what is horizontal progression?
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Increasing the level cap shares some qualities with adding a new gear tier, but it’s also different in a number of ways that make it a lot more palatable.
- First: Increasing the level cap changes the game. Going from level 80 to 90 means every character has 10 more Trait Points. This changes the game already on its own – and it doesn’t stretch the imagination to think that it might come with more traits. Adding gear with better stats just makes the numbers go up, and doesn’t change anything.
- Second: Guild Wars 2 has a flat experience curve for leveling. If it only took as long to go from 80-90 as it did from 70-80 (or at the least, only took marginally longer), then that would be palatable (though again, only because the game is actually changing – if there were no trait points from 80-90 and all that happened was that the numbers went up, then it once again becomes unacceptable). If it suddenly took 5 million experience points to go up a level, the reaction would be very different.
- Third: Increasing the level cap, but not adding new tiers, would presumably mean that the rarity of ‘top level’ items would remain the same. If a level 90 Exotic is only as hard to get (at level 90) as a level 80 Exotic is to get (at level 80), then I think most people could deal with that. If it suddenly takes 15g and/or ten hours of grinding just to get one equipment piece, this suddenly becomes a lot less okay.
- Fourth: In the scenario described, the level cap comes along with an expansion. Generally speaking, I think people are more likely to give a developer more latitude to make game-changing design decisions when they’re coupled to a major, boxed expansion. In particular, a player is free to look at the features and content of an expansion, and say “Yes, I want that” or “No, I’m not interested”, and either buy or not buy the expansion pack based on what they think of the content it contains.
If a level cap increase can justify itself, and it comes at a point (an expansion pack) where people are already expecting to either re-commit, jump on, or jump off of the game, and it’s not too egregious of a grind, then I’m willing to give it a chance. If it’s just there to be a bullet point on the back of the box and to extend the amount of time that people have to play before they get to the fun part, then no thanks.
BINGO!
Essentially my sentiments exactly. Vertical Progression in and of it’s self is not “evil” or “anti-casual”. What and How it’s implemented along with the context in which it is presented and it’s “ratio” to Horizontal Progression is where it’s defined as lending it’s self more to the casual or hardcore player.
Increasing the level cap shares some qualities with adding a new gear tier, but it’s also different in a number of ways that make it a lot more palatable.
- First: Increasing the level cap changes the game. Going from level 80 to 90 means every character has 10 more Trait Points. This changes the game already on its own – and it doesn’t stretch the imagination to think that it might come with more traits. Adding gear with better stats just makes the numbers go up, and doesn’t change anything.
- Second: Guild Wars 2 has a flat experience curve for leveling. If it only took as long to go from 80-90 as it did from 70-80 (or at the least, only took marginally longer), then that would be palatable (though again, only because the game is actually changing – if there were no trait points from 80-90 and all that happened was that the numbers went up, then it once again becomes unacceptable). If it suddenly took 5 million experience points to go up a level, the reaction would be very different.
- Third: Increasing the level cap, but not adding new tiers, would presumably mean that the rarity of ‘top level’ items would remain the same. If a level 90 Exotic is only as hard to get (at level 90) as a level 80 Exotic is to get (at level 80), then I think most people could deal with that. If it suddenly takes 15g and/or ten hours of grinding just to get one equipment piece, this suddenly becomes a lot less okay.
- Fourth: In the scenario described, the level cap comes along with an expansion. Generally speaking, I think people are more likely to give a developer more latitude to make game-changing design decisions when they’re coupled to a major, boxed expansion. In particular, a player is free to look at the features and content of an expansion, and say “Yes, I want that” or “No, I’m not interested”, and either buy or not buy the expansion pack based on what they think of the content it contains.
If a level cap increase can justify itself, and it comes at a point (an expansion pack) where people are already expecting to either re-commit, jump on, or jump off of the game, and it’s not too egregious of a grind, then I’m willing to give it a chance. If it’s just there to be a bullet point on the back of the box and to extend the amount of time that people have to play before they get to the fun part, then no thanks.
