Future of Guild Wars 2
in these leaks you are refering what exactly is recycled?
Look like all new maps, Masteries, Specializations, etc. to me.
I’d ask, as well…what’s recycled?
It’s funny. ANet tried some really visionary things for an MMO closer to the start of the game. Things like no levels, easy acquisition of BiS stats, and a near-universal reward currency, with RNG playing little role beyond getting Precursors. The MMO fan base said no to all of that, either directly, or by taking actions which were bad for the health of the game.
As to the “recycled” comment. Yeah, what the heck do you mean by that?
I agree with those who say what’s recycled. I’ve seen the same leaks as everyone else. I don’t see much recycling at all.
Another vague complaint in which the OP will likely never mention the true meaning of his complaint.
‘would have/would’ve been’ —> correct
‘would of been’ —> wrong
‘would of been’ —> wrong
They “recycled” content like maps, events, elite specialisations and masteries. I also heard they recycled the idea of enemies that move around and that you have to defeat in order to get XP and loot. Oh and they recycled loot too.
The basic building blocks of the game. All recycled.
If they innovated to the degree that the OP apparently wants then we’d be playing a different game and a lot of people would hate that.
It’s funny. ANet tried some really visionary things for an MMO closer to the start of the game. Things like no levels, easy acquisition of BiS stats, and a near-universal reward currency, with RNG playing little role beyond getting Precursors. The MMO fan base said no to all of that, either directly, or by taking actions which were bad for the health of the game.
As to the “recycled” comment. Yeah, what the heck do you mean by that?
I dont know how you can say that.
Literally its like 50/50 from the people i know.
Many of us loved the LW with the dungeons, World Events and so on. Like the destruction of kessex hills and LA were amazing.
Then you have the other 50% who said " look what i missed out on, thats not fair" and voiced complaints.
Anet probably saw the issue of time. They spend time to create events where people might or might not have time to play it. They have gone very traditional with how this MMO is.
I mean Guild halls are a grind, unlocking new specs are kind of a grind. I mean in GW1 you had to do story, events to unlock skills. Ok that made sense, HOT you really just pick a path to learn and gather XP.
Dont know how you could comment on health of the game from the LS differences. heck PvP and WvW have been on life support for the past 2 years.
It’s funny. ANet tried some really visionary things for an MMO closer to the start of the game. Things like no levels, easy acquisition of BiS stats, and a near-universal reward currency, with RNG playing little role beyond getting Precursors. The MMO fan base said no to all of that, either directly, or by taking actions which were bad for the health of the game.
As to the “recycled” comment. Yeah, what the heck do you mean by that?
I dont know how you can say that.
Literally its like 50/50 from the people i know.
Many of us loved the LW with the dungeons, World Events and so on. Like the destruction of kessex hills and LA were amazing.
Then you have the other 50% who said " look what i missed out on, thats not fair" and voiced complaints.
Anet probably saw the issue of time. They spend time to create events where people might or might not have time to play it. They have gone very traditional with how this MMO is.
I mean Guild halls are a grind, unlocking new specs are kind of a grind. I mean in GW1 you had to do story, events to unlock skills. Ok that made sense, HOT you really just pick a path to learn and gather XP.
Dont know how you could comment on health of the game from the LS differences. heck PvP and WvW have been on life support for the past 2 years.
WvW has never been on “life support”. It certainly has less players than it did years ago, but that doesn’t equate to life support.
More to the point, it doesn’t matter what 50% of the people anyone knows says, because it’s too small a sampling to be meaningful.
But saying this game has gone traditional when it had an expansion that neither raised the level cap or added a new tier of gear is a bit disingenuous.
Did they add raids? Sure they did. But the raids are still different from raids in most games I’ve played.
I’ve played a LOT of MMOs and this game isn’t anything like most of them…in my opinion anyway.
It’s funny. ANet tried some really visionary things for an MMO closer to the start of the game. Things like no levels, easy acquisition of BiS stats, and a near-universal reward currency, with RNG playing little role beyond getting Precursors. The MMO fan base said no to all of that, either directly, or by taking actions which were bad for the health of the game.
As to the “recycled” comment. Yeah, what the heck do you mean by that?
I dont know how you can say that.
Literally its like 50/50 from the people i know.
Many of us loved the LW with the dungeons, World Events and so on. Like the destruction of kessex hills and LA were amazing.
Then you have the other 50% who said " look what i missed out on, thats not fair" and voiced complaints.
Anet probably saw the issue of time. They spend time to create events where people might or might not have time to play it. They have gone very traditional with how this MMO is.
I mean Guild halls are a grind, unlocking new specs are kind of a grind. I mean in GW1 you had to do story, events to unlock skills. Ok that made sense, HOT you really just pick a path to learn and gather XP.
Dont know how you could comment on health of the game from the LS differences. heck PvP and WvW have been on life support for the past 2 years.
I guess it’s a good thing I didn’t comment on the health of the game based on LS differences, then. Seriously, I comment about the move away from no levels and easy BiS stats and the decline of Karma, and this somehow gets equated to LS?
Very traditional? While the things I talked about changed to incorporate more traditional elements, that does not mean the game has no innovative features. Cooperative rather than competitive PvE, gathering, etc. are still a thing. Quasi-action combat is still a thing. Events, while no longer gone once their window passes, are still not quite the same as quests. Then there’s the stuff Vayne commented on.
If the latest LS3 episode is anything to go by then the future of the game is…… confused. Invisible updrafts, random teleports, waypoints that don’t show as waypoints and a right old mish-mash of skills on the map-specific skill bar. It’s like they used up all the floor sweepings in one go.
If the latest LS3 episode is anything to go by then the future of the game is…… confused. Invisible updrafts, random teleports, waypoints that don’t show as waypoints and a right old mish-mash of skills on the map-specific skill bar. It’s like they used up all the floor sweepings in one go.
