Guild Wars 2

I think that most of everything will be locked behind the expansion. The Revenant is going to be locked, Guild Halls will probably be locked to the members who’ve purchased the expansion, and you will probably only be allowed to allocate mastery points if you have the expansion. Specializations might be locked, but I don’t think the WvW map will be locked. IMO if the point of an expansion is to expand the game, most of the actual content will be in the expansion. I don’t know why it is a divisive issue over what’s fair to lock behind the expansion.

Morsus.5106:

IMO if the point of an expansion is to expand the game, most of the actual content will be in the expansion. I don’t know why it is a divisive issue over what’s fair to lock behind the expansion.

I don’t get it, either. In my mind, as long as it doesn’t lock people out of the base game, WvW and perhaps PvP being the main modes at risk here then by all rights, it should be locked.

Though guild halls being locked out for non-payers despite the guild leader having the expansion could risk the integrity of the guild system.

I expect that, to fully enjoy the game, players will need to buy the expansion. That only makes sense.

The one exception I can see to this is the new WvW map. It would probably be detrimental to alot of the smaller servers if, suddenly, a percentage of their population (however small) was locked off from helping out.

Other than that, however, I expect every feature they listed to be exclusive to those buying the expansion (including masteries in old zones).

Just my thoughts though.

BrotherBelial.3094:

Every expansion ever has locked content behind a “pay wall”. And if you’ve played Guild Wars since GW1, you know the answer to all of your questions. As for driving players away, a big world full of nope. Everyone in my guild and that I’ve talked to ingame have said they are buying it and can’t wait for it. I my self want to know why I can’t buy it yet. I’ve played Guild Wars since Open Beta of Guild Wars 1. Have I liked every little thing ANet have done? Nope. But I have enjoyed every hour that I’ve spent in their the game. And to show that I’ve probably spent a lot since launch of GW2 on gems. I can’t give you a figure, as I’ve not kept track. But it’s probably about the same as you’ve spent. Possibly a lot more.

While i see where you are coming from i have to point out that the way GW and its subsequent expansions (which were full on games of their own which could stand and be played independent of the other titles) were delivered allowed them to have their content completely segregated from the other games. Each delivered their own new content while incorporating the lore and base classes of the primary game.

Conversely we’ve already been told that this expansion to the game (although getting both a digital and physical distro) requires the base game to be owned meaning it is tacking on additional content to the existing game and not delivering a completely encapsulated new experience. To that end, they are launching certain things like the Guild Halls and WvW map, and to a lesser degree the mastery system that would either HAVE to bleed in some way into the game for people that don’t have the expansion or risk splintering their player base.

I am not adverse to paying for an expansion, but what i am adverse to is limited communication about the release before the beta, in part because of the horrendous job Anet has done over just the past year of communicating big changes to core systems in the game which adversely affected their bottom line already. The numbers are there. I’m fully aware that certain things will definitely be locked out and should be. Specializations are basically new classes and need to be locked out, however are they only being allowed in PvE or are they considering the possible* game balance issues that might arise in PvP and WvW if those classes are allowed in those game modes? They’ve already hinted that Mastery will tie in with their updated idea for traits and if so, how will that affect players that don’t want to or can’t buy the expansion? If getting Halls are to be locked behind the expansion (which i understand and ultimately am fine with) can they confirm that those without the xpac can use them if they are in a guild that has one or are they SOL about getting into the Hall until they too buy the xpac?

I’d really like someone to explain to me why asking these questions of Anet and hoping for an actual answer outside of a PR announcement amounts to “wanting something for nothing?”

I think goldnuggets conned y’all ><

PookieDaWombat.6209:

[snip]
I am not adverse to paying for an expansion, but what i am adverse to is limited communication about the release before the beta, in part because of the horrendous job Anet has done over just the past year of communicating big changes to core systems in the game which adversely affected their bottom line already. [snip]

I’d really like someone to explain to me why asking these questions of Anet and hoping for an actual answer outside of a PR announcement amounts to “wanting something for nothing?”

They’ve said they will give us more info in early February, thus this week or next. PAX is not until March, thus after this week or next. Beta is after that.

Thus they have promised to give us information before beta, exactly as you are asking.

