Guild Wars 2

UndeadRufus.6832:

Vayne.8563:

Sure you can complain. But why take over the entire forums for the same complaint over and over?

If I were a decision-maker at ArenaNet, and I saw my game’s forum being “taken over” by negative feedback about a patch, and I had the slightest bit of concern for player opinions, I would at least consider the possibility that the complaints in question warrant some attention. Maybe that’s just me….

It happens fairly often though, sometimes with less provocation than we have now. The ascended weapons thing took over the forum and Anet didn’t change it. I didn’t like ascended weapons either.

Flooding the forums with this kind of complaint so soon after a patch has consequences for the entire game. Some people who post here are genuinely concerned about the game. Some have a bone to pick, no longer play the game and just want to see the game do badly. That’s human nature. Every one of these hot button issues is exacerbated by these people and it becomes a mob instead of an intelligent discussion. Emotion rules instead of logical.

Logically, the changes made have issues, but after a big patch like this there are always issues. Now Colin comes out and says some of the features were supposed to be only for new players and somehow they were passed on to second character players. They still don’t know how but they have to fix it.

If most of the complaints were just a bug, then Anet has taken a huge hit with people leaving, people uninstalling, people not buying gems or telling their friends, all for something that may (or may not) just be a bug.

And if it is a bug, the forums have done Anet a disservice and it hurts everyone.

And yeah, bugs suck. But I’d like to see what the patch is supposed to be and give it some time before I take out a pitchfork.

I mean, the pointer thing that is bugged here works fine in China. It’s obviously a bug.

Aicus.3174:

So where did you get the numbers that those who dislike the patch outnumbered those that like the patch by 2 to 3 times?

My whole guild got no problems with it, most people I met think it is OK with rooms for improvement, my friends got nothing to complain about, my friend’s guild is cool with it as well, so maybe it is actually the other way around?

Well, you can read the forums here and see more dislikes for the update just by skimming through the threads.

But let’s go with math. At this point in this thread I read 21 different names. 6 of them are Pro-patch, 14 of them are Con-patch, 1 is N/A.

That means there are over 2x as many posts here that don’t like the patch, compared the posts that are white knighting Anet’s decision.

Also keep in mind the title of this thread and realize the results will be skewed toward the Pro-patch people. In other threads its all torches and pitchforks and the amount of “we don’t like this patch” people far outweigh the people who think it’s a new and exciting experience.

Bertrand.3057:

Yenn.9185:

Critwrench.8432:

Glory.1493:

its unfair to others who likes the feature patch.u made it seems game gonna die tomorrow while majority have no problem with this patch.it is just unhappy guys speak more.u can just delete the game and leave if u dont like it,but whats the point to post it here.nothing changed on every map. ppl still enjoy this game.could u just leave it alone and play someting else if it bothered u so much.

“while majority have no problem with this patch”

Which is why there’s dozens of threads beaming about how good the changes are.

Oh wait.

You think all the forum post in the last few days combined accounts for 51% or more of a ALL ACTIVE gw2 players? I mean I dunno the numbers, but it should be way more.

Maybe the 51% “just delete the game and leave” because they “dont like it”, and ask “whats the point to post it here”. Maybe I’m just speculating.

Wouldn’t that be something. I’m sure I’ll notice if half the player base suddenly went poof.

Zoso.8279:

Aicus.3174:

Kaleban.9834:

Charleston Chew.1209:

…the forum warriors thinking that they got it all figured it out, annoyed at the rest of us for our inability to see their glorious vision.

The forum is the place for feedback. Statistically speaking, the forum is a percentile slice of the greater player base as a whole. Therefore its logical to extrapolate player response on forums as representative of the greater whole, with of course a certain margin of error.

Were there no value to forum members’ feedback, there would be no reason to operate said forum. Given that most games today operate discussion and balance forums, its logical to conclude that forum feedback is valuable as a development tool, and is representative of the overall player base.

To claim that “negative feedback” is unfair or unwarranted is laughably naive, and to also claim that those who post said feedback somehow are non-representative of the greater whole is also foolish. The reason I claim irony in your post is that every single word of it, according to your own logic, applies to you. And for you to be unaware of how forums represent player populations yet still be able to comment about you and the cheerleaders somehow representing the majority is downright silly.

