Guild Wars 2

IndigoSundown.5419:

Chrono.6928:

Lots of people just enjoyed doing dungeons to make gold. Myself included. “Selling mats” to make gold doesn’t really cut it for me, because I tend to be one of those players who stockpile mats in my bank for legendaries and other rare items, so now it feels like I’m constantly broke. Do I have liquid assets sure. But that’s not how I want to make a profit b/c chances are I will have to rebuy them later that way.

“I miss doing dungeons for gold” is, I think, a reasonable point. However, the OP’s complaint involves considerably more than that. “It’s no longer worth my time to farm dungeons” does not equal, “There is no way to make gold except to spend RL money.”

As to mats… Ask yourself whether the mats you are storing are currently valued high, and whether they’re likely to continue to go up over time or will they come down as more players complete their goals? If so, as has been the case many times, selling some now and buying later might be to your advantage. The further advantage is that you can always re-farm them later if you need to.

Long term rewards in MMO’s are designed to be marathons, not sprints, and certainly not 1K jogs. If you “have” to finish the marathon in the lead group, then there’s going to be a lot more stress and concern than if you just want to finish at your own pace.

Hey sir, do you think people will ever complete the goal when new COOL legendary Greatsword, Sword, Longbow, Hammer, etc is going to come every 3 months?

Price may lower “slightly” after some time, but would spike up yet again whenever new shiny armors/weapons are out. They would all be competing the SAME materials just so you know.

The new PVP legendary back asking for Gift of Fortune yet again pretty much forshadowing the direction Anet is taking.
New legendaries would still consume almost the same amount of T6, Ecto, Dust. New precursors will still consume those 75~100 Deldrimor/Spiritwood.

So how on earth can you say that the price will lower down eventually?

Aomine.5012:

Hey sir, do you think people will ever complete the goal when new COOL legendary Greatsword, Sword, Longbow, Hammer, etc is going to come every 3 months?

So be smart about it. Spiritwood almost doubled in price when the Nevermore bug was fixed, going from 9 gold to just under 17 gold. Since then it’s dropped back down to around 13-14.

Nevermore is an ‘all-wood’ Legendary. We haven’t yet had an ‘all-metal’ Legendary, as Sword and Greatsword will be. As a result, Deldrimor hasn’t yet had the same price spike, it’s remaining at the 9 gold that Spiritwood was at before.

So why aren’t you stockpiling Deldrimor?

I sold my entire stockpile of Spiritwood during the Nevermore spike at 16.9 gold each. If I were to buy it back today, I’d still have a profit. You can bet I’m stockpiling my Deldrimor and waiting for the same thing to happen with one of those new Legendary weapons. Make your profit on the back of those who must have their shinies immediately, then bide your time afterwards while prices stabilize and enjoy your profits.

Their intent was that by lowering liquid gold income, the value of loot across the game would increase.

This is exactly what happenned. it’s extremely difficult to simply waste your time in the game now. if you’re acquiring loot or gathering pretty much anything, that stuff can almost always translate directly in to a nice sum of gold by trading it to another player.

Contrast this with before the patch, where so much of the the economy (crafting materials) was utterly useless.

if you’re attempting to gain wealth by hoarding your acquisitions in stead of selling what you don’t need to buy what you do, you’re playing exactly the way that anet wanted to discourage. That “hoard everything and spend only liquid gold income” was exactly the economic model they intended to change.

Gold is a token designed to trickly in to your pockets enough to create a supply, but its purpose is to change hands for the things players actually need, materials and gear. The problem with the old system was that yuou could easily make enough money to buy pretty much anything without actually selling anything, which created undersupply of a lot of items and oversupply of a lot more.

Now that supply/demand is more in balance across the game, the economy is healthier as a result. You aren’t forced to run just a handful of pieces of content to make decent money. In stead you’re encouraged to prioritize your goals and offload loot and mats that don’t contribute to those goals in exchange for loot and mats that do.

PopeUrban.2578:

Their intent was that by lowering liquid gold income, the value of loot across the game would increase.

This is exactly what happenned. it’s extremely difficult to simply waste your time in the game now. if you’re acquiring loot or gathering pretty much anything, that stuff can almost always translate directly in to a nice sum of gold by trading it to another player.

Contrast this with before the patch, where so much of the the economy (crafting materials) was utterly useless.

if you’re attempting to gain wealth by hoarding your acquisitions in stead of selling what you don’t need to buy what you do, you’re playing exactly the way that anet wanted to discourage. That “hoard everything and spend only liquid gold income” was exactly the economic model they intended to change.

Gold is a token designed to trickly in to your pockets enough to create a supply, but its purpose is to change hands for the things players actually need, materials and gear. The problem with the old system was that yuou could easily make enough money to buy pretty much anything without actually selling anything, which created undersupply of a lot of items and oversupply of a lot more.

Now that supply/demand is more in balance across the game, the economy is healthier as a result. You aren’t forced to run just a handful of pieces of content to make decent money. In stead you’re encouraged to prioritize your goals and offload loot and mats that don’t contribute to those goals in exchange for loot and mats that do.

How’s it wealthier when ONLY raw materials are raising in price, but the source of gold and the value of EVERYTHING ELSE does not change in price/drop in price?

