Guild Wars 2

What about the Unidentified dyes? will the black lion chest(aside personal story quests) be the only way to get them still?

Can’t you trade laurels for them?

I love how we are getting all the bad news once majority of the players have already per-purchased HOT. – Great Strategy!

Step 1: Please pre-order this amazing Convertible car, look at all the cool features you are getting!!!

Step 2: Ty for the $$ =D

Step 3: You know, we have decided that people may not actually use the convertible feature unless we remove the Air conditioner from the car, so at this point we will be removing the air conditioner, in order to “de-incentivize” people from keeping their windows up. You will still get that cool air by just pulling your windows down and the removing the hood.

If you really wanted to fix the economy, you could have done it many other ways.
Not cutting off the only reliable way to earn gold….this game was always supposed to be “Play as you want” and not “Play our Fractals and Raids” otherwise you are not making substantial progress.

I am very disappointed in this decision, I really hope you will change your mind about removing gold from dungeons and instead balance it by doing so:

Lower gold rewards from: dungeons that have lower difficulty and can be run much faster. (look at all the data at your disposal – p1 cof can be turned to 75s etc…)
Increase gold rewards from: the difficult dungeons or the ones that take longer like Arah p4, Atherbladepath etc)

Balance the gold on-par with Fractals, and Fractals continues to give the Ascended drops making it slightly more rewarding and attractive.

That is the correct approach, not completely removing gold from dungeons….

I feel sorta bad for those whom did not buy the expansion… they used to have dungeons to make money… if those rewards are now to be redistributed to raids, and they can’t do them… well that’s a bit nasty. We’ll have to see how it turns out, but I could see folks who’d paid for the original game and chosen not to update being even more sour.

A good way of adding gold sinks instead of removing gold sources, would be bring back costs for repair, and this way people actually would care about dieng and will incentive more defensinve builds too.

Yeah I sort of thought that charging elite equipment weilders repair costs would be a good way to have those whom were just starting catch up in money (since rare and below wouldn’t require equipment repair costs) and those with the luxury goods would get taxed if they were damaged.

JediYoda.1275:

Ayrilana.1396:

JediYoda.1275:

Ayrilana.1396:

JediYoda.1275:

Ayrilana.1396:

JediYoda.1275:

Ayrilana.1396:

Morhyn.8032:

Ayrilana.1396:

SkiTz.4590:

This is just frustratingly sad….

Why don’t you just delete dungeons? honestly, you clearly just stated you don’t want players doing them…

Where did they state that they don’t want players doing dungeons?

Page 1 of this thread.

Nowhere does he state that they do not want players doing dungeons.

Disincentivizing Dungeons makes it pretty clear on their intent as they rather have players play the new content instead plus revamped fractals.

Read the rest of his post. Shifting some of the gold rewards away from dungeons to other areas of the game is not the same as not wanting players to do dungeons.

I’ve read it and I just don’t buy that’s their only motive

Of course. Since them redoing a lot of rewards, and having to rebalance, must mean that they have some heinous motive and are out to get those players who do dungeons.

It’s very clear they want it to be dead content

If you want to take everything they say at face value by all means do so, while others like myself will take allot of what they say with a grain of salt and rightly so. They have said allot over the years and their actions don’t always back up it and still haven’t on some things to date still. Before release of core game they said dyes will be account bound, all five mini games would be in at release then on release nope that wasn’t the case at all. They later flip flopped and made dyes account bound, little over 3 years later still not all mini games that was promised. (Just 2 examples out of more I could give)

So excuse me for not taking everything they say like its the gospel.

No it’s not clear that they want dungeons to be dead content. You’re just making the assumption by reading to much into what they’re doing and not understanding the why.

Oh please, and please don’t try to insult my intelligence! also this is my last reply to you.

@JediYoda – Every thread you are involved in has you saying this when people disagree with you. Like as soon as someone points out your tinfoil hat stuff is wrong or misguided you just say you are no longer listening to them and then get mad when others ignore your whining.

On Topic – The aggrieved parties about this nerf do not have sound logic. You all use the defense that dungeons “are not the most lucrative” and “sw afk farm is better” as a defense to stop the nerf of gold rewards in dungeons. AT THE SAME TIME you all say that dungeon content is “core to the game” and “ANET hates their players for ruining this excellent content”, yet you now declare them dead from a nerf to their GOLD amount. Not a nerf to unique rewards or moving those rewards somewhere else, just a reduction of gold rewarded.

So which is it? Either dungeons are good core content which is fun in and of themselves OR You admittedly run them because they really are the best pure gold source and are super duper easy to farm.
The real problem is most of you cant admit to yourselves that you just want easy gold and dungeons are your current place to get it.

