Guild Wars 2

Galen Grey.4709:

Xenon.4537:

You skipped over my question. Anet is not incentivised to produce an expansion. Yes they would get more money and players if they did, but they already have a steady revenue stream. It’s easier for them to just nickle and dime us with the systems they already have in place.

And yes, giving the players what they want is in their best interest. But how do they know what players want? There’s a massive thread with over 1500 replies asking for Cantha that’s been around since launch and is still actively bumped every week. But where’s Cantha? All I see is gem store gem store gem store.

They seem to think that all players want is what they are currently paying for: gems and knick knacks to spend gems on.

No they’re not incentivized to produce an expansion but is that necessarly a bad thing? Personally I think its a good thing. Why?

Well lets say they go with the expansion business model. That means they need to release an expansion as quickly as possible in order to maximize their profit. If they release an expansion per year its more profitable for them then releasing one every 2 years right? An expansion needs to be pretty good, they cant just rush it so what would that lead to? Focusing all of their resources to produce an expansion. Which means if it takes them 1 year or even perhaps 2 years to produce an expansion thats 1 – 2 years we’d have with minimal new content and how do you keep people busy during those 1 – 2 years? well most games do repeatable dungeons and stuff which is what generally drives me away from those games.

With the current business model time isnt a major issue (it still is but not so much) they can afford to release new content every 2 weeks and take say 4 years to finish all the work it would take to create a single expansion. I have a feeling thats exactly what they did. Creating new zones is laborious and they needed time. Its now been 2 years and they’re ready to deliver at least some of them which we got enough hints to think this is actually gonna happen in Season 2 of the living story. Now lets assume they release a new zone every month they’d finish releasing a new continent size of zones in another 2 years but all the while we’d have new content to play every 2 weeks and a new zone every month.

Now that would have taken them perhaps twice as long if they had just focused on an expansion but at the same time we didnt have to live a 1-2 years repeating the same stuff. If thats actually what they’re going to do, for me personally I’d find it a much better model. But we have to see what happens in the next season of living story to be sure for now its just speculation.

Those repeating dungeons might scare people away but so does the LS. Maybe not you but many others.

A good expansion can easily keep people busy for a year. Imagine if all the dyes would be as specific color rewarded or drop from specific content. Do the same with only the mini’s they initially released with and many of the skins.. That sort of horizontal progression could keep people easily busy for a year or more. Part of it would indeed be repeating dungeons or what not.

So if they released once a year they should easily be able to keep people busy. Best is also to have one bigger patch inbetween (so at 6 months).

I don’t know why you seem to think we would get an map a month. You are however correct, to deliver the same amount as a expansion would give they would have to indeed give us a map a month. In S1 they failed doing so. Also I’m not sure why you think that when focusing on an expansion would take them longer to make the expansion then it would take them this way.

Rauderi.8706:

Not to say that real money exchanges are doomed to hurt a game’s progression, but the game needs to release content that brings players to the game, not just the game’s store. Give meaning to the items on sale behind gameplay and lore, and give alternate versions through actual content participation and challenges.

While not a sterling example, I can remember where I got my Desert Rose back piece from, because I was having fun on Sanctum Sprint, then opened the RNG reward and saw it there. A minor Squee-moment. We need more squee-moments.

Hit the nail right on the head there. I don’t even bother with most LS stuff now because getting something “cool” and LS related is next to impossible. As a fan of the game and a daily player, I can’t even express how excited I would be to get something cool by PLAYING THE GAME. I remember the only cool drop I did get. The one time I defeated Teq and got the wings of the sunless. I cherish those wings.

Bring people to your game, ANet. Make it fun and they will come. I don’t think it’s enticing to say “here’s a boring game with a gem shop so you can look pretty whilst doing boring stuff for no reward.” Huh? Ya.

Devata.6589:

But even then it would effect the game in a negative way. Not for you as you obviously have no problem with grinding gold. It does however then still effect the game for people that prefer to work directly towards the items in the game.

