Guild Wars 2

Here’s the current thread on the topic: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/Mystic-Coins-1-gold-each

Good luck.

Cristalyan.5728:

Don’t tell me the players set-up the prices – it is false. The prices are driven by supply and demand. We know that in this moment the demand is high. And the supply is controlled by ANet. Conclusion? Who set-up the prices?
Alooo! Mr. Smith? What you said about the wrong ANet behavior to set-up the values of the materials on TP?

The buy out of MCs last week was a prime example of how the player base is setting the prices. Without Anet tinkering on the faucets and sinks, 2 players decided to buy 30k MCs off the market for elevated prices. Unfortunately, they were the only ones wanting to pay those high prices.

Supply and prices were back to pre-buyout values within 12-24 hours.

I’m not sure why people think they shouldn’t be 1g. Just because they weren’t worth anything 4years ago doesn’t mean that’s the price they should be forever. What if they were 5g each? 1g wouldn’t sound so bad.

Why has the price increased so much anyway? All the weapon recipes from the forge were in the game from the beginning. The only thing that’s eating mystic coins is the guild hall. But those upgrades should be done by done in most guilds or won’t ever be. So I’m curious where all the coins are going.

Or is it just that the supply was reduced greatly? I don’t really remember if there were other ways to get them years ago.

Kiza.5630:

Why has the price increased so much anyway? All the weapon recipes from the forge were in the game from the beginning. The only thing that’s eating mystic coins is the guild hall. But those upgrades should be done by done in most guilds or won’t ever be. So I’m curious where all the coins are going.

Or is it just that the supply was reduced greatly? I don’t really remember if there were other ways to get them years ago.

More sinks. Not more income. Relatively less income because more people hoard.

It’s a cycle. Increased value is increased hoarding. Increased hoarding is increased value. It’s self up regulating

Yes, I know. But it can’t be all the guild halls. So I was wondering what people do with all the coins. Uses for them are still limited if I look at the list in the Wiki.

Wanze.8410

The buy out of MCs last week was a prime example of how the player base is setting the prices. Without Anet tinkering on the faucets and sinks, 2 players decided to buy 30k MCs off the market for elevated prices. Unfortunately, they were the only ones wanting to pay those high prices.

Unfortunately ? Did I sense a shadow of regret in this statement?
Still I understand that in GW2 we have very few players wanting to pay those prices. But this does not mean we don’t have players needing the coins. But simply don’t wanting to pay those high prices.
But, again, not the players set-up the prices. As long as the supply is controlled by ANet we cannot say that the prices are set-up by the players.
Let’s take the following case: Let’s suppose the MC supplied bu ANet on the game may cover only a 10% of the real needs, what will happen? Well, the prices will find an equilibrium point and will slightly fluctuate around that point. Any speculator intervention will make the prices to spike and after that to slowly go back to the equilibrium point. Can we speak about prices set-up by players?
It seems more that a price the players are forced to pay and not a price set-up by players.
Is exactly what happens now. With one exception – the price of the MC is not at an equilibrium point. It continues to raise.
Also, 30 players working a new generation legendary can very easy wipe the supply of MC from TP. Without any malicious intention.

As a note: John Smith said that the quantity of MC ingame is far greater than the MC being used. Well, at the beginning of the game a lot of MC were supplied to the players. How this huge quantity can help a new starter – playing for 3 or 4 months to make a legendary? Some may say that 3 or 4 months is not enough time spent ingame to aim at a legendary – I think this is false. Because ANet expect us to spend money (real money) ingame starting with the first day. And not to wait 6-7-8 months before doing that.

Kiza.5630:

Yes, I know. But it can’t be all the guild halls. So I was wondering what people do with all the coins. Uses for them are still limited if I look at the list in the Wiki.

The specialisation weapon collections require mystic weapons for example

In a few months time, today’s “expensive” price might look like a bargain.
Some stuff goes up in value, other stuff drops.
Oh, and none of it is real, just pixels.

Wanze.8410:

Cristalyan.5728:

Don’t tell me the players set-up the prices – it is false. The prices are driven by supply and demand. We know that in this moment the demand is high. And the supply is controlled by ANet. Conclusion? Who set-up the prices?
Alooo! Mr. Smith? What you said about the wrong ANet behavior to set-up the values of the materials on TP?

The buy out of MCs last week was a prime example of how the player base is setting the prices. Without Anet tinkering on the faucets and sinks, 2 players decided to buy 30k MCs off the market for elevated prices. Unfortunately, they were the only ones wanting to pay those high prices.

Supply and prices were back to pre-buyout values within 12-24 hours.

This entire market is designed as John Smith’s little playground. If there too much lumber, he can increase the cost of refinement or create new recipes. If there is too little X material, he can create a source or decrease the cost of another recipe etc. John Smith have power that any academic economist will drool at the opportunity.

More I read these threads, the more I realize the market is just a one sided arrangement. I am not sure how player actually contribute to this market at all.

