be referring to the centaurs from Elona, which are a three-way between horses, gazelles, and big cats. However, see —

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Centaur

— for the Central Tyrian variety.

No, actually I’m I’m talking about the Centaurs in Kryta. I’ve never been to Elona. Hell, just looking at the pictures in that wiki you can see they don’t have human heads. Not at all human.

The krytan centaurs look almost more minos than equine. The elonian centaurs look like gazelles. Conclusion, its inconceivable a human was ever involved in either

Torso? Arms? Hands? If not human, then what? Norn? Those blue guys whose name I can never remember? Largos. Are there any other species in Tyria with such distinctly human-like upper bodies? Besides sylvari, that is, who are still babes in the wood, so to speak, on the evolutionary front. In any event, I wouldn’t say human involvement was, ya know, inconceivable…

Jotuns, ogres, ettins, harpies, Giants and Fleshreavers. Male Charr.

As well as others I’ve undoubtably forgotten.

The “human upper body type” is so common that nothing can be deduced about a creature’s ancestors simply by having it. It’s a design used with many different, unrelated creatures that have hands.

I wouldn’t include charr — the proportions are quite different. Torsos and arms both
much longer, and that neck…

No doubt. But that’s beside the point (and nitpicky)

The point is that a human like upper body is a common trope seen in many unrelated species. It’s so common that you don’t really see it unless you start actively looking.

Yup. For pretty much the same reasons most (but not all!) aliens in the old science fiction films and tv shows were humanoid. Just easier to do. Alas! My arguments in favor of horta as a playable race over in STO were doomed from the outset. “They have no hands! How can they hold phasers without hands?” “They can’t wear uniforms! How can they be crewmen without uniforms?” And so on and so forth. And yet, DC comics had a horta crewman in their Star Trek run. And in the novels there was an entire ship run by horta. Imagination: making the impossible possible since the dawn of time!

Ok, I’m not sure how this relates to a discussion of whether centaurs having a “human like” upper torso says anything about centaur ancestry, but thanks for sharing.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Tachenon.5270:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Tachenon.5270:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Tachenon.5270:

Amaimon.7823:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Tachenon.5270:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Tachenon.5270:

Swagger.1459:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Evolution is NOT about wants. It’s about change in response to the surrounding environment, but there has to be a “path” possible towards this change.

So you’re saying that a charr mating with an asura is due to a change in the environment? Well wouldn’t you know it, Primodus is awakening. When his rein of
terror blankets the land in death, nature will call forth a new type of hero. One born of the fires of war (charr) with the intellect to succeed (asura). And there you have it: Charrsura.

Basic Fantasy 101: When a foe is too powerful, you power up. Think of it like Goku’s fusion technique.

Hybrid species are not happening in gw2 for a multitude of reasons.

You mean like centaurs?

Centaurs, in Tyria, are not hybrid. They have humanoid parts, the torso, but the entire
rest of their bodies are beastial in nature. Their heads are more similar to goats than humans, even than horses.

The only creature that can truly be considered a hybrid is most likely the Norn, who were created by Koda magic more than evolution. It’s more than a little unclear how they were made and if humans were involved in any way. But even they are not compatible with humans, primarily due to an incredibly increased body temperature that would kill off human sperm, and would probably damage a human egg as well.

You seem to be referring to the centaurs from Elona, which are a three-way between horses, gazelles, and big cats. However, see —

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Centaur

— for the Central Tyrian variety.

No, actually I’m I’m talking about the Centaurs in Kryta. I’ve never been to Elona. Hell, just looking at the pictures in that wiki you can see they don’t have human heads. Not at all human.

The krytan centaurs look almost more minos than equine. The elonian centaurs look like gazelles. Conclusion, its inconceivable a human was ever involved in either

Torso? Arms? Hands? If not human, then what? Norn? Those blue guys whose name I can never remember? Largos. Are there any other species in Tyria with such distinctly human-like upper bodies? Besides sylvari, that is, who are still babes in the wood, so to speak, on the evolutionary front. In any event, I wouldn’t say human involvement was, ya know, inconceivable…

Jotuns, ogres, ettins, harpies, Giants and Fleshreavers. Male Charr.