This is where the argument of gold —> gems can be made. If there were viable methods for a solo player to farm gold in their free time, not requiring pre-planning with a group, or risking a PUG, or being held to a specific rotation schedule (boss timers), then you could still work for specific items in the game--in a sense. But I assume you are talking about something like “oh man, look at those sweet gloves! I have to do X dungeon and kill X boss while naked to get it? Whatever, let’s give it a shot!” versus “Oh man look at those sweet gloves! 400 gems? Alright, well better start running dungeons and killing world bosses to save up gold to convert!”

There are effectively two ways to get items in this game (not including dungeon sets / LS achievement items).

1) Use CC to buy gems —> buy item. Or use CC to buy gems —> convert to gold —> buy from TP.

2) Farm dungeons/bosses —> convert gold to gems —> buy item. OR farm dungeons/bosses —> buy item from TP.

~3 sorta) TP flipping, but I don’t include this as a real method.

Either use your CC or farm dungeons. These are your options essentially and it is clear Anet really wants you to choose option #1, and the more they push it, the more negative it will become.

I can’t really knock them for trying to increase profits, that’s how companies work. But they are looking at the short-term, not the long-term. The more they drive people to the gem-store, the more they drive people away eventually. Sure they will post some nice gains for a number of months, but people will seriously get fed up with it. They need to either ease up on it or risk the game failing.

Xenon.4537:

Let me clarify my concern. Anet’s main revenue streams are the gem store and the initial purchase of the game (the box as it were). If we want to see substantial content added to the game, it would need to be part of Anet’s revenue stream in some way. But it isnt. Anet doesn’t need to really go out of their way to add content. They get money by sitting around and letting players convert gems to gold. How does cash -> gem -> gold incentivise Anet to produce an expansion pack? Again this has nothing to do with the state of the in-game economy.

Because if they don’t do anything the population will decrease at some point, even collapse, without new content. That’s their incentive.

Problem I see it like the loss of the trinity, the notion that box expansions is the only way to deliver content is a notion some in the player base aren’t willing to surrender lightly. And paid box expansions as a way to solely finance the continued development of the game. But that’s not what ANet chose to do. And they’ve been clear about it. Yet the insistence that they are wrong and only if they would just listen to “you” everything will be so much better is borderline delusional.

Some business and design decisions simply can’t be radically altered. We aren’t talking about the agility of a helicopter but the agility of a supertanker. They’ve committed to LS 2 and an endless stream of items coming and going from the Gem Shop. The only way something significant will change is if players stop buying gems. Maybe they have an expansion in their back pocket but I wouldn’t be surprised that they didn’t and a drop in Gem Shop purchases lead directly to a downward spiral in the game.

Behellagh.1468:

…The only way something significant will change is if players stop buying gems…

Aaaand we’re right back to the whole point of this thread.

Devata.6589:

nexxe.7081:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Thus, the ratio of Gems to Gold and Gold to Gems is not indicative of player population.

I disagree. It’s very indicative of the population. Just look at that graph above. Prices were very low, because there were literally millions of players during, and after, launch. Then it continually declined, hence the megaservers (basically a merge).

If there was more people playing, they would definitely be buying gems and selling them for gold, but that’s not what’s happening.

Anyway, i don’t want to steer off-topic into a population argument. The fact is, that not enough players are buying gems, and/or, selling them for gold. This is because of a variety of reasons. The two biggest factors being, that the population dropped off, and the other, is that gold isn’t really needed for anything in game, except for Legendary items. Just look on the Trading Post, and you’ll see every item under the Top Valued Items section, is a Legendary.

Anet needs to make more valuable items worth gold, other than a Legendary item. This would give more incentive for people to convert gems to gold, and bring the ratio down to a more reasonable conversion.

Instead, they just pump out content exclusive to the Gem Store only, which is really limiting their customers, and driving the rest away. People would rather earn their items in-game, instead of with their wallet. I could understand if both Gem Store items, and items earned in-game, were balancing each other out, but that’s not what’s happening.

