Guild Wars 2

Cormac.3871:

stof.9341:

Entitlement is very close to something we like to call “customer rights”.

You are entitled to get what you paid for. If you haven’t paid for it you aren’t entitled to it. If someone charges too much for something you are entitled to be disappointed, or to take you business elsewhere, but you are not entitled to make them lower it.

I am disappointed with the price. I have not decided if I will go elsewhere, although I will probably stop buying gems for a while if I do get the expansion. I also think that a lot of what has been written reeks of entitlement.

Consumer rights include stuff like : the right of the consumers complaints to be heard, the rights to be informed regarding the price,quality,quantity,etc.,regarding the products and that we should be provided wide variety of goods to choose from.

ANet fails rather kitten those three points here, well until they respond to our complaints :p

And there’s another one about the right of redress which concerns the recent buyers from the core game that would never have bought it if they knew the HoT preorder was around the corner and such a good deal for people that didn’t own the core game yet. And their right is to get a good redress regarding that complaint.

stof.9341:

Cormac.3871:

stof.9341:

Entitlement is very close to something we like to call “customer rights”.

You are entitled to get what you paid for. If you haven’t paid for it you aren’t entitled to it. If someone charges too much for something you are entitled to be disappointed, or to take you business elsewhere, but you are not entitled to make them lower it.

I am disappointed with the price. I have not decided if I will go elsewhere, although I will probably stop buying gems for a while if I do get the expansion. I also think that a lot of what has been written reeks of entitlement.

Consumer rights include stuff like : the right of the consumers complaints to be heard, the rights to be informed regarding the price,quality,quantity,etc.,regarding the products and that we should be provided wide variety of goods to choose from.

ANet fails rather kitten those three points here, well until they respond to our complaints :p

And there’s another one about the right of redress which concerns the recent buyers from the core game that would never have bought it if they knew the HoT preorder was around the corner and such a good deal for people that didn’t own the core game yet. And their right is to get a good redress regarding that complaint.

The right of redress I agree with. I have even stated elsewhere that I believe that in some jurisdictions they might be in danger of getting fined.

But again I say consumer rights do not come in to play until you buy the product. i could be wrong, but I don’t believe that there is anywhere that protects consumers for a product that they haven’t bought. Google it and let me know if you find anything.

I’m just gonna grab my popcorn and watch this play out from now on …

Make sure that you get a lid with that popcorn. Because the kittenstorm is just getting started. When gaming websites and youtube journalists start covering this, the amount of poop coming down from the sky could easily ruin your snack.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Make sure that you get a lid with that popcorn. Because the kittenstorm is just getting started. When gaming websites and youtube journalists start covering this, the amount of poop coming down from the sky could easily ruin your snack.

No, not my popcorn!

Cormac.3871:

The right of redress I agree with. I have even stated elsewhere that I believe that in some jurisdictions they might be in danger of getting fined.

But again I say consumer rights do not come in to play until you buy the product. i could be wrong, but I don’t believe that there is anywhere that protects consumers for a product that they haven’t bought. Google it and let me know if you find anything.

You might have skimmed on my post the part about “the rights to be informed regarding the price,quality,quantity,etc.,regarding the products” which do come into effect BEFORE you buy the product for a reason.

New players will pay $50 for HoT and get everything readily playable.

As a veteran with no free char slots, I will have to pay $60 for HoT to play all its core features (i.e. the new class) because $50 won’t give me that extra char slot to play one of HoT’s new central features; the Revenant.

Asking to pay the same as new players to be able to readily play HoT, is that entitlement of a veteran player?

As before;
* I have NO issues with the price tag of $50 for the expansion and its content’s worth
* I have NO issues with new players getting the core game for free – in fact I applaud the generosity and hope it will bring many new players to the game.
* I am saddened that I cannot get the expansion for $50 and play it without having to delete one of my long-established chars – or dish out money (either $10 in cash or grinding out $10’s worth of in-game gold). New players don’t have to do that, why am I forced to?

Grimm… a gaming developers dream fan.

Grimm.2685:

I just wanted to take some time to say thank you for the all of the time and content that I have been able to enjoy in both Guild Wars 1 & Guild Wars 2.

I look forward to participating in the upcoming beta events for Heart of Thorns, as well as playing with those who work to gain enough personal XP to over come these illusions of perceived entitlement and pricing injustices, so that they can truly enjoy the game.

Going to agree. Thank you anet for the strides you have taken to making and even improving the guild wars franchise. I can’t wait for dinosaurs…even if they do trample over my corpse a few times.

Cormac.3871:

But again I say consumer rights do not come in to play until you buy the product. i could be wrong, but I don’t believe that there is anywhere that protects consumers for a product that they haven’t bought. Google it and let me know if you find anything.

I have bought GW2 and HoT will directly affect that product and my experience.

Shadelang.3012:

Grimm.2685:

I just wanted to take some time to say thank you for the all of the time and content that I have been able to enjoy in both Guild Wars 1 & Guild Wars 2.

