Elite specializations overshadow old ones?

Elite specializations overshadow old ones?

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Posted by: foste.3098

foste.3098

This is just the vibe i got from the blog post, but it looks like there is no reason not to pick the chronomancer specialization. It gives you a powerful new shatter and a new weapon, but the thing is you don’t really give up anything for it except 1 other trait line, but given how strong chronomancy looks like who cares.

It is probably to soon to judge but if every class gets uber strong elite specializations then no one will run the base ones, because there is no reason not to take the ones that up give you super strong new abilities. This is not the idea that was set up earlier this year, where it was said that players would have reason to stick to the core professions (specializations).

Ehh maybe i am just paranoid or stupid for thinking every class will just run the elite spec in every build after hot.

see no evil ,until i stab you

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Posted by: Jerus.4350

Jerus.4350

Ehh no use worrying, just trust that the devs will put some kind of stipulation on things to prevent it from being out of control, or at least try and keep trying till it hits the right spot or under.

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Posted by: nacario.9417

nacario.9417

They said all specs are meant to be on par. Tbh I wish they’d call it something else than “elite” spec as it sounds as if its the better spec.

Power Ranger PvP
I used to be a power ranger, now not sure anymore

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Posted by: green plum.7514

green plum.7514

I have the same concern. I mean, ability to reduce cooldowns on yourself and allies? Just that alone most likely makes Chronomancer line a no-brainer for min-maxers.

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Posted by: Windu The Forbidden One.6045

Windu The Forbidden One.6045

It’s called an ‘elite’ specialization, obviously it should be better than the base spec.

Dear A-net: Please nerf rock. Paper is fine
~Sincerely, Scissors

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Posted by: Sagat.3285

Sagat.3285

It’s called an ‘elite’ specialization, obviously it should be better than the base spec.

+1 It’s a loss-loss if it’s really equal then necro doomsday is closer than we tought if it’s not then base necro is dead.

Attachments:

“Revenant is actual proof that devs read the necromancer forum” – Pelopidas.2140
The Dhuumfire thread

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Posted by: Jerus.4350

Jerus.4350

It’s called an ‘elite’ specialization, obviously it should be better than the base spec.

+1 It’s a loss-loss if it’s really equal then necro doomsday is closer than we tought if it’s not then base necro is dead.

That’s a lot of ones, where do you think their release parties are?

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Posted by: Sagat.3285

Sagat.3285

It’s called an ‘elite’ specialization, obviously it should be better than the base spec.

+1 It’s a loss-loss if it’s really equal then necro doomsday is closer than we tought if it’s not then base necro is dead.

That’s a lot of ones, where do you think their release parties are?

Exactly.

“Revenant is actual proof that devs read the necromancer forum” – Pelopidas.2140
The Dhuumfire thread

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Posted by: foste.3098

foste.3098

It’s called an ‘elite’ specialization, obviously it should be better than the base spec.

But but but they said all specializations (trait lines) are suppose to be onpar, the mesmer one just looks like a pure powerup.
The thing that really bugs me (and this may not be true) is that i thought by picking a elite spec you get a new weapon, and utility, healing and elite skills and a different/augmented profession mechanic, but also lose a weapon, the bottom trait line (since that buffs your current profession mechanic which is changing) and a skill set. That way you sacrifice something in order to get a different play style for the profession.

The way the chronomancer looks like (and again this could be completely false) is you just get more power with no drawback. It would be more interesting if a mesmer that chooses the chronomancy line loses for example mind wreck, the torch and glamours, but gets a shield the new shatter skill and the new mesmer wells.

see no evil ,until i stab you

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Posted by: none.9681

none.9681

3rd best trait line (for the build I want to run)

vs

elite spec trait line
new weapon choice
5 new skills
new powerful mechanic (if we take the example of Chronomancer and his F5 and Alacrity, I guess other elite specs will have something similarly powerful)

It seems like a pretty straightforward choice. Yes, in some cases, the 3rd trait line will be important for synergy, but the way most trait lines are done, the odds seem to be really in favor of simply taking elite spec. (especially in cases like Necromancer, where 2 trait lines are still laughable after the ‘rework’)

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Posted by: Boro.7359

Boro.7359

From what we see, Chronomancer boosts up parties with alacrity (think of Blood is Power, on conset steroids from gw1), can spike twice, laugh at recharges with one skill… pretty nasty. Though, I have yet to see what the mesmer’s true potential is, being level 20 and all…

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Posted by: Strill.2591

Strill.2591

Yes it’s supposed to be better. That’s why you’re only allowed to have one elite spec. They said they’ll be adding more elite specs as the game goes on.