So we’re still getting the same crappy rares/greens that pretty much worth the same, or even less than before, while the raw materials continue to rise in price because only raw materials have value, while exotic/other 95% of loots are as worthless as usual.

Making 5% of raw materials extremely valuable and keep everything else constant is a healthy economy?

All the “cool skins” are bound to those materials, so even if you sell them, you’re not getting any closer to those cool skins. Chances are the high value materials are actually the only materials you actually need. So by dumping them, you’d have to rebuy them eventually.

Aomine.5012:

IndigoSundown.5419:

- snip -

Hey sir, do you think people will ever complete the goal when new COOL legendary Greatsword, Sword, Longbow, Hammer, etc is going to come every 3 months?

Yes, I do. People always adapt and overcome. That’s what we do. Well, at least those who don’t waste their time complaining. Oh, and as Xiahou Mao pointed out, Spiritwood has already dropped back from its high.

Even if it didn’t, all that would be required to get this stuff done is to collect the raw mats yourself and then craft your own. That’s unacceptable? You’d have to wait too long? As I suspected, these complaints are about impatience and a desire for rapid gratification.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Aomine.5012:

IndigoSundown.5419:

- snip -

Hey sir, do you think people will ever complete the goal when new COOL legendary Greatsword, Sword, Longbow, Hammer, etc is going to come every 3 months?

Yes, I do. People always adapt and overcome. That’s what we do. Well, at least those who don’t waste their time complaining. Oh, and as Xiahou Mao pointed out, Spiritwood has already dropped back from its high.

Even if it didn’t, all that would be required to get this stuff done is to collect the raw mats yourself and then craft your own. That’s unacceptable? You’d have to wait too long? As I suspected, these complaints are about impatience and a desire for rapid gratification.

Way to divert the topic.

We are talking about economy as a whole and you’re moving the topic to people being greedy and stuff. Realistically everyone is greedy, and this greed is the incentive to push our economy moving forward. If no-one has this greed and incentive, our economy will fall apart and die. There’d be no trade because there’s no point to do so if there’s no incentive and opportunity cost.

As for patience or impatience, yeah, might as well save money and buy the inflated product than wasting 100 hrs doing robotic logging woods on low tier trash maps that has no fun factor in it whatsoever. You’re sacrificing 100+ of your supposedly play-time into logging endless woods. This is opportunity cost, and I wish you’re happy about doing such monotonic task. This is where the design of a game fail.

I find harvesting relaxing. If I log in after work and want to run around a low level map punching skelks in the snout and chop wood that people ABSOLUTELY NEED FOR THE HIGHEST TIER OF GEAR, guess what? You’re gonna pay me through the nose for the work you aren’t willing to do yourself.

Its not an accident linen is as expensive as it is.

Nike.2631:

I find harvesting relaxing. If I log in after work and want to run around a low level map punching skelks in the snout and chop wood that people ABSOLUTELY NEED FOR THE HIGHEST TIER OF GEAR, guess what? You’re gonna pay me through the nose for the work you aren’t willing to do yourself.

Its not an accident linen is as expensive as it is.

It’s expensive as hell because 95% of people think this is un-fun.

Yes, this is not coincident. Majority of people are thinking logging 20000 woods in threatless / low level areas doing mindless logging unfun. This is why the price becomes so high, because people rather pay more than doing the most boring thing on earth in a game, which supposedly should give you fun factor.

That’s why I said it’s a design failure, and whoever think is a good idea really should go play some real games out there. I know you Anet devs are too busy on development, and can’t just ditch your work and actually play some fun games that reward you for doing fun contents, that’s why you think this design works.

Just don’t spend any money.

You don’t need much to play this game. Just a couple of ascended gear and you should be good.

I have multiple accounts. I have as much fun playing on an account which have nothing compare to another account which have everything.

You don’t need much to have fun.

Aomine.5012:

Way to divert the topic.

We are talking about economy as a whole and you’re moving the topic to people being greedy and stuff. Realistically everyone is greedy, and this greed is the incentive to push our economy moving forward. If no-one has this greed and incentive, our economy will fall apart and die. There’d be no trade because there’s no point to do so if there’s no incentive and opportunity cost.

As for patience or impatience, yeah, might as well save money and buy the inflated product than wasting 100 hrs doing robotic logging woods on low tier trash maps that has no fun factor in it whatsoever. You’re sacrificing 100+ of your supposedly play-time into logging endless woods. This is opportunity cost, and I wish you’re happy about doing such monotonic task. This is where the design of a game fail.

Divert the topic? The topic started on increased cost of materials used to create specific items and the perceived inability of the OP to gather enough gold to get what he wants in a time frame acceptable to him. How is that not impatience? In fact, he said, “… if you want to survive in this economy (lol) you need to buy gems with real money.” This is blatant hyperbole, and as the zinger in his topic, deserves to be called out for what it is.

Failure to agree with a premise != “divert topic.”

Nike.2631:

I find harvesting relaxing. If I log in after work and want to run around a low level map punching skelks in the snout and chop wood that people ABSOLUTELY NEED FOR THE HIGHEST TIER OF GEAR, guess what? You’re gonna pay me through the nose for the work you aren’t willing to do yourself.