I look forward to participating in the upcoming beta events for Heart of Thorns, as well as playing with those who work to gain enough personal XP to over come these illusions of perceived entitlement and pricing injustices, so that they can truly enjoy the game.

Going to agree. Thank you anet for the strides you have taken to making and even improving the guild wars franchise. I can’t wait for dinosaurs…even if they do trample over my corpse a few times.

did you get a bone treat yet?

The funny part about this thread is.. all these people are going to comeback crying and whining about the HoT lack of content and how they paid $50 for it. lulz

No, I think the funniest thing about this is that if someone doesnt have an argument they pull something like Quaniesan, yet people are wanting a character slot. Which actually makes you look like the person wanting a treat… lol.

Grimm.2685:

I just wanted to take some time to say thank you for the all of the time and content that I have been able to enjoy in both Guild Wars 1 & Guild Wars 2.

I look forward to participating in the upcoming beta events for Heart of Thorns, as well as playing with those who work to gain enough personal XP to over come these illusions of perceived entitlement and pricing injustices, so that they can truly enjoy the game.

I just wanted to take some time to thank you for kicking those who are down already and for posting an obvious flame bait thread in an explosive and gunpowder filled atmosphere. Your kind of fake honesty and barely masked insults is everything this community needs.

You Sir, are AWESOME.

csebal.5936:

Grimm.2685:

I just wanted to take some time to say thank you for the all of the time and content that I have been able to enjoy in both Guild Wars 1 & Guild Wars 2.

I look forward to participating in the upcoming beta events for Heart of Thorns, as well as playing with those who work to gain enough personal XP to over come these illusions of perceived entitlement and pricing injustices, so that they can truly enjoy the game.

I just wanted to take some time to thank you for kicking those who are down already and for posting an obvious flame bait thread in an explosive and gunpowder filled atmosphere. Your kind of fake honesty and barely masked insults is everything this community needs.

You Sir, are AWESOME.

Interesting how a simple try to show ArenaNet that not everyone in the forum is part of the blind rage-roflstomp-blob is taken as a provocation.
What is wrong about showing a good opinion as well?

Grimm.2685:

I just wanted to take some time to say thank you for the all of the time and content that I have been able to enjoy in both Guild Wars 1 & Guild Wars 2.

I look forward to participating in the upcoming beta events for Heart of Thorns, as well as playing with those who work to gain enough personal XP to over come these illusions of perceived entitlement and pricing injustices, so that they can truly enjoy the game.

Agreed, though I thought entitlement would be a new player getting a FREE base game that I’m paying for via an expansion. Websters must have changed the meaning of paying for A + B and only getting B because you already paid for A as an entitlement.

Public education these days.

Entenkommando.5208:

Interesting how a simple try to show ArenaNet that not everyone in the forum is part of the blind rage-roflstomp-blob is taken as a provocation.
What is wrong about showing a good opinion as well?

Maybe you are not familiar with the language enough to understand subtext and implied messages. The first paragraph of that post was okay-ish.. unneeded in the current climate IMO, but not offensive in any way. The second part, with the suggestion of people not being mature enough (personal XP reference) to accept the pricing and circumstances was a poorly masked insult and a kick out to everyone who thinks differently than the OP.

I myself have my opinion on the matter, but that’s besides the point. Nobody should feel “entitled” to insult others just because they think otherwise.

That’s no offense imo.
That’s exactly what is going to happen.

You will get over it because you will enjoy the game.

olTThreelo.6710:

Grimm… a gaming marketing dream fan.

Fixed that for you.

MMOGamer.6175:

Agreed, though I thought entitlement would be a new player getting a FREE base game that I’m paying for via an expansion. Websters must have changed the meaning of paying for A + B and only getting B because you already paid for A as an entitlement.
Public education these days.

They doesn’t get the sense of the word they use or grasp the situation.

Biobasher.2619:

No, I think the funniest thing about this is that if someone doesnt have an argument they pull something like Quaniesan, yet people are wanting a character slot. Which actually makes you look like the person wanting a treat… lol.

A non-argument, like a-kissing, don’t need a counter-argument, it needs a satire. A character slot is a treat? no, that should already paid for in the $50. No one asking for “free stuff”. It’s the tail-wagging for Anet is what make you look like someone wanting a chicken jerky treat so bad. Speaking of “funniest thing”, look in the mirror.

RabbitUp.8294:

Cormac.3871:

But again I say consumer rights do not come in to play until you buy the product. i could be wrong, but I don’t believe that there is anywhere that protects consumers for a product that they haven’t bought. Google it and let me know if you find anything.

I have bought GW2 and HoT will directly affect that product and my experience.

Ummm, by giving you more features? Are you arguing that every time an MMO creates an expansion that you think is too high (and bare in mind that even though it is at the higher end of the market, it still in the range of what other expansions for MMOs cost) you are entitled to some sort of refund? If you do I give up, you obviously have no grip on reality.

stof.9341:

Cormac.3871:

The right of redress I agree with. I have even stated elsewhere that I believe that in some jurisdictions they might be in danger of getting fined.