What I see so far is that the forum is for people to bash the dev for doing whatever they don’t like, for example bashing the dev for killing QD champ train, Blix event spam, making key farming harder and unpleasant and basically everything that farmers think are going to affect their profit.

There are some constructive feedback and disvussion but those are scarce.

Hey >:O I’m a farmer not all of us are greedy! For example the way they have Frostgorge and Breaking the Ice event atm is perfect in my opinion!!!! No exploit just fun for farmers!

Oh ok, farm away then. Maybe I will join in some times.

Yenn.9185:

Wouldn’t that be something. I’m sure I’ll notice if half the player base suddenly went poof.

Not so sure about that. Remember that we as individuals are not seeing half of the player base and that the megaserver system is designed to conceal (purposefully or otherwise) or lessen the impact of population drop on an individual’s perceptions of the game population as a whole.

Aicus.3174:

Zoso.8279:

Aicus.3174:

Kaleban.9834:

Charleston Chew.1209:

…the forum warriors thinking that they got it all figured it out, annoyed at the rest of us for our inability to see their glorious vision.

The forum is the place for feedback. Statistically speaking, the forum is a percentile slice of the greater player base as a whole. Therefore its logical to extrapolate player response on forums as representative of the greater whole, with of course a certain margin of error.

Were there no value to forum members’ feedback, there would be no reason to operate said forum. Given that most games today operate discussion and balance forums, its logical to conclude that forum feedback is valuable as a development tool, and is representative of the overall player base.

To claim that “negative feedback” is unfair or unwarranted is laughably naive, and to also claim that those who post said feedback somehow are non-representative of the greater whole is also foolish. The reason I claim irony in your post is that every single word of it, according to your own logic, applies to you. And for you to be unaware of how forums represent player populations yet still be able to comment about you and the cheerleaders somehow representing the majority is downright silly.

What I see so far is that the forum is for people to bash the dev for doing whatever they don’t like, for example bashing the dev for killing QD champ train, Blix event spam, making key farming harder and unpleasant and basically everything that farmers think are going to affect their profit.

There are some constructive feedback and disvussion but those are scarce.

Hey >:O I’m a farmer not all of us are greedy! For example the way they have Frostgorge and Breaking the Ice event atm is perfect in my opinion!!!! No exploit just fun for farmers!

Oh ok, farm away then. Maybe I will join in some times.

Your always welcomed!

Glory.1493:

its unfair to others who likes the feature patch.u made it seems game gonna die tomorrow while majority have no problem with this patch.it is just unhappy guys speak more.u can just delete the game and leave if u dont like it,but whats the point to post it here.nothing changed on every map. ppl still enjoy this game.could u just leave it alone and play someting else if it bothered u so much.

No. And I’m saying that overall liking the patch, too.

The lesson ‘players don’t like their freedom taken away’ is something ANet could have learned from the April traits ‘feature’.

But they didn’t bother, and sending their lead designer in four month later to stumble around, admit that he can’t be bothered to read the whole thread and ask the fans for a quick fix for the problem isn’t going to fix the discontent.

Same here, have a decisive statement acknowledging the problem and promising to hot fix it would quell the complains. But no, community ‘management’ is happy to twiddle their thumbs and let the kittenstorm blow over and into the face of the community.

So every thread is on ANet and ANet alone. If that’s how they want to handle things, that’s how it will be handled. Kitten and bile and all.

EDIT: Disclaimer: ‘Kitten and bile and all’ does, of course, not include heavy profanity and threats and personal attacks and all. Thought I’d add that in the light of the last weeks.

Ashen.2907:

Yenn.9185:

Wouldn’t that be something. I’m sure I’ll notice if half the player base suddenly went poof.

Not so sure about that. Remember that we as individuals are not seeing half of the player base and that the megaserver system is designed to conceal (purposefully or otherwise) or lessen the impact of population drop on an individual’s perceptions of the game population as a whole.

WvW will definitely notice.

Porterhouse.6304:

Aicus.3174:

So where did you get the numbers that those who dislike the patch outnumbered those that like the patch by 2 to 3 times?