Its not an accident linen is as expensive as it is.

its fine from an economy and in game job point of view, but it sucks from a game design point of view, in that the unfun, and least adventure like things are the most effecient ways to get ahead.

In other games i played, yeah they had good consistent easy farms based on the market and knowledge and base materials, but the best things were obtained faster via adventure. The stuff you got from these adventures would pay equal to a lot of time farming.

in gw2, gathering basic mats pays extremely well, killing level appropriate mobs pays less, and big adventures pay the worst.

its not that easy to solve, but the balance is heavily on gathering right now.
Ideally you would incentivize the best designed content

Aomine.5012:

It’s expensive as hell because 95% of people think this is un-fun.

And behold, a system where I’m rewarded (heavily sometimes) for not sharing tastes with the 95%.

That’s why I said it’s a design failure, and whoever think is a good idea really should go play some real games out there.

…Or maybe you should. It might give you some perspective on how the entire population of all gamerdom DOESN’T share your tastes.

You are the center of your universe, not mine. And if you want that ascended weapon, you’ll buy my wood for a premium or do it yourself. Take your pick.

Nike.2631:

Aomine.5012:

It’s expensive as hell because 95% of people think this is un-fun.

And behold, a system where I’m rewarded (heavily sometimes) for not sharing tastes with the 95%.

That’s why I said it’s a design failure, and whoever think is a good idea really should go play some real games out there.

…Or maybe you should. It might give you some perspective on how the entire population of all gamerdom DOESN’T share your tastes.

You are the center of your universe, not mine. And if you want that ascended weapon, you’ll buy my wood for a premium or do it yourself. Take your pick.

The price goes up so high for a reason: There’s NOT ENOUGH supply for the materials.
Why is there not enough supplies? Because MAJORITY of players DO NOT want to do this. If most people enjoy logging in boring low-level zones like you do, there would be enough supplies to support the market, and the price will go back to the original level.

This is common sense.

Logically I have a point, and this point is a proof.
You have none. You’re the ego-centric one, providing nothing more than your personal experience of enjoyment.

Seriously, if you really enjoy something like logging in boring maps all days, you really REALLY need to go find a good game for a change.

Aomine.5012:

Logically I have a point, and this point is a proof.

Logically you are destined for disappointment in the matter, and refusing to understand why won’t change that or how the game works.

All things considered, I’m betting you’ll be changing games before I do.

Nike.2631:

Aomine.5012:

Logically I have a point, and this point is a proof.

Logically you are destined for disappointment in the matter, and refusing to understand why won’t change that or how the game works.

All things considered, I’m betting you’ll be changing games before I do.

And you still make no valid argument to back your point up whatsoever, other than mocking me directly.

I’ve got an idea why you might be so confused. You appear to be saying “Hey, I’m the majority playstyle and so I should be the best rewarded” when in fact everything about this game is designed to reward non-standard play over being the herd. A simple manifestation of this is monsters gain an XP bonus for how long they ’ve been on map without being killed, rewarding people sometime 8 to 10 times as much XP for playing off the beaten path. The TP in particular is designed to punch sheep-like buying and selling square in the face.

If you do what ‘everyone’ is doing you’d better like it for the gameplay.

Aomine.5012:

And you still make no valid argument to back your point up whatsoever, other than mocking me directly.

I’m mocking you because you literally said “I’m unhappy with the game and you aren’t so you should go find another game.”

And the attempt at splattering academic verbiage over pure absurdity didn’t hide how ridiculous you were being in the slightest.

It’s fairly easy to get enough wood to craft your daily spirit wood in like 15-20 mins. People just tend to be lazy/impatient that’s why prices are high.

Taking a bit of time out of your day to gather isn’t THAT bad even if logging is arguably super boring.

fishball.7204:

It’s fairly easy to get enough wood to craft your daily spirit wood in like 15-20 mins. People just tend to be lazy/impatient that’s why prices are high.

Taking a bit of time out of your day to gather isn’t THAT bad even if logging is arguably super boring.

Great that you assume majority of players are lazy.
Such an awesome generalization that would get a professional award!

Or maybe they just look at the opportunity cost and figure out that using that 100+ hours to do actual fun stuffs or grind money by doing real contents is more enjoyable, more worthwhile of their time than logging in low level boring zones for 100+ hours?

For some people like you guys, your opportunity cost of logging woods yourself exceed playing the game, that’s why you do it. But sadly the market shows that you’re the minority here since the price of mats doubled or tripled. (Some qaudripled)

All I’m saying is, before Pre crafting and what not you had to force yourself to do a few dungeons a day to save up the gold to make it over a period of time.

It is no different now but instead of 30 mins of dungeons you go chop 30 mins of wood.

Sure it’s not as fun but in terms of time spent it’s not “100+ hours” unless you count the entire legendary.

Chopping wood IS playing the game, much like dungeons. Most of us just find wood chopping boring as hell but bearable if done on a short time daily basis.