Kiza.5630:

Why has the price increased so much anyway? All the weapon recipes from the forge were in the game from the beginning. The only thing that’s eating mystic coins is the guild hall. But those upgrades should be done by done in most guilds or won’t ever be. So I’m curious where all the coins are going.

Or is it just that the supply was reduced greatly? I don’t really remember if there were other ways to get them years ago.

HoT introduced more uses or them. The new legendaries. Mystic Tribute requires 250 coins plus the mystic clovers. Mystic Tribute wasn’t in the game from the beginning, just with the introduction of HoT. The previous legendaries only needed the mystic clovers for Gift of Fortune.
New collections. To complete the set for the elite spec weapons you need the mystic weapon. That’s 30 coins.

Such a good money maker in game!!!

Wanze.8410:

Cristalyan.5728:

Don’t tell me the players set-up the prices – it is false. The prices are driven by supply and demand. We know that in this moment the demand is high. And the supply is controlled by ANet. Conclusion? Who set-up the prices?
Alooo! Mr. Smith? What you said about the wrong ANet behavior to set-up the values of the materials on TP?

The buy out of MCs last week was a prime example of how the player base is setting the prices. Without Anet tinkering on the faucets and sinks, 2 players decided to buy 30k MCs off the market for elevated prices. Unfortunately, they were the only ones wanting to pay those high prices.

Supply and prices were back to pre-buyout values within 12-24 hours.

oh kitten, i missed a good chance to sell all the coins i hoarded, guess i will let them rot in my bank until the price spikes again and hopefully i wont miss it :/

Well this thread is over a month old and still getting new posts fairly regularly. I think its safe to say that a lot of people are still not satisfied with MC in terms of how you acquire them vs how many you need for crafting

Cristalyan.5728:

Wanze.8410

The buy out of MCs last week was a prime example of how the player base is setting the prices. Without Anet tinkering on the faucets and sinks, 2 players decided to buy 30k MCs off the market for elevated prices. Unfortunately, they were the only ones wanting to pay those high prices.

Unfortunately ? Did I sense a shadow of regret in this statement?
Still I understand that in GW2 we have very few players wanting to pay those prices. But this does not mean we don’t have players needing the coins. But simply don’t wanting to pay those high prices.
But, again, not the players set-up the prices. As long as the supply is controlled by ANet we cannot say that the prices are set-up by the players.
Let’s take the following case: Let’s suppose the MC supplied bu ANet on the game may cover only a 10% of the real needs, what will happen? Well, the prices will find an equilibrium point and will slightly fluctuate around that point. Any speculator intervention will make the prices to spike and after that to slowly go back to the equilibrium point. Can we speak about prices set-up by players?
It seems more that a price the players are forced to pay and not a price set-up by players.
Is exactly what happens now. With one exception – the price of the MC is not at an equilibrium point. It continues to raise.
Also, 30 players working a new generation legendary can very easy wipe the supply of MC from TP. Without any malicious intention.

As a note: John Smith said that the quantity of MC ingame is far greater than the MC being used. Well, at the beginning of the game a lot of MC were supplied to the players. How this huge quantity can help a new starter – playing for 3 or 4 months to make a legendary? Some may say that 3 or 4 months is not enough time spent ingame to aim at a legendary – I think this is false. Because ANet expect us to spend money (real money) ingame starting with the first day. And not to wait 6-7-8 months before doing that.

Again, Anet doesnt supply and destroy mystic coins, the players do it. IF a player decides not to log in anymore, he wont supply the economy with MCs, even though Anet did everything to set him up with that ability.

Anet also cant force someone to destroy mystic coins by crafting/forging items or upgrading their guild hall. Its always a conscious choice of the player, the same goes for his evaluation of mystic coins and at which price they are willing to sell and buy them.

Of course there are players that dont want to pay 1g for a mystic coins. They have two choices: either earn them themselves over a long period of time or give up on whatever they needed them for. But if they give up on it, they wont sell their excess MCs for less than 1g just because they think MCs should be cheaper. So I dont think its fair from them to blame other players who dont sell their MCs for less either.

The price for Coins is 1g because that is what players are willing to pay for it. And the current prices isnt only affected by the supply and demand of MCs but the average amount of gold a player earns.

Anet will probably add another faucet in the future, so the supply will be a bit more elastic than it actually is. But I dont think that this will neccessarily mean that people will farm it and the price will get lower.

To give an example: They introduce new events, where a random place of power is getting attacked. The players have to defend it for 6 minutes and as a reward, they earn one mystic coin by interacting with the place of power afterwards. These events only spawn once every hour, so 24 times a day.

So if a player is doing 5 of these events, he earns 5 coins with 30 minutes playtime.

But most players will be able to earn more gold in 30 minutes straight gameplay doing another farm and will opt for that and then pay the 1g per coin on the tp.

Kiza.5630:

Why has the price increased so much anyway? All the weapon recipes from the forge were in the game from the beginning. The only thing that’s eating mystic coins is the guild hall. But those upgrades should be done by done in most guilds or won’t ever be. So I’m curious where all the coins are going.