The items that are earned in-game, are single-piece back slots, or gauntlets, or minis, or tonics, or boosts, or recipes, etc. These things aren’t going to entice players to stick around for the long term. There needs to be full armor sets, like the dungeon sets, added to the game. Sets that don’t require gems. This is where GW2 falls short. A wasted opportunity.

“the other, is that gold isn’t really needed for anything in game, except for Legendary items.”
You must be playing another game. In GW2 everything is based on gold. Most special skins you can’t really work towards to directly (mainly because it are all very rare world drops) but are best obtainable with gold. Same for many mats. It’s of course not strange as that’s the way they like to indeed to sell more gems for gold.

If gold is only needed for the not-so-legendary weapon items, what is used for buying harveting/gathering tools and everything else in the game, besides the gem-store crap.

Xenon.4537:

Behellagh.1468:

…The only way something significant will change is if players stop buying gems…

Aaaand we’re right back to the whole point of this thread.

Aaaand you completely glossed over my point that that tactic could just as likely sink the game in it’s entirety. So you’re advocating “do what we want or everyone’s characters die”.

As a Pay-to-Play game, Guild Wars 2’s primary profit should be coming from people buying the game, not investing in the gem store. The way to bring more people into the game is to make it more fun to actually play.

As much as it is driving some players from the game, it is also training/conditioning/brainwashing others. They want them to think of this as the norm. As more and more people fall out of the game, those that are left become more and more tolerant of the status quo. This is their Ultimate GoaI believe. Not just raise profits in the short term, but have a player base that expects and demands content for the Gem Store.

There are many here, even in this thread spouting “The game NEEDS this.” Those are the players Anet wants in their game. Not the Gold→Gems people, and certainly not the players wanting more unlocks available In-Game.

EgonVenkman.1907:

As much as it is driving some players from the game, it is also training/conditioning/brainwashing others. They want them to think of this as the norm. As more and more people fall out of the game, those that are left become more and more tolerant of the status quo. This is their Ultimate GoaI believe. Not just raise profits in the short term, but have a player base that expects and demands content for the Gem Store.

There are many here, even in this thread spouting “The game NEEDS this.” Those are the players Anet wants in their game. Not the Gold->Gems people, and certainly not the players wanting more unlocks available In-Game.

I agree, that’s why I even though I no longer play I still read the forums and chime in. Voices of reason need to be spoken so they can get heard or else the BS becomes the status quo.

The thing I don’t get is how they don’t realize that they would probably make more money by making it possible to grind for a drop rather than buy/grind gold. Players want to have fun in the game and more players would be here to buy the crap in the gem store

Draknar.5748:

Devata.6589:

But even then it would effect the game in a negative way. Not for you as you obviously have no problem with grinding gold. It does however then still effect the game for people that prefer to work directly towards the items in the game.

This is where the argument of gold —> gems can be made. If there were viable methods for a solo player to farm gold in their free time, not requiring pre-planning with a group, or risking a PUG, or being held to a specific rotation schedule (boss timers), then you could still work for specific items in the game--in a sense. But I assume you are talking about something like “oh man, look at those sweet gloves! I have to do X dungeon and kill X boss while naked to get it? Whatever, let’s give it a shot!” versus “Oh man look at those sweet gloves! 400 gems? Alright, well better start running dungeons and killing world bosses to save up gold to convert!”

There are effectively two ways to get items in this game (not including dungeon sets / LS achievement items).

1) Use CC to buy gems —> buy item. Or use CC to buy gems --> convert to gold —> buy from TP.

2) Farm dungeons/bosses —> convert gold to gems --> buy item. OR farm dungeons/bosses —> buy item from TP.

~3 sorta) TP flipping, but I don’t include this as a real method.

Either use your CC or farm dungeons. These are your options essentially and it is clear Anet really wants you to choose option #1, and the more they push it, the more negative it will become.