This might be more of a Colin question but: Why do you want to put gold behind content that is gear gated? Both fractals and Raids require you to have ascended gear which new players are less likely to have.

Also: Why do you want to increase scarcity of crafting materials needed in order to play the rewarding content (ascended crafting)?

Personally I have ascended armor, decent capital, and will make it through just fine. But I’m asking because if the intent is to keep new players in the loop in HoT, this change would appear to cause the opposite. Then again I’m not the economist, so that’s why I’m curious what your explanation is.

It could be that “disincentivizing” is a term of art from an economist’s standpoint. He might just have meant “we don’t want the incentive to play dungeons to be that they are a gold faucet, so we are removing (some of) the economic incentive to play them.”

He’s an economist, not a PR spinner in tune with how laymen will interpret his terminology.

CandyHearts.6025:

Agree. At least add tokens. What harm can tokens do?

It’s a reasonable course of action. If I recall properly (and I might not), token rewards are account bound anyway, so beyond salvage, they create very little wealth on their own. It would make Dark Matter a smidgen easier to get and possibly help balance down the cost of ecto.

Donari.5237:

It could be that “disincentivizing” is a term of art from an economist’s standpoint. He might just have meant “we don’t want the incentive to play dungeons to be that they are a gold faucet, so we are removing (some of) the economic incentive to play them.”

He’s an economist, not a PR spinner in tune with how laymen will interpret his terminology.

Bingo. This is how I read it as well.

Take away legendary armor from raids and I bet there wouldn’t be a ton of players playing it because of the good core content either.

displacedTitan.6897:

@JediYoda – Every thread you are involved in has you saying this when people disagree with you. Like as soon as someone points out your tinfoil hat stuff is wrong or misguided you just say you are no longer listening to them and then get mad when others ignore your whining.

No point in going around and around so at some point I decide to make it clear enough is enough, so agree to disagree and move on like I told them.

You whining about my supposedly whining makes you a whiner too and I guess every thread starter/poster is whiner that disagrees with your views. Because that’s exactly how allot of people come across on this forum! I get mad? roflmao good one!!

So nice try and have a nice day, I know I will

On Topic – The aggrieved parties about this nerf do not have sound logic. You all use the defense that dungeons “are not the most lucrative” and “sw afk farm is better” as a defense to stop the nerf of gold rewards in dungeons. AT THE SAME TIME you all say that dungeon content is “core to the game” and “ANET hates their players for ruining this excellent content”, yet you now declare them dead from a nerf to their GOLD amount. Not a nerf to unique rewards or moving those rewards somewhere else, just a reduction of gold rewarded.

So which is it? Either dungeons are good core content which is fun in and of themselves OR You admittedly run them because they really are the best pure gold source and are super duper easy to farm.
The real problem is most of you cant admit to yourselves that you just want easy gold and dungeons are your current place to get it.

Its fun content but even if it was the best dungeon in all MMO from all time if it has 0 reward after running the same dungeon 100 times you would not want to run it again even if that is really fun. Content need to be fun AND have a reasonable reward, dont say otherwise, 0 content can live long only by being fun.

OnizukaBR.8537:

On Topic – The aggrieved parties about this nerf do not have sound logic. You all use the defense that dungeons “are not the most lucrative” and “sw afk farm is better” as a defense to stop the nerf of gold rewards in dungeons. AT THE SAME TIME you all say that dungeon content is “core to the game” and “ANET hates their players for ruining this excellent content”, yet you now declare them dead from a nerf to their GOLD amount. Not a nerf to unique rewards or moving those rewards somewhere else, just a reduction of gold rewarded.

So which is it? Either dungeons are good core content which is fun in and of themselves OR You admittedly run them because they really are the best pure gold source and are super duper easy to farm.
The real problem is most of you cant admit to yourselves that you just want easy gold and dungeons are your current place to get it.

Its fun content but even if it was the best dungeon in all MMO from all time if it has 0 reward after running the same dungeon 100 times you would not want to run it again even if that is really fun. Content need to be fun AND have a reasonable reward, dont say otherwise, 0 content can live long only by being fun.

Again, this all comes down to the EASE of getting this pure gold source from these dungeons, not the content, not the unique rewards/skins. Its the pure and easy gold source that is getting people worked up.

Will none of the defenders own up and admit that you just WANT this easy and mindless gold farm in the game because you like the simplicity of it? Why pretend its about the “content” or “ANet devaluing the players” Just say you want EZ AFK farming, hell, if more people had been honest that’s what they wanted from this game then ANet would be catering to you in the XPack and not moving away from the EZ AFK farm’s of yore.

Donari.5237:

It could be that “disincentivizing” is a term of art from an economist’s standpoint. He might just have meant “we don’t want the incentive to play dungeons to be that they are a gold faucet, so we are removing (some of) the economic incentive to play them.”