Anet should do the following things to improve in my opinion the economy and to help out people in the game to get certain things easier with lesser money/grind involved as the game has absolutely way too muchitems, where you as a player will always get confronted with the stupid option of either:

• Buy it from TP from a greey player that wants to have for the item an ridiculous amount of gold to become literally instant rich by profitating from your laziness (Fork over like 500-2000 Gold … Seriously??? and that in 90% of all cases just for a Skin or an item that is part of a Collection and has otherwise no use for anyone)

or

• Grind your butt off for months farming something super rare until your fingers bleed and you have enough of the materials to either craft the wanted thing, or the again required Gold to buy the needed Materials from TP, or even worser, grind an half eternity some Events that happen only like every 45+ Minutes or so to 3 hours for an absurd tiny chance of receiving your wanted item as a RNG based loot drop, where in the whole freaking game only 1 single place exists, where that item can get dropped, which is another reason, which encourages greedy super lucky players to sell such thigns for ridiculous high gold amounts to become instant rich.

Don’t missunderstand me.. theres absolutely NOTHING wrong with it that the game has some very valuable items from which players can make profit from other players wanting to buy them.. but alot of these items in my opinion are made just way too valuable by Anet and should become easier to obtain, so that the amount of constant offer can rise a bit so that these absurd high prices fall down a bit too.

Examples:

The two Dwayna Bow Weapons for the Acolyte of Dwayna Achievement.
These two Bows alone cost so much gold, like 1-2 Precursors!!!
Why? Because the crafting recipe for making them is way too expensive due to the weapon requiring a Gift of Light which again requires of you a Gift of Ascalon, 250 Orichalcum Ingots, 100 Charged Lodestones and 250 Cured Hardened Leather Squares.

There are 8 other weapons (one of them only a real legendary weapon) which require also a Gift of Light just to craft them, which are all not Precursors, which are the reason, why Charged Lodestones are su super expensive compared to all others and why these weapons cost as much as like precursors, because this Gift alone is the reason whichdrives their prices so massively up for no reason.

If ANet would change the costs of these 6 Weapons that aren’t legendary precursors and replace the Gift of Light with something else, then would become these weapons more affordable, especialyl the 5 foefire weapons that you need for also an achievement, which together cost as much as a legendary weapon complete!!! what is ridiculous.

This or anet should simple reduce the costs for making Gifts of Light by reducing the required amount of CHarged Lodestoens from 100 to 50, that would instantly reduce the costs of all those weapons by a hefty approx 100-110 Gold already alone and whiek still being very valuable items, they would become at least alot more affordable and lesser of a grind.
—-

Next example:
Pendant of Orr – by now from an achievement the very last item, that is super expensive thanks to too greedy players that want to have to this item around 480-520 gold, which is absolutely absurd. This item simply drops way too rarely which is the reason why that item become so super expensive in the TP.
There should also exist a craftign recipe for it, which when you crafft it should reduce the total costs to like maximum 100 Gold, so that TP sellers will automaticalyl have to adapt their prices if they want to keep selling their pendants for profit.
Theres only 2 spots in the whole game where this item can drop.. arah dungeon and from a single event boss as loot super rarely, which spawns only like every hour or so or pretty much never in empty orr maps. This item should have chances to drop as loot practically from EVERY BOSS enemy in orr. In all boss chests from the temples for example with a significantly greater chance so that the offer can rise a bit quicker here
—-

Im pretty sure, there are alot of other items that are by its drop chance either to rare or simply too cost expensive due to absurd craftign recipes requiring of certain items way too much units, which could be reduced to normalize the costs of these items, so that these items become simply more afforsable for people without having to grind for suhc thigns always months for gold or materials for something, that isn#t even a legendary, or is of use only for a collection/achievement worth a few points and nothign else or gives in return ion one case a personal instance chest, that gives absolutely not back anythign thats worth it to pay for a colelction item over 500 gold…
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Another thing that needs to happen finally is to remove the time gate from ascended crafting material. This nonsesne got only introduced tzo guarasntee, that ascended items could get introduced with a stabile price.
But now where anet changed alot of values for just the normal materials, those for ascended materials only skyrocketed more into absurd expensive costs where removing the silyl tiem gate would lead again into a stabilization of the prices and thus making ascended equiment not such a super cost expensive experience, that makes the whole game absolutely alt unfriendly sicne implementation of ascended equipment, where making a set each time costs practically as much of gold as like buying 1-2 precursors from TP!! Thats absolutely ABSURD
The other ways of obtaining ascende equipment so far are totally laughable and not worth it really for the massive effort you have to put into the game just to get somethign and if you ever get something, then its 100% rng based and you can’t event decide the stats that you want, gettin most of the time forced to change the attributes to what you want, having again unneccessary costs for you just to get actually a reward that you wanted.
In case for example of tequatl weapons its a total obnoxious grind, because theres no Boss Token System that lets you continously work on what you want. instead you have to pray every 3 hour on RNGEESUS and that get waht you want, what ends up 99% of all times with a stupid spoon or a worthless rune.

After playing GW2 now for 3 years, you get the experience out of it, as if this game has been willingly designed in many spots like a typical absurf “asia grinder” where everything takes you super unneccessary long to obtain due to way too much RNG being involved with like 0,00001% drop chances, or super high grinding costs due to too rare items being required in too high unit amounts liek in the case of gift of light.
Or where you get artificially slow downed by nonsense like time gates on crafting items which should all get removed after some time, after new items have been introduced to ensure that they had enough time to integrate themself into the economy of the game in a stabile way.

