Guild Wars 2

penelopehannibal.8947:

yolo swaggins.2570:

And suddenly the melee staff is not a melee staff but a not-so-great hybrid design like p/p.

I’m wondering how Pistol/Pistol is a hybrid between Ranged & Melee confused smily

p/p can’t decide of its a condition weapon or a power weapon. Staff won’t be able to decide if its a melee weapon or a ranged weapon. You see the comparison? X can’t decide if its a Y weapon or Z weapon.

Gerikstoof.9563:

Why do people assume Thiefs are getting a rifle? A rifle is a stand still and shoot weapon, taking aim for a while and deal tons of damage with a single hit (Warrior Burst skill for example).
A thief, on the other hand, is all about mobility, fast movement around the battlefield and getting close to the enemy to assassinate them. Or in the case of the shortbow and pistol to cast trick shots to control/distract/apply debuffs.
A rifle doesn’t even fit close to what a Thief is supposed to be, the weapon is too slow and clunky for the class.

A melee staff can be used as a fighting stick, allowing the user to perform very acrobatic moves and attacks like for example a pole vault over the enemy or making the enemy trip by lifting the enemy’s legs with the staff. This DOES fit in the Thief spectrum and would make much more sense in my opinion.

You are missing the point were the Elite Specializations are supposed to add “a new way to play” the profession. An acrobatic melee staff could look really great, but will not be a new way to play Thief.

IMO, what would make sense will be:

a) Rifle Thief: a Thief that sacrifice stealth and mobility in exchange for high damage from really long distances, with high cooldowns, and great ranged team support. This is a paced, very calculated, high risk high reward playstyle that doesn’t really exist in the game right now.

b) AOE Melee Staff Thief: a Thief with not so great single target damage, but with good AOE cleave, some close and mid range team support, and probably more tanky than the actual builds. This is a very typical playstyle right now, but IMO not a playstyle Thief already have.

Personally I prefer Rifle alternative by far, because we already have melee enough, and a real camper should be very interesting to play.

yolo swaggins.2570:

p/p can’t decide of its a condition weapon or a power weapon. Staff won’t be able to decide if its a melee weapon or a ranged weapon. You see the comparison? X can’t decide if its a Y weapon or Z weapon.

I 100% agree with you on the dual pistols part, but how do you know about the staff? Despite evidence supporting staff, we don’t even truly know if it’s the thieves elite weapon, let alone the skills that are going to come along with it.

Side note, I’d prefer the staff to be a melee weapon, as a magic-wielding, ranged “shadow assassin” theme would fit better for a focus or scepter in my opinion.

Seabreeze.8437:

yolo swaggins.2570:

p/p can’t decide of its a condition weapon or a power weapon. Staff won’t be able to decide if its a melee weapon or a ranged weapon. You see the comparison? X can’t decide if its a Y weapon or Z weapon.

I 100% agree with you on the dual pistols part, but how do you know about the staff? Despite evidence supporting staff, we don’t even truly know if it’s the thieves elite weapon, let alone the skills that are going to come along with it.

Side note, I’d prefer the staff to be a melee weapon, as a magic-wielding, ranged “shadow assassin” theme would fit better for a focus or scepter in my opinion.

people data mined a picture of “staff theif” (you know…like how they datamined a ele with sword. look how true that turned out)
and now they assume that they getting a melee staff like revanent(you know. the thing people hated for its horrible dmg and cried about)

thief getting ranged staff…doesnt really make sense. as we have so many ranged staffs, and even ranger staff is ranged.

theif melee staff, is like wise a bad move. cause look at revanant’s reaction to it. now thief players are assuming a staff will be “good AoE” when in all likely hood its going to (if its real) be pathetic dmg that is a gimmick, and nothing more.

Rifle has the potential to a new playstyle. with dmg potential while avoiding making any of theif’s current weapons irrelevant (they will all have their roles wile rifle is stationary long range)

but staff would either be horrible underperforming and weak.

or

would replace sword as the theif AoE melee weapon.

or

would replace shortbow as the ranged AoE weapon.

in the end, it doesn’t fit.