But again I say consumer rights do not come in to play until you buy the product. i could be wrong, but I don’t believe that there is anywhere that protects consumers for a product that they haven’t bought. Google it and let me know if you find anything.

You might have skimmed on my post the part about “the rights to be informed regarding the price,quality,quantity,etc.,regarding the products” which do come into effect BEFORE you buy the product for a reason.

So your argument is that prepurchase offers break consumer law until all details of a game have been released?

I never talked about “consumer law”.

Cormac.3871:

Ummm, by giving you more features? Are you arguing that every time an MMO creates an expansion that you think is too high (and bare in mind that even though it is at the higher end of the market, it still in the range of what other expansions for MMOs cost) you are entitled to some sort of refund? If you do I give up, you obviously have no grip on reality.

Did you see me ask for a refund?

The core game is affected balance-wise by the introduction of new gameplay features locked behind a paywall, and a failed expansion pre-purchase launch and PR disaster will affect the community, the company’s image and ultimately, the longevity of the game.

So, yes, I have the right to provide consumer feedback, both for a product that I already own and is affected, as well as a new product Anet is trying to sell to me.

This whole thing is rather fascinating. Never have I ever seen fans of a game cape so hard that they’d throw $50 at a game with no release date, and then hide that kind of blind faith behind calling OTHER people entitled.

ERs all over the globe should be reporting dislocated shoulders en masse, because the reach required for this is medically amazing.

RabbitUp.8294:

Cormac.3871:

Ummm, by giving you more features? Are you arguing that every time an MMO creates an expansion that you think is too high (and bare in mind that even though it is at the higher end of the market, it still in the range of what other expansions for MMOs cost) you are entitled to some sort of refund? If you do I give up, you obviously have no grip on reality.

Did you see me ask for a refund?

The core game is affected balance-wise by the introduction of new gameplay features locked behind a paywall, and a failed expansion pre-purchase launch and PR disaster will affect the community, the company’s image and ultimately, the longevity of the game.

So, yes, I have the right to provide consumer feedback, both for a product that I already own and is affected, as well as a new product Anet is trying to sell to me.

And did you see me arguing against your right to provide feedback? I was responding to a question with regard to legal rights, not subjective moral rights. Nice bit of backtracking though.

Cormac.3871:

And did you see me arguing against your right to provide feedback?

Yeah

stof.9341:

Consumer rights include stuff like : the right of the consumers complaints to be heard, the rights to be informed regarding the price,quality,quantity,etc.,regarding the products and that we should be provided wide variety of goods to choose from.

Cormac.3871:

But again I say consumer rights do not come in to play until you buy the product. i could be wrong, but I don’t believe that there is anywhere that protects consumers for a product that they haven’t bought. Google it and let me know if you find anything.

RabbitUp.8294:

Cormac.3871:

And did you see me arguing against your right to provide feedback?

Yeah

stof.9341:

Consumer rights include stuff like : the right of the consumers complaints to be heard, the rights to be informed regarding the price,quality,quantity,etc.,regarding the products and that we should be provided wide variety of goods to choose from.

Cormac.3871:

But again I say consumer rights do not come in to play until you buy the product. i could be wrong, but I don’t believe that there is anywhere that protects consumers for a product that they haven’t bought. Google it and let me know if you find anything.

Really? Oh for crying out loud, what a stupid response. This is in the context of consumer law, not moral rights.

Cormac.3871:

Really? Oh for crying out loud, what a stupid response. This is in the context of consumer law, not moral rights.

Did I mention moral rights? You keep putting words in my mouth. For someone that calls others stupid, you don’t seem capable of comprehending simple text.

You said consumer rights don’t apply to a product one hasn’t bought. Besides the fact that this is false, what I said was that since another product that I did buy is affected by the launch of HoT, my rights are still affected either way. My legal rights, as a consumer.

RabbitUp.8294:

Cormac.3871:

Really? Oh for crying out loud, what a stupid response. This is in the context of consumer law, not moral rights.

Did I mention moral rights? You keep putting words in my mouth. For someone that calls others stupid, you don’t seem capable of comprehending simple text.

You said consumer rights don’t apply to a product one hasn’t bought. Besides the fact that this is false, what I said was that since another product that I did buy is affected by the launch of HoT, my rights are still affected either way. My legal rights, as a consumer.

I said your response was stupid, not you. I don’t have enough information to tell if this is a consistent pattern of behaviour.

We all do stupid things now and then. I may be being stupid when I think that the right to respond is not codified in consumer law. It may be specifically protected (in consumer law that is, not something overarching like constitutional law), if so show me a citation and I will concede. Either way, it should have been clear that this was the assumption I was working from. As far as I know nobody’s right to respond has been infringed, so that is a bit of a red herring I think.

I already conceded the right to be disappointed, I took it as read that you have the right to complain, but I don’t believe that there is the legal right to anything else, except for those who bought when the FAQ stated that you would need the base game to play the expansion.

If you disagree with any of this let me know. I think maybe we fell into the trap of arguing to win rather than to get to a better understanding.