He’s an economist, not a PR spinner in tune with how laymen will interpret his terminology.

Makes sense.

However, I don’t think there’s enough unique rewards to mandate doing this at this point. I think that if this is the intent and purpose, and not wanting to push players away from dungeons in general, then they should also do the following:

• Take the masterwork and rare trinkets/backpieces that drop in the dungeon and make them exotic and slightly rarer.
• Give said backpieces unique models.
• Make the recipes that drop from bosses craft ascended stat-selectable trinkets rather than exotics.
• Give every dungeon an equivalent to the Aetherpath’s blue nightmare weapons.

This would give people a non-liquid gold incentive to play the dungeons, more than just the stuff that’s either useless (masterwork/rare trinkets/backpieces) or stuff that players have had a long time to get (armor/weapons from vendors).

Ok, I see a lot of fans who dont like the way it feels trying to reintepret the meaning of what he said.
Eliminate the editorial and you have the truth.

there is no hidden meaning to the word disincentivize.

it means to take away an incentive so as to make something less desirable to do.

they do want people to stop doing dungeons as part of regular play.

This is key to understanding this change. Why? because it changes the type of feedback you should give.

1) they are not going to rebalance the rewards, because the goal is not to make dungeons a balanced source of earning in the top teir
2) they are not going to choose non liquid rewards because the goal is to not have dungeons be done as much.

They want to encourage people to play elsewhere, they are no longer going to tell people, via gold that dungeons is one of the main ways you should play this game.

will this likely drastically decrease the amount of people who do dungeons? definately. MMOS are very reward focused, even if you enjoy content, if its not a worthwhile use of time, many people wont do it very often.

displacedTitan.6897:

OnizukaBR.8537:

On Topic – The aggrieved parties about this nerf do not have sound logic. You all use the defense that dungeons “are not the most lucrative” and “sw afk farm is better” as a defense to stop the nerf of gold rewards in dungeons. AT THE SAME TIME you all say that dungeon content is “core to the game” and “ANET hates their players for ruining this excellent content”, yet you now declare them dead from a nerf to their GOLD amount. Not a nerf to unique rewards or moving those rewards somewhere else, just a reduction of gold rewarded.

So which is it? Either dungeons are good core content which is fun in and of themselves OR You admittedly run them because they really are the best pure gold source and are super duper easy to farm.
The real problem is most of you cant admit to yourselves that you just want easy gold and dungeons are your current place to get it.

Its fun content but even if it was the best dungeon in all MMO from all time if it has 0 reward after running the same dungeon 100 times you would not want to run it again even if that is really fun. Content need to be fun AND have a reasonable reward, dont say otherwise, 0 content can live long only by being fun.

Again, this all comes down to the EASE of getting this pure gold source from these dungeons, not the content, not the unique rewards/skins. Its the pure and easy gold source that is getting people worked up.

Will none of the defenders own up and admit that you just WANT this easy and mindless gold farm in the game because you like the simplicity of it? Why pretend its about the “content” or “ANet devaluing the players” Just say you want EZ AFK farming, hell, if more people had been honest that’s what they wanted from this game then ANet would be catering to you in the XPack and not moving away from the EZ AFK farm’s of yore.

dungeons arent an afk farm. have you ever done a dungeon? or are you talking about something else.
fractals are not different from dungeons untill you hit like level 27 or so. and they are going to rebalance difficulty to make it easier in beginning, so that will probably be like 35-37. point is there is no great reason that dungeons are getting disincentivized, other than the very simple. they no longer want to support that software. like when they stop supporting win xp. sure you can use it, but we aint going to encourage you to do so.

Ayrilana.1396:

Morhyn.8032:

Ayrilana.1396:

SkiTz.4590:

This is just frustratingly sad….

Why don’t you just delete dungeons? honestly, you clearly just stated you don’t want players doing them…

Where did they state that they don’t want players doing dungeons?

Page 1 of this thread.

Nowhere does he state that they do not want players doing dungeons.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/Economy-Questions-Repost/first#post5602939

Literally says it right here, from page 1.

Dinks.2478:

Ayrilana.1396:

Morhyn.8032:

Ayrilana.1396:

SkiTz.4590:

This is just frustratingly sad….

Why don’t you just delete dungeons? honestly, you clearly just stated you don’t want players doing them…

Where did they state that they don’t want players doing dungeons?

Page 1 of this thread.

Nowhere does he state that they do not want players doing dungeons.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/Economy-Questions-Repost/first#post5602939

Literally says it right here, from page 1.

No. Disincentivizing dungeons is not the same as telling players that he does not want them to do dungeons.

Dinks.2478:

Ayrilana.1396:

Morhyn.8032:

Ayrilana.1396:

SkiTz.4590:

This is just frustratingly sad….