Or is it just that the supply was reduced greatly? I don’t really remember if there were other ways to get them years ago.

Well incoming supply was reduced dramatically when monthly achievements were removed, and the potential to gather the same MC per month didn’t return until we got the Legendary Ley Line anomaly event around July 2016, so for a long time incoming supply was actually smaller. But really the biggest factor is the legendary collections. It made legendaries more obtainable in that you no longer had to buy a precursor from the TP or get one as a drop, so more people were starting to craft legendaries. Then the HoT legendaries require an entire stack of MC on top of 77 clovers (so up to ~500 coins, more if you get unlucky when crafting clovers), so require a minimum of a full stack of MC to be destroyed to create. We got more sinks, and the sinks that had already existed became more accessible to more players, so more players were using them.

Justine.6351:

I’m not sure why people think they shouldn’t be 1g. Just because they weren’t worth anything 4years ago doesn’t mean that’s the price they should be forever. What if they were 5g each? 1g wouldn’t sound so bad.

This is such a non argument. It can just as easily be turned around and I could say

“I’m not sure why people think they should be 1 gold.”

Do you see how weak that is as an argument?

OriOri.8724:

Kiza.5630:

Why has the price increased so much anyway? All the weapon recipes from the forge were in the game from the beginning. The only thing that’s eating mystic coins is the guild hall. But those upgrades should be done by done in most guilds or won’t ever be. So I’m curious where all the coins are going.

Or is it just that the supply was reduced greatly? I don’t really remember if there were other ways to get them years ago.

Well incoming supply was reduced dramatically when monthly achievements were removed, and the potential to gather the same MC per month didn’t return until we got the Legendary Ley Line anomaly event around July 2016, so for a long time incoming supply was actually smaller. But really the biggest factor is the legendary collections. It made legendaries more obtainable in that you no longer had to buy a precursor from the TP or get one as a drop, so more people were starting to craft legendaries. Then the HoT legendaries require an entire stack of MC on top of 77 clovers (so up to ~500 coins, more if you get unlucky when crafting clovers), so require a minimum of a full stack of MC to be destroyed to create. We got more sinks, and the sinks that had already existed became more accessible to more players, so more players were using them.

Justine.6351:

I’m not sure why people think they shouldn’t be 1g. Just because they weren’t worth anything 4years ago doesn’t mean that’s the price they should be forever. What if they were 5g each? 1g wouldn’t sound so bad.

This is such a non argument. It can just as easily be turned around and I could say

“I’m not sure why people think they should be 1 gold.”

Do you see how weak that is as an argument?

I wasn’t trying to defend 1g mystic coins. I was pointing out how irrelevant such a complaint is when dealing with such low gold costs.

Manasa Devi.7958:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

mauried.5608:

The basic problem with this entire MC argument is this.
I need MCs more than you do , so you should sell all your hoarded MCs on the TP so that I can get them at a cheaper price.

Everything that people sell on the TP works like that: I sell the stuff I don’t need to people who are willing to pay me for it because they want it more. A big difference with m-coins is that no one needs them; we just want more shinies. We get plenty for free without doing more than logging on; I’m okay with the idea that we pay someone else for the use of their freebies.

There’s no such difference. There’s not a single item on the TP that anyone needs. Everything you buy from there is either a luxury or taking a shortcut.

You misunderstand: there are items on the TP that buyers need to outfit their toons in mode-standard gear (i.e. exotics for open world, ascended for fractals, etc). Obviously sellers never need the stuff they sell, otherwise they wouldn’t sell.

Mystic coins aren’t needed by anyone; they are desired (sometimes highly desired) by people who wish to make or sell luxury items, things that aren’t needed a mode-standard gear.

Nearly everyone considers the possibility that they might want to make m-coin-dependent shinies and that causes people to think twice before selling them. As shown by recent TP history, that won’t stop a lot of people from selling if the price is right.

Justine.6351:

I’m not sure why people think they shouldn’t be 1g. Just because they weren’t worth anything 4years ago doesn’t mean that’s the price they should be forever. What if they were 5g each? 1g wouldn’t sound so bad.

If one were to dig through the reasoning as to why anything in the game should be cheaper, the root cause is going to be some combination of impatience and frustrated desire. People who want a commodity because they want what it can get them are always going to place more stock in an argument rooted in, “They were at a lower price at some point.” People who want to sell the commodity (or those who don’t care one way or the other) are going to be the ones saying, “Count your blessings.”

OriOri.8724:

Kiza.5630:

Why has the price increased so much anyway? All the weapon recipes from the forge were in the game from the beginning. The only thing that’s eating mystic coins is the guild hall. But those upgrades should be done by done in most guilds or won’t ever be. So I’m curious where all the coins are going.

Or is it just that the supply was reduced greatly? I don’t really remember if there were other ways to get them years ago.