Not that we must have that in order for beta to be effective; they’ll be using beta to refine systems and correct errors based on player feedback. This should be more effective than feedback based on blog posts, as we need to see how things actually work in game in order to give meaningful criticism (with some exceptions in non-complex things like the commander tag issue).

As to what will be locked out vs. what will not, I speculate that WvW’s new map will not be locked, guild members getting into a guild hall will not be locked, and the mastery system will not be locked.

I base this latter on the promise that mastery points will be found in the old zones, and that it is an intended new core mechanic to the game.

PookieDaWombat.6209:

BrotherBelial.3094:

Every expansion ever has locked content behind a “pay wall”. And if you’ve played Guild Wars since GW1, you know the answer to all of your questions. As for driving players away, a big world full of nope. Everyone in my guild and that I’ve talked to ingame have said they are buying it and can’t wait for it. I my self want to know why I can’t buy it yet. I’ve played Guild Wars since Open Beta of Guild Wars 1. Have I liked every little thing ANet have done? Nope. But I have enjoyed every hour that I’ve spent in their the game. And to show that I’ve probably spent a lot since launch of GW2 on gems. I can’t give you a figure, as I’ve not kept track. But it’s probably about the same as you’ve spent. Possibly a lot more.

While i see where you are coming from i have to point out that the way GW and its subsequent expansions (which were full on games of their own which could stand and be played independent of the other titles) were delivered allowed them to have their content completely segregated from the other games. Each delivered their own new content while incorporating the lore and base classes of the primary game.

Conversely we’ve already been told that this expansion to the game (although getting both a digital and physical distro) requires the base game to be owned meaning it is tacking on additional content to the existing game and not delivering a completely encapsulated new experience. To that end, they are launching certain things like the Guild Halls and WvW map, and to a lesser degree the mastery system that would either HAVE to bleed in some way into the game for people that don’t have the expansion or risk splintering their player base.

I am not adverse to paying for an expansion, but what i am adverse to is limited communication about the release before the beta, in part because of the horrendous job Anet has done over just the past year of communicating big changes to core systems in the game which adversely affected their bottom line already. The numbers are there. I’m fully aware that certain things will definitely be locked out and should be. Specializations are basically new classes and need to be locked out, however are they only being allowed in PvE or are they considering the possible* game balance issues that might arise in PvP and WvW if those classes are allowed in those game modes? They’ve already hinted that Mastery will tie in with their updated idea for traits and if so, how will that affect players that don’t want to or can’t buy the expansion? If getting Halls are to be locked behind the expansion (which i understand and ultimately am fine with) can they confirm that those without the xpac can use them if they are in a guild that has one or are they SOL about getting into the Hall until they too buy the xpac?

I’d really like someone to explain to me why asking these questions of Anet and hoping for an actual answer outside of a PR announcement amounts to “wanting something for nothing?”

They can lock out the wvw borderland if they want to. It’s not like the other 4 wvw maps will be empty. I would thing the guild halls would work like the LS. If you don’t own the expansion you must be in a party to enter the guild hall. Look at Eye of the North. People who didn’t buy it didn’t get access to any of the skills from there. Would that leave people behind? Probably, I remember Ursan runs of FoW and UW, and how you had to be slayer level X to join the party. But then I’m in the camp of, if you don’t want to miss out. Get the expansion. If you’re not fussed then don’t. But I don’t see why these questions need asking. Buy it have the stuff. Don’t buy it you don’t get it. The only people who care about these kinds of questions are people who don’t want to pay for the expansion if they don’t have too. If your a PvP or wvw player and do not care about the PVE side of things. Then getting the wvw and PVP stuff with out buy the expansion will lose ANet sales. How many I couldn’t say. But even if it was just one. That’s lost income. Even in GW1. The games linked together. So if you wanted to play new stuff you have to pay. New guild halls/ challenge missions/ PvP types. All had to be payed for. Why would this change now?

@Donari: While i do hope the info they give will be comprehensive, my greater worry is that it won’t be and people might actually want more info before putting money towards the beta and beyond (especially on those features like the WvW map and Mastery system) which may bleed into/affect the core game whether you have the xpac or not.

Also, with this week half over, i don’t see them mentioning anything until maybe next week, and I just don’t think they are ready to speak on it even then. I think the earliest we might hear anything from them is after any feedback they get at PAX.