Why don’t you just delete dungeons? honestly, you clearly just stated you don’t want players doing them…

Where did they state that they don’t want players doing dungeons?

Page 1 of this thread.

Nowhere does he state that they do not want players doing dungeons.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/Economy-Questions-Repost/first#post5602939

Literally says it right here, from page 1.

For the actual quote:

Is the intention to deincentivize dungeons
Yes

Now, the key word here is “deincentivize”. To remove one or more incentives to do something.

Let’s imagine you have a playground with slides, swings, and so on. Kids and even some adults will play on it because they find it fun, or they’re playing with their friends or children. Now, let’s say that you also tell people that you’ll give them $20 dollars to play on the swings for an hour. Things suddenly change, don’t they? You have people using the swings just to get the money, and to the possible determent of those that actually wanted to use them for fun.

What they’re doing here is removing the $20 “incentive” to play in the dungeons. People will still do it, but more so for the intended reasons. Yes, there will be fewer people doing it, but those that do it will likely be enjoying themselves more in the process. There will be less pressure to earn rewards, because you could easily find better ways to earn the money if that’s what you’re after.

I’m not sure if I explained that very well, but if they really wanted people to just stop playing them, they could nuke them from orbit.

Ayrilana.1396:

No. Disincentivizing dungeons is not the same as telling players that he does not want them to do dungeons.

It rather is.

To deincentivize something is to remove incentive to do something. Without incentive, people do not do stuff.

So removing incentive to do stuff = making it so people don’t want to do it.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Torolan.5816:

@König des Todes
You don´t know Anet won´t drop them. You just don´t. If the next cycle of fotm content is reached, raids may be dropped quickly again under the flag of “This is new, this is groundbreaking, this is exciting!”. Could very well reasonably happen.
Konrad Adenauer probably said it best:
“What do I care for my speech from yesterday?”

Exactly. My. Point.

Technically, we can never know for sure.

But now ArenaNet has given us empirical evidence that would support them dropping it. Because just about all past “new, groundbreaking, exciting” stuff they did end up dropping after 1 or 2 iterations.

With the intention to deincentivize dungeons, here’s my question for ArenaNet:

Where’s the casual/semi-casual 5-man group gameplay?

• You have open world – full on casual, even Tequatl is by now.
• You have story instances – full on casual, and solo’d.
• You have fractals – short timespan 5-man high level content, with how they’re going about things.
• You have raids – long timespan 10-man high level content

Dungeons fill a particular niche and they are trying to remove it. They are removing part of their playerbase. They’re not just ignoring dungeons anymore, they’re removing them. Maybe not fully – yet, at least – but that’s what they’re doing.

And if ArenaNet is willy-nilly about removing working-but-not-perfect content in GW2 when even in GW1 the most broken content in terms of profit-to-easiness remained for years and years, what guarantee do we have that ArenaNet won’t remove other such content?

Ah, wait. They are. Underwater content they’re also removing, piece by piece.

@ArenaNet, you’re taking the game we paid for away. Do you really think people will keep paying long-term for this? Or have you become like EA – just interested in quick moneygrabs no matter what great games and stories you ruin?

you do realize you can play fractals pre 80, right? it actually gives you a good range of gear for your character, and pre-80’s can easily handle up to fractal level 8.

even level 10’s can handle level 1-5

shion.2084:

Can’t you trade laurels for them?

of course but that are account bound so they don’t effect economy that much

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Ayrilana.1396:

No. Disincentivizing dungeons is not the same as telling players that he does not want them to do dungeons.

It rather is.

To deincentivize something is to remove incentive to do something. Without incentive, people do not do stuff.

So removing incentive to do stuff = making it so people don’t want to do it.

If Anet nerfs all drops across the game by some percentage, does this mean they’re trying to remove incentive to play the game?

There’s still plenty of incentives to do dungeons such as for the tokens. You’ll also get drops and some coins. All that I have seen them say they are doing is reducing the amount of gold players will get from completing dungeon paths. That does not mean that they want players to no longer play dungeons.

Xbon.9086:

you do realize you can play fractals pre 80, right? it actually gives you a good range of gear for your character, and pre-80’s can easily handle up to fractal level 8.

even level 10’s can handle level 1-5

You do realize that fractal level 8 doesn’t give much rewards, right?

Any reward worth getting is from lvl 20+ And a pre-80 cannot do that – Agony begins at level 10, and you need ascended gear for that.

It’s also pretty obvious that the Fractals are becoming more hardcore with HoT’s release, and Anet, currently. doesn’t even point your characters to fractals until level 79 – for a reason.

Ayrilana.1396:

If Anet nerfs all drops across the game by some percentage, does this mean they’re trying to remove incentive to play the game?