Well incoming supply was reduced dramatically when monthly achievements were removed, and the potential to gather the same MC per month didn’t return until we got the Legendary Ley Line anomaly event around July 2016, so for a long time incoming supply was actually smaller. But really the biggest factor is the legendary collections. It made legendaries more obtainable in that you no longer had to buy a precursor from the TP or get one as a drop, so more people were starting to craft legendaries. Then the HoT legendaries require an entire stack of MC on top of 77 clovers (so up to ~500 coins, more if you get unlucky when crafting clovers), so require a minimum of a full stack of MC to be destroyed to create. We got more sinks, and the sinks that had already existed became more accessible to more players, so more players were using them.

Justine.6351:

I’m not sure why people think they shouldn’t be 1g. Just because they weren’t worth anything 4years ago doesn’t mean that’s the price they should be forever. What if they were 5g each? 1g wouldn’t sound so bad.

This is such a non argument. It can just as easily be turned around and I could say

“I’m not sure why people think they should be 1 gold.”

Do you see how weak that is as an argument?

They “should” be one gold because that is what the people who own them are willing to sell them for, and what people who want to buy them are willing to pay.

Actually the strongest possible argument.

OriOri.8724:

Justine.6351:

I’m not sure why people think they shouldn’t be 1g. Just because they weren’t worth anything 4years ago doesn’t mean that’s the price they should be forever. What if they were 5g each? 1g wouldn’t sound so bad.

This is such a non argument. It can just as easily be turned around and I could say

“I’m not sure why people think they should be 1 gold.”

Do you see how weak that is as an argument?

I think they should be 1g because Anet published its intent to reward players more for daily log ins in this blog post.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/introducing-the-new-daily-achievement-system/

As MCs has their primary source through daily login rewards, I find it only logical that the high gold value is intended.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Manasa Devi.7958:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

mauried.5608:

The basic problem with this entire MC argument is this.
I need MCs more than you do , so you should sell all your hoarded MCs on the TP so that I can get them at a cheaper price.

Everything that people sell on the TP works like that: I sell the stuff I don’t need to people who are willing to pay me for it because they want it more. A big difference with m-coins is that no one needs them; we just want more shinies. We get plenty for free without doing more than logging on; I’m okay with the idea that we pay someone else for the use of their freebies.

There’s no such difference. There’s not a single item on the TP that anyone needs. Everything you buy from there is either a luxury or taking a shortcut.

You misunderstand: there are items on the TP that buyers need to outfit their toons in mode-standard gear (i.e. exotics for open world, ascended for fractals, etc). Obviously sellers never need the stuff they sell, otherwise they wouldn’t sell.

Shortcuts. You can make your own gear.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Mystic coins aren’t needed by anyone; they are desired (sometimes highly desired) by people who wish to make or sell luxury items, things that aren’t needed a mode-standard gear.

And luxury items.

Just like I said.

Wanze.8410:

OriOri.8724:

Justine.6351:

I’m not sure why people think they shouldn’t be 1g. Just because they weren’t worth anything 4years ago doesn’t mean that’s the price they should be forever. What if they were 5g each? 1g wouldn’t sound so bad.

This is such a non argument. It can just as easily be turned around and I could say

“I’m not sure why people think they should be 1 gold.”

Do you see how weak that is as an argument?

I think they should be 1g because Anet published its intent to reward players more for daily log ins in this blog post.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/introducing-the-new-daily-achievement-system/

As MCs has their primary source through daily login rewards, I find it only logical that the high gold value is intended.

That’s a 2 year old post, its no longer relevant to the game as it stands now. And even if MC were 1 silver each, over the course of a month daily login rewards are still very rewarding considering you don’t have to do anything to get them. Laurels, tomes, transmutation charges, MC, mats, exotic gear, luck. Its not as if daily login rewards only consist of MC.

@Justine – I apologize for misunderstanding what you wrote.

OriOri.8724:

Well this thread is over a month old and still getting new posts fairly regularly. I think its safe to say that a lot of people are still not satisfied with MC in terms of how you acquire them vs how many you need for crafting

Just because someone is posting in this thread doesnt neccessarily mean that they arent satisfied with the current value and supply of Mystic Coins.

I am fine with it because they reward loyal players and there is nothing wrong with that.
If someone thinks they dont earn MCs fast enough, Anet recently gave you 2 extra gold for completing your dailies, which enables you to buy 2 more Mcs per day for current prices, basically giving you the opportunity to get 60 more MCs per month without any additional work.

OriOri.8724:

Wanze.8410:

OriOri.8724:

Justine.6351:

I’m not sure why people think they shouldn’t be 1g. Just because they weren’t worth anything 4years ago doesn’t mean that’s the price they should be forever. What if they were 5g each? 1g wouldn’t sound so bad.

This is such a non argument. It can just as easily be turned around and I could say

“I’m not sure why people think they should be 1 gold.”

Do you see how weak that is as an argument?

I think they should be 1g because Anet published its intent to reward players more for daily log ins in this blog post.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/introducing-the-new-daily-achievement-system/

As MCs has their primary source through daily login rewards, I find it only logical that the high gold value is intended.