And rifle will replace P/P and Shortbow ranged weapon role …

arenta.2953:

Seabreeze.8437:

yolo swaggins.2570:

p/p can’t decide of its a condition weapon or a power weapon. Staff won’t be able to decide if its a melee weapon or a ranged weapon. You see the comparison? X can’t decide if its a Y weapon or Z weapon.

I 100% agree with you on the dual pistols part, but how do you know about the staff? Despite evidence supporting staff, we don’t even truly know if it’s the thieves elite weapon, let alone the skills that are going to come along with it.

Side note, I’d prefer the staff to be a melee weapon, as a magic-wielding, ranged “shadow assassin” theme would fit better for a focus or scepter in my opinion.

people data mined a picture of “staff theif” (you know…like how they datamined a ele with sword. look how true that turned out)
and now they assume that they getting a melee staff like revanent(you know. the thing people hated for its horrible dmg and cried about)

thief getting ranged staff…doesnt really make sense. as we have so many ranged staffs, and even ranger staff is ranged.

theif melee staff, is like wise a bad move. cause look at revanant’s reaction to it. now thief players are assuming a staff will be “good AoE” when in all likely hood its going to (if its real) be pathetic dmg that is a gimmick, and nothing more.

Rifle has the potential to a new playstyle. with dmg potential while avoiding making any of theif’s current weapons irrelevant (they will all have their roles wile rifle is stationary long range)

but staff would either be horrible underperforming and weak.

or

would replace sword as the theif AoE melee weapon.

or

would replace shortbow as the ranged AoE weapon.

in the end, it doesn’t fit.

People commented on revenant staff based on its numbers not its playstyle or its skills, numbers ahve since been adjusted.

As for the datamining, yes , it is not official till it’s announced. But your comparison can be improved a bit. See the thief staff (both picture and weapon) were datamined at the same time as the Ele warhorn (and the picture used on the spec line). The ele warhorn came true, so…

But yeah, ofcourse we will not know till its officially announced.

Whether it fits depends on the actual weapon skills, of which we know nothing. Yes thief already has dagger and sword mainhand. Warrior has sword/gs/hammer/axe/etc mainhand, yet they all function differently, until we see the weapon and its skills its hard to judge whether it brings something new to the class. There’s more to playstyles then melee or ranged.

I mean dont get me wrong rifle would be a cool weapon, but atm there is more pointing towards staff (recent datamining) than to rifle.

Either way, i’d be happy with either. Can’t wait to hear what the spec of thief will be.

stof.9341:

And rifle will replace P/P and Shortbow ranged weapon role …

no

Shortbow is a AoE weapon with mobility
Pistol Pistol is a mid range mobile ranged weapon. in addition to its combination possibilities with sword and dagger, its mostly focused on moving and shooting

rifle would be long range, but stationary (aka, like warrior’s GS’s 100 blade strike and ranger’s LB’s barrage skill. rifle theif would need to stay still when using skills)

and unlike pistol and shortbow whose dmg is the same at all range.

rifle would do less dmg the closer to target it is.
similar to ranger LB

so pistol/pistol is like ranger shortbow
shortbow thief is….well like something range doesn’t have (Aka a AoE ranged……pre patch traps?)
and rifle theif is a ranger longbow

dsslive.8473:

arenta.2953:

Seabreeze.8437:

yolo swaggins.2570:

p/p can’t decide of its a condition weapon or a power weapon. Staff won’t be able to decide if its a melee weapon or a ranged weapon. You see the comparison? X can’t decide if its a Y weapon or Z weapon.

I 100% agree with you on the dual pistols part, but how do you know about the staff? Despite evidence supporting staff, we don’t even truly know if it’s the thieves elite weapon, let alone the skills that are going to come along with it.