There’s still plenty of incentives to do dungeons such as for the tokens. You’ll also get drops and some coins. All that I have seen them say they are doing is reducing the amount of gold players will get from completing dungeon paths. That does not mean that they want players to no longer play dungeons.

Nerfing across the game is different than nerfing across a single game mode.

And incentive to do dungeons for tokens? Once you get the collections those are rather pointless and you can complete the collections with far more effectiveness from PvP now.

It’s obvious that ArenaNet wants the “unique rewards” from dungeons to be the main thing to do them aside from the fun of it. But what I’m saying is that dungeons do not have enough unique rewards to merit this.

Reducing the monetary income is fine… if and only if the unique rewards from dungeons are worth something.

What are dungeons’ unique rewards?

• Tokens, tradeable for exotic weapons and armor – easier to get from PvP
• Masterwork trinkets/backpieces which are under level 80 – useless.
• Rare trinkets/backpieces which are level 80 – useless.
• Recipes for exotic trinkts – useful only if they match your stat and until you start getting ascended trinkets from laurels, etc.

So where are these useful dungeon-based unique rewards, I ask? I see none.

Also funny how John has stopped responding entirely ever since the huge outlash on the deincentivizing dungeons comment…

One thing they really need to do is nerf Silverwastes shovel trains. Whatever genius thought it was a good idea that one person can expose a chest that 100 can open with a huge increase in magic find should be fired if they haven’t been already. This perpetual, never ending source of gold has seriously borked the economy.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Xbon.9086:

you do realize you can play fractals pre 80, right? it actually gives you a good range of gear for your character, and pre-80’s can easily handle up to fractal level 8.

even level 10’s can handle level 1-5

You do realize that fractal level 8 doesn’t give much rewards, right?

Any reward worth getting is from lvl 20+ And a pre-80 cannot do that – Agony begins at level 10, and you need ascended gear for that.

It’s also pretty obvious that the Fractals are becoming more hardcore with HoT’s release, and Anet, currently. doesn’t even point your characters to fractals until level 79 – for a reason.

Ayrilana.1396:

If Anet nerfs all drops across the game by some percentage, does this mean they’re trying to remove incentive to play the game?

There’s still plenty of incentives to do dungeons such as for the tokens. You’ll also get drops and some coins. All that I have seen them say they are doing is reducing the amount of gold players will get from completing dungeon paths. That does not mean that they want players to no longer play dungeons.

Nerfing across the game is different than nerfing across a single game mode.

And incentive to do dungeons for tokens? Once you get the collections those are rather pointless and you can complete the collections with far more effectiveness from PvP now.

It’s obvious that ArenaNet wants the “unique rewards” from dungeons to be the main thing to do them aside from the fun of it. But what I’m saying is that dungeons do not have enough unique rewards to merit this.

Reducing the monetary income is fine… if and only if the unique rewards from dungeons are worth something.

What are dungeons’ unique rewards?

• Tokens, tradeable for exotic weapons and armor – easier to get from PvP
• Masterwork trinkets/backpieces which are under level 80 – useless.
• Rare trinkets/backpieces which are level 80 – useless.
• Recipes for exotic trinkts – useful only if they match your stat and until you start getting ascended trinkets from laurels, etc.

So where are these useful dungeon-based unique rewards, I ask? I see none.

Also funny how John has stopped responding entirely ever since the huge outlash on the deincentivizing dungeons comment…

Same concept. You’re basing Anet’s stance on that if they nerf an incentive to do something then that means that they do not want you to do it. It doesn’t matter whether it’s a specific thing within a game or the game itself.

Only easier to get in PvP if one does PvP. Just saying.

Also, only the dungeon weapon skins are easier to get in pvp. The armor is only rewarded once per track.

BTW, I hate fractals.

If you wanted Mawdry, you had to do a limited amount of fractals (5) to get it. I did my five and didn’t do any more. If you wanted to get your gifts for your weapons, you had to do about 8 dungeon runs. There will always be an incentive, as long as the gifts require dungeon tokens, to do dungeons. They just wont be as effective for gold however I dispute that in the long term but regardless, people will still have incentives to do dungeons just like the incentive they have to do fractals.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Xbon.9086:

you do realize you can play fractals pre 80, right? it actually gives you a good range of gear for your character, and pre-80’s can easily handle up to fractal level 8.

even level 10’s can handle level 1-5

You do realize that fractal level 8 doesn’t give much rewards, right?

Any reward worth getting is from lvl 20+ And a pre-80 cannot do that – Agony begins at level 10, and you need ascended gear for that.

It’s also pretty obvious that the Fractals are becoming more hardcore with HoT’s release, and Anet, currently. doesn’t even point your characters to fractals until level 79 – for a reason.