My whole guild got no problems with it, most people I met think it is OK with rooms for improvement, my friends got nothing to complain about, my friend’s guild is cool with it as well, so maybe it is actually the other way around?

Well, you can read the forums here and see more dislikes for the update just by skimming through the threads.

But let’s go with math. At this point in this thread I read 21 different names. 6 of them are Pro-patch, 14 of them are Con-patch, 1 is N/A.

That means there are over 2x as many posts here that don’t like the patch, compared the posts that are white knighting Anet’s decision.

Also keep in mind the title of this thread and realize the results will be skewed toward the Pro-patch people. In other threads its all torches and pitchforks and the amount of “we don’t like this patch” people far outweigh the people who think it’s a new and exciting experience.

Hang on a sec, a bit of misinformation here.

Not like the NGE, which is not the whole patch. We’re talking specifically about leveling changes. And presumably no one minds getting rewards at every level while leveling, or most people don’t so it’s not even the entire NGE. If you’re going to provide information let’s look at it.

A bunch of people on a forum that have been playing for probably a year or two and have maxed level characters don’t like changes to the beginning of a game made for people who obviously aren’t play, and are certainly not posting on the forums.

These changes were’t made for you. If they made a change to make dugeons harder, more people on the forums would complain than not. But that doesn’t mean most people playing the game wouldn’t think that was a bad idea. The forums have the brightest, most dedicated players as a rule. The ones that read and write and think more deeply about their gaming experience.

I don’t think we’re the audience these changes were made for. So yes, if only 2/3s of the audience doesn’t like 1 relatively small part of the patch, then I’d say it’s not as bad as people are making it out to be.

Who’s affected by these changes. Only people who want to level alts or people just starting out. I’m an altoholic and I like the changes.

A lot of people complaining probably don’t roll many alts.

I suspect we’ll see a level 40 scroll in the game soon and most of the complaints will die away, since level 40 is when you unlock your elite.

Glory.1493:

its unfair to others who likes the feature patch.u made it seems game gonna die tomorrow while majority have no problem with this patch.it is just unhappy guys speak more.u can just delete the game and leave if u dont like it,but whats the point to post it here.nothing changed on every map. ppl still enjoy this game.could u just leave it alone and play someting else if it bothered u so much.

Oh good, it’s one of the Chinese users this abomination of a patch was intended for.

Porterhouse.6304:

Aicus.3174:

So where did you get the numbers that those who dislike the patch outnumbered those that like the patch by 2 to 3 times?

My whole guild got no problems with it, most people I met think it is OK with rooms for improvement, my friends got nothing to complain about, my friend’s guild is cool with it as well, so maybe it is actually the other way around?

Well, you can read the forums here and see more dislikes for the update just by skimming through the threads.

But let’s go with math. At this point in this thread I read 21 different names. 6 of them are Pro-patch, 14 of them are Con-patch, 1 is N/A.

That means there are over 2x as many posts here that don’t like the patch, compared the posts that are white knighting Anet’s decision.

Also keep in mind the title of this thread and realize the results will be skewed toward the Pro-patch people. In other threads its all torches and pitchforks and the amount of “we don’t like this patch” people far outweigh the people who think it’s a new and exciting experience.

People that are happy with the game usually don’t come on forum to post, they just continue to enjoy the game. I only come to the forum few times in the 2 years I am playing, first time to report a problem on my friend’s account, second time to report a bug on the Superior Rune of Afflicted death nova last year, third time to suggest a change to world boss event because I am fed up with people spamming auto attack and afking.

I wouldn’t even know about all these complains if it is not for me coming to the forum to check up my own thread on patch day.

Vayne.8563:

It happens fairly often though, sometimes with less provocation than we have now. The ascended weapons thing took over the forum and Anet didn’t change it. I didn’t like ascended weapons either.

Flooding the forums with this kind of complaint so soon after a patch has consequences for the entire game.

As it should. That’s kind of the point. I guess people would vent anyway, but I think most people would like some acknowledgment that things are screwed up severely, and will be fixed soon.