That’s a 2 year old post, its no longer relevant to the game as it stands now. And even if MC were 1 silver each, over the course of a month daily login rewards are still very rewarding considering you don’t have to do anything to get them. Laurels, tomes, transmutation charges, MC, mats, exotic gear, luck. Its not as if daily login rewards only consist of MC.

@Justine – I apologize for misunderstanding what you wrote.

Its highly relevant because Anet explained why they want Mystic Coins to be more valuable.
And they recently renewed their stance during the AMA that they dont have a problem with the current value of mystic coins, so I dont know why people expect them to change anything.
How much can you sell Laurels, tomes, transmutation charges, luck, mats and the exotic gear for on the tp, btw?
And how did any of those those rewards gain value since introduction of the login rewards?

Their value is determined by the players and they are only used for exclusive skins as their description shows. They really shouldn’t be touched since people who do sell them also want to make money.

I hoard mine until i use them so I wouldn’t know, but I don’t see a problem. And I’m going to need to buy a lot more.

Justine.6351:

I’m not sure why people think they shouldn’t be 1g. Just because they weren’t worth anything 4years ago doesn’t mean that’s the price they should be forever. What if they were 5g each? 1g wouldn’t sound so bad.

… because they are entitled to believe they can get anything they want for whatever price they are willing to pay in a time that fits their desires.

Actually, I’m more than satisfied. Besides, for a company that has taken a hands off approach to the TP, it’s pretty funny they would give anyone the impression they will do something about this considering they already make MC’s available to every player for nothing by doing nothing. I can’t wait to see their solution actually, just to see if it makes MC’s cost even more than they do now. That would be hilarious. I can see it now “we are increasing the number of MC you get from your login reward by X” … how people would still QQ.

Obtena.7952:

Actually, I’m more than satisfied. Besides, for a company that has taken a hands off approach to the TP, it’s pretty funny they would give anyone the impression they will do something about this considering they already make MC’s available to every player for nothing by doing nothing. I can’t wait to see their solution actually, just to see if it makes MC’s cost even more than they do now. That would be hilarious. I can see it now “we are increasing the number of MC you get from your login reward by X” … how people would still QQ.

I agree, dont know why people think Anet will do anything about it after MOB said:

So we’re watching them closely but not taking action at this time.

And if they watched them as closely as I did, they would have seen that nothing much has changed since Mike´s answer.

A small spike in price, when Wintersday was released, which was expected due to Winters Presence and that small spike after the buy out, which didnt even last a day.

Apart from that, prices and supply are pretty much the same as in November, so no need to expect a change.

Wanze.8410:

Obtena.7952:

Actually, I’m more than satisfied. Besides, for a company that has taken a hands off approach to the TP, it’s pretty funny they would give anyone the impression they will do something about this considering they already make MC’s available to every player for nothing by doing nothing. I can’t wait to see their solution actually, just to see if it makes MC’s cost even more than they do now. That would be hilarious. I can see it now “we are increasing the number of MC you get from your login reward by X” … how people would still QQ.

I agree, dont know why people think Anet will do anything about it after MOB said:

So we’re watching them closely but not taking action at this time.

And if they watched them as closely as I did, they would have seen that nothing much has changed since Mike´s answer.

A small spike in price, when Wintersday was released, which was expected due to Winters Presence and that small spike after the buy out, which didnt even last a day.

Apart from that, prices and supply are pretty much the same as in November, so no need to expect a change.

You claim that ANet won’t do anything about them, which is in direct contrast to the fact that ANet has been slowly adding more sources for MC. Internally, at least for a while, they either agreed that

A – There was actually a problem with MC, or

B – Enough people were upset about MC that they needed to do something

But regardless, they did add new sources, so its not as if they haven’t touched MC at all.

OriOri.8724:

Wanze.8410:

Obtena.7952:

Actually, I’m more than satisfied. Besides, for a company that has taken a hands off approach to the TP, it’s pretty funny they would give anyone the impression they will do something about this considering they already make MC’s available to every player for nothing by doing nothing. I can’t wait to see their solution actually, just to see if it makes MC’s cost even more than they do now. That would be hilarious. I can see it now “we are increasing the number of MC you get from your login reward by X” … how people would still QQ.

I agree, dont know why people think Anet will do anything about it after MOB said:

So we’re watching them closely but not taking action at this time.

And if they watched them as closely as I did, they would have seen that nothing much has changed since Mike´s answer.

A small spike in price, when Wintersday was released, which was expected due to Winters Presence and that small spike after the buy out, which didnt even last a day.

Apart from that, prices and supply are pretty much the same as in November, so no need to expect a change.

You claim that ANet won’t do anything about them, which is in direct contrast to the fact that ANet has been slowly adding more sources for MC. Internally, at least for a while, they either agreed that

A – There was actually a problem with MC, or

B – Enough people were upset about MC that they needed to do something

But regardless, they did add new sources, so its not as if they haven’t touched MC at all.

I didnt claim anything its what MO said in the AMA at the end of november:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/5e6uxb/a_crack_in_the_ice_devs_here_ask_us_anything/daa579w/

And please correct me, if I am wrong, but I am unaware of any sources of mystic coins that have been added after that AMA.