The random teleport thing is just a maze. They’re not actually random. There’s a pattern to them which to me makes for interesting play.
Shrines aren’t waypoints, they’re simply something new added to the game. Why include them? Because sometimes different is okay. It’s a currency sink. You get currency pretty kitten fast on that map.
There are different types of players. People like me, who play a LOT, love stuff like the new map, because it shakes things up. I even like updrafts that fade and reappear, because it adds not only challenging, but requires you to think on your feet. That’s enjoyable to me. Static updrafts , once you know how to get somewhere, are old hat already. It’s okay to shake stuff like that up in my opinion.
Guy in my guild is an older guy who likes flatter, less confusing maps. His favorite LS map is Lake Doric, which is my least favorite.
The big issue with the new map is latency/lag. Hopefully today’s update has fixed that.
(edited by Vayne.8563)
If LS3 is the future for this game I’m probably gone. It takes someone with a 4 year degree in college to play this now.
Agreed
Obviously people asking what is recycled are trying to derail because this entire topic will be taken down if the TC mentions the actual spoilers.
When the game launched the innovation was high and welll received the issues where that some basic features from the last game were absent. Basic things like templates and the overuse of the waypoint making things just as bad as flying in other games. Since the roads aren’t full of players but rather people warping around.
The redundancies in the leaks I’ve seen expressed before at other places are redundancies seen in different aspects of the game. Which have gotten worse with the introduction of the mastery system.
Agreed
Obviously people asking what is recycled are trying to derail because this entire topic will be taken down if the TC mentions the actual spoilers.
When the game launched the innovation was high and welll received the issues where that some basic features from the last game were absent. Basic things like templates and the overuse of the waypoint making things just as bad as flying in other games. Since the roads aren’t full of players but rather people warping around.
The redundancies in the leaks I’ve seen expressed before at other places are redundancies seen in different aspects of the game. Which have gotten worse with the introduction of the mastery system.
I don’t know I’ve seen a lot of leaks without redudancy. But it doesn’t matter because I don’t judge games before I’ve played them. Anyone saying the expansion is redundant is making assumptions.
Some of us prefer to actually see something before we judge.
If LS3 is the future for this game I’m probably gone. It takes someone with a 4 year degree in college to play this now.
No it does not.
My wife got her a 2 yr degree in 1986 and that’s all the of the ‘degrees’ that she has. Her job title before she resigned 4 months ago was “Commissioning Engineer for Automatically Guided Vehicles”. And her previous job is calling and texting trying to still have her work both without getting paid and also trying to get her to come back into a job, any job, including doing IT. She keeps getting phone calls from head hunters to work at various other companies doing that job. And all this is with just an a 2 yr degree from 1986. What has set her apart from all those with Bachelors and Masters degrees around her is her willingness to learn – software, electrical, mechanical – whatever is needed to do whatever is asked of her on a job.
Agreed
Obviously people asking what is recycled are trying to derail because this entire topic will be taken down if the TC mentions the actual spoilers.
When the game launched the innovation was high and welll received the issues where that some basic features from the last game were absent. Basic things like templates and the overuse of the waypoint making things just as bad as flying in other games. Since the roads aren’t full of players but rather people warping around.
The redundancies in the leaks I’ve seen expressed before at other places are redundancies seen in different aspects of the game. Which have gotten worse with the introduction of the mastery system.
I don’t know I’ve seen a lot of leaks without redudancy. But it doesn’t matter because I don’t judge games before I’ve played them. Anyone saying the expansion is redundant is making assumptions.
Some of us prefer to actually see something before we judge.
No such thing as perfection so treating the game as such gets you no where.
Some of us don’t blindly defend however how many different types of Swiftness exist in this game? How many different ways to jump? How many story arcs repeat? How many things have been abandoned? How many have been overly fixated on?
Even on this site there is a topic about Anets need to showhorn jump mechanics in with releases. During this last release the new mushroom jump is in the key line organs.
If the leaks are real the information is known and judgement has been made based on the information shown. I hate having to bring up reddit all the time but during the leaks it’s one of the places it was discussed at length. That too is a place the devs frequent. People don’t talk about the leaks much these days however because many simply don’t want to be spoiled.
First of all, saying someone defends someone blindly is a bit rich when you consider I just said I’m willing to wait and see. One of us is making a conclusion about a product that’s not out yet and the other is saying wait and see. I’m not even sure how that’s a defense. What you’re showing is a bias toward me because in your mind you’ve already labeled me a white knight. What I’m doing is being reasonable. If you feel it’s okay to draw conclusions about a product before you’ve seen it, that’s okay. I don’t think it’s okay, I’m entitled to that opinion. It’s neither unreasonable nor blind
But this other stuff you’re saying, about different ways to jump or different types of swiftness, well it’s funny but that’s the nature of fantasy and even fiction in general. There aren’t thousands of plots there are dozens. But there are millions of books.
There are only so many ways you can move. Some people look at the mechanics and see nothing but mechanics and some people look at the flavor of something and see something else. Seeing yourself launched out of a lava tube is a completely different thing than using a portal, even though for all practical purposes they act the same.
There are only so many ways you can move. There are only so many types of combat. In many games there are aoes and point blank aoes, often with different effects doing different damage. That doesn’t mean that using them is rehashing something.
At any rate, before you start bandying around words like blindly defending, maybe you should look and see if something is actually being defended.
My bais is due to your own comment about some of wanting to wait and see before coming to conclusions. If you don’t like people saying the same then I figure you shouldn’t have added such a thing to your initial reply. Furthermore your taking me as an individual a simple search will reveal I am not. Those were examples because the masteries are obvious and what you see as visual choice in masteries others simply do not. It was an example and isn’t the redundancies that people were talking about regarding the leaks.