Side note, I’d prefer the staff to be a melee weapon, as a magic-wielding, ranged “shadow assassin” theme would fit better for a focus or scepter in my opinion.

people data mined a picture of “staff theif” (you know…like how they datamined a ele with sword. look how true that turned out)
and now they assume that they getting a melee staff like revanent(you know. the thing people hated for its horrible dmg and cried about)

thief getting ranged staff…doesnt really make sense. as we have so many ranged staffs, and even ranger staff is ranged.

theif melee staff, is like wise a bad move. cause look at revanant’s reaction to it. now thief players are assuming a staff will be “good AoE” when in all likely hood its going to (if its real) be pathetic dmg that is a gimmick, and nothing more.

Rifle has the potential to a new playstyle. with dmg potential while avoiding making any of theif’s current weapons irrelevant (they will all have their roles wile rifle is stationary long range)

but staff would either be horrible underperforming and weak.

or

would replace sword as the theif AoE melee weapon.

or

would replace shortbow as the ranged AoE weapon.

in the end, it doesn’t fit.

People commented on revenant staff based on its numbers not its playstyle or its skills, numbers ahve since been adjusted.

As for the datamining, yes , it is not official till it’s announced. But your comparison can be improved a bit. See the thief staff (both picture and weapon) were datamined at the same time as the Ele warhorn (and the picture used on the spec line). The ele warhorn came true, so…

But yeah, ofcourse we will not know till its officially announced.

Whether it fits depends on the actual weapon skills, of which we know nothing. Yes thief already has dagger and sword mainhand. Warrior has sword/gs/hammer/axe/etc mainhand, yet they all function differently, until we see the weapon and its skills its hard to judge whether it brings something new to the class. There’s more to playstyles then melee or ranged.

I mean dont get me wrong rifle would be a cool weapon, but atm there is more pointing towards staff (recent datamining) than to rifle.

Either way, i’d be happy with either. Can’t wait to hear what the spec of thief will be.

if we talk about datamining

i’ll point to beta test datamining of vanilla GW2

when Thief concept art still had rifle in it
and thief datamining had rifle skills

but before release, it got delayed, and then launch came, and it got forgotten(or was it? Anet was it forgotten, delayed, or postponed?)

so rifle has had dibs far longer, going so far to have concept art with game’s launch.

and other than concept art. we have a character in game who is a relic of that
https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/192152/800px-Welcome_to_the_order_of_whispers.jpg

yep. Riel
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Riel_Darkwater

arenta.2953:

dsslive.8473:

arenta.2953:

Seabreeze.8437:

yolo swaggins.2570:

p/p can’t decide of its a condition weapon or a power weapon. Staff won’t be able to decide if its a melee weapon or a ranged weapon. You see the comparison? X can’t decide if its a Y weapon or Z weapon.

I 100% agree with you on the dual pistols part, but how do you know about the staff? Despite evidence supporting staff, we don’t even truly know if it’s the thieves elite weapon, let alone the skills that are going to come along with it.

Side note, I’d prefer the staff to be a melee weapon, as a magic-wielding, ranged “shadow assassin” theme would fit better for a focus or scepter in my opinion.

people data mined a picture of “staff theif” (you know…like how they datamined a ele with sword. look how true that turned out)
and now they assume that they getting a melee staff like revanent(you know. the thing people hated for its horrible dmg and cried about)

thief getting ranged staff…doesnt really make sense. as we have so many ranged staffs, and even ranger staff is ranged.

theif melee staff, is like wise a bad move. cause look at revanant’s reaction to it. now thief players are assuming a staff will be “good AoE” when in all likely hood its going to (if its real) be pathetic dmg that is a gimmick, and nothing more.

Rifle has the potential to a new playstyle. with dmg potential while avoiding making any of theif’s current weapons irrelevant (they will all have their roles wile rifle is stationary long range)

but staff would either be horrible underperforming and weak.

or

would replace sword as the theif AoE melee weapon.

or

would replace shortbow as the ranged AoE weapon.

in the end, it doesn’t fit.

People commented on revenant staff based on its numbers not its playstyle or its skills, numbers ahve since been adjusted.

