Guild Wars 2

Vayne.8563:

Actually one of my guildies has a daughter that just got a job with Anet. Unless she’s lying to me, which I suppose is possible, well, they’re hiring. And yes, I’m not making this up. Against all the odds, someone in my guild has told me their daughter got a job with Anet. I almost wish she didn’t because it sounds like something I invented.

All you’re doing it trying to refute reasonable believes by saying this may not be true, or this might not mean something. It’s still more evidence that something is true than not. You don’t want to see it, but most other people probably can.

Great. They hired one person. ONE PERSON.

Do you know if they fired anyone? Do you really know how much the NCSoft layoffs IN SEATTLE WHERE ANET IS BASED had an effect on ANet?

Again, just because they are hiring doesn’t mean that the population is doing well. Maybe the person they need to hire is because the last guy quit to go work on the zombie MMO that everyone else left to go do.

I’m not gonna say I don’t believe you. I actually believe everything you say as in you observe the things you say and you aren’t making them up. I believe you when you say that you were an editor and that you follow MMOs closely and that you have done lots of studying into the LOTR trilogy.

What I just don’t agree with is that your anecdotal evidence is any more powerful than anyone else’s anecdotal evidence, and it doesn’t give you the right to tell people their opinion is wrong when you don’t know the truth either.

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

Actually one of my guildies has a daughter that just got a job with Anet. Unless she’s lying to me, which I suppose is possible, well, they’re hiring. And yes, I’m not making this up. Against all the odds, someone in my guild has told me their daughter got a job with Anet. I almost wish she didn’t because it sounds like something I invented.

All you’re doing it trying to refute reasonable believes by saying this may not be true, or this might not mean something. It’s still more evidence that something is true than not. You don’t want to see it, but most other people probably can.

Great. They hired one person. ONE PERSON.

Do you know if they fired anyone? Do you really know how much the NCSoft layoffs IN SEATTLE WHERE ANET IS BASED had an effect on ANet?

Again, just because they are hiring doesn’t mean that the population is doing well. Maybe the person they need to hire is because the last guy quit to go work on the zombie MMO that everyone else left to go do.

I’m not gonna say I don’t believe you. I actually believe everything you say as in you observe the things you say and you aren’t making them up. I believe you when you say that you were an editor and that you follow MMOs closely and that you have done lots of studying into the LOTR trilogy.

What I just don’t agree with is that your anecdotal evidence is any more powerful than anyone else’s anecdotal evidence, and it doesn’t give you the right to tell people their opinion is wrong when you don’t know the truth either.

You’re missing the point. They hired one person (or are in the process of, they’ve given her a project), out of the people in my guild. If that were the ONLY person they were hiring the odds of that person being in my guild would be astronomical. In fact, even without that, if they were hiring 20-30 guys the odds would be highly against it.

So if one person in my guild has a daughter being employed by Anet, then what are the odds she’s the only one?

Again, if the Anet staff laid off people we’d have heard about it. We heard about it from every other game. Why wouldn’t we hear about it from Anet? You say what if a whole lot, but in reality, it’s just guessing.

Vayne.8563:

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

Actually one of my guildies has a daughter that just got a job with Anet. Unless she’s lying to me, which I suppose is possible, well, they’re hiring. And yes, I’m not making this up. Against all the odds, someone in my guild has told me their daughter got a job with Anet. I almost wish she didn’t because it sounds like something I invented.

All you’re doing it trying to refute reasonable believes by saying this may not be true, or this might not mean something. It’s still more evidence that something is true than not. You don’t want to see it, but most other people probably can.

Great. They hired one person. ONE PERSON.

Do you know if they fired anyone? Do you really know how much the NCSoft layoffs IN SEATTLE WHERE ANET IS BASED had an effect on ANet?

Again, just because they are hiring doesn’t mean that the population is doing well. Maybe the person they need to hire is because the last guy quit to go work on the zombie MMO that everyone else left to go do.

I’m not gonna say I don’t believe you. I actually believe everything you say as in you observe the things you say and you aren’t making them up. I believe you when you say that you were an editor and that you follow MMOs closely and that you have done lots of studying into the LOTR trilogy.

What I just don’t agree with is that your anecdotal evidence is any more powerful than anyone else’s anecdotal evidence, and it doesn’t give you the right to tell people their opinion is wrong when you don’t know the truth either.

You’re missing the point. They hired one person (or are in the process of, they’ve given her a project), out of the people in my guild. If that were the ONLY person they were hiring the odds of that person being in my guild would be astronomical. In fact, even without that, if they were hiring 20-30 guys the odds would be highly against it.

So if one person in my guild has a daughter being employed by Anet, then what are the odds she’s the only one?

Again, if the Anet staff laid off people we’d have heard about it. We heard about it from every other game. Why wouldn’t we hear about it from Anet? You say what if a whole lot, but in reality, it’s just guessing.