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Posted by: foste.3098

foste.3098

Yes it’s supposed to be better.

No they never said that elite specs are going to be strictly better, if it were so then once hot drop you would never see any of the core classes in any game mode again (since by choosing the elite spcec your mesmer is no longer called a mesmer, it is now a chronomancer).
What they are suppose to do is give each class a different play style, this way the core classes (non elite specialized) still have a purpose for the way they play. The way this looks now (again all this worrying may be for no reason) is the elite spec is just a no brainer.

see no evil ,until i stab you

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Posted by: The Great Al.2546

The Great Al.2546

I agree that your concern is a valid one but I think that ANet is going to make a conscious effort to ensure that this doesn’t happen. I have a feeling that at least for this profession, the Chronomancer will be more or less required over a mesmer for dungeon runs.

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Posted by: runeblade.7514

runeblade.7514

I think that mesmer should have their own F5 skill or Chrono’s F5 skill gets into the F4 slot.

5x Warrior, 5x Ranger, 4x Elementalist, 4x Engineer,
4x Necromancer, 3x Mesmer, 4x Guardian, 4x Thief, 4 Revenant

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Posted by: Invictus.1503

Invictus.1503

Well they did name them “elite” which is defined as “a select part of a group that is superior to the rest in terms of ability or qualities”

It’s better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than to open it and remove all doubt.

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Posted by: EnergySlam.2793

EnergySlam.2793

Keep in mind we don’t know the numbers and exact traits yet. It might be underwhelming. Also consider that the shield has no phantasm + you trade in your focus interrupt/reflects.

New spec looks really, really cool though. I hope they don’t make the others boring compared to the mesmer.

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Posted by: Wallace MacBix.2089

Wallace MacBix.2089

Keep in mind we don’t know the numbers and exact traits yet. It might be underwhelming. Also consider that the shield has no phantasm + you trade in your focus interrupt/reflects.

New spec looks really, really cool though. I hope they don’t make the others boring compared to the mesmer.

The thing is though, you can be a chronomancer and still use a focus (no word on elite specs losing anything from the core class, other than the 3rd trait line). To be a chronomancer and gain access to F5 all yo need to do is lose a trait line, you can run your build exactly the same otherwise (plus whatever new traits you pick up) and still be your old mesmer, but (most likely) better.

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Posted by: Knighthonor.4061

Knighthonor.4061

They said all specs are meant to be on par. Tbh I wish they’d call it something else than “elite” spec as it sounds as if its the better spec.

it is better than a normal spec. it just has a trade off that balancing it out.

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Posted by: Wallace MacBix.2089

Wallace MacBix.2089

They said all specs are meant to be on par. Tbh I wish they’d call it something else than “elite” spec as it sounds as if its the better spec.

it is better than a normal spec. it just has a trade off that balancing it out.

What is that trade out? I’m pretty sure we’ve been told that the spec isn’t losing anything that the base class has. It’s just getting added to.

A mesmer loses nothing (besides from the 3rd trait line) to gain an F5 and access to a cool down decreasing effect that can be shared with a party. They can still run most of their normal build, just change a utility, and they gain a lot more versatility. If each spec gets something as cool as alacrity why would we want to be our base class?

Build’s that focus on 2 trait lines only need to decide do they want a 3rd core line or to become the specialization and potentially gain a lot more. My zerker ele friend is happy to go into Fire, Water, Air. But he’d happily lose Lighting Rod if it gets him an F5 for becoming a tempest. With my War build, I can recreate 90-95% of what I have now with just 2 trait lines. So, I only need to compare the warrior spec to one of the new lines, and I’m getting stronger, and if I’m forced into the spec to get an F2, it’s kind of a no brainer.