As well as others I’ve undoubtably forgotten.

The “human upper body type” is so common that nothing can be deduced about a creature’s ancestors simply by having it. It’s a design used with many different, unrelated creatures that have hands.

I wouldn’t include charr — the proportions are quite different. Torsos and arms both
much longer, and that neck…

No doubt. But that’s beside the point (and nitpicky)

The point is that a human like upper body is a common trope seen in many unrelated species. It’s so common that you don’t really see it unless you start actively looking.

Yup. For pretty much the same reasons most (but not all!) aliens in the old science fiction films and tv shows were humanoid. Just easier to do. Alas! My arguments in favor of horta as a playable race over in STO were doomed from the outset. “They have no hands! How can they hold phasers without hands?” “They can’t wear uniforms! How can they be crewmen without uniforms?” And so on and so forth. And yet, DC comics had a horta crewman in their Star Trek run. And in the novels there was an entire ship run by horta. Imagination: making the impossible possible since the dawn of time!

Ok, I’m not sure how this relates to a discussion of whether centaurs having a “human like” upper torso says anything about centaur ancestry, but thanks for sharing.

Just trying to be friendly and inject a little humor and humanity into this serious business topic. My bad. I won’t do it again.

I’ll be covering two points of view here; a personal one and a more objective one in regards to the game.

Personally, I don’t think inter-species/bi-racial NPCs should exist in the game for lore reasons. As has been already discussed, the playable races are very different genetically and it wouldn’t make sense. Sylvari don’t even appear to be mammals and can’t make offspring anyway.
That being said, there are some species that are closer imo where it could be more likely. For example Kodan/Norn, Quaggans/Pinipal… I’m not sure how related the frog races are but perhaps there’s possibility for them too. I would imagine that they would be infertile beings and may be ridden with problems- possibly even ostracised.

Finally, I guess lore-wise it could be explained by either a mad scientist/inquest asura experimenting, or a more “legit” asura trying to give a bi-racial couple a baby with the power of science and DNA splicing.

So that brings me on to the more objective viewpoint.
-What benefit would they have to the game?
-How much time would be required to write their backstory, design and create their unique models etc? And for what purpose?
-A “biracial” NPC might be interesting, but what would they bring to the table that another monoracial NPC couldn’t?

I’m thinking that the only time A-net would spend so much time to write in such a character would be to play a key role in the story, for example a new member of the Dragon’s Watch (or whatever it’s called now). But the niche for such a character would have to be oddly specific, and if they needed a flawed character that required a lot of character development with a tumultuous past… it wouldn’t need to be specifically a half-race.

You all realize you’re being played right? OP does this like every month or so.

CETheLucid.3964:

You all realize you’re being played right? OP does this like every month or so.

Of course- I think most people do.

And yes, OP is a bit of a troll (I think even a self-confirmed one at that), but there are always interesting discussions to be made.

Also, maybe what the OP doesn’t realise is that he’s being trolled back when people are taking his suggestions “seriously” cough

For the most races, the current canon answer is that they cannot interbreed. For sylvari, it goes further however – they can’t have kids period, as they are drones with no inbuilt biological species propagation method. The only one that can have children is the Pale Tree (well, and the other potential trees out there), and it happens in a way that’s completely incompatible with the other races.

“magic” and “asuratech” could possibly bridge the gap between other races, but that would still not allow for sylvari-whatever crossbreeds.

In both cases i see no reason why devs might want to change the current status quo.

I suppose that what is most clear to me on the subject of interspecies breeding between the player character races is that the company who owns them has said that, in the context of the in game lore and capabilities of said races, it is impossible.

Anyone can choose to speculate and fantasize about theoretical possibilities to the contrary but, as of now, the only definitive source has said not possible.

Now I would laugh at an Asura dressed up as a Charr cub to study their society … as long as the adult Charr acknowledge it’s an Asura and they are letting him get away with the charade because they think it’s funny.

I mean, imagine the coding implications. What racial skills would you get upon character creation? How would personal stories be changed?

I’m all for mixing of species (a norn-asuran would be pretty weird, but it could be the cutest giant in all of Tyria), but from a technical standpoint, where would the devs have time to come up with such a system?