I can’t really knock them for trying to increase profits, that’s how companies work. But they are looking at the short-term, not the long-term. The more they drive people to the gem-store, the more they drive people away eventually. Sure they will post some nice gains for a number of months, but people will seriously get fed up with it. They need to either ease up on it or risk the game failing.

“then you could still work for specific items in the game—in a sense. ” But not in a fun way. Maybe thats hard to understand for you as you are obviously fine with grinding gold but there are many people (like me) who don’t consider it fun to grind gold to then buy an item. That specific reward being able to drop from content is what make the content more fun and re-playable. It also gives the item more value.

I simply do not find it fun to grind gold to buy the reward. I might in fact be doing the same dungeon over and over again but if I do it to grind gold to then buy x items I would consider it not fun and the item less interesting because it’s just some generic item you can get in many ways (it’s not mainly a reward for being able to do that dungeon). If I did the dungeons the same amount of times for a change for the item to drop I have more fun in the dungeon and would find the drop more interesting. It would have more value. Besides the gold-way pushes you also to whatever content has the best gold-return value while the direct method puses you to all types of different content.

Your example of “while naked” would look like an achievement reward what is also nice (If not only temporary available!) but those sort of items would be account-bound and so not traidable. I have no problem if grinding gold for an item is ALSO possible so having them as an RNG dorp is also just fine (then they can still end op on the TP for those who prefer to grind gold). But an achievement reward once in a while is also nice yes.

However yes I rather have “ok that item drops from that boss, lets start killing that boss”in stead of. That item cost x gold or y gems to lets go do anything to get the gold to buy it.

Indeed what the do not is not good for the long-term life-spawn from the game. It’s what I also have been saying for over a year now however I have a feeling that we already getting into that ‘long-term’ effect meaning we are now at a moment where it already starts to push away people that might never come back already having that negative effect. So if they go to do anything about it they better do it fast and have already caused some irreversible damage. A year ago they could have still prevented that.

Behellagh.1468:

Xenon.4537:

Behellagh.1468:

…The only way something significant will change is if players stop buying gems…

Aaaand we’re right back to the whole point of this thread.

Aaaand you completely glossed over my point that that tactic could just as likely sink the game in it’s entirety. So you’re advocating “do what we want or everyone’s characters die”.

The complains had have been coming in for a long time, at least for a year. So they did have had enough time to make a change. Also a tanker can change it’s course in a year. Eventually if a company makes bad decisions it can get into problems. I rather have the risk the game would fail with the possibility it went into the good direction then the assurance it would not fail but would also stay going in the current direction. Besides I do feel that the current approach is also bad for the long-term life-spawn of the game.

Oow and I don’t think they can’t deliver expansion-like content with the LS (even if so far they failed to do so while saying they would), I think it is possible to do it that way. It’s the negative side-effects of doing it the cash-shop way that I and other people have a problem with. Nice a new zone, so I can go there to grind gold as well? Or a new race to grind gold with?

If less gem-sales is the only thing they might listen to (so much those suggestions and complains that have been coming in for over a year don’t seem to do much) I might hope it’s something people indeed would use to try and change things. I for one never did buy a gem to prevent them from going this way in the first place. While buying a CE edition of the game to do put my money where my mouth is.

EgonVenkman.1907:

As much as it is driving some players from the game, it is also training/conditioning/brainwashing others. They want them to think of this as the norm. As more and more people fall out of the game, those that are left become more and more tolerant of the status quo. This is their Ultimate GoaI believe. Not just raise profits in the short term, but have a player base that expects and demands content for the Gem Store.

There are many here, even in this thread spouting “The game NEEDS this.” Those are the players Anet wants in their game. Not the Gold->Gems people, and certainly not the players wanting more unlocks available In-Game.

With the current model they use you are correct (or at least that thats they group they end up with in the long-term) but the question is if that group is big enough for a good income or getting money from the much bigger group would not eventually make them more money even if it maybe would be less money per person.