So I’m not saying your wrong, but the main argument against current affairs is that people expected a certain plateau, and they want to be able to take a break for 2 months, come back, and still not be disadvantaged.
Adding levels now increases the plateau, leaving anyone who took a break at a disadvantage they have to work to fix, and there is still an inevitable stat increase. Just like there is with Ascended.
Why would players be against a small increase now, versus accepting a whole new 10 levels, the need for a set of 90 gear and whatnot just because of an expansion? Even if optional, wouldn’t these level 90 characters still be in WvW? ( with upscaling, any level 80’s would be pushed to 90, but lack gear no?)
Wouldn’t this change in turn create more turmoil?
(edit: I would like to add for anyone who skips to this point in the discussion, I’m just trying to spur actual discussion, and none of what I am stating is actually known as fact. It’s all hypothetical and I am interested to see what people think)
Lord Lefteris – Engineer [Sanctum of Rall]
(edited by tkalamba.2541)
BINGO!
Essentially my sentiments exactly. Vertical Progression in and of it’s self is not “evil” or “anti-casual”. What and How it’s implemented along with the context in which it is presented and it’s “ratio” to Horizontal Progression is where it’s defined as lending it’s self more to the casual or hardcore player.
In this game, where contributed damage on a mob determines whether you can loot. Any form of verticality in the progression has a DRASTIC impact on everyone else.
In mmos where the first tap gives you the kill credit, vertical progression can be eschewed easily in favor of horizontal progression.
In this game, if you insert vertical progression, you are immediately putting anyone playing this game for fun rather than as a second job at a disadvantage in their personal gaming experience
They suddenly get less loot from what they attack, lower karma in dynamic events, etc.
This does not even get into the particulars of how the currency for said rewards are obtained.
Horizontal Progression is advancing through the game at the same capacity/strength throughout all the content (more or less).
For instance, GW1 is a Horizontal Progression game. You get max weapons and armor easily and early. Then you just play through the content in the game without worrying about getting new gear and having to grind out a new tier every year or so. All content is geared towards the gear you got in the beginning, with nothing stronger to make you feel left behind if you are not grinding the newest dungeon for the newest tier.
You progress through the game with the same strength from since you started, just experience new content. Hopefully that is an understandable explanation.
The reason some find this better, is cause it allows you freedom to play when you want and how you want.
In Vertical Progression, you are constantly chasing that carrot to get the next strongest gear. But you never ever reach the end. New gear is always added and it is a never ending cycle. And if you just hit max level and go PvP, you will always get destroyed by someone more geared than you. And you can’t experience new content unless you grind old content to get gear so you can survive to get the new gear.
With Horizontal Progression, you never have to do that. You will always be equal, no matter what new content comes out. You don’t feel forced to have to grind a new set of gear to be up to par with everyone else. You don’t feel forced to play 24/7 to be competitive cause your gear is outdated. Your gear will always be the best anyone can get, and you will always be able to participate in any new content cause gear will never be stronger. So you will never have that feeling of being left behind or not up to par.
So what the hell is the point of having the gear in the first place?! Freaking pointless.
There is absolutely no character progression in this game, unless you consider completing some scrub dungeon with no benefits as progression. Stale and boring. I keep coming back because I ask myself “Why did I quit” and am very quickly and thoroughly shown. So no, you don’t have the freedom “to play how you want” because if I did have the freedom, I would see my character grow in strength. Instead I get to grind out legendaries for the 4th time for fashion. What deep gameplay. At least I get to “explore” right? Lmao.
This thread is 4 years old. That guy isn’t likely to answer you.
It only showed month and day. I thought it was 4 days ago.
You can click on the date to change it to years.
You can also hover your mouse over it for the full date.
Please be aware of the date the last few posts were made to ensure it is an active topic. As this topic is over four years old, I’m going to wrap it up. Thanks!
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