Some people who post here are genuinely concerned about the game. Some have a bone to pick, no longer play the game and just want to see the game do badly. That’s human nature. Every one of these hot button issues is exacerbated by these people and it becomes a mob instead of an intelligent discussion. Emotion rules instead of logical.

Unavoidable, even as I wish otherwise. The flip-side of this is that, if you do something that riles up the customer base so much that they descend with torches and pitchforks, the inkling in a rational mind might be that something somewhere went very wrong. Even if not everybody makes a logical argument, you still did something to make them mad, and they’re still customers.

[…skipping over points for brevity…]

If most of the complaints were just a bug, then Anet has taken a huge hit with people leaving, people uninstalling, people not buying gems or telling their friends, all for something that may (or may not) just be a bug.

And if it is a bug, the forums have done Anet a disservice and it hurts everyone.

And yeah, bugs suck. But I’d like to see what the patch is supposed to be and give it some time before I take out a pitchfork.

I mean, the pointer thing that is bugged here works fine in China. It’s obviously a bug.

ArenaNet is well aware of this fact. So why would they push out a patch that is so severely bugged (if it is, in fact, bugged)? The bottom line is that they either 1) did this on purpose and people are justifiably throwing in the towel, or they 2) released a shoddy, broken patch, in which case it’s still hard to defend them.

If the horrid level-gating has been misapplied, ArenaNet personnel have certainly been quite slow in clarifying this to all the veteran players with alts, who have had the rug jerked out from under them. You’d think a forum being “taken over” would warrant a swift, soothing response or two, no? These complaints aren’t just limited to this forum, mind you. They’re all throughout game and other sites as well.

10/10 thread. OP makes very sound and convincing arguments. The moderators definitely should not lock/delete this thread asap.

Let’s be all carebear and give Team ANet an easy time?!?! Pfft… um no. How I see it.. there are more people bashing it here then there are defending it…

Now I’ve played a lot of MMOs, but when you get a fairly large amount of Vocal people at once and you ignore them… The game usually comes to a crashing halt right afterwards with the bare minimal amount of people to keep the game running. It’s just about happened to quite a few MMOs… I say let them be vocal and see how it turns out…

UndeadRufus.6832:

Vayne.8563:

It happens fairly often though, sometimes with less provocation than we have now. The ascended weapons thing took over the forum and Anet didn’t change it. I didn’t like ascended weapons either.

Flooding the forums with this kind of complaint so soon after a patch has consequences for the entire game.

As it should. That’s kind of the point. I guess people would vent anyway, but I think most people would like some acknowledgment that things are screwed up severely, and will be fixed soon.

Some people who post here are genuinely concerned about the game. Some have a bone to pick, no longer play the game and just want to see the game do badly. That’s human nature. Every one of these hot button issues is exacerbated by these people and it becomes a mob instead of an intelligent discussion. Emotion rules instead of logical.

Unavoidable, even as I wish otherwise. The flip-side of this is that, if you do something that riles up the customer base so much that they descend with torches and pitchforks, the inkling in a rational mind might be that something somewhere went very wrong. Even if not everybody makes a logical argument, you still did something to make them mad, and they’re still customers.

[…skipping over points for brevity…]

If most of the complaints were just a bug, then Anet has taken a huge hit with people leaving, people uninstalling, people not buying gems or telling their friends, all for something that may (or may not) just be a bug.

And if it is a bug, the forums have done Anet a disservice and it hurts everyone.

And yeah, bugs suck. But I’d like to see what the patch is supposed to be and give it some time before I take out a pitchfork.

I mean, the pointer thing that is bugged here works fine in China. It’s obviously a bug.

ArenaNet is well aware of this fact. So why would they push out a patch that is so severely bugged (if it is, in fact, bugged)? The bottom line is that they either 1) did this on purpose and people are justifiably throwing in the towel, or they 2) released a shoddy, broken patch, in which case it’s still hard to defend them.

If the horrid level-gating has been misapplied, ArenaNet personnel have certainly been quite slow in clarifying this to all the veteran players with alts, who have had the rug jerked out from under them. You’d think a forum being “taken over” would warrant a swift, soothing response or two, no? These complaints aren’t just limited to this forum, mind you. They’re all throughout game and other sites as well.

Very few big companies will give you a swift response because they’re not free too. Meetings have to be held. Things have to be figured out.