Lobo Dela Noche.5127:

EgonVenkman.1907:

As much as it is driving some players from the game, it is also training/conditioning/brainwashing others. They want them to think of this as the norm. As more and more people fall out of the game, those that are left become more and more tolerant of the status quo. This is their Ultimate GoaI believe. Not just raise profits in the short term, but have a player base that expects and demands content for the Gem Store.

There are many here, even in this thread spouting “The game NEEDS this.” Those are the players Anet wants in their game. Not the Gold->Gems people, and certainly not the players wanting more unlocks available In-Game.

I agree, that’s why I even though I no longer play I still read the forums and chime in. Voices of reason need to be spoken so they can get heard or else the BS becomes the status quo.

The thing I don’t get is how they don’t realize that they would probably make more money by making it possible to grind for a drop rather than buy/grind gold. Players want to have fun in the game and more players would be here to buy the crap in the gem store

The problem they would then have is that if they make everything available in the game what would there be left in the cash-shop and why would people buy it? Not enough likely. thats why that only works if they get there main income from another source, not the cash-shop. A sub-model is not going to work for this game so then expansions are the other option.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

To be fair, there was no mention of Gem exchange to Gold in last week’s Gem Store announcement. So, it’s not been every time.

ftfy

Herr der Friedhoefe.2490:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

To be fair, there was no mention of Gem exchange to Gold in last week’s Gem Store announcement. So, it’s not been every time.

ftfy

Lol, this thread is so far off the OP that I don’t think it matters. =)

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Herr der Friedhoefe.2490:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

To be fair, there was no mention of Gem exchange to Gold in last week’s Gem Store announcement. So, it’s not been every time.

ftfy

Lol, this thread is so far off the OP that I don’t think it matters. =)

It’s still very much on topic, but the title did not match the OP.

Behellagh.1468:

nexxe.7081:

Lil Puppy.5216:

Well apparently it’s working cause the gold to gem market is dropping like rain right now.

I wouldn’t exaggerate that much. My quote above, from earlier, said 50g for 507 gems. I just checked right now, and it’s 50g for 548 gems. Not much of a difference. lol.

You keep using the wrong conversion rate. The Gold to Gem rate isn’t the same as the Gem to Gold rate. The Gem to Gold rate is only 72.25% of the Gold to Gem rate.

50g at this time is around 637 Gems.

And how much gold will 637 gems get you?

Rebound.3409:

A game that relies on cosmetics as it’s endgame, and makes it almost impossible to buy without micro-transactions, in my book it’s called “p2w”

Other games have gear as endgame..this one has looks as endgame.

EXACTLY.

Vol.7601:

JustTrogdor.7892:

Vol.7601:

It’s no coincidence that pretty much every gold-making farm in the game has been nerfed.

I’ve gone from making 15g/h to nothing.

That’s funny you should say that since you were such a fan of the Queensdale train nerf.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/GOODBYE-QUEENSDALE-TRAIN/first#post4040240

Vol.7601:

As a former hardcore farmer, this is the best change Anet had made in a long time.
They should have done it sooner, but it’s done.

If you were farming Queensdale for gold, you’re playing the whole game wrong.

There is no wrong way to playing games, except for cheating and exploiting.

I believe they will Not allow Gem store items to appear on the TP. It is possible that since the discrepancy between how Much a player spends with in game Gold for gems, and the amount a Player spends In gems for In game Gold is pretty large…. if players could sell gem store skins On the TP…they would be cutting Anet out of the trade.

A player uaing in game Gold, could find a middle ground with a Player selling the gem shop item in Gold… so that the Gem player earns MORE In Gold.. and the Gold player ends up with More product than he might have gotten had he simply purchased gems for gold directly.

I think, that the difference between gem to Gold exchange rate, and Gold to gem exchange rate, generates a profit for Gw2. A profit that might disappear if players were able to cut anet out of the exchange, By allowing gem store skins and items to sell on the TP.