However, Anet is working on changes of the fractal and WvW reward system as it looks, hopefully will these changes help out significantly, by making certain too rare/valuable items in this game more affordable.

fishball.7204:

It’s fairly easy to get enough wood to craft your daily spirit wood in like 15-20 mins. People just tend to be lazy/impatient that’s why prices are high.

Taking a bit of time out of your day to gather isn’t THAT bad even if logging is arguably super boring.

Well, to be honest that 15-20min running around a map can in my case be better spent. I get to login mabe an hour a day, little more on the weekends.
In those 60minutes I have choose something to do, so the question is simple:
1. Do I run around a low level map for some random wooden logs, doing boring events?
2. Or do I pick up some challangening content to have hun with (fractals for example), or join a (part of) an meta chain in a HoT map?

See, its not lazyness on my part. Its a simple time restraint of moulding GW2 into my RL schedule of work, spouse, friends, other entertainment and sleep.

Why not just admit the economy went all-stop with Heart of Thorns?

You can go gather iron and the more characters you have the more profitable it will be. But that will just come to the same gains as doing world bosses and you ought to do those first so when it gets later in the evening you aren’t blocked from doing world bosses for want of players online.

It really just comes down to what works for the play time you have available.

At some point Anet will realize that just because you can play the TP, and you can play the game doesn’t mean the need for fun and rewarding content should be discarded.

This is the core problem when you have an Economist directing things behind the scenes.
Sure he’s good at what he does, but is what he’s doing making the game more interesting or fun to play.

I’d wager if you polled players the current response would be, no. That is a problem. At the end of the day, the game should be fun. Being a lumberjack/ coal miner / herbalist isn’t fun for a good majority of people.

Prime Greek.1092:

Remember that ANET makes 90% of their money off the TP. Recirculating gold earned in the game into jewels by players gives them Zero Income.

They make 90% of their money off the TP? you mean, by selling gems?

I sincerely doubt it.

I spent around 80€ on this game (i don’t remember how much the original was at launch). I would have to spend 720€ on gems for your numbers to be right.

I know a lot of people got the game at discounted prices, and some even free. But still, i doubt someone still running a free account is going to spend money on gems.

unless you need stat only available in ascended, you don’t need ascended armors. If you can’t kill raids boss with exotic armor, it’s another problem.

Khyan.7039:

unless you need stat only available in ascended, you don’t need ascended armors. If you can’t kill raids boss with exotic armor, it’s another problem.

Not having access to ascended puts you at a disadvantage in WvW and Anet has already stated, raids are meant to be done in ascended gear.

You need to learn more about MMO economics. Listen to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W39TtF14i8I

They can allow neither inflation nor deflation over time. It’s a very difficult task. The video is a very good summary of economics; I highly recommend it.

Daddicus.6128:

You need to learn more about MMO economics. Listen to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W39TtF14i8I

They can allow neither inflation nor deflation over time. It’s a very difficult task. The video is a very good summary of economics; I highly recommend it.

It’s not THAT HARD to figure out how economy will go when you:

1. Make a rare thing that consume LOTS of materials only able to be crafted.

2. Ask for tremendous amount of materials people usually would not have stacked up that much even with 3 yrs of playing.

3, Make sure there’re like 30 more things that compete the same tremendous amount of materials.

4. Refuse to increase the supply of the said materials.

Doesn’t take a professional to figure out the effect to the economy..
Pretty common sense thing.

Maybe this is Anet’s evil plan all along, to drive people into transfering gems to gold with this insane inflation.

Hope this decision backfire them so they can start caring their customers for once.

Aomine.5012:

PopeUrban.2578:

Their intent was that by lowering liquid gold income, the value of loot across the game would increase.

This is exactly what happenned. it’s extremely difficult to simply waste your time in the game now. if you’re acquiring loot or gathering pretty much anything, that stuff can almost always translate directly in to a nice sum of gold by trading it to another player.

Contrast this with before the patch, where so much of the the economy (crafting materials) was utterly useless.

if you’re attempting to gain wealth by hoarding your acquisitions in stead of selling what you don’t need to buy what you do, you’re playing exactly the way that anet wanted to discourage. That “hoard everything and spend only liquid gold income” was exactly the economic model they intended to change.

Gold is a token designed to trickly in to your pockets enough to create a supply, but its purpose is to change hands for the things players actually need, materials and gear. The problem with the old system was that yuou could easily make enough money to buy pretty much anything without actually selling anything, which created undersupply of a lot of items and oversupply of a lot more.

Now that supply/demand is more in balance across the game, the economy is healthier as a result. You aren’t forced to run just a handful of pieces of content to make decent money. In stead you’re encouraged to prioritize your goals and offload loot and mats that don’t contribute to those goals in exchange for loot and mats that do.

How’s it wealthier when ONLY raw materials are raising in price, but the source of gold and the value of EVERYTHING ELSE does not change in price/drop in price?

So we’re still getting the same crappy rares/greens that pretty much worth the same, or even less than before, while the raw materials continue to rise in price because only raw materials have value, while exotic/other 95% of loots are as worthless as usual.

Making 5% of raw materials extremely valuable and keep everything else constant is a healthy economy?

All the “cool skins” are bound to those materials, so even if you sell them, you’re not getting any closer to those cool skins. Chances are the high value materials are actually the only materials you actually need. So by dumping them, you’d have to rebuy them eventually.