The MAMA challenge mode was released with that patch and the fractal chests 7 months ago. The only source I am not sure about its release is the Ley Line Event but I think that was also during S3E1 in July last year.

All those three sources just add a little bit more unelastic supply because they are all limited per day per account and were probably only put in to cover additional demand that was expected from the release of Eureka in E2 and Shooshadoo in E3 later on.

So if you can link any sources for additional changes or statements regarding mystic coins by Anet after November 21st, I will regard your post baseless assumptions and speculation.

mauried.5608:

The basic problem with this entire MC argument is this.
I need MCs more than you do , so you should sell all your hoarded MCs on the TP so that I can get them at a cheaper price.

There are people, irl, that need your hoarded money more than you do. Give it to them. I need your “hoarded” gold more than you, give it to me.

Who is to say who deserves these thing? The fact is, we all have the same opportunities in this game to do the same things, and some may be slower at getting to them. I highly doubt people have been explicitly not selling coins on the market in hopes that one day they would be worth a lot. Being prepared for a possible future need is not hoarding, no matter how you feel about it. You do not deserve my log in rewards more than I do.

Wanze.8410

And they recently renewed their stance during the AMA that they dont have a problem with the current value of mystic coins, so I dont know why people expect them to change anything.

Sorry to correct you, but we are not talking here about ANet’s problem. This is a player’s problem. And, because it’s supposed ANet is very careful with the playerbase problems, we expect that problem to be fixed.

Remember that ANet had no problem with all the initial issues from HoT – and a lot of players left the game. Then, this started to be an ANet problem and the Game Director left the game too.

Again, nobody on this Forum creates topics about ANet problems. All the topics are about players problems.
And in this case, it seems that ANet simply refuses to fix this problem – the reason is the health of the economy and the TP – at least this is what they say. I wonder, how the growing number of discontent players regarding this aspect can help ANet. Because, at least for me, is clear that not the TP or the economy is the real reason of this stubborn attitude.
Anyone remembers resonating sliver? The price for this product went down from 75s to few coopers in the moment ANet decided to add more sources. Was the economy killed by this? The TP crashed? NO. So, adding new sources and allowing the price to drop is not a problem for the economy or for the TP.
Why in the case of MC this is a problem? And for who is this a problem?

Cristalyan.5728:

Anyone remembers resonating sliver? The price for this product went down from 75s to few coopers in the moment ANet decided to add more sources. Was the economy killed by this? The TP crashed? NO. So, adding new sources and allowing the price to drop is not a problem for the economy or for the TP.
Why in the case of MC this is a problem? And for who is this a problem?

Crashing the MC market would remove the log-in value that they have for those who prefer to sell what they get. Resonating slivers went from having (possibly too much) value to having none. There is no point in them existing anymore, and getting them from mining and having to sell them on the TP is an annoyance. Resonating slivers would be a good case for what Anet should not do.

Greener.6204

Crashing the MC market would remove the log-in value that they have for those who prefer to sell what they get. Resonating slivers went from having (possibly too much) value to having none. There is no point in them existing anymore, and getting them from mining and having to sell them on the TP is an annoyance.

I think you are sarcastic now. By log-in in you receive a lot of account bound items. You cannot sell them. The MC are one of the very few you can sell . And you tell us that this item (the MC) will remove the log-in value?
He, He, He, Heeee ! I remember the topic regarding the cap of AP for daily missions. This is indeed something removing the value of log-in. But the MC?
To understand from what you say that one of the main reasons to log-in for you are the MC?

Can you, please, add some details why resonating slivers should not exist anymore? And why the MC should exist with a rising price?
Changing (or even crashing) the MC market – like resonating slivers market – is not a problem. In the game you have so many players needing MC and so few having a lot, that, I think, the percentage of the players saluting this measure will be far greater than the players opposing it.

Again: For who is ANet keeping this problem unsolved?

Cristalyan.5728:

Wanze.8410

And they recently renewed their stance during the AMA that they dont have a problem with the current value of mystic coins, so I dont know why people expect them to change anything.

Sorry to correct you, but we are not talking here about ANet’s problem. This is a player’s problem. And, because it’s supposed ANet is very careful with the playerbase problems, we expect that problem to be fixed.

Remember that ANet had no problem with all the initial issues from HoT – and a lot of players left the game. Then, this started to be an ANet problem and the Game Director left the game too.

Again, nobody on this Forum creates topics about ANet problems. All the topics are about players problems.
And in this case, it seems that ANet simply refuses to fix this problem – the reason is the health of the economy and the TP – at least this is what they say. I wonder, how the growing number of discontent players regarding this aspect can help ANet. Because, at least for me, is clear that not the TP or the economy is the real reason of this stubborn attitude.
Anyone remembers resonating sliver? The price for this product went down from 75s to few coopers in the moment ANet decided to add more sources. Was the economy killed by this? The TP crashed? NO. So, adding new sources and allowing the price to drop is not a problem for the economy or for the TP.
Why in the case of MC this is a problem? And for who is this a problem?