Vayne, what do you want me to say. You’re right. There is obviously no way possible that this game is doing poorly, all signs point to go and it obviously is impervious to failing. In fact, the game is doing so well that the people who have had entire guilds quit on them or have friends lists that no longer light up and just wrong about what they see. They must just not play the game the right way or at the right time…

Is that what you want to hear? That there is no chance that you are wrong and that anyone who says the game might be doing poorly is so obviously wrong that we should ridicule them and banish them from the forums?

I don’t disagree that there is evidence that the game is doing well. I also don’t disagree that there is evidence that the game is losing population fast.

I have a reason I believe what I believe and I’m tired of discussing it, but I just can’t get over your insistence to make people feel stupid for feeling something because of the same reasons you feel something – because of their experience.

When we can get past that, and the fact that I don’t have an opinion because I haven’t played enough MMO’s, I think that you are an intelligent enough person to have a meaningful conversation with. You just do a terrible job of trying to make your opinion more important and “right” than everyone else’s

I think the game is fun, but the lack of build options and poor class balance and mob + dungeon design scar that fun a good bit and limit longevity. These are entirely fixable issues and will probably be more or less resolved within the next year.

The game isn’t a grind unless you make it one. You don’t need that legendary. You don’t need the negligible stat bonus from ascended gear. You don’t need to spend all day running Fractals or CoF. Exotic gear is not that difficult to earn and can be earned in a solid number of ways. Every bit of content is viable to a degree and the world is a beautiful place to explore and experience.

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

Actually one of my guildies has a daughter that just got a job with Anet. Unless she’s lying to me, which I suppose is possible, well, they’re hiring. And yes, I’m not making this up. Against all the odds, someone in my guild has told me their daughter got a job with Anet. I almost wish she didn’t because it sounds like something I invented.

All you’re doing it trying to refute reasonable believes by saying this may not be true, or this might not mean something. It’s still more evidence that something is true than not. You don’t want to see it, but most other people probably can.

Great. They hired one person. ONE PERSON.

Do you know if they fired anyone? Do you really know how much the NCSoft layoffs IN SEATTLE WHERE ANET IS BASED had an effect on ANet?

Again, just because they are hiring doesn’t mean that the population is doing well. Maybe the person they need to hire is because the last guy quit to go work on the zombie MMO that everyone else left to go do.

I’m not gonna say I don’t believe you. I actually believe everything you say as in you observe the things you say and you aren’t making them up. I believe you when you say that you were an editor and that you follow MMOs closely and that you have done lots of studying into the LOTR trilogy.

What I just don’t agree with is that your anecdotal evidence is any more powerful than anyone else’s anecdotal evidence, and it doesn’t give you the right to tell people their opinion is wrong when you don’t know the truth either.

You’re missing the point. They hired one person (or are in the process of, they’ve given her a project), out of the people in my guild. If that were the ONLY person they were hiring the odds of that person being in my guild would be astronomical. In fact, even without that, if they were hiring 20-30 guys the odds would be highly against it.

So if one person in my guild has a daughter being employed by Anet, then what are the odds she’s the only one?

Again, if the Anet staff laid off people we’d have heard about it. We heard about it from every other game. Why wouldn’t we hear about it from Anet? You say what if a whole lot, but in reality, it’s just guessing.

Vayne, what do you want me to say. You’re right. There is obviously no way possible that this game is doing poorly, all signs point to go and it obviously is impervious to failing. In fact, the game is doing so well that the people who have had entire guilds quit on them or have friends lists that no longer light up and just wrong about what they see. They must just not play the game the right way or at the right time…

Is that what you want to hear? That there is no chance that you are wrong and that anyone who says the game might be doing poorly is so obviously wrong that we should ridicule them and banish them from the forums?

I don’t disagree that there is evidence that the game is doing well. I also don’t disagree that there is evidence that the game is losing population fast.

I have a reason I believe what I believe and I’m tired of discussing it, but I just can’t get over your insistence to make people feel stupid for feeling something because of the same reasons you feel something – because of their experience.

When we can get past that, and the fact that I don’t have an opinion because I haven’t played enough MMO’s, I think that you are an intelligent enough person to have a meaningful conversation with. You just do a terrible job of trying to make your opinion more important and “right” than everyone else’s

Some guilds are dying and some, like mine, are growing. I don’t know about you, but having a guild die in a game is as anecdotal as anything else. Guilds die in games for ALL sorts of reasons.

For example, PvP guilds might not be doing well, but WvW and PvE guilds might be doing great. Saying you know people who left so the game is dying, or lots of people do is not reliable.

For one thing, a zillion guilds die every day in WoW and no one says WoW is dying. Well no one who actually can read a stock report.

Yes, I have had and am still having more fun in GWII than any other game I’ve ever played.

There are of course a few things I don’t like, but none of those things take away anything from my overall experience.