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Posted by: Knighthonor.4061

Knighthonor.4061

They said all specs are meant to be on par. Tbh I wish they’d call it something else than “elite” spec as it sounds as if its the better spec.

it is better than a normal spec. it just has a trade off that balancing it out.

What is that trade out? I’m pretty sure we’ve been told that the spec isn’t losing anything that the base class has. It’s just getting added to.

A mesmer loses nothing (besides from the 3rd trait line) to gain an F5 and access to a cool down decreasing effect that can be shared with a party. They can still run most of their normal build, just change a utility, and they gain a lot more versatility. If each spec gets something as cool as alacrity why would we want to be our base class?

Build’s that focus on 2 trait lines only need to decide do they want a 3rd core line or to become the specialization and potentially gain a lot more. My zerker ele friend is happy to go into Fire, Water, Air. But he’d happily lose Lighting Rod if it gets him an F5 for becoming a tempest. With my War build, I can recreate 90-95% of what I have now with just 2 trait lines. So, I only need to compare the warrior spec to one of the new lines, and I’m getting stronger, and if I’m forced into the spec to get an F2, it’s kind of a no brainer.

Elite Specs lose out on one of the core lines because it replaces it. So thats a big trade off. Elite get new mechanics to make up for it.

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Posted by: Diovid.9506

Diovid.9506

Let’s just wait until we have actual data on skill casting times, skill cooldown times, traits and so on.

Yes it’s supposed to be better. That’s why you’re only allowed to have one elite spec.

Nope. They have quite clearly stated that elite specs should not be better than normal specs. You should still have a reason to not take the elite spec according to Anet. Besides, they don’t want people with HoT to be stronger than people without HoT, neither in PvE nor in PvP.

(edited by Diovid.9506)

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Posted by: Jayden Ennok.3687

Jayden Ennok.3687

Makes me wonder what elite thieves will get and the amount of QQ it’ll generate

Underworld Vabbi 1.5yr

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Posted by: Valmir.4590

Valmir.4590

I think that they’re hyping the elite specs for now., that’s why we can’t see any drawback yet. But if I remember well, it was said at some point that the “elite” would lose access to some weapons/skills (and it seems that some skills are gated by the new trait system-at least I had that impression).

Furthermore, the chronomancer seems to require quite a lot of knowledge and reactivity to be used at its best. It is quite possible that to play an elite specialization in a correct way, a player will have to invest a lot more into it than he did with the core class, which could lead to some gap -at least for a time- between the effectiveness of an elite class and a core class.

But now, it was a magical class here. Thieves, warriors and engineers won’t be as flashy, I think.

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Posted by: Andraus.3874

Andraus.3874

You lose a phantasm which is pretty big in certain cases. For example fractals there’s lots of ranged fights so you’re pretty much stuck with iBerserker and therefore phantasm build is pretty much out. Although it seems Chrono won’t work as well anyway with phantasm build anyway…

But yeah it is way too soon to tell. Mesmer definitely needs some upgrading for PvE and I’m not quite sure how this will end up working in pvp.

Anet also might be trying to balance classes in terms of PVP vs WvW vs PvE. So that each class is viable in all different aspects of the game. No need to panic yet.

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Posted by: Meglobob.8620

Meglobob.8620

I think some of specializations will be amazing and OP, initially.

A cynical person may say, they will do this on purpose to make you want to buy the expansion.

But enjoy them well you can because this is GW2 and your not allowed under any circumstances whatsoever to have powerful spells, at least in the long term. So 3 months after HoT is released every new decent trait/skill will be massively nerfed into utter boring uselessness.

I have 3 years of GW2 development as 100% proof this will happen.

Really, don’t worry about any of the new specializations being OP, because once Arena Net gets your $$$ then they will heavily nerf anything remotely good.

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Posted by: Astralporing.1957

Astralporing.1957

You lose a phantasm which is pretty big in certain cases. For example fractals there’s lots of ranged fights so you’re pretty much stuck with iBerserker and therefore phantasm build is pretty much out. Although it seems Chrono won’t work as well anyway with phantasm build anyway…

They actually straight out said they designed it to work with phantasm builds as well. And you don’t lose any phantasms if you don’t want to – you can be a chronomancer and not take the shield, remember.

Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November

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Posted by: rhodoc.2381

rhodoc.2381

They need to decouple new weapons skills from new trait line then maybe people may not pick it up.

[VcY] Velocity – Gargamell

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Posted by: ZudetGambeous.9573

ZudetGambeous.9573

They said all specs are meant to be on par. Tbh I wish they’d call it something else than “elite” spec as it sounds as if its the better spec.

it is better than a normal spec. it just has a trade off that balancing it out.

What is that trade out? I’m pretty sure we’ve been told that the spec isn’t losing anything that the base class has. It’s just getting added to.

A mesmer loses nothing (besides from the 3rd trait line) to gain an F5 and access to a cool down decreasing effect that can be shared with a party. They can still run most of their normal build, just change a utility, and they gain a lot more versatility. If each spec gets something as cool as alacrity why would we want to be our base class?

Build’s that focus on 2 trait lines only need to decide do they want a 3rd core line or to become the specialization and potentially gain a lot more. My zerker ele friend is happy to go into Fire, Water, Air. But he’d happily lose Lighting Rod if it gets him an F5 for becoming a tempest. With my War build, I can recreate 90-95% of what I have now with just 2 trait lines. So, I only need to compare the warrior spec to one of the new lines, and I’m getting stronger, and if I’m forced into the spec to get an F2, it’s kind of a no brainer.

Elite Specs lose out on one of the core lines because it replaces it. So thats a big trade off. Elite get new mechanics to make up for it.

Do you have a source for this? As far as i’m aware you just choose this as one of your 3 trait lines, it doesn’t “replace” anything.

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Posted by: Invictus.1503

Invictus.1503

They said all specs are meant to be on par. Tbh I wish they’d call it something else than “elite” spec as it sounds as if its the better spec.

it is better than a normal spec. it just has a trade off that balancing it out.

What is that trade out? I’m pretty sure we’ve been told that the spec isn’t losing anything that the base class has. It’s just getting added to.

A mesmer loses nothing (besides from the 3rd trait line) to gain an F5 and access to a cool down decreasing effect that can be shared with a party. They can still run most of their normal build, just change a utility, and they gain a lot more versatility. If each spec gets something as cool as alacrity why would we want to be our base class?

Build’s that focus on 2 trait lines only need to decide do they want a 3rd core line or to become the specialization and potentially gain a lot more. My zerker ele friend is happy to go into Fire, Water, Air. But he’d happily lose Lighting Rod if it gets him an F5 for becoming a tempest. With my War build, I can recreate 90-95% of what I have now with just 2 trait lines. So, I only need to compare the warrior spec to one of the new lines, and I’m getting stronger, and if I’m forced into the spec to get an F2, it’s kind of a no brainer.

Elite Specs lose out on one of the core lines because it replaces it. So thats a big trade off. Elite get new mechanics to make up for it.

Do you have a source for this? As far as i’m aware you just choose this as one of your 3 trait lines, it doesn’t “replace” anything.

It does replace a core specialization, but not in the way you are thinking. It replaces a specialization SLOT You can still combine the elite specialization with any two core specializations. You don’t lose out on the option to choose from those core specializations, but you still only get to use three of them at a time and the elite takes up one of those options.

Later, when there are multiple elite specializations per profession, they will be mutually exclusive. This means that if you choose one elite specialization you will not be able to choose a second elite specialization at the same time.

It’s better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than to open it and remove all doubt.

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Posted by: ZudetGambeous.9573

ZudetGambeous.9573

They said all specs are meant to be on par. Tbh I wish they’d call it something else than “elite” spec as it sounds as if its the better spec.

it is better than a normal spec. it just has a trade off that balancing it out.

What is that trade out? I’m pretty sure we’ve been told that the spec isn’t losing anything that the base class has. It’s just getting added to.

A mesmer loses nothing (besides from the 3rd trait line) to gain an F5 and access to a cool down decreasing effect that can be shared with a party. They can still run most of their normal build, just change a utility, and they gain a lot more versatility. If each spec gets something as cool as alacrity why would we want to be our base class?