As for the datamining, yes , it is not official till it’s announced. But your comparison can be improved a bit. See the thief staff (both picture and weapon) were datamined at the same time as the Ele warhorn (and the picture used on the spec line). The ele warhorn came true, so…

But yeah, ofcourse we will not know till its officially announced.

Whether it fits depends on the actual weapon skills, of which we know nothing. Yes thief already has dagger and sword mainhand. Warrior has sword/gs/hammer/axe/etc mainhand, yet they all function differently, until we see the weapon and its skills its hard to judge whether it brings something new to the class. There’s more to playstyles then melee or ranged.

I mean dont get me wrong rifle would be a cool weapon, but atm there is more pointing towards staff (recent datamining) than to rifle.

Either way, i’d be happy with either. Can’t wait to hear what the spec of thief will be.

if we talk about datamining

i’ll point to beta test datamining of vanilla GW2

when Thief concept art still had rifle in it
and thief datamining had rifle skills

but before release, it got delayed, and then launch came, and it got forgotten(or was it? Anet was it forgotten, delayed, or postponed?)

so rifle has had dibs far longer, going so far to have concept art with game’s launch.

I don’t think it works that way

But as i said, no datamining is official, it could be staff, rifle, or god knows what else. The reason people feel staff is more likely is because there is more proof towards it. Whether that comes true remains to be seen. No way to know other than to be patient. Would be silly to already be so sure what it will be before hearing anything about it.

Tho i would certainly not mind for that concept to be introduced, as long as it comes with that amazing armor she’s wearing.

stof.9341:

And rifle will replace P/P and Shortbow ranged weapon role …

^ This. I don’t understand why people are saying melee staff would be redundant and then say that rifle would be completely new (other than having more range, which would be really its only unique feature I think). I won’t count shortbow since its more utility. Dual pistols (which can still get the range boost from Ankle Shots) would be good, but they’re in a weird place right now, and I’d be disappointed if the rifle became the replacement for P/P, my favorite weapon set (even though Anet killed my Ricochet build ):)

I’m not opposed to a rifle spec, but I don’t want dual pistols to become obsolete because of it. I’d want a rifle spec to bring dual pistols back into the realm of viability, and heck, maybe even really effective!

It seems most of the pro-rifle crowd have more or less given up on P/P, and that sucks when a weapon set reaches that point. I hope Anet doesn’t give up on it though. I still use it on my thief main, even though it’s not quite the same.

Seabreeze.8437:

It seems most of the pro-rifle crowd have more or less given up on P/P, and that sucks when a weapon set reaches that point. I hope Anet doesn’t give up on it though. I still use it on my thief main, even though it’s not quite the same.

i tried not to give up on pistol/pistol

but after 2 years of trying to get it to work, and seeing it only get WORSE (it was bad BEFORE it lost the 1050 range and rickrockets)

i’ve given up because its clear anet is not going to fix it. at best it will return to the level it was before it lost its trait for range.

can’t even tell you how many times i get KICKED from fractals or dungeons for using pistol/pistol.

when you get kicked that much, and Anet hasn’t so much as looked in your direction in OVER 2 YEARS (possibly since launch, i wouldnt know there as i was playing ranger, warrior, and engi back then) you begin to resent the weapon and wish it was never put in game to start with

and we still LACK a rifle for medium armor!
engi doesnt count as its a kitten shotgun. your character doesn’t AIM. they just hipfire.

Ranger or Thief need a rifle to give us a rifle in game for medium armor. but ranger is confirmed in trailer to have staff (and druids dont use rifles. or tech at all. being at one with nature)

so that leaves theif as the last hope.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Riel_Darkwater
Riel constantly mocks us in that medium armor with a sniper that she aims. she doesn’t hipfire!

she’s a relic from pre-beta

arenta.2953:

Seabreeze.8437:

It seems most of the pro-rifle crowd have more or less given up on P/P, and that sucks when a weapon set reaches that point. I hope Anet doesn’t give up on it though. I still use it on my thief main, even though it’s not quite the same.