You’re salvaging all that worthless loot right?

That one ingot per five blues salvaged is actually worth more than both your kit and what you would have acquired by vendoring them.

Just because salvaging got nerfed doesn’t mean it’s not worth your time.

Also, if you’re really going for liquid assets, run some fractals. I rarely leave the daily rotation with less than 5g more than I started. on lucky trash days I’ve made 25g just doing dailies from book drops and ectos.

PopeUrban.2578:

Aomine.5012:

PopeUrban.2578:

Their intent was that by lowering liquid gold income, the value of loot across the game would increase.

This is exactly what happenned. it’s extremely difficult to simply waste your time in the game now. if you’re acquiring loot or gathering pretty much anything, that stuff can almost always translate directly in to a nice sum of gold by trading it to another player.

Contrast this with before the patch, where so much of the the economy (crafting materials) was utterly useless.

if you’re attempting to gain wealth by hoarding your acquisitions in stead of selling what you don’t need to buy what you do, you’re playing exactly the way that anet wanted to discourage. That “hoard everything and spend only liquid gold income” was exactly the economic model they intended to change.

Gold is a token designed to trickly in to your pockets enough to create a supply, but its purpose is to change hands for the things players actually need, materials and gear. The problem with the old system was that yuou could easily make enough money to buy pretty much anything without actually selling anything, which created undersupply of a lot of items and oversupply of a lot more.

Now that supply/demand is more in balance across the game, the economy is healthier as a result. You aren’t forced to run just a handful of pieces of content to make decent money. In stead you’re encouraged to prioritize your goals and offload loot and mats that don’t contribute to those goals in exchange for loot and mats that do.

How’s it wealthier when ONLY raw materials are raising in price, but the source of gold and the value of EVERYTHING ELSE does not change in price/drop in price?

So we’re still getting the same crappy rares/greens that pretty much worth the same, or even less than before, while the raw materials continue to rise in price because only raw materials have value, while exotic/other 95% of loots are as worthless as usual.

Making 5% of raw materials extremely valuable and keep everything else constant is a healthy economy?

All the “cool skins” are bound to those materials, so even if you sell them, you’re not getting any closer to those cool skins. Chances are the high value materials are actually the only materials you actually need. So by dumping them, you’d have to rebuy them eventually.

You’re salvaging all that worthless loot right?

That one ingot per five blues salvaged is actually worth more than both your kit and what you would have acquired by vendoring them.

Just because salvaging got nerfed doesn’t mean it’s not worth your time.

Also, if you’re really going for liquid assets, run some fractals. I rarely leave the daily rotation with less than 5g more than I started. on lucky trash days I’ve made 25g just doing dailies from book drops and ectos.

You only get t5~t6 mats when salvaging at lv80.

Those are the ones you mostly don’t need or don’t lack of.

However you still need to grind around 15000~20000 t2~t4 materials because you do not get them from salvage as lv80.

And you completely misunderstand the point either. Having enough money to buy all materials directly is not the argument I’m trying to make right now. I do not need to know how to make money since I have enough for the raw materials already. My point is pushing raw materials to the degree of doubled~quadriple of the price is not healthy to the game.

It’s not healthy to the precursor maker, nor is it healthy to the rest of the community.
You can say newcomers can earn money off it, but how about when they try to train crafting to lv500 so they can start crafting their own stuffs? Now they have to rebuy all the raw materials back themselves by paying quadruple amount of price too!
They have to pay quadruple or more to train the same thing, or they have to accept the outrageous price of the full product crafted by someone else for ascended gears.

Aomine.5012:

It’s not THAT HARD to figure out how economy will go when you:

1. Make a rare thing that consume LOTS of materials only able to be crafted.

2. Ask for tremendous amount of materials people usually would not have stacked up that much even with 3 yrs of playing.

3, Make sure there’re like 30 more things that compete the same tremendous amount of materials.

4. Refuse to increase the supply of the said materials.

Doesn’t take a professional to figure out the effect to the economy..
Pretty common sense thing.

Maybe this is Anet’s evil plan all along, to drive people into transfering gems to gold with this insane inflation.

Hope this decision backfire them so they can start caring their customers for once.

You should listen to the video. They’re doing exactly what they need to do: take money out of the economy to avoid inflation.

Daddicus.6128:

Aomine.5012:

It’s not THAT HARD to figure out how economy will go when you:

1. Make a rare thing that consume LOTS of materials only able to be crafted.

2. Ask for tremendous amount of materials people usually would not have stacked up that much even with 3 yrs of playing.

3, Make sure there’re like 30 more things that compete the same tremendous amount of materials.

4. Refuse to increase the supply of the said materials.

Doesn’t take a professional to figure out the effect to the economy..
Pretty common sense thing.

Maybe this is Anet’s evil plan all along, to drive people into transfering gems to gold with this insane inflation.

Hope this decision backfire them so they can start caring their customers for once.

You should listen to the video. They’re doing exactly what they need to do: take money out of the economy to avoid inflation.

LOL. The result is we have a massive inflation of materials from 2 to 10 times in less than a month.