The game is dying in the same way a man who just stepped on a nail is dying from blood loss – in other words, not very quickly, nor very likely.

Guns and Giblets.9308:

Vayne.8563:

So if one person in my guild has a daughter being employed by Anet, then what are the odds she’s the only one?

Probability doesn’t work like that.

Imagine if one person in my guild won the lottery. What are the odds she’s the only one?

Determining odds in this case depends on the nature of the specific outcome as compared with the total number of possible outcomes. Neither of us have access to all the relevant factors to make any meaningful guesses. Try not to confuse unbridled optimism with meaningful analysis.

Again, if the Anet staff laid off people we’d have heard about it. We heard about it from every other game. Why wouldn’t we hear about it from Anet? You say what if a whole lot, but in reality, it’s just guessing.

1. It depends on what kind of staff. Some staff are non-essential and serve no core function. Their being laid off would not merit a press release or other public indicators.

2. I really don’t know where you’re getting the idea that we know about when this happens “from every other game.” Even if we did, that would be a composition fallacy.

3. Some staff are fired and, to protect privacy and/or for other sensitive (legal, contractual, etc.) reasons, this is never mentioned publicly anywhere.

In sum, you’re just guessing as much as anyone.

Public companies have to declare layoffs due to various laws, because it affects stock holders. NCsoft is a public company and like other public companies they’d have to announce when they laid off people at least in any significant number.

Bioware had to annouce they laid off half their work force. Funcom had to annouce they laid off a third of their work force. All matters of public records.

If NcSoft was a privately held firm, they wouldn’t have to announce anything. The fact (and it is a fact) that they’re publicly traded means they’d have to announce lay offs.

Guns and Giblets.9308:

Vayne.8563:

Public companies have to declare layoffs due to various laws, because it affects stock holders. NCsoft is a public company and like other public companies they’d have to announce when they laid off people at least in any significant number.

Define “at least in any significant number.” That differs from your statement below, which suggests some sort of ambiguity on your part.

If NcSoft was a privately held firm, they wouldn’t have to announce anything. The fact (and it is a fact) that they’re publicly traded means they’d have to announce lay offs.

It would have been helpful if you had said that you only had in mind public companies.

By the way, it’s also a fact that you don’t have access to the relevant information to determine the probability of hirings based on knowing someone who knows someone who got a job at Anet.

It’s a fact that laying off five guys if they in fact did, doesn’t constitute a layoff, if they’re hiring 25 guys. Anet is publicly advertising for help wanted. Are you actually suggesting they’re doing this just to pull the wool over our eyes about how well the game is doing?

Matters of public record are imporant. We have three big MMOs, or relatively big, to come out in the past yearish. SWToR, TSW and Guild Wars 2. No other big MMO new releases exist. MoP of course is a big release, but it’s not a new MMO.

Of those, two of the three new releases have had to make major layoffs within the first six months of their existence. This isn’t a guess. this is fact.

Anet, if they had to lay off a third of their staff, would have to annouce it (and even if they didn’t the people who watch the industry would have reported on it). You can bet there’d be an article in Barons or Wall Street Journal if it happened and if it did, we’d have heard about it.

Anet hasn’t laid off people and they are hiring (unless you believe they’re lying about hiring on their website).

I’ll leave each individual to decide which is more likely and what this information means. I’m at least relatively sure most people will at least take this as a sign that the game isn’t doing badly. Some might even believe it’s doing well.

@Vayne – there is no consistency in your posts. you always go back on what you say and that we merely misinterpret everything you say.

You’re just like someone I know, and not many people bother discussing things with him anymore.

Edit: this topic has been side tracked too much. We stated if we enjoy the game or not and provided reasons only to have them shoved back into our faces by you. Every second post if from you trying to justify yourself and your opinions or whatever you feel you need to achieve. Thing is… I think many have heard enough from you so please just let other have some room for discussion…. I know I’m going to stop my input from here on.

gkrit.9416:

@Vayne – there is no consistency in your posts. you always go back on what you say and that we merely misinterpret everything you say.

You’re just like someone I know, and not many people bother discussing things with him anymore.

I don’t know, I seem to get on well with people in my guild. And you know, I’m not so sure I’d be real sad if certain people stopped discussing stuff with me.

I’m not a young man. In my life there have always been a group of people who really haven’t liked me, so I’m used to that. Fortunately, the group of people who do like me is just as large or larger. I’m really okay with that.

Guns and Giblets.9308:

Vayne.8563:

Anet is publicly advertising for help wanted. Are you actually suggesting they’re doing this just to pull the wool over our eyes about how well the game is doing?

Er, what? Sometimes I wonder if you’re speaking to me or someone else.

Companies post open positions for all sorts of reasons. This is like your speculation about the number of people being hired based on someone in your guild knowing someone who was hired. You don’t know enough to make any sort of serious judgments.

Matters of public record are imporant.

Who said they weren’t?