Actually they have mentioned something concrete today. Maps with phases a’la SW, Outposts, Adventures.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/journey-into-the-heart-of-maguuma-in-guild-wars-2-heart-of-thorns/

Stuff like masteries and the new PvE zones, those will obviously be completely locked for players who don’t have the expansion. Expansion zones are pretty much always locked to the expansion itself, and masteries seem specific to the Maguuma Jungle specifically, so obviously if you can’t get into the jungle you can’t use the masteries there either. MAYBE they’ll make precursor crafting game-wide, since that one seems the least tied to the Jungle and its been an extremely requested feature, but I have doubts even of that. I suppose perhaps they could make crafting the old precursors a generic “mastery” that could be gotten anywhere, while keeping the new legendaries Jungle mastery specific.

The specialization system itself will probably NOT be locked to expansion players technically, as I assume that’s a core system change. However, the specific specializations which HoT introduces will probably be expansion locked. So while, in theory, all players will have access to the specialization system, only the people with HoT will actually have access to the specializations introduced there, and since there’s only going to be 1 at launch, it will be sort of “pseudo-expansionlocked”. However, if there are other specializations introduced at a later time via Living Story or whatever, I imagine those would be available to non-expansion buyers.

As for guild halls and WvW… that indeed is the biggest question. They are being introduced specifically in the expansion, so that implies that they’d be expansion content, however there are obvious potential issues with how exactly that would work.

WvW being a game-wide and server-wide thing combined with talk of map “rotations”, it would be pretty strange to restrict anyone from using those maps. You’d be cutting off WvW from certain people for certain periods of time, which would kind of step on the toes of the whole “server wide contributions” it has going on.

For Guild Halls, its more a question of how exactly you’d even handle the whole situation if they are indeed expansion-specific. If a guild leader doesn’t have the expansion, does that mean the whole guild can’t have a hall? If the guild has a hall but individuals don’t have the expansion, can they simply not contribute to the growth of the hall but can still enter, or are they barred from entering completely? If the latter, then that’s going to create some big problems for guilds that want to use the halls for strategy meetings and such.

I do recall some vague mentioning that guild halls might be specifically built in the Maguuma Jungle and not anywhere else, which I suppose would cinch how the guild hall system would work in terms of people who don’t have the expansion (if you can’t get into the zone, you can’t build a hall) but I don’t know if that was speculation on the part of whoever said it or actual confirmed info.

Donari.5237:

Actually they have mentioned something concrete today. Maps with phases a’la SW, Outposts, Adventures.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/journey-into-the-heart-of-maguuma-in-guild-wars-2-heart-of-thorns/

I just read it, and while it sounds exciting to have more maps like SW (which I’ve enjoyed while there) I’m hoping their promise of more detailed info is actually that. Once again, i’m just going off of the info they’ve given in the past about prior changes to the game that fell short of what was actually delivered.

BrotherBelial.3094:

They can lock out the wvw borderland if they want to. It’s not like the other 4 wvw maps will be empty. I would thing the guild halls would work like the LS. If you don’t own the expansion you must be in a party to enter the guild hall. Look at Eye of the North. People who didn’t buy it didn’t get access to any of the skills from there. Would that leave people behind?

Actually, the WvW map is said to be entering a rotation with the existing WvW borderland map. So one week it’ll be the old borderlands, the next it’ll be the new map. So one week players without the expansion wouldn’t be able to enter their WvWs borderland unless the map was free for all users. That was the point of these questions.

psizone.8437:

I don’t get it, either. In my mind, as long as it doesn’t lock people out of the base game, WvW and perhaps PvP being the main modes at risk here then by all rights, it should be locked.

Though guild halls being locked out for non-payers despite the guild leader having the expansion could risk the integrity of the guild system.

Certainly and lead to a schism in the game. There would be a huge outcry from those who don’t buy the xpac.

Plus there’s the issue of whatever they do with precursor questing. If existing precursors can be quested for only if you buy the xpac then again there will be a huge outcry. New precursors and legendaries it would be more reasonable to gate.