Bad news for you….you ARE an individual. One person. No search of any sort will establish otherwise.
Also, waiting to judge a product until it is released, until the details are available to be judged, is not defending it or considering it to be perfect. Ive been arguing with Vayne on these forums for years now, but “Im going to wait and see before I judge,” is pretty much the most reasonable thing (IMO) that Ive ever seen him say.
But at least you admit to your bias.
its a gw2 the game mechanics are in place they may add a few things on top of them and thats about it dont expect a whole new game thats just over expecting stuff. we the fans love gw2 because its gw2.
Agreed
Obviously people asking what is recycled are trying to derail because this entire topic will be taken down if the TC mentions the actual spoilers.
When the game launched the innovation was high and welll received the issues where that some basic features from the last game were absent. Basic things like templates and the overuse of the waypoint making things just as bad as flying in other games. Since the roads aren’t full of players but rather people warping around.
The redundancies in the leaks I’ve seen expressed before at other places are redundancies seen in different aspects of the game. Which have gotten worse with the introduction of the mastery system.
I don’t know I’ve seen a lot of leaks without redudancy. But it doesn’t matter because I don’t judge games before I’ve played them. Anyone saying the expansion is redundant is making assumptions.
Some of us prefer to actually see something before we judge.
No such thing as perfection so treating the game as such gets you no where.
Some of us don’t blindly defend however how many different types of Swiftness exist in this game? How many different ways to jump? How many story arcs repeat? How many things have been abandoned? How many have been overly fixated on?
Even on this site there is a topic about Anets need to showhorn jump mechanics in with releases. During this last release the new mushroom jump is in the key line organs.
If the leaks are real the information is known and judgement has been made based on the information shown. I hate having to bring up reddit all the time but during the leaks it’s one of the places it was discussed at length. That too is a place the devs frequent. People don’t talk about the leaks much these days however because many simply don’t want to be spoiled.
First of all, saying someone defends someone blindly is a bit rich when you consider I just said I’m willing to wait and see. One of us is making a conclusion about a product that’s not out yet and the other is saying wait and see. I’m not even sure how that’s a defense. What you’re showing is a bias toward me because in your mind you’ve already labeled me a white knight. What I’m doing is being reasonable. If you feel it’s okay to draw conclusions about a product before you’ve seen it, that’s okay. I don’t think it’s okay, I’m entitled to that opinion. It’s neither unreasonable nor blind
But this other stuff you’re saying, about different ways to jump or different types of swiftness, well it’s funny but that’s the nature of fantasy and even fiction in general. There aren’t thousands of plots there are dozens. But there are millions of books.
There are only so many ways you can move. Some people look at the mechanics and see nothing but mechanics and some people look at the flavor of something and see something else. Seeing yourself launched out of a lava tube is a completely different thing than using a portal, even though for all practical purposes they act the same.
There are only so many ways you can move. There are only so many types of combat. In many games there are aoes and point blank aoes, often with different effects doing different damage. That doesn’t mean that using them is rehashing something.
At any rate, before you start bandying around words like blindly defending, maybe you should look and see if something is actually being defended.
My bais is due to your own comment about some of wanting to wait and see before coming to conclusions. If you don’t like people saying the same then I figure you shouldn’t have added such a thing to your initial reply. Furthermore your taking me as an individual a simple search will reveal I am not. Those were examples because the masteries are obvious and what you see as visual choice in masteries others simply do not. It was an example and isn’t the redundancies that people were talking about regarding the leaks.
Bad news for you….you ARE an individual. One person. No search of any sort will establish otherwise.
Also, waiting to judge a product until it is released, until the details are available to be judged, is not defending it or considering it to be perfect. Ive been arguing with Vayne on these forums for years now, but “Im going to wait and see before I judge,” is pretty much the most reasonable thing (IMO) that Ive ever seen him say.
But at least you admit to your bias.
I think it blew over that there are other places that guildwars 2 is discussed and as a messenger there are other people with differing views. My bias is dependant on the tone of people who reply. As for searches you can’t discuss leaks here without getting infracted and I probably couldn’t link a reddit or anything without the same happening.
Waiting to judge is fine I’m waiting for post launch feedback myself before I make my own judgement on whether I purchase it. However for now people will and discussing leaks and the information that will be releasing prior to launch including the vid at the end of S3 and Tuesdays announcement. Unless your waiting post release to buy it your going to make a judgment prior to release to make it day one. Most of the people here will probably pre-order it in advance without doing their research and then spend the next couple months making angry comments about such and such. Which will do more damage to the game than anything just look at HoT.
WvW has never been on “life support”. It certainly has less players than it did years ago, but that doesn’t equate to life support.
The two WvW guilds in which I’ve been on along four years (which peaked around ~40 and ~30 members, respectively) did entitely fade, so also fade ~3/4 of the ones I known. Hell, even 1/3 of the initial servers no longer exist.
Score is decided basically in absence: the first rated server if fighting against no one. My server (Gandara) is scoring this weekend 7,1k vs 4,7k vs 2,7k, which means that really there’s no one out there. “Life support” is truly an euphemism here. Same goes with PvP.
Most of the people which I made friendship in the game did leave BECAUSE HoT, and the next expansion looks alike to go in the same way. I known that those players WON’T return, so ANet should cross fingers to try to appeal as much new players as possibur, because the old, milked cow is dry.
How can the next expansion “looks alike to go in the same way” when we haven’t even received any official information about it? Even the leaks don’t tell us much other than vague information about possible Elite Specialization weapons and name, possible Masteries, and that there will be new maps.
Theres a fundamental limit on where any MMO can go.