You’re not addressing the key issue I outlined: do they need to announce every layoff or only if a substantial number are laid off?

A layoff of a single person is calling being fired. There’s a difference between a layoff and being fired. People can get fired for all sorts of reasons. A layoff usually refers to some sort of budget seeking message.

Yes, if Anet was “laying off” people they would have to make a public declaration. They would not have to if they let someone go, however.

As I’ve said, gaming companies that under perform end up laying off a percentage of their staff. If lay offs happen, they have to announce it.

Guns and Giblets.9308:

Vayne.8563:

A layoff of a single person is calling being fired. There’s a difference between a layoff and being fired. People can get fired for all sorts of reasons. A layoff usually refers to some sort of budget seeking message.

I know the difference, thanks. So much information, so little relevance.

Yes, if Anet was “laying off” people they would have to make a public declaration. They would not have to if they let someone go, however.

As I’ve said, gaming companies that under perform end up laying off a percentage of their staff. If lay offs happen, they have to announce it.

Still not answering the question. What percentage?

I did answer the question. If Anet did layoffs they would have to annouce it PERIOD. That is, if the game wasn’t doing well and they started laying off people for that reason, they would have to announce it.

I used the word percentage originally because other companies in fact did have to let go a large percentage of their staff. But if you’re doing a layoff because sales have not met expectations, yes, you have to declare that publicly or you can get into trouble.

Here’s where they just announced, only 2 weeks ago, that they’re hiring:

https://twitter.com/GuildWars2/status/319513625930911744

Guild Wars 2 ?@GuildWars2

Our best wishes to those affected by the layoffs this week. We are currently adding to our team: http://ow.ly/jIk8W #gamejobs ~RB2

So, it’s not that they’re just “always looking for talent/hiring”, but that they’re actively seeking talented members of game development teams to join theirs. If they had no positions open, if the game wasn’t being successful, if they weren’t making profit, then they’d not have extended the invitation to apply. However, that invitation is an indication that the game is doing well, that they are making a profit, and that they need more people to help develop faster content for this profitably great game.

Siphaed.9235:

Here’s where they just announced, only 2 weeks ago, that they’re hiring:

https://twitter.com/GuildWars2/status/319513625930911744

Guild Wars 2 ?@GuildWars2

Our best wishes to those affected by the layoffs this week. We are currently adding to our team: http://ow.ly/jIk8W #gamejobs ~RB2

So, it’s not that they’re just “always looking for talent/hiring”, but that they’re actively seeking talented members of game development teams to join theirs. If they had no positions open, if the game wasn’t being successful, if they weren’t making profit, then they’d not have extended the invitation to apply. However, that invitation is an indication that the game is doing well, that they are making a profit, and that they need more people to help develop faster content for this profitably great game.

Holy cow! Logic on these forums! Say it isn’t so! lol

I’m having fun. And the current argument I see is asinine. Why you people are even arguing it just shows the state of this age’s gamer’s intellect.

Thread title is “Are you having fun?”. Not “Did you expect layoffs?”.

Siphaed.9235:

Here’s where they just announced, only 2 weeks ago, that they’re hiring:

https://twitter.com/GuildWars2/status/319513625930911744

Guild Wars 2 ?@GuildWars2

Our best wishes to those affected by the layoffs this week. We are currently adding to our team: http://ow.ly/jIk8W #gamejobs ~RB2

So, it’s not that they’re just “always looking for talent/hiring”, but that they’re actively seeking talented members of game development teams to join theirs. If they had no positions open, if the game wasn’t being successful, if they weren’t making profit, then they’d not have extended the invitation to apply. However, that invitation is an indication that the game is doing well, that they are making a profit, and that they need more people to help develop faster content for this profitably great game.

I do hope that whoever they hire will put back the ‘fun’.

SadieDeAtreia.8912:

Siphaed.9235:

Here’s where they just announced, only 2 weeks ago, that they’re hiring:

https://twitter.com/GuildWars2/status/319513625930911744

Guild Wars 2 ?@GuildWars2

Our best wishes to those affected by the layoffs this week. We are currently adding to our team: http://ow.ly/jIk8W #gamejobs ~RB2

So, it’s not that they’re just “always looking for talent/hiring”, but that they’re actively seeking talented members of game development teams to join theirs. If they had no positions open, if the game wasn’t being successful, if they weren’t making profit, then they’d not have extended the invitation to apply. However, that invitation is an indication that the game is doing well, that they are making a profit, and that they need more people to help develop faster content for this profitably great game.

I do hope that whoever they hire will put back the ‘fun’.

Super Adventure Box isn’t fun? Living World stories aren’t fun? Daily events with Jumping Puzzles, Keg Brawl, Costume Brawl, and so on in such expansively random variety aren’t fun?

Siphaed.9235:

Super Adventure Box isn’t fun? Living World stories aren’t fun? Daily events with Jumping Puzzles, Keg Brawl, Costume Brawl, and so on in such expansively random variety aren’t fun?