Behellagh.1468:

Xenon.4537:

Behellagh.1468:

…The only way something significant will change is if players stop buying gems…

Aaaand we’re right back to the whole point of this thread.

Aaaand you completely glossed over my point that that tactic could just as likely sink the game in it’s entirety. So you’re advocating “do what we want or everyone’s characters die”.

I believe the idea is communicating your displeasure, by Not rewarding them. if people that are not happy, show their displeasure by ceasing to spend Money in the gem store, i think the devs will get the message faster, and better, than if they just post it On the forums.

Forum posts are just words…. stop spending money in the gem store, their profits go down, a few red letter months may get them wondering." Ok where may we be going wrong?" …

at THAT point whether or not Gw2 survives, is up to gw2.

It is NOT the responsibility of the player to keep this game afloat. Players should only spend Mopney if they feel Like it, Not because they feel if they cease, the game goes away.

It’s Anet’s responsibility to keep gw2 going….Not the player’s.

Devata.6589:

tigirius.9014:

Galen Grey.4709:

Devata.6589:

I see some people here talk about grinding gold and if the problem is that they now get less. For many the problem is not getting less when grinding gold but that getting everything requires (grinding) gold.

This not true. Everything available on the TP was actually acquired by players themselves. You can earn stuff yourself but people choose to go the gold route because farming gives a disproportionately high return. If it takes an hour of farming to get 1 corrupted lodestone why farm it when you can spend that same hour farming gold and buy 15 of them!

The point is when you buy 15 of them you bought all 15 from 13-15 people because rewards are so terrible that you can’t farm anything yourself. You HAVE to use the TP seriously or you’ll spend months.

Look at any guide on youtube for any other game and you’ll see that you can actually farm the top tier items needed for anything. Look at guides from youtube about getting what you need for this game, guess what they say, yep, grind gold and buy it.

Yeah thats indeed what I talking about.

It’s amazing isn’kitten People live in denial no matter how many examples or facts you provide they are still somewhere where reality doesn’t touch them. weird.

And to the person above, no they (blizz) actually didn’t consider it a success, not when they changed it, they were very apologetic to the players that it so drastically affected gameplay. Hopefully the same will happen here. And don’t get me wrong I’m all for supporting game developers but there is a wrong way and a right way of doing it and this is the wrong way as history shows us.

Make more tools, make lots more store only whole sets of armor, add new professions and new crafting systems that’s fine but remove the requirement to have everything bought in the TP in order to do anything. And this isn’t some small thing I understand that it will take alot of work but I know they can do it because other titles have in the past as well. They’ll have to restore loot to what it was in the open world during the first two months of the game, they’ll have to remove DR entirely, they’ll have to give bosses in the open world (including champs) as many bags/boxes that dungeons/WvW receive, they’ll have to give better mechanics to their teleport tracking system so they can catch bots properly, and they’ll have to reset many of the orders on the TP and restrict drastic highs and lows so that people can’t drive the market into the ground like they are doing now.

The alternative? Wait until some other titles come out and not provide any solution and BAM most of the playerbase leaves for something that doesn’t require grinding for gold all the time.

Im Mudbone.1437:

Behellagh.1468:

nexxe.7081:

Lil Puppy.5216:

Well apparently it’s working cause the gold to gem market is dropping like rain right now.

I wouldn’t exaggerate that much. My quote above, from earlier, said 50g for 507 gems. I just checked right now, and it’s 50g for 548 gems. Not much of a difference. lol.

You keep using the wrong conversion rate. The Gold to Gem rate isn’t the same as the Gem to Gold rate. The Gem to Gold rate is only 72.25% of the Gold to Gem rate.

50g at this time is around 637 Gems.

And how much gold will 637 gems get you?

Ah, 50g. ???

At the point I’m writing this it will cost you 639 gems for 50g. About $8 USD.
50g will buy you 461 gems.

Rates at Jun 4th, 2014 23:18-19 EDT from GW2Spidy.