Essentially all MMOs rely on punching buttons on keyboards and moving a mouse around whilst looking at pixels on a screen.
You can either have a game with levels which keep going up forever, aka WOW, or something with a level cap like GW2.
Apart from that , theres not much else that can be played around with that makes your MMO all that differant from anyone elses.
You need a world where players can wander around in , and monsters for players to kill and thats about it.
WvW has never been on “life support”. It certainly has less players than it did years ago, but that doesn’t equate to life support.
The two WvW guilds in which I’ve been on along four years (which peaked around ~40 and ~30 members, respectively) did entitely fade, so also fade ~3/4 of the ones I known. Hell, even 1/3 of the initial servers no longer exist.
Score is decided basically in absence: the first rated server if fighting against no one. My server (Gandara) is scoring this weekend 7,1k vs 4,7k vs 2,7k, which means that really there’s no one out there. “Life support” is truly an euphemism here. Same goes with PvP.
Most of the people which I made friendship in the game did leave BECAUSE HoT, and the next expansion looks alike to go in the same way. I known that those players WON’T return, so ANet should cross fingers to try to appeal as much new players as possibur, because the old, milked cow is dry.
Well that doesn’t mean WvW is on life support. It means your guilds and friends left. My guild is just as strong now as it was before HoT. And while it’s not a WvW guild there are people in the guild who focus on WvW much of the time and they have other WvW guilds.
There’s plenty of blobbing going on when I’ve been in there.
I’ve seen PvE guilds die too, but that doesnt’ mean PvE is dead Guilds die all the time.
I believe that Anet ruined the game by not sticking to its original concept but rather forcefully trying to be “innovative” all the time. It made the game chaotic in its mechanics and overloaded with childish stuff nobody needs, and the things that really matter (personalized content, higher replayability, good writing etc.) suffered under this constant pressure of being “innovative”.
I believe that Anet ruined the game by not sticking to its original concept but rather forcefully trying to be “innovative” all the time. It made the game chaotic in its mechanics and overloaded with childish stuff nobody needs, and the things that really matter (personalized content, higher replayability, good writing etc.) suffered under this constant pressure of being “innovative”.
This would be true if some of us didn’t like the game better now. Anet, in my opinion, didn’t change the game because they wanted to be innovative. They changed the game because a percentage of people walked away, stopped playing and never looked back, long before those changes you’re talking about were made. Just my opinion, but it fits with my observations.
Gee, I thought their original concept was to be innovative. I mean, that’s what they said even before the game launched. (It’s even in the Manifesto.)
Gee, I thought their original concept was to be innovative. I mean, that’s what they said even before the game launched. (It’s even in the Manifesto.)
I just think it’s funny how some people claim that the entire problem with this game is that Anet is innovating to innovate, and then other people turn around and say the game was originally innovative but now it’s just the same as other MMOs.
Sort of hard to reconcile those two complaints.
In my opinion, the truth is in the middle. Those who don’t LIKE the innovations, are going to complain they’re being done for no reason, in spite of the fact that there are people who like them.
I believe that Anet ruined the game by not sticking to its original concept but rather forcefully trying to be “innovative” all the time. It made the game chaotic in its mechanics and overloaded with childish stuff nobody needs, and the things that really matter (personalized content, higher replayability, good writing etc.) suffered under this constant pressure of being “innovative”.
Being innovative is the original concept.
Gee, I thought their original concept was to be innovative. I mean, that’s what they said even before the game launched. (It’s even in the Manifesto.)
They also said they would have a personalized storyline before the game launched. (Was also even in the manifesto) =P
Though saying that innovation is part of Guild Wars 2 now is pretty much a stretch. Just some new gadgets in a map, doesn’t feel all that innovative to me. They had lots of stuff like that in the game since launch, which then got removed from starter zones because they were confusing. (??? what) And now they just add them to the latest maps without even thinking whether it might get a bit too much for some people.
“It isn’t working!” CL4P-TP
Ingame Name: Guardian Erik
Ingame Name: Guardian Erik
(edited by FrizzFreston.5290)
Gee, I thought their original concept was to be innovative. I mean, that’s what they said even before the game launched. (It’s even in the Manifesto.)
They also said they would have a personalized storyline before the game launched. (Was also even in the manifesto) =P
Though saying that innovation is part of Guild Wars 2 now is pretty much a stretch. Just some new gadgets in a map, doesn’t feel all that innovative to me. They had lots of stuff like that in the game since launch, which then got removed from starter zones because they were confusing. (??? what) And now they just add them to the latest maps without even thinking whether it might get a bit too much for some people.
What they meant by a personalized storyline was that it was different for different characters. Two human warriors in WoW follow the same story. Two human warriors in Guild Wars 2, not necessarily.
You’re taking the literal definition of what was said out of context. Within the context of MMOs, the personal story was personalized.
You’re taking the literal definition of what was said out of context. Within the context of MMOs, the personal story was personalized.
First of all, why are you explaining explicit details of a tongue in the cheek comment?
Second of all, I know what was said, and I’m not taking anything out of context more than you’re taking the innovation part of the manifesto out of context.
That was the whole point. The Manifesto is outdated on pretty much all the parts.
Third of all, the reason that people say ArenaNet lied is because personalized storyline doesn’t exist anymore. I never claimed anything otherwise. “Was” being the obvious key word here.
The concept of this game isn’t innovation as a standard concept at all anyway.
“It isn’t working!” CL4P-TP
Ingame Name: Guardian Erik
Ingame Name: Guardian Erik
Y’all have digressed far from the OP’s post which was asking ANet not to use recycled ideas or content. There are two problems with this request:
- The content/mechanics of the expac have long since been determined. Even if ANet agreed today, the game could not possibly be changed to reflect that any time soon.
- The OP hasn’t defined what they mean by “recycled content.” Or why it’s bad.