Looks at anet’s track record on this:

GW1 expansions (campaigns, though EOTN was just a mini-campaign really)

New area/pve content is locked
new classes/progression mechanics are locked (only obtainable by accessing new area)
PvP access to new progression/specs locked (you can still pvp, but can’t use the masteries/new skills)
new PvP maps and guild hall maps, not locked
new pvp modes, not locked
acquisition of new items, locked (you need access to their content) but you can trade for them.

Basically, I’d imagine anything not directly relating to character advancement/specs or PvE content to be accessible to people without the expansion.

The gamers that have been with gw2 since the beginning (including me) are going to buy the expansion happily so anet gets paid to keep making the game better. If anyone feels so self entitled that they are bitter about this game not giving you EVERYTHING for free (even though it gives out way more free updates than any other game) then that is simply sad. Developers should get paid for their work. Guildhalls, the WvW map, and everything else new even after the expansion should require the expansion. I bought this game before it launched and I haven’t spent a dime on the gem store but it’s about time I pay more for anets employees

Brother Dulfite.5793:

The gamers that have been with gw2 since the beginning (including me) are going to buy the expansion happily so anet gets paid to keep making the game better. If anyone feels so self entitled that they are bitter about this game not giving you EVERYTHING for free (even though it gives out way more free updates than any other game) then that is simply sad. Developers should get paid for their work. Guildhalls, the WvW map, and everything else new even after the expansion should require the expansion. I bought this game before it launched and I haven’t spent a dime on the gem store but it’s about time I pay more for anets employees

I buy gems a lot and will 100% buy the expansion but for those who won’t or can’t, locking them out of WvW is a bit extreme, no? They paid for the base game with WvW included in it. It’s not like PvP where they can just avoid that gametype, this map will replace the borderland every few weeks, and having it locked will alienate players that don’t purchase.

You say people are “self entitled” for asking for something like that for free, but I think that the WvW map is a valid thing to ask for and lashing out at people who may not be able to purchase the expansion pack for any reason is rude and disgraceful. They want to at least be able to keep playing the things they have been thus far, they’re not asking for everything to be handed to them. We’re a good community, don’t ruin it by trying to alienate people.

I think there are some people who keep mixing up being “entitled” with “caring about people who don’t want to or cannot afford to buy the expansion”.

I am worried about the PvP and WvW additions hurting the community. In WvW having your home borderland be new map could instantly murder some smaller servers that already do not have coverage. There are also dragon ranked pvp players who do not like PVE who may be forced to buy the full expansion to play one more map.

For the new players, there is very little incentive to buy Heart of Thorns until they are level 80 majority of the PvE content requires you to be level 80. This only hurts leveling players.

goldnuggets.7189:

yea this whole game being pay 2 win locked is total bs. to even create a character i need to pay $40? that is completely rediculous. all the story and everything gated behind a $40 buy 2 play wall? oh wait thats how gw has always worked nvm.

It disturbs me how a post that is so dripping with sarcasm went over so many peoples heads and they responded as if he meant it.
I am not going to buy an expansion for just the new map type in pvp, so I hope there’s an upgrade option just for that, if the expansion doesn’t pan out (I’m not boarding the hype train this time around)

morrolan.9608:

psizone.8437:

I don’t get it, either. In my mind, as long as it doesn’t lock people out of the base game, WvW and perhaps PvP being the main modes at risk here then by all rights, it should be locked.

Though guild halls being locked out for non-payers despite the guild leader having the expansion could risk the integrity of the guild system.

Certainly and lead to a schism in the game. There would be a huge outcry from those who don’t buy the xpac.

Plus there’s the issue of whatever they do with precursor questing. If existing precursors can be quested for only if you buy the xpac then again there will be a huge outcry. New precursors and legendaries it would be more reasonable to gate.

I hadn’t even considered the precursor questing! i know of a few people personally that would walk if they made it so the only way you could choose this route is if you buy the xpac. ESPECIALLY since it was something dangled out there by Anet LONG before talk of an xpac was even a thing.

Maybe HoT lore and zones content and masteries tied to the HoT zones will be locked. Anet said they would be extending the masteries into the already existing zones so I would only hope that they would be unlockable without the expansion.

Just confirmed in the blog post that the Mastery system as a whole requires HoT.

The ability to train Masteries is unlocked at level 80 for all players that own Heart of Thorns.

lordkrall.7241:

Just confirmed in the blog post that the Mastery system as a whole requires HoT.