Ayrilana.1396:

If Anet nerfs all drops across the game by some percentage, does this mean they’re trying to remove incentive to play the game?

There’s still plenty of incentives to do dungeons such as for the tokens. You’ll also get drops and some coins. All that I have seen them say they are doing is reducing the amount of gold players will get from completing dungeon paths. That does not mean that they want players to no longer play dungeons.

Nerfing across the game is different than nerfing across a single game mode.

And incentive to do dungeons for tokens? Once you get the collections those are rather pointless and you can complete the collections with far more effectiveness from PvP now.

It’s obvious that ArenaNet wants the “unique rewards” from dungeons to be the main thing to do them aside from the fun of it. But what I’m saying is that dungeons do not have enough unique rewards to merit this.

Reducing the monetary income is fine… if and only if the unique rewards from dungeons are worth something.

What are dungeons’ unique rewards?

• Tokens, tradeable for exotic weapons and armor – easier to get from PvP
• Masterwork trinkets/backpieces which are under level 80 – useless.
• Rare trinkets/backpieces which are level 80 – useless.
• Recipes for exotic trinkts – useful only if they match your stat and until you start getting ascended trinkets from laurels, etc.

So where are these useful dungeon-based unique rewards, I ask? I see none.

Also funny how John has stopped responding entirely ever since the huge outlash on the deincentivizing dungeons comment…

you’re missing the point, if you’re pre 80 you’re not going to need the rewards from 21+ fractals, you’re only going to need the currency and equippables.

Alright,

So what I can see is that not only was the community not thought of in this decision, it was completely just pushed to the side and basically told that here you go play this content, it is the only way that “you will be able to get to your goal faster” and we are making dungeons more bothersome to the point where you shouldn’t even do them…. seems logical a game that based it self of the community is deciding to mess up what the community already enjoys. they are afraid that they will have less people in the new zones so they want to just force them in it…. lowering drops and making dungeons less effective seems to be a horrible way force players into an expansion… now it is about money…. make the dungeons not as good make people buy HoT and that is going to be the main gold income…..

I’m a little confused about the dungeon nerfs with a mind to incentivising Fractals further. Fractals are, after all, a series of mini dungeons, albeit with scaling difficulty. I say potato, you say potayto.

My concern is that the Ascended grind will become really onerous if there is no more efficient way to obtain materials for it. For light armour wearers in particular, the materials are really expensive.

John, can I ask – given that higher level Fractals and (disputably) Raids are likely to require Ascended gear much of the time, this (more of a) ’buyer’s market’ you plan to create: will it make it easier for players to collect Ascended gear in terms of its constituent materials? If the end result is that it takes players longer to accomplish the same goal, that’s just adding extra mileage to the gear treadmill so players can reach that content. If it creates a more level playing field in terms of newer and older players, that’s a great change imo, and I can see what you did there.

Having said that, I understand if you can’t answer that, because the price of silk would probably tank if you did.

Hey, John Smith. I have some questions.

1. Why do you hate PvE so much?
2. Why does Anet have to make so many bad decisions?
3. Why are you trying to force Fractals? They’re not fun.
4. Why don’t you add real dungeons and just remove Fractals from existence.
5. Why is your response to #4 a bullkitten answer? :^)

Dowski.8601:

Hey, John Smith. I have some questions.

1. Why do you hate PvE so much?
2. Why does Anet have to make so many bad decisions?
3. Why are you trying to force Fractals? They’re not fun.
4. Why don’t you add real dungeons and just remove Fractals from existence.
5. Why is your response to #4 a bullkitten answer? :^)

Well played Good sir

shion.2084:

I feel sorta bad for those whom did not buy the expansion… they used to have dungeons to make money… if those rewards are now to be redistributed to raids, and they can’t do them… well that’s a bit nasty. We’ll have to see how it turns out, but I could see folks who’d paid for the original game and chosen not to update being even more sour.

That’s the point. They don’t want f2p to be able to get lots of gold. They want them to upgrade to HoT – or whatever the latest xpac might be. Then they can access the ways to make gold.

munki.6402:

Dowski.8601:

Hey, John Smith. I have some questions.

1. Why do you hate PvE so much?
2. Why does Anet have to make so many bad decisions?
3. Why are you trying to force Fractals? They’re not fun.
4. Why don’t you add real dungeons and just remove Fractals from existence.
5. Why is your response to #4 a bullkitten answer? :^)

Here, ladies and gentlemen, is a brilliant example of how not to get questions answered. Stellar peevishness slathered with smarmy entitlement. Really first rate.

Yeah, because these garbage changes warrant anything else. Not.

Malediktus.9250:

John Smith.4610:

Is the intention to deincentivize dungeons
Yes

Why would you want people to to play a kind of content less? Dungeons are a core piece of each MMO.