Accordingly, there’s nothing to discuss, unless the OP wants to get more specific. Right now, we’re using the first post as a Rohrschach illustrating more about our own preconceptions than offering ideas that might be useful to ANet in making choices that we like better (or worse) than the recent ones.
John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”
You’re taking the literal definition of what was said out of context. Within the context of MMOs, the personal story was personalized.
First of all, why are you explaining explicit details of a tongue in the cheek comment?
Second of all, I know what was said, and I’m not taking anything out of context more than you’re taking the innovation part of the manifesto out of context.
That was the whole point. The Manifesto is outdated on pretty much all the parts.
Third of all, the reason that people say ArenaNet lied is because personalized storyline doesn’t exist anymore. I never claimed anything otherwise. “Was” being the obvious key word here.The concept of this game isn’t innovation as a standard concept at all anyway.
The concept of the game is innovative, not because of how any individual aspect of it has been created but by how all the aspects together combine to form what is the game.
Shakespeare created only a few words. The rest of them all existed. How he put them together is why he’s remembered today.
They had lots of stuff like that in the game since launch, which then got removed from starter zones because they were confusing. (??? what)
Oh NPE… the “logical” NPE… :P
If LS3 is the future for this game I’m probably gone. It takes someone with a 4 year degree in college to play this now.
No it does not.
My wife got her a 2 yr degree in 1986 and that’s all the of the ‘degrees’ that she has. Her job title before she resigned 4 months ago was “Commissioning Engineer for Automatically Guided Vehicles”. And her previous job is calling and texting trying to still have her work both without getting paid and also trying to get her to come back into a job, any job, including doing IT. She keeps getting phone calls from head hunters to work at various other companies doing that job. And all this is with just an a 2 yr degree from 1986. What has set her apart from all those with Bachelors and Masters degrees around her is her willingness to learn – software, electrical, mechanical – whatever is needed to do whatever is asked of her on a job.
Uhm…. o-kay. TMI. O_o
I think you may have taken that a little too literally. When someone says it takes a 4 yr college degree to do something, it’s an expression that suggests something requires an unreasonable level of intelligence to accomplish, in their opinion. The speaker might have equally suggested it takes “two college degrees” or a “PhD” or “a 12-th level intellect” – all of which are figurative expressions used to make a point, and do not require a concrete rebuttal in the form of a resume. Just saying.
You’re taking the literal definition of what was said out of context. Within the context of MMOs, the personal story was personalized.
First of all, why are you explaining explicit details of a tongue in the cheek comment?
Second of all, I know what was said, and I’m not taking anything out of context more than you’re taking the innovation part of the manifesto out of context.
That was the whole point. The Manifesto is outdated on pretty much all the parts.
Third of all, the reason that people say ArenaNet lied is because personalized storyline doesn’t exist anymore. I never claimed anything otherwise. “Was” being the obvious key word here.The concept of this game isn’t innovation as a standard concept at all anyway.
The concept of the game is innovative, not because of how any individual aspect of it has been created but by how all the aspects together combine to form what is the game.
Shakespeare created only a few words. The rest of them all existed. How he put them together is why he’s remembered today.
Which is something completely different than the original argument.
Either way, what obviously I meant was that Gw2 hasn’t overhauled anything since the launch of HoT that one can complain now about too much innovation. (Or claim that that is what the game is about)
“It isn’t working!” CL4P-TP
Ingame Name: Guardian Erik
Ingame Name: Guardian Erik
(edited by FrizzFreston.5290)
Gee, I thought their original concept was to be innovative. I mean, that’s what they said even before the game launched. (It’s even in the Manifesto.)
They promised the personality choice you make during character creation to be developed further and become more important in future content, but instead it was canned.
They promised personalized content based on choices your character makes (and on race, which by now has been reduced to mere cosmetics), but instead they changed the direction into a one-way path for all that makes for flat boring story-telling and lacks replayability.
They introduced swimming and diving in GW2, but none of it is of importance anymore. It has become an abandoned child. Instead, they introduced a crazy amount of movement and traveling mechanics (with even more to come in the next expac) that have become the number 1 priority of “innovative” content now, when they are fitting in a 3D action platformer but certainly not in a RPG (which should have rich story-telling, well written character involvement and dialogue, and personal choices as its no.1 priority, not this kitten).
I believe you are mistaken. What was promised about choices was delivered. There was nothing about not innovating (changing) the way Stories functioned in the future. We have new Diving content with every Release. If you didn’t take advantage of swimming in Bitterfrost, that was your loss.
I believe you stated another game was going to be your focus; but you were only gone a week. Did it not work out for you?
Best of luck on your gaming adventures.
You’re taking the literal definition of what was said out of context. Within the context of MMOs, the personal story was personalized.
First of all, why are you explaining explicit details of a tongue in the cheek comment?
Second of all, I know what was said, and I’m not taking anything out of context more than you’re taking the innovation part of the manifesto out of context.
That was the whole point. The Manifesto is outdated on pretty much all the parts.
Third of all, the reason that people say ArenaNet lied is because personalized storyline doesn’t exist anymore. I never claimed anything otherwise. “Was” being the obvious key word here.The concept of this game isn’t innovation as a standard concept at all anyway.
The concept of the game is innovative, not because of how any individual aspect of it has been created but by how all the aspects together combine to form what is the game.
Shakespeare created only a few words. The rest of them all existed. How he put them together is why he’s remembered today.
Which is something completely different than the original argument.
Either way, what obviously I meant was that Gw2 hasn’t overhauled anything since the launch of HoT that one can complain now about too much innovation. (Or claim that that is what the game is about)
I don’t know. Launching an expansion that neither raises the level cap or introduces a new tier of gear is pretty innovative in the MMO space. The design of the HoT zones are innovative as well. Never said anything like them in an MMO.