The ability to train Masteries is unlocked at level 80 for all players that own Heart of Thorns.

Hmmm… curious. I wonder what happens to those who don’t have HoT? I mean, will they continue to gain skills as they do now or will they just… stop at level 80? That explains why they have to make changes to the trait acquisition system.

Not to mention that as it stands now it looks like they are taking the one thing they dangled before their playerbase long ago, and putting it behind the buying of the xpac. So the option is buy the xpac and you can quest to craft a precursor or don’t buy it (for whatever your reasons might be) and stay fighting with RNG or buying them for gold.

I’m sure this will go over swimmingly with the player base.

PookieDaWombat.6209:

Not to mention that as it stands now it looks like they are taking the one thing they dangled before their playerbase long ago, and putting it behind the buying of the xpac. So the option is buy the xpac and you can quest to craft a precursor or don’t buy it (for whatever your reasons might be) and stay fighting with RNG or buying them for gold.

I’m sure this will go over swimmingly with the player base.

I think you overestimate how many that care about the Precursor hunt or who even knew it was a requested thing.

Don’t really see much of an issue with it either. Unless they remove to ability for them to drop and be sold nothing will really change for people that don’t buy the expansion (except possibly making it easier to get a hold of one due to lower prices on the TP).

lordkrall.7241:

PookieDaWombat.6209:

Not to mention that as it stands now it looks like they are taking the one thing they dangled before their playerbase long ago, and putting it behind the buying of the xpac. So the option is buy the xpac and you can quest to craft a precursor or don’t buy it (for whatever your reasons might be) and stay fighting with RNG or buying them for gold.

I’m sure this will go over swimmingly with the player base.

I think you overestimate how many that care about the Precursor hunt or who even knew it was a requested thing.

Don’t really see much of an issue with it either. Unless they remove to ability for them to drop and be sold nothing will really change for people that don’t buy the expansion (except possibly making it easier to get a hold of one due to lower prices on the TP).

I think you severely underestimate how many there are since it was Anet’s original talking about it and the player outrage after all of that which lead the company to develop its “not saying anything to anyone and anything” policy.

lordkrall.7241:

I think you overestimate how many that care about the Precursor hunt or who even knew it was a requested thing.

Don’t really see much of an issue with it either. Unless they remove to ability for them to drop and be sold nothing will really change for people that don’t buy the expansion (except possibly making it easier to get a hold of one due to lower prices on the TP).

Doesn’t really matter how many people knew it was requested, the fact that they seem to be using something long sought after and long promised to boost sales is in poor taste.

It’s well within their right, and it won’t stop me buying the pack but I just disagree that it’s the right call.

And yet it was only the user base on the forums that took notice of it (more or less) and not even close to all of us reacted with the massive rage that some of you did.

The vast majority of the players probably have no idea whatsoever that there have ever been talk about this before it gets implemented with the expansion.

lordkrall.7241:

And yet it was only the user base on the forums that took notice of it (more or less) and not even close to all of us reacted with the massive rage that some of you did.

The vast majority of the players probably have no idea whatsoever that there have ever been talk about this before it gets implemented with the expansion.

Well, i do know that more than a few of my guildmates who dont come to the forums, have long talked about how cool it would be to have precursor crafting, it was and still is a highly requested feature that i see thrown around in game, more than tengu, more than polearm weapons. players want legendary weapons, and for the vast majority they are out of reach.

Im not surprised its going to be locked behind HoT though, it is after all a expansion, and i would have been shocked that it would be available to everyone, then again im used to typical expansion from games like TA:Kingdoms, Sins of a solar empire, Warhammer Dawn of War…where unless you buy the expansion you get nothing, so its not to much of a disappointment.

Guild halls, progression, endgame, precursor crafting, etc.

You could say this for everything. All these things have been requested for a long time. Did they ever say that precursor crafting would be ‘free’?

butch.8136:

Guild halls, progression, endgame, precursor crafting, etc.

You could say this for everything. All these things have been requested for a long time. Did they ever say that precursor crafting would be ‘free’?

Nope. But to be fair, at the time this was all discussed they were prepping for a feature pack and announced they would work it into a new rewards system later and this was during the time they kept stating they had no plans for expansions so it was generally assumed to be free.