Living world is boring. Feels like a step back from the dynamic event and heart system. It is nothing more than kill 150 rats, collect 250 mellons.

SAB: 8bit temporary HKO content, nty!
Daily is nothing more than time gated repetition
Jumping puzzles are fun the first time.
Keg brawl: see JPs

./shrugs

Yeah. It’s fun, just not as fun as it could be.

I like how this game does not feel like one big massive grind just to have a small bit of fun. It’s fun the moment I log in, and I’m left satisfied when I go away. I also have the freedom to play at my own pace, and the world is big and immersive.

What does “fun” mean?

I dunno. I’ll probably check out the next big release. Until then, I’m just not interested. And if they keep going in the direction they have been (which is, apparently, what everyone except me wants), I would imagine I’ll be giving GW2 up altogether. You can defend it all you like, fine, it’s your opinion, and it’s unlikely to change mine. I don’t like gear grind (imo this game has gear grind so don’t bother), I don’t like sloppy programming, and I’m really, really not impressed with the way all roads seem to lead to the cash shop.

Carry on.

Guns and Giblets.9308:

Vayne.8563:

Holy cow! Logic on these forums! Say it isn’t so! lol

You mean like your attempt to determine probabilities about the number of hirings? That was completely illogical.

I’m sorry, how does this apply to the topic of “Is Guild Wars 2 fun”? I’m pretty sure that instead of trying to pick on me (which doesn’t work anyway), we can discuss the topic at hand.

I think Guild Wars 2 has fun bits in it, but it needs work in some areas. I’m having fun, though only part of that is due to the game. Part of that is due to my guild.

The problem is, of course, that everyone had different things that they find fun, so this game won’t be fun for everyone.

Hi everyone,

We would like to aks you to not derail the thread. The discussion is about fun, not about the team or their situation. Please refrain from going off topic.

Thanks for your understanding.

Moderator.1462:

Hi everyone,

We would like to aks you to not derail the thread. The discussion is about fun, not about the team or their situation. Please refrain from going off topic.

Thanks for your understanding.

No, it’s not. It’s about the Original Poster trolling these forums about a hate-grudge against Guild Wars 2.

dan matthews.2736:

lets discuss who is actually enjoying the game at level 80. also, do you consider this game a grind? in my opinion, people are leaving this game because its incredible boring and grindfest at level 80. what do you guys think?

Seems that’s not only obvious hate-grudge, but it’s also spreading misinformation and lies. Trying to say that tons of people are leaving this game and hate it, all sharing the same opinion the Original Poster tries to pass on as fact. This is not true at all. This thread itself, which was made to spark flame wars, should end.

Siphaed.9235:

Moderator.1462:

Hi everyone,

We would like to aks you to not derail the thread. The discussion is about fun, not about the team or their situation. Please refrain from going off topic.

Thanks for your understanding.

No, it’s not. It’s about the Original Poster trolling these forums about a hate-grudge against Guild Wars 2.

dan matthews.2736:

lets discuss who is actually enjoying the game at level 80. also, do you consider this game a grind? in my opinion, people are leaving this game because its incredible boring and grindfest at level 80. what do you guys think?

Seems that’s not only obvious hate-grudge, but it’s also spreading misinformation and lies. Trying to say that tons of people are leaving this game and hate it, all sharing the same opinion the Original Poster tries to pass on as fact. This is not true at all. This thread itself, which was made to spark flame wars, should end.

Don’t hate the player, hate the game. LOL!

Seriously, just because you don’t like the OP or disagree with him doesn’t mean it’s a troll post. There are plenty of people that have beef with the game.

For me it is fun, My RLF that started with me they are all gone but i still play every day 2-4h after dinner.

But i admit that sometimes it gets very frustrating due to annoying bugs and some of the unexplicable changes dev’s implement…

clay.7849:

Don’t hate the player, hate the game. LOL!

Seriously, just because you don’t like the OP or disagree with him doesn’t mean it’s a troll post. There are plenty of people that have beef with the game.

The OP is however doing more or less the definition of trolling with that post.

Yea, this thread is going to get shut down PDQ if talk like this keeps coming up…

Seriously, folks…is there any reason to get emotional over someone else’s opinion of the video game? Disagree, if you like, debate the points, whatever, but getting emotional over it? Upset, angry, frustrated? Over someone’s post on a forum? That’s not any better than trolling.

I’d politely suggest some fresh air and exercise for those feeling a little too strongly…

OK I’ll get off my soapbox, and continue reading. I do like an interesting debate…

dan matthews.2736:

lets discuss who is actually enjoying the game at level 80. also, do you consider this game a grind? in my opinion, people are leaving this game because its incredible boring and grindfest at level 80. what do you guys think?

Yeah but I LIKE grinding for nice skinned gear at max level.

lordkrall.7241:

clay.7849:

Don’t hate the player, hate the game. LOL!