You may not believe it’s innovative, but that’s simply an opinion. I think, like core, there more innovation in HoT than meets the eye.
Gee, I thought their original concept was to be innovative. I mean, that’s what they said even before the game launched. (It’s even in the Manifesto.)
I just think it’s funny how some people claim that the entire problem with this game is that Anet is innovating to innovate, and then other people turn around and say the game was originally innovative but now it’s just the same as other MMOs.
Sort of hard to reconcile those two complaints.
In my opinion, the truth is in the middle. Those who don’t LIKE the innovations, are going to complain they’re being done for no reason, in spite of the fact that there are people who like them.
With every change there will be people who like the old game before the change better and there will be people who like the game after the change better.
And: Anet often tries new things/ideas and there is always a risk (and it has happened in the past), that new things/ideas do not work out as expected after they are released to the players.
You’re taking the literal definition of what was said out of context. Within the context of MMOs, the personal story was personalized.
First of all, why are you explaining explicit details of a tongue in the cheek comment?
Second of all, I know what was said, and I’m not taking anything out of context more than you’re taking the innovation part of the manifesto out of context.
That was the whole point. The Manifesto is outdated on pretty much all the parts.
Third of all, the reason that people say ArenaNet lied is because personalized storyline doesn’t exist anymore. I never claimed anything otherwise. “Was” being the obvious key word here.The concept of this game isn’t innovation as a standard concept at all anyway.
The concept of the game is innovative, not because of how any individual aspect of it has been created but by how all the aspects together combine to form what is the game.
Shakespeare created only a few words. The rest of them all existed. How he put them together is why he’s remembered today.
Which is something completely different than the original argument.
Either way, what obviously I meant was that Gw2 hasn’t overhauled anything since the launch of HoT that one can complain now about too much innovation. (Or claim that that is what the game is about)
I don’t know. Launching an expansion that neither raises the level cap or introduces a new tier of gear is pretty innovative in the MMO space. The design of the HoT zones are innovative as well. Never said anything like them in an MMO.
You may not believe it’s innovative, but that’s simply an opinion. I think, like core, there more innovation in HoT than meets the eye.
How does saying since the launch of HoT not include HoT? Maybe it’s a language thing, but I thought it would be obvious that mentioning the launch of HoT as a time point of the word since does mean that it would include HoT itself.
So yeah, Masteries are fairly innovative, I agree. Sorry if I worded it so you misunderstood.
“It isn’t working!” CL4P-TP
Ingame Name: Guardian Erik
Ingame Name: Guardian Erik
You’re taking the literal definition of what was said out of context. Within the context of MMOs, the personal story was personalized.
First of all, why are you explaining explicit details of a tongue in the cheek comment?
Second of all, I know what was said, and I’m not taking anything out of context more than you’re taking the innovation part of the manifesto out of context.
That was the whole point. The Manifesto is outdated on pretty much all the parts.
Third of all, the reason that people say ArenaNet lied is because personalized storyline doesn’t exist anymore. I never claimed anything otherwise. “Was” being the obvious key word here.The concept of this game isn’t innovation as a standard concept at all anyway.
The concept of the game is innovative, not because of how any individual aspect of it has been created but by how all the aspects together combine to form what is the game.
Shakespeare created only a few words. The rest of them all existed. How he put them together is why he’s remembered today.
Which is something completely different than the original argument.
Either way, what obviously I meant was that Gw2 hasn’t overhauled anything since the launch of HoT that one can complain now about too much innovation. (Or claim that that is what the game is about)
I don’t know. Launching an expansion that neither raises the level cap or introduces a new tier of gear is pretty innovative in the MMO space. The design of the HoT zones are innovative as well. Never said anything like them in an MMO.
You may not believe it’s innovative, but that’s simply an opinion. I think, like core, there more innovation in HoT than meets the eye.
How does saying since the launch of HoT not include HoT? Maybe it’s a language thing, but I thought it would be obvious that mentioning the launch of HoT as a time point of the word since does mean that it would include HoT itself.
So yeah, Masteries are fairly innovative, I agree. Sorry if I worded it so you misunderstood.
Oh I get it. Then you’re saying that after the game was out for three years, they were innovative again two years ago, during which time they’re making another expansion which may or may not have innovation in it.
Of course, they’ve had several things between the expansions which some may consider innovative as well. No company is going to be innovative every two weeks, because every time you come up with something, you’ve got to take the time to develop it would could take months or even years. So if the last expansion was innovative, and we’re getting another expansion two years later and it’s innovative, or if there’s innovative stuff in it, then the game remains innovative.
Even then, I believe there’s innovative stuff even in some of the fights between the expansions or some of the fractals.
So yes, I don’t agree Anet is not innovating, even now.
It’s funny. ANet tried some really visionary things for an MMO closer to the start of the game. Things like no levels, easy acquisition of BiS stats, and a near-universal reward currency, with RNG playing little role beyond getting Precursors. The MMO fan base said no to all of that, either directly, or by taking actions which were bad for the health of the game.
As to the “recycled” comment. Yeah, what the heck do you mean by that?
I dont know how you can say that.
Literally its like 50/50 from the people i know.
Many of us loved the LW with the dungeons, World Events and so on. Like the destruction of kessex hills and LA were amazing.
Then you have the other 50% who said " look what i missed out on, thats not fair" and voiced complaints.
Anet probably saw the issue of time. They spend time to create events where people might or might not have time to play it. They have gone very traditional with how this MMO is.
I mean Guild halls are a grind, unlocking new specs are kind of a grind. I mean in GW1 you had to do story, events to unlock skills. Ok that made sense, HOT you really just pick a path to learn and gather XP.