I dont know how these issues are even remotely comparable but I am sure that you can provide a source where Anet mentioned that they dont think Resonating Slivers and their low droprate after HoT where a problem and they publicly stated that they dont plan to fix their droprate because they think its fine as it is.

Cristalyan.5728:

Greener.6204

Crashing the MC market would remove the log-in value that they have for those who prefer to sell what they get. Resonating slivers went from having (possibly too much) value to having none. There is no point in them existing anymore, and getting them from mining and having to sell them on the TP is an annoyance.

I think you are sarcastic now. By log-in in you receive a lot of account bound items. You cannot sell them. The MC are one of the very few you can sell . And you tell us that this item (the MC) will remove the log-in value?
He, He, He, Heeee ! I remember the topic regarding the cap of AP for daily missions. This is indeed something removing the value of log-in. But the MC?
To understand from what you say that one of the main reasons to log-in for you are the MC?

Can you, please, add some details why resonating slivers should not exist anymore? And why the MC should exist with a rising price?
Changing (or even crashing) the MC market – like resonating slivers market – is not a problem. In the game you have so many players needing MC and so few having a lot, that, I think, the percentage of the players saluting this measure will be far greater than the players opposing it.

Again: For who is ANet keeping this problem unsolved?

I’m not sure what you’re arguing, but you seem to have substituted in your own version of my points, and then chose to mock what you created. I never said the sole benefit of logging in was MC, I said that MC’s provided a log-in value. I will agree with you though, what you made up was silly.

As for resonating slivers, the only thing they accomplish at the moment is adding ~10 copper to recipes that scribes craft. If resonating slivers were removed from the game completely, they would remove one of the smallest gold/material sinks this game has. They do not add to the game in any reasonable manner. They do not help to stabilize any other market; they do not help move gold from those who are rich to those who are not; they do not enrich players’ experience upon receiving one, etc.

Compare that to MC’s. They have their hands in many markets (i.e. their usage in recipes corresponds to many other materials being used). The trading of them at their current price is a decent gold sink. Players who have money will buy them from people who need money, allowing for the spread of wealth. They’re given out in an egalitarian manner and receiving some enriches someone’s play (i.e. they get a material they want or are able to sell it for gold).

Look how long it took them to fix the inflated prices of silk. After close to 2 years they finally introduced more silk drops and the price plummetted. Of course they then went and made leather go through the roof, but we have to expect them to break 4 things to fix one.

Well, you said that “Crashing the MC market would remove the log-in value that they have for those who prefer to sell what they get.” I smiled because you receive an average of 0,66 MC per day. That means around 50s. If diminishing this amount of money will remove the login-value …..

They’re given out in an egalitarian manner….

Thank you for this. I said several times that this is the real problem of the MC but I never found a good form. I think this is the best :-))
This egalitarian concept is the foundation, core and face for the communism. Where the leaders considered that every citizen has the same needs as any other. And we know very well how viable this theory was and how successful the communism was. And now, Mr. J.S is bringing the communism into this game. Still, I can see a huge contradiction here: Several times in several posts I saw players complaining about how hard is to achieve something because of different causes: limited time for playing / diseases impairing the senses/ bad internet connection etc. And the answer from many players was something like: "We are not equals, if you cannot make more time for playing / persuade the Internet Provider to upgrade the lines etc, you cannot have this. Because this is as in the real life – not all the peoples are equals … ". The devs did not fix these aspects, that means they agreed this is the normal situation.
And now we have a complete opposite situation – we are considered equals. The devs. considers that all the players are equals!
One of the two should be false. If the first is false, that means all the complains regarding the lack of egalitarism in the game are true and a lot of things should be removed/fixed/changed.
But if the second is false, that means ANet covers a problem. And I wonder for what reason they do that. Or for who?

Anyhow, this communistic way of acting is the main problem. And like in the real communism we are prevented to supplement our supplies according to the needs. Why? Because the leader knows better than you what you need.

@Wanze.8410: I never said that ANet considered the Resonating Slivers a problem to be solved. I used this example to show that even if the value of one item goes from 75s to few coopers in a short time this is not destroying the TP or the economy.

Comparing a game mechanic to communism?

Cristalyan.5728:

Well, you said that “Crashing the MC market would remove the log-in value that they have for those who prefer to sell what they get.” I smiled because you receive an average of 0,66 MC per day. That means around 50s. If diminishing this amount of money will remove the login-value …..

Rewarding players for logging in is important for MMO’s. It’s why Anet put the reward right in front of you the moment your load into a map. Sometimes you get reward A, sometimes B, but it shows up as a way for Anet to say “thank you.” If the prize is something you could have just bought off of the TP for a few copper, then the value of that reward disappears.

As for the rest of your comment, I’m not sure where it came from or where you’re going with it, but I’m not going on that ride.

So people are now complaining that prices going up due to supply and demand interactions, in a situation where the governing body has declared a preference for allowing free market (ish) forces to run their course, is comparable to communism…?