They still don’t know where the bug us. It works find in China, so why does it not work here.

It even probably works on the test server.

Anyone with programming experience will tell you that sometimes, even if you have something working perfectly, soon as you move it to the live server it can behave in unexpected ways.

Vayne.8563:

Very few big companies will give you a swift response because they’re not free too. Meetings have to be held. Things have to be figured out.

Anet is not a big company.

Even so the only swift response I would expect to see (and have) is acknowledgement by Anet that certain things are in fact bugs, or are in fact working as intended. Anything more than that is unneeded at this time.

Vayne.8563:

They still don’t know where the bug us. It works find in China, so why does it not work here.

It even probably works on the test server.

Anyone with programming experience will tell you that sometimes, even if you have something working perfectly, soon as you move it to the live server it can behave in unexpected ways.

Completely agreed.

The problem is because 80% of the “Feedback” on this forum is a rage post,it isn’t a valid feedback when people type in capslock and the word “kitten” is written all over the place.

I hate reading negative things about things I like,and to be honest,there are a lot of complaints that are just to show off “hurr durrr look how I can judge things,kitten arenanet is literally hitler look how I design my games at work I am so much better,wow” trying to be intellectual by being a jerk to everyone in ArenaNet.

Also,I feel like some people just want attention.
“Hey guys,look,I’m quitting the game,I am 5edgy6Gw2”

Vayne.8563:

Very few big companies will give you a swift response because they’re not free too. Meetings have to be held. Things have to be figured out.

I think a lot of players have already figured out that they don’t like some of the changes — to the point of “taking over the forum,” to borrow your words. So surely ArenaNet has figured that out, whether the underlying specifics of the problem(s) are known or not.

They still don’t know where the bug us. It works find in China, so why does it not work here.

It even probably works on the test server.

Anyone with programming experience will tell you that sometimes, even if you have something working perfectly, soon as you move it to the live server it can behave in unexpected ways.

I write code and have done so for a living at various points in life, so I don’t need a condescending crash course in the finer points of development, well intended as it may be. Crap happens, yes. That doesn’t necessarily absolve the shoveler of said crap, but as I noted earlier, I can get over a bug swarm if it’s fixed.

Is the Chinese game level-gated? I don’t know. If it is, then the bulk of these complaints are not really about bugs, but about ArenaNet’s decision-making.

Regardless of this, asking players to shut up about their problems just reinforces their sense of annoyance, even if you think the complaints are largely insipid.

Criticism is unfair now? Fantastic, I AM in the Twilight Zone!

Nerve.9581:

Criticism is unfair now? Fantastic, I AM in the Twilight Zone!

It’s not so much the criticism as much as how it is delivered. We don’t like negative criticism here. All criticism must be positive. You either have to suggest ways that Arenanet can improve the game or you must POLITELY tell them how much the new patch is full of kitten.

Nerve.9581:

Criticism is unfair now? Fantastic, I AM in the Twilight Zone!

Not the Twilight Zone. Airplane!

So, you are complaining about all the people complaining?

If ANet started a “Game Updates: New Player Experience” thread to accept feedback like they did with the various features back in April, maybe there would be less new topics starting up (or at least somewhere for the moderators to merge threads into).

The lack of an official feedback thread either means they forgot to start one or they aren’t interested in hearing feedback, because their tens of thousands of people who don’t play Guild Wars 2 have already told them how we should play Guild Wars 2.

Well after over 2 years the lack of content is devastating. I have played over 3700 hours and over 70% of that time in pure money grinding cause it’s apparently the “endgame” in this game. Sure we can “make” dungeons more difficult by removing armors but that’s not how endgame suppose to be.

After exotic gear and weapons this game turned out to be super easy and simple with easy content. No real strategies are used in pve content. Targeted audience is people who have families and no time to really play games and also people who are playing games/mmo’s for the first time.

If you compare gw2 for example almost 2 years old game archeage the difference in content is huge and this new 1.7 patch to archeage in korea added more content than gw2 has produced during these 2 years and it’s not like NCsoft doesn’t have enough money to put on gw2. It seems like the fastest selling mmo was the thing they wanted in order to get more money.