They want to direct them to alternative content they are investing resources in.

munki.6402:

Dowski.8601:

Hey, John Smith. I have some questions.

1. Why do you hate PvE so much?
2. Why does Anet have to make so many bad decisions?
3. Why are you trying to force Fractals? They’re not fun.
4. Why don’t you add real dungeons and just remove Fractals from existence.
5. Why is your response to #4 a bullkitten answer? :^)

Here, ladies and gentlemen, is a brilliant example of how not to get questions answered. Stellar peevishness slathered with smarmy entitlement. Really first rate.

way to fall for the troll. SMH

Ravage.6574:

Alright,

So what I can see is that not only was the community not thought of in this decision, it was completely just pushed to the side and basically told that here you go play this content, it is the only way that “you will be able to get to your goal faster” and we are making dungeons more bothersome to the point where you shouldn’t even do them…. seems logical a game that based it self of the community is deciding to mess up what the community already enjoys. they are afraid that they will have less people in the new zones so they want to just force them in it…. lowering drops and making dungeons less effective seems to be a horrible way force players into an expansion… now it is about money…. make the dungeons not as good make people buy HoT and that is going to be the main gold income…..

The thing is that people are not seeing the bigger picture. What they did should make sense once the expansion releases.

Ravage.6574:

Alright,

So what I can see is that not only was the community not thought of in this decision, it was completely just pushed to the side and basically told that here you go play this content, it is the only way that “you will be able to get to your goal faster” and we are making dungeons more bothersome to the point where you shouldn’t even do them…. seems logical a game that based it self of the community is deciding to mess up what the community already enjoys. they are afraid that they will have less people in the new zones so they want to just force them in it…. lowering drops and making dungeons less effective seems to be a horrible way force players into an expansion… now it is about money…. make the dungeons not as good make people buy HoT and that is going to be the main gold income…..

Sir/Ma’am you get it

Dowski.8601:

munki.6402:

Dowski.8601:

Hey, John Smith. I have some questions.

1. Why do you hate PvE so much?
2. Why does Anet have to make so many bad decisions?
3. Why are you trying to force Fractals? They’re not fun.
4. Why don’t you add real dungeons and just remove Fractals from existence.
5. Why is your response to #4 a bullkitten answer? :^)

Here, ladies and gentlemen, is a brilliant example of how not to get questions answered. Stellar peevishness slathered with smarmy entitlement. Really first rate.

Yeah, because these garbage changes warrant anything else. Not.

They don’t warrant abusive posts. I wouldn’t want to field posts like that as part of my day job – I imagine devs and related people don’t either.

Dowski.8601:

Hey, John Smith. I have some questions.

1. Why do you hate PvE so much?
2. Why does Anet have to make so many bad decisions?
3. Why are you trying to force Fractals? They’re not fun.
4. Why don’t you add real dungeons and just remove Fractals from existence.
5. Why is your response to #4 a bullkitten answer? :^)

Agreed, fractals were a fun concept until we discovered that adding new fractals wasn’t happening… It would be a great concept if we had more and more fractals to make it random.
Now even the random thing is going to vanish. So pretty much fractals are changing from something unique, to fast-food-type dungeons that can be farmed over and over, because now you can actually pick swamp every kitten time.

Now dungeons, they told us a story, were larger, and should be more engaging than fractals, but if fractals were disregarded, and stayed an unfinished product (although its their “road for the future” as small group content) dungeons are now being actively disincentivised… And as someone not an economist, and as such with high levels of common sense, i’d like to ask, how is that productive in any way? How is it cost-effective to have the ton of man hours that were already spent on making dungeons be disregarded like this?
Do you even realize that fractals are not dungeons? They’re not the same kind of content, one can’t, and shouldn’t replace the other. Dungeons are stories, fractals are just stuff we do for ascended loot and cool skins.
For a game so into their story and lore, doing this to dungeons is a big let-down.

Honestly… For the first time since i pre-purchased HoT, i’m regretting it. Not even the failed raid beta, not even the huge flop of the mordrem invasion event did that.

Beware of poking the bear.

Ayrilana.1396:

Ravage.6574:

Alright,

So what I can see is that not only was the community not thought of in this decision, it was completely just pushed to the side and basically told that here you go play this content, it is the only way that “you will be able to get to your goal faster” and we are making dungeons more bothersome to the point where you shouldn’t even do them…. seems logical a game that based it self of the community is deciding to mess up what the community already enjoys. they are afraid that they will have less people in the new zones so they want to just force them in it…. lowering drops and making dungeons less effective seems to be a horrible way force players into an expansion… now it is about money…. make the dungeons not as good make people buy HoT and that is going to be the main gold income…..

The thing is that people are not seeing the bigger picture. What they did should make sense once the expansion releases.