Seriously, just because you don’t like the OP or disagree with him doesn’t mean it’s a troll post. There are plenty of people that have beef with the game.

The OP is however doing more or less the definition of trolling with that post.

It basically is. There’s been a million of these.

ophidic.1279:

lordkrall.7241:

clay.7849:

Don’t hate the player, hate the game. LOL!

Seriously, just because you don’t like the OP or disagree with him doesn’t mean it’s a troll post. There are plenty of people that have beef with the game.

The OP is however doing more or less the definition of trolling with that post.

It basically is. There’s been a million of these.

If it was the same person, I would agree. However, it is different people and they have all realized that something about this game isn’t fun for them – and they have the right to post about that feeling for the the devs to see without the need of being called a troll.

clay.7849:

If it was the same person, I would agree. However, it is different people and they have all realized that something about this game isn’t fun for them – and they have the right to post about that feeling for the the devs to see without the need of being called a troll.

It is not a matter of saying that the game is not fun, it is the matter of HOW he says it.
A troll can have a valid point, but he would still be a troll.

Guys, just take another look at that original post, and tell me it’s even remotely constructive.

He starts off with the line: “lets discuss who is actually enjoying the game at level 80.” Note how he uses the word “actually,” implying right away that it is unlikely. He didn’t ask, he told. He’s not interested in discussing anything, he just wants to say he thinks the game is crappy and be done with it. I mean, where has he been, for the rest of the thread? He just made his post, and left.

Then he says “in my opinion, people are leaving this game because its incredible boring and grindfest at level 80.” It’s his opinion that people are leaving the game? What does that even mean? That’s not an opinion. Either people leave, or they don’t. He doesn’t cite any relevant statistics or information to elevate his post above the level of emotional gossip or personal anecdote.

There’s a difference between criticism and whining. If you are at your friend’s house and you notice he’s got cracks forming in his driveway, a constructive thing might be to say: “Hey, I know a guy who can take care of that driveway if you want. Come winter, the ice will get in there and just make it a lot worse.” What you don’t need to say, is: “Let’s discuss who actually enjoys being here anymore. Also, do you consider this driveway ugly? In my opinion people are refusing to come here anymore.”

So because the OP doesn’t state his opinion in an eloquent and concise manner in order to not step on the fanboys’ toes he’s a troll? C’mon guys, you are getting way too worked up reading between the lines.

Fyrebrand.4859:

He’s not interested in discussing anything, he just wants to say he thinks the game is crappy and be done with it. I mean, where has he been, for the rest of the thread? He just made his post, and left.

It doesn’t matter how we make these kinds of posts. Several prolific posters on these forums, who patrol them as if it were their sacred duty to maintain a positive forum atmosphere and “balance” out any criticism with positive points, dismiss all critical posts—even if well-reasoned with facts and analysis—as mere opinion and overly pessimistic. When they are engaged in argument, they avoid points that damage their position while reverting to claims that their position is the majority one and/or that everything will turn out really well with enough time or development. When they are pressed on these kinds of assertions, they play the martyr, claiming they are being bullied or otherwise personally attacked, or that requiring logical demonstrations is somehow off-topic.

They never admit error and their responses consist of sets of non-sequiturs, hiding behind the rules when it’s convenient or their position becomes untenable, abusing them when they think they can get away with it; to them, the rules are a means to an end—the defense of GW2 as a particularly fantastic game and the silencing of anyone who says otherwise. It’s hopeless to have any meaningful dialogue in such an atmosphere.

clay.7849:

ophidic.1279:

lordkrall.7241:

clay.7849:

Don’t hate the player, hate the game. LOL!

Seriously, just because you don’t like the OP or disagree with him doesn’t mean it’s a troll post. There are plenty of people that have beef with the game.

The OP is however doing more or less the definition of trolling with that post.

It basically is. There’s been a million of these.

If it was the same person, I would agree. However, it is different people and they have all realized that something about this game isn’t fun for them – and they have the right to post about that feeling for the the devs to see without the need of being called a troll.

Honestly I think they’re playing the wrong game. I don’t mean that in a mean way, I mean that in “this game isn’t suited to their long term needs” kind of way.

I just wish more people shared this attitude about the non-fun jumping puzzles.

ophidic.1279:

clay.7849:

ophidic.1279:

lordkrall.7241:

clay.7849:

Don’t hate the player, hate the game. LOL!

Seriously, just because you don’t like the OP or disagree with him doesn’t mean it’s a troll post. There are plenty of people that have beef with the game.

The OP is however doing more or less the definition of trolling with that post.

It basically is. There’s been a million of these.

If it was the same person, I would agree. However, it is different people and they have all realized that something about this game isn’t fun for them – and they have the right to post about that feeling for the the devs to see without the need of being called a troll.

Honestly I think they’re playing the wrong game. I don’t mean that in a mean way, I mean that in “this game isn’t suited to their long term needs” kind of way.