This whole update is unfair to the people who have been playing this game for a long time and don’t need all this level gating.

We have the right to provide feedback and voice our complaints when a product we payed for and invested in has been changed for the worse (at least for many of us).

People need to stop referring to the issues in this patch solely as bugs because that’s simply not true, even Colin admits that. There are a few minor bugs that happened and need to be fixed but there were some very poorly implemented gating issues that were not bugs just not well thought out. You can claim they was miscommunication between importing the content from China to the west but that isn’t a bug it’s a screw up.
Also many of us have rolled many alts and I speak from experience, we have 34 characters between my wife and I so I can clearly speak to the fact that I despise the NPE in it’s new format. Anet can adjust what they would like to bring the skills in line etc. and even giving them the benefit of the doubt regarding it being a miscue on their end I don’t like the gating at all. After 2 years I don’t need the helping hand and should have the choice to completely bypass this entire change when creating new characters.

Glory.1493:

its unfair to others who likes the feature patch.u made it seems game gonna die tomorrow while majority have no problem with this patch.it is just unhappy guys speak more.u can just delete the game and leave if u dont like it,but whats the point to post it here.nothing changed on every map. ppl still enjoy this game.could u just leave it alone and play someting else if it bothered u so much.

its unfair of you to be so negativ about criticism. stop doin posts we don´t need such negativity.

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

Very few big companies will give you a swift response because they’re not free too. Meetings have to be held. Things have to be figured out.

Anet is not a big company.

Even so the only swift response I would expect to see (and have) is acknowledgement by Anet that certain things are in fact bugs, or are in fact working as intended. Anything more than that is unneeded at this time.

Vayne.8563:

They still don’t know where the bug us. It works find in China, so why does it not work here.

It even probably works on the test server.

Anyone with programming experience will tell you that sometimes, even if you have something working perfectly, soon as you move it to the live server it can behave in unexpected ways.

Completely agreed.

Anet isn’t a big company…NcSoft is. I don’t think Anet can just say anything they want. Some things, particularly big things, have to be cleared and even then, there may be rules involved in what can and can’t be said.

Bottom line is, Anet is a big enough company even without NcSoft to hold a meeting before making a response. Colin made yet another response today in more detail.

Read this thread … grabs popcorn

“I’m ready to watch the show”

@OP

If you are happy with the updates that is great!! But bear in mind, that there are also many who are not. Those who are not happy, have a responsibility to let Anet know. If there was no negative feedback, then they wouldn’t know what needs to change. Now all negative feedback doesn’t have to be rude, or mean, but still lets them know that something isn’t right. If you, and others are happy with it, please, please, please, share that as well. What are the things about it that you like? Why do you like it? is there anything that should change? Etc.

There is an unofficial feedback thread here (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Feature-pack-9-9-feedback/page/8#post4396285) and it doesn’t have to be negative. If you have a positive experience thats good! We need more positive feedback. It helps to see both sides. Please consider posting your thoughts there. Thanks!

Glory.1493:

its unfair to others who likes the feature patch.

Don’t read the forums?

I mean, I don’t often use the whole “just avoid it” answer, but it’s not like you need to view the forums to download the latest patch and play the game.

There’s something you, and others who make similar threads, have to realize about internet forums: An internet forum thrives on controversy. How often do you see a thread full of positive feedback and general goodwill toward anyone and everyone that lasts more than a couple of pages?

The reason such threads get buried isn’t because posters have nothing but bad attitudes. It’s because people quickly run out of things to say. Controversy, on the other hand, keeps threads alive and kicking because human beings are experts at extending arguments into infinity, endlessly thinking that something will come out of it.

Are “hate” threads necessary? (e.g. threads that can’t even be called feedback) No. They aren’t. And many of them get locked. But threads that have a distinctly negative perspective are just part of what keeps the forums active. Kind of like yours here; despite your message being an intended positive one, yours is essentially another “complaint” thread.

And so as it goes, people who disagree with your complaint will argue it until the end of the universe.

I’ll stop complaining when they fix the Personal Story. But until the ‘Greatest Fear’ line is put back in, and the Orr chapters are back in order I will continue to express my raging displeasure.