Build’s that focus on 2 trait lines only need to decide do they want a 3rd core line or to become the specialization and potentially gain a lot more. My zerker ele friend is happy to go into Fire, Water, Air. But he’d happily lose Lighting Rod if it gets him an F5 for becoming a tempest. With my War build, I can recreate 90-95% of what I have now with just 2 trait lines. So, I only need to compare the warrior spec to one of the new lines, and I’m getting stronger, and if I’m forced into the spec to get an F2, it’s kind of a no brainer.

Elite Specs lose out on one of the core lines because it replaces it. So thats a big trade off. Elite get new mechanics to make up for it.

Do you have a source for this? As far as i’m aware you just choose this as one of your 3 trait lines, it doesn’t “replace” anything.

It does replace a core specialization, but not in the way you are thinking. It replaces a specialization SLOT You can still combine the elite specialization with any two core specializations. You don’t lose out on the option to choose from those core specializations, but you still only get to use three of them at a time and the elite takes up one of those options.

Later, when there are multiple elite specializations per profession, they will be mutually exclusive. This means that if you choose one elite specialization you will not be able to choose a second elite specialization at the same time.

Ok that’s what I thought. He made it sound like if you chose the specialization then there would be a trait line that you simply could not access, which I don’t believe is the case.

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Posted by: Atherakhia.4086

Atherakhia.4086

What’s sad is as a power Necro, I couldn’t care less what the elite specialization has. It has to be better than the alternatives as none of the other 3 lines available are worth taking.

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Posted by: Starlightmagus.8654

Starlightmagus.8654

Yes, it adds in new mechanics. Yes, it adds in some powerful abilities. But you ARE still giving up something. Not class mechanics, no, but say for mesmer….okay, you want Chronomancy as one. Then you have two others. Dueling for Deceptive Evasion. Then you have a choice. Do you want to go into Illusions or Domination? If you’re a Shatter mesmer, that’s a difficult choice, because with Illusions you get decreased CD on your shatters (including the nifty Chronomancer one), but with Domination you get 25% increased damage on them.

Maybe you can just give up Dueling and-oh, wait, then you don’t have Deceptive Evasion.

People are pretty reactionary without having a chance to actually play with stuff.

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Posted by: NiBlack.3149

NiBlack.3149

Well… Shield have phantasm…
Honestly these shield skills make my warrior cry in comparison how Kittened skills have warrior there.

I am also concerned about balance. Because what they now showed looked like totally no brainer.
They didn’t said if they disable any weapons, but what they showed and were talking it look that only possible weapon to disable would be GS/focus.

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Posted by: Palindrome.8904

Palindrome.8904

They didn’t said if they disable any weapons, but what they showed and were talking it look that only possible weapon to disable would be GS/focus.

People choosing elite specs don’t lose anything.
Edit: They can only choose two core spec lines, but they don’t lose weapon or utility access.

Chronomancer looks like the highest risk/reward gamble in any class yet. If someone is really good with it, they will be able to do amazing things, but at the same time, there are some huge drawbacks. The fact that you can force a Chronomancer back to their shift point by destroying it is a massive PvP tradeoff. Can you undo all that damage that just happened to you? Maybe. But you could also find yourself melting under an AoE or burst down by someone waiting for you to teleport back.

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Posted by: NiBlack.3149

NiBlack.3149

PvE → No Brainer. I don’t see any drawbacks.
(I am PvE player)

(these are outsider point of view)
WvW → Chronomancer offer lot of utility (I would say more than base class) . With EXCLUSIVE buff, that make you act faster. It is much easier to use stuff in chaos.
Specialization should work better there.

PvP → Still offers lot of utility. While maybe it have higher skill cap, the counterplay seems also very reactive.
There is one thing about high skill, high reward design. It usually leave lower rewards designs behind.

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Posted by: Arewn.2368

Arewn.2368

You lose a phantasm which is pretty big in certain cases. For example fractals there’s lots of ranged fights so you’re pretty much stuck with iBerserker and therefore phantasm build is pretty much out. Although it seems Chrono won’t work as well anyway with phantasm build anyway…

Chrono shield has a phantasm on the block ability.

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Posted by: striker.3704

striker.3704

It depends entirely on the build your running as to whether or not the elite specialization is a strict upgrade.