Dont know how you could comment on health of the game from the LS differences. heck PvP and WvW have been on life support for the past 2 years.
WvW has never been on “life support”. It certainly has less players than it did years ago, but that doesn’t equate to life support.
More to the point, it doesn’t matter what 50% of the people anyone knows says, because it’s too small a sampling to be meaningful.
But saying this game has gone traditional when it had an expansion that neither raised the level cap or added a new tier of gear is a bit disingenuous.
Did they add raids? Sure they did. But the raids are still different from raids in most games I’ve played.
I’ve played a LOT of MMOs and this game isn’t anything like most of them…in my opinion anyway.
Ok lets just take it from a real perspective then and not take into account who said what and what nows.
Gw2 WvW players were wanting unique items, some upgrades and different things when HOT came out. The WvW community didnt like it and servers died.
I am on Crystal Desert and before HOT we would fill the servers out by ourselves on Friday night. Before the big WvW patch and now a few weeks after it, 3 servers combined sometimes fills up a border land.
The PvP scene has been dying since the release of HOT with some of the worst metas any game probably has ever seen. Just recently the best team from NA was perma banned from the PvP scene. As well as former PvP players who left the game for months came back for 1 week to win the EU monthly tournament because there is no new blood coming into the scene.
That aside we were talking innovative, Anet said they would not have you go into a cave and collect 10 wings. With the recent map releases that had you repeat 4 hearts each day to make a back piece. The LIVING STORYS are instance like many old time dungeons.
Lets just be frank, the introduction of mounts is not innovative, the way you uprade them yes. The specs and upgrading them yes even though it was very GW1 like. So yes Anet has hit marks with some of hits world events.
But please dont talk as if PvP and WvW didnt hit serious low points because of HOT. At 1 point in WvW my server was combined with 3 other servers. Thats 4 servers on 4 maps and we couldnt fill them.
PvP is literally filled with Alt accounts by the masses of the ESL level players who are near the point of done. You can check there discord chats as well as the fact that hardcore players like helseth are playing other games seriously instead of GW2.
It’s funny. ANet tried some really visionary things for an MMO closer to the start of the game. Things like no levels, easy acquisition of BiS stats, and a near-universal reward currency, with RNG playing little role beyond getting Precursors. The MMO fan base said no to all of that, either directly, or by taking actions which were bad for the health of the game.
As to the “recycled” comment. Yeah, what the heck do you mean by that?
I dont know how you can say that.
Literally its like 50/50 from the people i know.
Many of us loved the LW with the dungeons, World Events and so on. Like the destruction of kessex hills and LA were amazing.
Then you have the other 50% who said " look what i missed out on, thats not fair" and voiced complaints.
Anet probably saw the issue of time. They spend time to create events where people might or might not have time to play it. They have gone very traditional with how this MMO is.
I mean Guild halls are a grind, unlocking new specs are kind of a grind. I mean in GW1 you had to do story, events to unlock skills. Ok that made sense, HOT you really just pick a path to learn and gather XP.
Dont know how you could comment on health of the game from the LS differences. heck PvP and WvW have been on life support for the past 2 years.
WvW has never been on “life support”. It certainly has less players than it did years ago, but that doesn’t equate to life support.
More to the point, it doesn’t matter what 50% of the people anyone knows says, because it’s too small a sampling to be meaningful.
But saying this game has gone traditional when it had an expansion that neither raised the level cap or added a new tier of gear is a bit disingenuous.
Did they add raids? Sure they did. But the raids are still different from raids in most games I’ve played.
I’ve played a LOT of MMOs and this game isn’t anything like most of them…in my opinion anyway.
Ok lets just take it from a real perspective then and not take into account who said what and what nows.
Gw2 WvW players were wanting unique items, some upgrades and different things when HOT came out. The WvW community didnt like it and servers died.
I am on Crystal Desert and before HOT we would fill the servers out by ourselves on Friday night. Before the big WvW patch and now a few weeks after it, 3 servers combined sometimes fills up a border land.
The PvP scene has been dying since the release of HOT with some of the worst metas any game probably has ever seen. Just recently the best team from NA was perma banned from the PvP scene. As well as former PvP players who left the game for months came back for 1 week to win the EU monthly tournament because there is no new blood coming into the scene.
That aside we were talking innovative, Anet said they would not have you go into a cave and collect 10 wings. With the recent map releases that had you repeat 4 hearts each day to make a back piece. The LIVING STORYS are instance like many old time dungeons.
Lets just be frank, the introduction of mounts is not innovative, the way you uprade them yes. The specs and upgrading them yes even though it was very GW1 like. So yes Anet has hit marks with some of hits world events.
But please dont talk as if PvP and WvW didnt hit serious low points because of HOT. At 1 point in WvW my server was combined with 3 other servers. Thats 4 servers on 4 maps and we couldnt fill them.
PvP is literally filled with Alt accounts by the masses of the ESL level players who are near the point of done. You can check there discord chats as well as the fact that hardcore players like helseth are playing other games seriously instead of GW2.
I’m not talking about WvW or PvP. I seldom do. However, I think you’ll find most of this playerbase has been PvE since launch, by a large margin. Polls seem to back that up anyway.
So yes, if you are one of the players who ONLY WvW and PvP, then maybe, just maybe you don’t find this game innovative and you don’t like the expansions.
But the game itself has been since launch, focused on PvE where is where the bulk of the innovation is found.
I personally wouldn’t be concerned if both PvP and WvW were removed from the game completely. It wouldn’t affect me negatively at all. But since the bulk of the expansion coming out is PvE (WvW and PvP weren’t really mentioned even), I’ll continue to say this game is innovative
And even then PvP in most MMOs requires grinding PvE to get leveled up. Structured PvP here is quite unusual in MMO space.