I just wish more people shared this attitude about the non-fun jumping puzzles.

I agree. I know I’m playing the wrong game. There is, however, very little competition it seems out there in the MMO genre at the moment.

I keep telling myself I want to play The Secret World, but I have unreasonable problems with playing non-fantasy MMO type games.

Actually, I don’t even like MMOs. GW1 was the closest thing to an MMO I played, but I LOVED IT.

I will probably go back to Skyrim and turn up the difficulty meter another notch while waiting for the next good single player fantasy RPG.

I think a lot of people, like me, are in limbo and are bumming around GW2 because it is F2P.

Yes the game is fun.

Some people want a skinner box, though.

Others would rather wait 30mins-1hour+ to start a group so that they have a predeteremined role.

I prefer actually playing how I want, when I want.

The game isn’t perfect. It has some serious balance issues, especially with the ranger and necro. But is it fun? Yes…there are plenty of fun things to do.

clay.7849:

ophidic.1279:

clay.7849:

ophidic.1279:

lordkrall.7241:

clay.7849:

Don’t hate the player, hate the game. LOL!

Seriously, just because you don’t like the OP or disagree with him doesn’t mean it’s a troll post. There are plenty of people that have beef with the game.

The OP is however doing more or less the definition of trolling with that post.

It basically is. There’s been a million of these.

If it was the same person, I would agree. However, it is different people and they have all realized that something about this game isn’t fun for them – and they have the right to post about that feeling for the the devs to see without the need of being called a troll.

Honestly I think they’re playing the wrong game. I don’t mean that in a mean way, I mean that in “this game isn’t suited to their long term needs” kind of way.

I just wish more people shared this attitude about the non-fun jumping puzzles.

I agree. I know I’m playing the wrong game. There is, however, very little competition it seems out there in the MMO genre at the moment.

I keep telling myself I want to play The Secret World, but I have unreasonable problems with playing non-fantasy MMO type games.

Actually, I don’t even like MMOs. GW1 was the closest thing to an MMO I played, but I LOVED IT.

I will probably go back to Skyrim and turn up the difficulty meter another notch while waiting for the next good single player fantasy RPG.

I think a lot of people, like me, are in limbo and are bumming around GW2 because it is F2P.

Yeah I think a lot of people need more story or something than what GW2 has… Guild wars had had story, but IMO it’s pretty weak. I’m just here to farm and get loot.

I can see Skyrim/Morrowind, maybe Two Worlds or something being a good alternative, or even GW1.

clay.7849:

ophidic.1279:

clay.7849:

ophidic.1279:

lordkrall.7241:

clay.7849:

Don’t hate the player, hate the game. LOL!

Seriously, just because you don’t like the OP or disagree with him doesn’t mean it’s a troll post. There are plenty of people that have beef with the game.

The OP is however doing more or less the definition of trolling with that post.

It basically is. There’s been a million of these.

If it was the same person, I would agree. However, it is different people and they have all realized that something about this game isn’t fun for them – and they have the right to post about that feeling for the the devs to see without the need of being called a troll.

Honestly I think they’re playing the wrong game. I don’t mean that in a mean way, I mean that in “this game isn’t suited to their long term needs” kind of way.

I just wish more people shared this attitude about the non-fun jumping puzzles.

I agree. I know I’m playing the wrong game. There is, however, very little competition it seems out there in the MMO genre at the moment.

I keep telling myself I want to play The Secret World, but I have unreasonable problems with playing non-fantasy MMO type games.

Actually, I don’t even like MMOs. GW1 was the closest thing to an MMO I played, but I LOVED IT.

I will probably go back to Skyrim and turn up the difficulty meter another notch while waiting for the next good single player fantasy RPG.

I think a lot of people, like me, are in limbo and are bumming around GW2 because it is F2P.

Ok, now we are getting somewhere. Essentially GW1 was a cooperative RPG, that didnt need to be cooperative. This game is an MMO. This means the overall game mechanics are substantially different. So the question here, is what can be done to appeal to the co op RPG guys to make GW2 more appealing without killing the MMO side of things…

One of the big things about GW1 was that you could do everything solo, or with a group, or partial groups etc. This cant happen completely in GW2. However, I think if they add more plotlines, actual story, and development to each area, so its more similar to Missions in GW1. not only that, but change the concept of personal story towards a personal adventure, make it so every one gets experience and karma balanced around how long the mission takes to complete. The personal adventure would be a bit expanded to include some side stories of a more personal nature for the area, and not be all directly linked to the story line. Think of these as side stories you find in the world, that better flesh out your personal adventures. They arent required for story completion, but they involve your charachter, and their choices, and you can invite people on the missions. Give some rewards for doing these missions the first time similar to trade contracts in GW1, which you could use to get some fairly high demand items like rubies.