The same amount of money now only buy us 1/2 or 1/10 of the original goods we used to be able to purchase, our GDP and living standard is reduced by 50~90%, meaning we need to work 2~10 times as hard to achieve the living standard we used to have. (Because yknow, they didn’t adjust the reward of in-game gold to the current price level. They only increases the demand and price level. In fact, they even reduce the in-game reward to around 40~50% so people need to work 4~20 times harder than it used to be)

Video claiming something doesn’t mean it does the thing it meant to be.
This is just Anet excuse to push people into using gems to convert to gold for the inflated products, a method to grab on quick cash for the company.
Pure greediness and nothing else.

Why do YOU feel pushed into buying gems for gold?, I don’t, I buy what I want, skins can wait, I have long term goals, perfect no?

So, from 1 week of playing PvP:

I have made 110g in mats from reward tracks.
More tokens I could ever bother using for dungeon skins that i’d ever get slogging through the actual dungeons
got roughly 70 tomes of knowledge, which is faster than i could ever bother to grind out in PvE… would you look at that.. i can get a brand new max character!
obtained more exotics than i’d ever seen in a month of PvE

To say that the economy is messed up is an understatement. When you can’t forage for and supply for yourself playing the very game content that requires gold to progress in without having to resort to a grind/farm/route or repetitive gameplay, it speaks volumes about the overall design for the game and what its really feeding.

Arenanet wants your money. That’s what matters to them. The people who originally worked on this game for the desire to make it special are gone, and the only purpose it serves now is to provide long-term grind goals for the classic MMORPG player— legendary items, fractal rewards grind, now a PvP backpiece for PvE casuals to partake in to re-inject playerbase into the PvP scheme, because that too is dying out.

The reason why they don’t reply to these forum posts is because its probably more or less true, and there is nothing they can say that can prove otherwise.

There are very little if not no reward for playing PvE anymore, so eventually everything boils down to players wanting progress→buying gems→convert to gold

dungeons have no tangible reward
fractals reward empty boxes with green gear that ends up being salvaged/vendored for 50c… or efforts go towards making infusions and pieces of gear that cost astronomical amounts of a certain resource
legendaries are Anet’s version of WoW/Blizzard introducing gear grinds/perma raid hamster wheel.
Metas give xp… and paltry trash. They also give more tokens used for either feeding more of your legendary grinds, collections, or skins.

I’m logging in for stretches of pvp matches, gonna do some mindless WvW zerging with friends for the laughs, etc. Raids aren’t challenging, they just require competent people with gear. In fact, Vale Guardian imo has more challenging mechanics than Gorseval, and Gorseval has more challenging mechanics than Sabetha.

world bosses are your daily dose of lottery tickets. Participate in a 10 min zerg, take your ration box, crack open for a chance to win a pink item.

vesica tempestas.1563:

Why do YOU feel pushed into buying gems for gold?, I don’t, I buy what I want, skins can wait, I have long term goals, perfect no?

I didn’t buy gold through gem, I’m not stupid.

I’m saying it gives people, especially CASUAL PLAYERS, which represent the majority of GW2 player-base, a stronger incentive to buy gems for gold, because not all players are Day-1 starter that have everything prepared/done.

Even day-1 starter got hit severely under this new system, what do you think about the newer/more casual players?

You really need to learn a little about economics, and especially for games with fluid economies, like this one. Inflation only occurs in currencies, not materials. Everything in the game is tied to gold and other currencies. Materials can be thought of as a pseudo-currency, but it’s very limited (available slots in inventory/bank).

You also have a serious misunderstanding of the purpose of gold being tradable for gems. It’s not just for ANet to earn money. The real purpose is to keep inflation and deflation in check. It’s akin to being on the gold standard in real-life economics. The gold standard would eliminate all inflation and deflation, but at the cost of making economic boom and bust cycles much more painful to endure. The same is true in game economies.

Daddicus.6128:

You really need to learn a little about economics, and especially for games with fluid economies, like this one. Inflation only occurs in currencies, not materials. Everything in the game is tied to gold and other currencies. Materials can be thought of as a pseudo-currency, but it’s very limited (available slots in inventory/bank).

You also have a serious misunderstanding of the purpose of gold being tradable for gems. It’s not just for ANet to earn money. The real purpose is to keep inflation and deflation in check. It’s akin to being on the gold standard in real-life economics. The gold standard would eliminate all inflation and deflation, but at the cost of making economic boom and bust cycles much more painful to endure. The same is true in game economies.

Yeah, let’s endure 2 more years until the economy is stable again (chuckle)
(Info to you: Anet is gonna spike the economy every few months with their shiny new cool skins/ legendary weapons/armors, so the economy would always suffer the same shock again and again)

If this trend continues for 2 yrs, if Anet just leave the economy alone and SLOWLY stabilizing itself, which would take a LONGGG time, they’d have push most casual players away already lol. (Pushing most casuals away basically means pushing most of the players away)

Anet, as gov’t, need to manually interfere with the economy and solve this problem themselves, by either increasing the supply of materials through playing their “real contents”, or decrease the material consumption on all the “shiny stuffs”, be it legendary, be it guild hall.

Interpret however you like. The majority of player-base are angry and suffering under the new economy. Only some dedicated farmers or exploiters of TP are profiting under the current system.

Material prices are high because of demand. People running multiple ascended sets, guild hall upgrades, and precursor crafting, all giving us high demand on materials. It will calm down when the rush is over, so sell now, buy later.