Oh I get it. Then you’re saying that after the game was out for three years, they were innovative again two years ago, during which time they’re making another expansion which may or may not have innovation in it.
Of course, they’ve had several things between the expansions which some may consider innovative as well. No company is going to be innovative every two weeks, because every time you come up with something, you’ve got to take the time to develop it would could take months or even years. So if the last expansion was innovative, and we’re getting another expansion two years later and it’s innovative, or if there’s innovative stuff in it, then the game remains innovative.
Even then, I believe there’s innovative stuff even in some of the fights between the expansions or some of the fractals.
So yes, I don’t agree Anet is not innovating, even now.
I never said they aren’t innovating at all, I said (or meant to say) that the concept of the game is about innovating is more of a natural thing rather than something special that was barely mentioned in the manifesto. At least lately.
They have been more conservative and holding back much of the innovation, rather than releasing it, if you believe Mike O’s words recently anyway. They aren’t doing big overhauls anymore like they did before HoT. Innovation is taking a step back for innovation when it is much more logical to innovate.
Exactly why i would say the whole argument that a game is in concept about innovation is not true anymore. Which game doesn’t bring out updates which innovates their own design? What is making Guild Wars 2 special is their original concept, not that they said that they want to bring new experiences. I can’t see many game developers saying. Oh yeah, we will be adding “more of the same”. GW2 is all about innovation? Ehh not that much at the moment. And I’m fairly glad it isn’t.
It used to be that they changed things alot more, recently they have began settling on a certain structure and been building on that, rather than reiterating on that structure.
And ofcourse, the game remains unique (not innovating), but it hasn’t really been changing all that much, if not adding things to the game that have been proven before to be popular.. like raids and mounts and some smaller gadgets that don’t impact the game in a big way. People claiming that Guild Wars 2 is becoming more run of the mill, forget ofcourse that this is a system build on GW2 foundation. Not on original MMO foundation. So GW2 will never be a traditional MMO even with parts that are also in other MMOs.
“It isn’t working!” CL4P-TP
Ingame Name: Guardian Erik
Ingame Name: Guardian Erik
(edited by FrizzFreston.5290)
Oh I get it. Then you’re saying that after the game was out for three years, they were innovative again two years ago, during which time they’re making another expansion which may or may not have innovation in it.
Of course, they’ve had several things between the expansions which some may consider innovative as well. No company is going to be innovative every two weeks, because every time you come up with something, you’ve got to take the time to develop it would could take months or even years. So if the last expansion was innovative, and we’re getting another expansion two years later and it’s innovative, or if there’s innovative stuff in it, then the game remains innovative.
Even then, I believe there’s innovative stuff even in some of the fights between the expansions or some of the fractals.
So yes, I don’t agree Anet is not innovating, even now.
I never said they aren’t innovating at all, I said (or meant to say) that the concept of the game is about innovating is more of a natural thing rather than something special that was barely mentioned in the manifesto. At least lately.
They have been more conservative and holding back much of the innovation, rather than releasing it, if you believe Mike O’s words recently anyway. They aren’t doing big overhauls anymore like they did before HoT. Innovation is taking a step back for innovation when it is much more logical to innovate.
Exactly why i would say the whole argument that a game is in concept about innovation is not true anymore. Which game doesn’t bring out updates which innovates their own design? What is making Guild Wars 2 special is their original concept, not that they said that they want to bring new experiences. I can’t see many game developers saying. Oh yeah, we will be adding “more of the same”. GW2 is all about innovation? Ehh not that much at the moment. And I’m fairly glad it isn’t.
It used to be that they changed things alot more, recently they have began settling on a certain structure and been building on that, rather than reiterating on that structure.
And ofcourse, the game remains unique (not innovating), but it hasn’t really been changing all that much, if not adding things to the game that have been proven before to be popular.. like raids and mounts and some smaller gadgets that don’t impact the game in a big way. People claiming that Guild Wars 2 is becoming more run of the mill, forget ofcourse that this is a system build on GW2 foundation. Not on original MMO foundation. So GW2 will never be a traditional MMO even with parts that are also in other MMOs.
I think you’re misinterpreting MO’s words. The problems that existed in this game pre-hot were supposed to be fixed by the changes made when HoT was released.
End game progression after level 80 was a major issue in this game. A lot of people get to 80, don’t know what to do and leave. Enter elite specs and masteries, one character bound and one account bound.
The idea was to add the stuff that was missing with HOT and then build on those systems, not to keep coming out with new systems.
This isn’t being more cautious, nor is it not innovating. HoT was the skeleton on which to build. You can still build creatively on that skeleton.
No, I’m sorry, I have to disagree with your assessment.
No, I’m sorry, I have to disagree with your assessment.
I don’t think you understand it anyway. So yeah it’s pointless to continue to discuss it.
“It isn’t working!” CL4P-TP
Ingame Name: Guardian Erik
Ingame Name: Guardian Erik
No, I’m sorry, I have to disagree with your assessment.
I don’t think you understand it anyway. So yeah it’s pointless to continue to discuss it.
I understand you’re saying they’re not innovating as much and I disagree. Whatever your reasons,. my own observations don’t support the argument to begin with. You’re right, not much point in going further.
I suppose it depends on perspective. You can both observe the same thing but see it differently because youre looking at it from a different side.
“It isn’t working!” CL4P-TP
Ingame Name: Guardian Erik
Ingame Name: Guardian Erik
I suppose it depends on perspective. You can both observe the same thing but see it differently because youre looking at it from a different side.
This is why you don’t debate anything on the official forums. The devs only release announcements here but their AMA’s and community discussions are on Reddit where things can be upvoted and downvoted. You get a much better grasp of the community.
People have perspectives on different things but the pendulum doesn’t swing here.