This i think would add a lot of depth to exploration, and give co rpg people more content, they can solo it, or they can bring a small group of friends. It would be pretty cool if delve deep into some underwater cave, and instead of finding just a chest worth 1 blue, your Asura gets some race specific story line for a lost Asuran city, You can then invite your friends or some random people on the map and go have fun doing a co op type mission. Keep in mind this content might also be part of a dynamic event, and tied into the goings on in the open world.

Or maybe, as the human who wanted to join the circus, you find and have adventures related to the circus people who were forgotten.

This builds a more personal rpg, and will make the world seem even more cool to explore, while only adding to the overall world itself. Pass on VAs for players in this content, costs too much time and resources, Make use of dialougue as accents. IMO the best VA stuff is usually little tid bits that give you flavor.

ophidic.1279:

I can see Skyrim/Morrowind, maybe Two Worlds or something being a good alternative, or even GW1.

That reminds me I never did finish Morrowind, I got way sidetracked doing . . . stuff. Random, gloriously uninteresting stuff like trying to scour the countryside for caverns/dungeons/shrines and tearing through them with Umbra.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

ophidic.1279:

I can see Skyrim/Morrowind, maybe Two Worlds or something being a good alternative, or even GW1.

That reminds me I never did finish Morrowind, I got way sidetracked doing . . . stuff. Random, gloriously uninteresting stuff like trying to scour the countryside for caverns/dungeons/shrines and tearing through them with Umbra.

Same thing happened to me in Skyrim, although Morrowind was the better of the two games.

clay.7849:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

ophidic.1279:

I can see Skyrim/Morrowind, maybe Two Worlds or something being a good alternative, or even GW1.

That reminds me I never did finish Morrowind, I got way sidetracked doing . . . stuff. Random, gloriously uninteresting stuff like trying to scour the countryside for caverns/dungeons/shrines and tearing through them with Umbra.

Same thing happened to me in Skyrim, although Morrowind was the better of the two games.

Morrowind was a grindfest so I would disagree.

Mirta.5029:

clay.7849:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

ophidic.1279:

I can see Skyrim/Morrowind, maybe Two Worlds or something being a good alternative, or even GW1.

That reminds me I never did finish Morrowind, I got way sidetracked doing . . . stuff. Random, gloriously uninteresting stuff like trying to scour the countryside for caverns/dungeons/shrines and tearing through them with Umbra.

Same thing happened to me in Skyrim, although Morrowind was the better of the two games.

Morrowind was a grindfest so I would disagree.

Do you ever agree with anyone?

clay.7849:

Mirta.5029:

clay.7849:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

ophidic.1279:

I can see Skyrim/Morrowind, maybe Two Worlds or something being a good alternative, or even GW1.

That reminds me I never did finish Morrowind, I got way sidetracked doing . . . stuff. Random, gloriously uninteresting stuff like trying to scour the countryside for caverns/dungeons/shrines and tearing through them with Umbra.

Same thing happened to me in Skyrim, although Morrowind was the better of the two games.

Morrowind was a grindfest so I would disagree.

Do you ever agree with anyone?

yes.

Mirta.5029:

darkace.8925:

clay.7849:

GW2 isn’t the only game with this problem. Trash mobs are trash mobs, if you can run past them, usually people will. If mobs held aggro longer/further, you would see this kind of thing disappear.

I’ve wondered why they haven’t implemented a system wherein every trash mob killed increases your odds of rolling better loot from chests by a percentage large enough to entice players to fully clear dungeons but not so large that clearing dungeons becomes mandatory.

+1 to this. I think this would be a great idea.

Mirta.5029:

Morrowind was a grindfest so I would disagree.

Oh there’s plenty wrong with Morrowind.

(“I have to go WHERE? Where the F is that?!”)
(“So I level up, and my reward is random spawns of monsters getting tougher. Sweet.”)

I am not entirely sure what grind you were thinking of?

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

ophidic.1279:

I can see Skyrim/Morrowind, maybe Two Worlds or something being a good alternative, or even GW1.

That reminds me I never did finish Morrowind, I got way sidetracked doing . . . stuff. Random, gloriously uninteresting stuff like trying to scour the countryside for caverns/dungeons/shrines and tearing through them with Umbra.

Morrowind… oh my god what a game. Skyrim captured SOME of it’s feeling but not all of it.

I remember finding a chest under a bridge near balmora and some coins through some gaps in floorboards, and my mind was officially BLOWN.

I was not used to stuff like that, at that point in time.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Mirta.5029:

Morrowind was a grindfest so I would disagree.

Oh there’s plenty wrong with Morrowind.

(“I have to go WHERE? Where the F is that?!”)
(“So I level up, and my reward is random spawns of monsters getting tougher. Sweet.”)

I am not entirely sure what grind you were thinking of?

You actually had to read the log and use maps and place and write on your own map markers, which I thought was kind of a nice touch. Map travel makes me feel lazy, although if it’s there I can’t help but use it. lol