i tried not to give up on pistol/pistol

but after 2 years of trying to get it to work, and seeing it only get WORSE (it was bad BEFORE it lost the 1050 range and rickrockets)

i’ve given up because its clear anet is not going to fix it. at best it will return to the level it was before it lost its trait for range.

can’t even tell you how many times i get KICKED from fractals or dungeons for using pistol/pistol.

when you get kicked that much, and Anet hasn’t so much as looked in your direction in OVER 2 YEARS (possibly since launch, i wouldnt know there as i was playing ranger, warrior, and engi back then) you begin to resent the weapon and wish it was never put in game to start with

and we still LACK a rifle for medium armor!
engi doesnt count as its a kitten shotgun. your character doesn’t AIM. they just hipfire.

Even though our opinions differ on the melee staff vs rifle debate, I totally feel your pain. Pistols can still get their range boost from Ankle Shots, but that trait is pretty mediocre in itself. This is why I would hope that a rifle spec would do more than just “give thieves a rifle” so to speak. But I dunno, this sucks. I loved my dual pistol Ricochet DPS and sustain build. It wasn’t meta by any stretch of the imagination, but man it was fun in PvE with all the mobs you have to deal with.

Totally off-topic, but your point about engineers using rifles as a shotgun makes me wish there were more shotgun skins for rifles.

Anyways, I still want melee staff first, but I want Anet to finally take a good look at the state of pistols and explore ways to improve them alongside an eventual rifle elite spec release.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Ricochet-gone/page/8#post5337839

^ Also off-topic, but on my first post on this page I explain pretty much what we already know about why P/P is so lackluster, but I’m also looking for ways to improve said weapon set, because I’m not going to give up on dual pistols! Don’t give up either, arenta!

Seabreeze.8437:

arenta.2953:

Seabreeze.8437:

It seems most of the pro-rifle crowd have more or less given up on P/P, and that sucks when a weapon set reaches that point. I hope Anet doesn’t give up on it though. I still use it on my thief main, even though it’s not quite the same.

i tried not to give up on pistol/pistol

but after 2 years of trying to get it to work, and seeing it only get WORSE (it was bad BEFORE it lost the 1050 range and rickrockets)

i’ve given up because its clear anet is not going to fix it. at best it will return to the level it was before it lost its trait for range.

can’t even tell you how many times i get KICKED from fractals or dungeons for using pistol/pistol.

when you get kicked that much, and Anet hasn’t so much as looked in your direction in OVER 2 YEARS (possibly since launch, i wouldnt know there as i was playing ranger, warrior, and engi back then) you begin to resent the weapon and wish it was never put in game to start with

and we still LACK a rifle for medium armor!
engi doesnt count as its a kitten shotgun. your character doesn’t AIM. they just hipfire.

Even though our opinions differ on the melee staff vs rifle debate, I totally feel your pain. Pistols can still get their range boost from Ankle Shots, but that trait is pretty mediocre in itself. This is why I would hope that a rifle spec would do more than just “give thieves a rifle” so to speak. But I dunno, this sucks. I loved my dual pistol Ricochet DPS and sustain build. It wasn’t meta by any stretch of the imagination, but man it was fun in PvE with all the mobs you have to deal with.

Totally off-topic, but your point about engineers using rifles as a shotgun makes me wish there were more shotgun skins for rifles.

Anyways, I still want melee staff first, but I want Anet to finally take a good look at the state of pistols and explore ways to improve them alongside an eventual rifle elite spec release.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Ricochet-gone/page/8#post5337839

^ Also off-topic, but on my first post on this page I explain pretty much what we already know about why P/P is so lackluster, but I’m also looking for ways to improve said weapon set, because I’m not going to give up on dual pistols! Don’t give up either, arenta!

if Anet fixes Pistol Pistol to be useful (i’d say again…but lets face it its never been useful)

then i’d happily accept a staff(mediocre or not)

but considering Anet has never given a rats kitten about pistol/pistol. i’m fighting for rifle until they do one or the other!
(pistol or rifle! give me ONE USABLE)

stof.9341:

And rifle will replace P/P and Shortbow ranged weapon role …

That’s impossible p/p is hybrid and SB is AoE/mobility unless they literally copy and paste.