Aomine.5012:

The majority of player-base are angry and suffering under the new economy. Only some dedicated farmers or exploiters of TP are profiting under the current system.

I’m neither mega-farmer or TP-exploiter, but I’m doing relatively okay for the investment of play time.

I’d be doing a lot better if ANet would stop screwing me over with “salvage this thing for rare materials, OOPS YOU DIDN’T GET IT HAHA TRY AGAIN” but now I just sell rares instead of gambling for ecto.

I’d also be doing a lot better if ANet would review their drop rates on certain rare items (specifically, named exotics), so they’re actually available for reasonable sums. And no, I don’t care about kitten from TP barons who have to pay fees to relist exploited items at lower prices.

Daddicus.6128:

The same is true in game economies.

Only if you believe a virtual economy needs to be as heavily regulated as the real one.

If not then you’ll have less manipulation from the “legislators” if you will and have a more lazzie faire economic condition which is actually favorable for virtual economies as the entire design is supposed to be sustaining the product around entertainment value not around a gold standard.

The problem with having a standard like that in the first place is it drastically limits if not removes viable routes for fun and rewarding content due to some person having to find a fixed value they deem to be not detrimental. The equilibrium of such a thing occurring is pretty much impossible to achieve as the objectives are in direct opposition to each other (Unless you’re an economist). I think i can safely say that’s not the case for the vast majority of the player base. Very few people actually play the game to play the market. One could say it’s even fewer than those that play the game for “Raids” and we can already see how much heat “Raiders/Raiding” gets for its minimal impact in the game.

Rauderi.8706:

Aomine.5012:

The majority of player-base are angry and suffering under the new economy. Only some dedicated farmers or exploiters of TP are profiting under the current system.

I’m neither mega-farmer or TP-exploiter, but I’m doing relatively okay for the investment of play time.

I’d be doing a lot better if ANet would stop screwing me over with “salvage this thing for rare materials, OOPS YOU DIDN’T GET IT HAHA TRY AGAIN” but now I just sell rares instead of gambling for ecto.

I’d also be doing a lot better if ANet would review their drop rates on certain rare items (specifically, named exotics), so they’re actually available for reasonable sums. And no, I don’t care about kitten from TP barons who have to pay fees to relist exploited items at lower prices.

Selling rares instead of “gambling for ecto” is generally a bad idea, right? For example, it makes sense to sell a rare sword for 61s or a rare staff for 58s instead of salvaging, but it is better to salvage rare leggings that are selling for 32s on the TP or a rare spear going for 28s. Or maybe I am doing it all wrong?

Sheobix.8796:

fractals reward empty boxes with green gear that ends up being salvaged/vendored for 50c… or efforts go towards making infusions and pieces of gear that cost astronomical amounts of a certain resource

What fractals are you playing? Those boxes contain, usually trash worth the 20s key it takes to open them, a stack of 5 t6 mats, trash worth up to 5g (literally a trash item that vendors for 5g) ascended breather recipies (worth less than the trash items hilariously.) keys to open more boxes, stabilizing matrices to buy more keys with, or occasionally some ascended gear. If you have the extra loot mastry, they also contain a bunch of bonus agony inscriptions. (Which, if you have the mastry, you can very easily combine and slot in an attuned ring to easily increase your AR)

You don’t actually ever loot blues or greens from the encryptions. You get them from end chests and mob drops.

If you’re doing fractals and not opening encryptions, you’re throwing away the bulk of your rewards.

I do all of six fractals a day for the daily rotation (still building AR for 50+) and generally come out 5-20 gold richer.

They’re also apperantly bumping up liquid rewards from fractals in a patch this month.

Anyone complaining about fractal rewards, I’m convinced, played like levels 1-5 and stopped there. It’s a scaling reward/difficulty system. Get in to 30+ personal scale and you’ll find the payoff in fractals is actually right up there with old dungeon runs.

William Bradley Knight.2609:

Selling rares instead of “gambling for ecto” is generally a bad idea, right? For example, it makes sense to sell a rare sword for 61s or a rare staff for 58s instead of salvaging, but it is better to salvage rare leggings that are selling for 32s on the TP or a rare spear going for 28s. Or maybe I am doing it all wrong?

The gamble is better if the rare is below ecto value, yes. So, below 30s you probably want to salvage.

But, RNGsus forsakes me, so I don’t bother with the disappointment. Though, for cloth rares, I still take the chance, because silk.

William Bradley Knight.2609:

Selling rares instead of “gambling for ecto” is generally a bad idea, right? For example, it makes sense to sell a rare sword for 61s or a rare staff for 58s instead of salvaging, but it is better to salvage rare leggings that are selling for 32s on the TP or a rare spear going for 28s. Or maybe I am doing it all wrong?

You are correct. But it also depends on the cost of ectos. You get 0-3 from each rare salvaged. The estimated rate is .875 ectos per rare when salvaging with a rare kit, so mystic or master. The price of an ecto is currently 33s, that means a rare must sell for 28.9s or more. If we include the ah fees it’s 33.2s. So if I rare is greater than that price, it’s better to sell. If it’s less it’s better to salvage. But that’s also not including the value of materials. That varies greatly with wood and silk being the higher value right now. That can easily prop up the sell price to around 36s.