If there was a bigger picture why not be up front about it rather than saying “we are nerfing this just because”

Honestly there is no reason to nerf Salvage and Dungeons unless they really did not have faith that they put enough rewards in new zones to make players play in those zones. That is a soft incentive which retains the integrity of old content.

Right now, yes I could do dungeons to get gold but I am also incentivized in a positive way to go to places like Silverwastes event/chest map if I want more mats to use or sell rather than pure gold. What they needed to do is simply make the new zones worth it to run rather than force ppl to play it because “it is the best content we have left”.

cygnus.8913:

Dowski.8601:

munki.6402:

Dowski.8601:

Hey, John Smith. I have some questions.

1. Why do you hate PvE so much?
2. Why does Anet have to make so many bad decisions?
3. Why are you trying to force Fractals? They’re not fun.
4. Why don’t you add real dungeons and just remove Fractals from existence.
5. Why is your response to #4 a bullkitten answer? :^)

Here, ladies and gentlemen, is a brilliant example of how not to get questions answered. Stellar peevishness slathered with smarmy entitlement. Really first rate.

Yeah, because these garbage changes warrant anything else. Not.

They don’t warrant abusive posts. I wouldn’t want to field posts like that as part of my day job – I imagine devs and related people don’t either.

Maybe don’t make terrible changes that nobody would ever think wouldn’t have terrible backlash?

I know Anet doesn’t do a lot of it, but they could think about that for about 4 seconds and realize this was a bad idea.

Senario.2038:

Ayrilana.1396:

Ravage.6574:

Alright,

So what I can see is that not only was the community not thought of in this decision, it was completely just pushed to the side and basically told that here you go play this content, it is the only way that “you will be able to get to your goal faster” and we are making dungeons more bothersome to the point where you shouldn’t even do them…. seems logical a game that based it self of the community is deciding to mess up what the community already enjoys. they are afraid that they will have less people in the new zones so they want to just force them in it…. lowering drops and making dungeons less effective seems to be a horrible way force players into an expansion… now it is about money…. make the dungeons not as good make people buy HoT and that is going to be the main gold income…..

The thing is that people are not seeing the bigger picture. What they did should make sense once the expansion releases.

If there was a bigger picture why not be up front about it rather than saying “we are nerfing this just because”

Honestly there is no reason to nerf Salvage and Dungeons unless they really did not have faith that they put enough rewards in new zones to make players play in those zones. That is a soft incentive which retains the integrity of old content.

Right now, yes I could do dungeons to get gold but I am also incentivized in a positive way to go to places like Silverwastes event/chest map if I want more mats to use or sell rather than pure gold. What they needed to do is simply make the new zones worth it to run rather than force ppl to play it because “it is the best content we have left”.

Exactly, I try to run my dungeons everyday with my guild we usually do every single path…. now our fun gets ruined because we have to be forced into something that has not even came out, and we have little info on what it has to offer. even if it kittens out a precursor… I just want the content that I enjoy to remain un affected.

munki.6402:

Dowski.8601:

munki.6402:

Dowski.8601:

Hey, John Smith. I have some questions.

1. Why do you hate PvE so much?
2. Why does Anet have to make so many bad decisions?
3. Why are you trying to force Fractals? They’re not fun.
4. Why don’t you add real dungeons and just remove Fractals from existence.
5. Why is your response to #4 a bullkitten answer? :^)

Here, ladies and gentlemen, is a brilliant example of how not to get questions answered. Stellar peevishness slathered with smarmy entitlement. Really first rate.

Yeah, because these garbage changes warrant anything else. Not.

“Not”? Did you just watch Wayne’s World?

Anyway, none of the specific changes have been announced. It’s the usual, “sky is falling” attitude of this forum, or perhaps some gamers in general, feeding into the doom and gloom. As was mentioned, dungeons are a broken gold faucet that have long needed to be and are being nerfed. The qq is being justified by lofty notions of dedication to content, but the heart of the matter is that mommy took the teat away and now the broken farm can’t be exploited any longer.

No this isn’t the case at all. dungeons would take more than 3 hours to complete for an average of 20 g per day…… go run sw for an hour…. or better yet just do your events, for the same amount of time…. see this was a more interactive way to earn the gold…. not just run around like a bunch of helmet heads getting free gold from SW or DT and eve Karka…. talk about broken just look at your Obi shards. t6 mats like crazy….. Sir re evaluate your answers they are a bit.. well dull.

John Smith.4610:

Is the intention to deincentivize dungeons
Yes

Is the intention to deincentivize buying the expansion?
No, but it certainly has had that effect!

These changes are horrible, manipulative and completely arbitrary. I can’t believe how terrible this game has gone since launch. Bunch of money-hungry grubs, that’s all ANet is anymore.