It’s also ridiculous if thief is getting staff (which they most likely are in my opinion) because now EVERYONE gets a staff. That’s literally 7/9 classes that can use a staff, while only 2/9 classes can use a Rifle?!

This in addition to the fact that Thief had Rifle in the Beta, it also makes more lore sense to give a Thief a Rifle over a staff – since a Staff is a non lethal weapon.

Also Ricochet was completely removed from thief trait line, it would make even more sense to re-introduce it with a new Rifle elite spec trait line.

ALL I can say is invest in staffs apparently this is Staff Wars 2

And again, I hope whichever weapon they have chosen for thief, they chose because it’d be a good weapon for the thief, and not based on how many other classes have that weapon.

6 out of 8 classes currently have Spear for underwater, does that mean Revenant should have Speargun & Trident?

Shiki.7148:

Cyvien.8049:

Zevix.1479:

Yeah, but the Rev specialization has been known for a while to be receiving a shield, just like the Mesmer. That kind of throws a stick in your hopes.

Is Rev speculated to have the shield or unofficially announced/leaked by Anet staffs?

Speculated, but we know it is Glint, and there is a Glint-wing-themed shield in the code. Since we have a tempest-warhorn, reaper Greatsword, druid staff, Chronomancer shield and Dragonhunter bow…aswell as a Staff that looks made for thieves (bo staff) that also is present in one of the datamined specialization backgrounds for thief… Saying thief cannot get Staff because of the current pattern is grasping at the last possible straw.

We also have clear evidence that datamined stuff aren’t final, as shown by the datamined skills for sword that was then replaced by warhorn on Tempest.
Datamined stuff isn’t final and basing yourself strongly on what’s been datamined is setting yourself up for disappointment (aka every elementalist main who was psyched for sword main hand).
I’m not really going to speculate much, it can be going either way, but i’m going to say this, Arena net is kind of compulsive about patterns, and its not the first time they killed something just so it fits the pattern even if it really doesn’t make sense (as in when they maimed Consuime Conditions to make it “feel” like a Corruption skill).

ReaverKane.7598:

We also have clear evidence that datamined stuff aren’t final, as shown by the datamined skills for sword that was then replaced by warhorn on Tempest.
Datamined stuff isn’t final and basing yourself strongly on what’s been datamined is setting yourself up for disappointment (aka every elementalist main who was psyched for sword main hand).
I’m not really going to speculate much, it can be going either way, but i’m going to say this, Arena net is kind of compulsive about patterns, and its not the first time they killed something just so it fits the pattern even if it really doesn’t make sense (as in when they maimed Consuime Conditions to make it “feel” like a Corruption skill).

True, but still there are different levels of certainty with datamined stuff. A few sword skills that look like copies of dagger skills is very cheap. Having done artworks for a thief staff traitline and having modeled the ingame weapons already (staff and the revenant shield) is another level. Those are much more expensive for ANet and they had basically no reason to start art producing those unless they were rather confident it’ll be the elite spec weapon.

You know Concept art is the first thing they do, so having concept art is really not indication of anything, and the Shield could be made for another class, or not even related to any elite spec.

ReaverKane.7598:

You know Concept art is the first thing they do, so having concept art is really not indication of anything, and the Shield could be made for another class, or not even related to any elite spec.

We all know it’s not 100% certain until Anet announces it, but looking at all that’s been provided makes me more confident in staff than rifle.

We have an actual in-game model of a staff that perfectly matches the trait background art for thief (which looks more like final art than concept to me). Also, the shield looks like it was modeled after a dragon’s wing, assumed to be Glint. Given that Glint is almost a certainty for the revenant’s elite spec, we can also be fairly certain that they will be getting said shield as well.

Again, not 100%, but pretty compelling nonetheless.