For example, for my minion master build I run axe as my primary weapon, meaning I take spite, death, and blood magic. With the new trait system, blood magic and death magic have a lot of synergy between the necromantic corruption GM trait and the blood GM trait that draws conditions from allies, let alone the life siphon.

If I take the new specialization, my only option to get rid of is the blood spec as death magic is core to MM builds and the axe synergizes extremely well with minions. This means I’d have to give up survivability through blood magic for what could potentially benefit me, let alone give up that grand master trait combo.

The only way this new specialization would be better for my build, is if it somehow had jagged horror creation in one of it’s skills. Otherwise I’m better off without it.

D/S/R necromancer F/A/T elementalist
S/I/F engineer Z/R/D guard

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Posted by: Sirendor.1394

Sirendor.1394

Since these elite specialisations will be the first changes about the classes we have seen since launch, I think they will get a lot more attention than older ones, basically because everyone is bored of playing classes with the same old mechanics.

As to being more powerful… if chronomancer didn’t have this time-shift shatter ability it would certainly be on par with any other trait combo, but time-shift itself looks like a major reason to get it, even if you’re not going to play with shield.

Another argument is that people who do not use the elite specialisations will have a big lack of being able to counter them, because they can’t play them. In my experience, the better you can play a class yourself, the better you can counter it.

Either way… expect a lot of Greatsword & Sword/Shield mesmers when HoT launches.

Gandara – Vabbi – Ring of Fire – Fissure of Woe – Vabbi
SPvP as Standalone All is Vain

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Posted by: Argon.1563

Argon.1563

Using Mesmer/Chronomancer is a bit of a bad example, because all of Mesmer’s core specs are pretty bad, while Chronomancer is an obvious choice, so im sure nobody will have any issues with sacrificing a traitline to activate Chronomancer.

I think the really hard decision will come with Elementalist/Tempest, because pretty much every PVE Ele will choose Air/Water/Arcana, and all 3 of those are quite integral core specs, so it will be quite hard deciding which to drop when becoming a Tempest.

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Posted by: jgcd.6041

jgcd.6041

It’s less that specializations will be “better” than the standard ones, so much as they add new dimensions to gameplay.

The devs basically told us that going a specialization means gaining something, while losing out somewhere else. The stock, non-elite, builds will still have general utility.

- This is a forum, expect logic to get left at the door, beaten bloody, and set on fire.

- The more asinine the post or thread, the more I am amused.

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Posted by: Kilger.5490

Kilger.5490

I was thinking the same, the specializations sound more like mandatory advancement when they are sort of packaged as a “choice”.

I think at first they will be more powerful to motivate people to advance in the new content, then they will be scaled back to be more in line with basic spec as the new-ness wears off.

Typical with MMO’s the developers throttle the class benefits to get us to keep leveling or re-rolling, thats one way they keep the player base playing.

Kilger – Human Ranger
alts: Fangyre (Necro), Hardrawk (Ele);
Jade Quarry

Elite specializations overshadow old ones?

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: MaXi.3642

MaXi.3642

judging by the first example, I would say it’s a direct buff, mesmer haven’t lost anything except for one trait line which is a must choice if they want elite spec, there is no other cons (if you consider this even a cons)… but as said, mesmer isn’t in a very good spot now, so it can be the reason it’s a pretty sure choice… lets wait for guardian spec, he is pretty good right now, so the spec should look much more balanced compared to the current state, if not, we have the pattern

Elite specializations overshadow old ones?

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: nopoet.2960

nopoet.2960

It is probably to soon to judge but if every class gets uber strong elite specializations then no one will run the base ones, because there is no reason not to take the ones that up give you super strong new abilities. This is not the idea that was set up earlier this year, where it was said that players would have reason to stick to the core professions (specializations).

I think you’re right that no one will play the core specs after a while but it’s a short term issue that will be resolved once they add more elite specializations.

Elite specializations overshadow old ones?

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: nopoet.2960

nopoet.2960

Also does anyone else see the potential for muli classing under this new system? Mechanically it could be as simple as selecting two elite specs. I haven’t seen any speculation about this but the possibility seem very real.