Ashen.2907:

So people are now complaining that prices going up due to supply and demand interactions, in a situation where the governing body has declared a preference for allowing free market (ish) forces to run their course, is comparable to communism…?

Hey, people will say any kind of ridiculous thing if they think it gets Anet’s attention. Don’t want 1G MC’s? Call it communism … hope you get some McCarthy-istic justice going on.

A better question might be if MCs are too expensive at 1G, what should their price be , and how would that price be determined, and how would the TP be regulated to prevent the MC price from rising above the regulated price?

mauried.5608:

what should their price be , and how would that price be determined, and how would the TP be regulated to prevent the MC price from rising above the regulated price?

Well the last part is easy – drop rates / sources can be manipulated to make them more or less common, which affects the equilibrium price.

As for what their price should be – Mystic Coins fill a particular and important role in the market. They’re a cornerstone alongside gold, karma, and laurels – gold is neither account bound nor time gated, while laurels are both account bound and time gated. Karma is not time gated but account bound, while coins are not account bound but are time gated.

They act as a brake if the faucets of farmable materials are too wide, or a signal of they are too stingy. As they are a time gated buy complementary good, by including coins in a recipe it’s putting an explicit time component into the recipe (so many player-days) and limits the rate they can be made. If mystic coins are worthless, then the set of time gated rewards is too narrow or coins are too abundant; if their price gets too high, it means either the time gates are too stingy or the material spigots are too generous.

As for what their price ‘should’ be? It’s a design parameter with a targeted value that’s a percentage of the total cost. If I was a designer I would aim for around 10% of the total cost of a high end item as mystic coins. If the price of coins is low enough that it’s below 2-3% (and thus an afterthought) I’m concerned that I’m giving out too many or that not enough recipes are using them; if the price goes above 20% I start to worry that too much of the cost is behind time gated materials and not enough behind playing the game.

To that end, Mystic Coins represent around 11-13% of the cost of one of the original legendaries, which I think is perfectly fine. They do however represent around 18% of the cost of an HoT legendary, which I think is pushing up into a range I’d be concerned about. That’s a price range where ‘waiting around for the time gated currency’ is starting to put the brakes on legendary creation, and that’s not a good set of incentives to have in the game.

So to that end I’d be concerned when the price of a Mystic Coin hits around a gold and a half, and my first impression would be to rip some of them out of the costs of HoT legendaries (or at least keep the requirements down on any new legendaries).

Your assuming that legendary weapons should have some kind of regulated price, and so therefore all the ingredients that go into making them should also have a regulated price.
Why should there be any kind of price cap on anything thats sold on the TP, considering that theres nothing whatsoever on the TP thats needed to play the game, or cant be obtained by any player simply by playing the game.
MCs are time gated, but are time gated for everyone, including the players that are selling them on the TP.

Ashen.2907:

So people are now complaining that prices going up due to supply and demand interactions, in a situation where the governing body has declared a preference for allowing free market (ish) forces to run their course, is comparable to communism…?

It’s not a free market when all the supply is government (Anet) controlled.
I still wouldn’t use the “communist” comparison, but there are some similarities.

mauried.5608:

A better question might be if MCs are too expensive at 1G, what should their price be , and how would that price be determined, and how would the TP be regulated to prevent the MC price from rising above the regulated price?

That’s simple. There shouldn’t be a “regulated” price. To achieve that goal, MS’s should be farmable in some way (so, if you find the TP price too high you will still have an option to go out and get them directly). It doesn’t have to be a massive farm like ab multiloot is now for ectos, but some way of getting them that is not capped and does not involve buying from TP should be possible.
Only then can the market self-correct.

Ashen.2907

So people are now complaining that prices going up due to supply and demand interactions, in a situation where the governing body has declared a preference for allowing free market (ish) forces to run their course, is comparable to communism…?

You see, they only declared. In fact, the market is not free – if you cannot understand that a resource handled “in an egalitarian manner” without any other viable method to gather this resource does not make a free market, I cannot help you:-)).
In my opinion a free market is when you can have a resource form several sources. And you can chose between these methods or you can buy from the TP. As an example – did you see so many complains as in the MC case about the T6 materials used in crafting? The materials are not abundant. But you have several sources to have them. And you can work to have them. In the MC case you should wait.
In your opinion it seems that a free market means: The Gouvern gives a charity to any person in the country in a limited quantity. The amount is at the Gouvern decision and the Gouvern states that this must be enough for everyone. Even if the resource may be achieved form other sources, this is forbidden, no other sources others than the Gouvern charity being allowed. Some may sell this charity on the market. Well, this seems to be a free market for you.
They declares something. – free market. But they act different – we keep the MC under strict control. No other sources allowed.
The lie (used in propaganda) was a very used tool in the communistic toolkit. Comrade Joseph Stalin ( J.S ?? ) used this a lot. The lie, I mean.

Obtena.7952

Hey, people will say any kind of ridiculous thing if they think it gets Anet’s attention. Don’t want 1G MC’s? Call it communism … hope you get some McCarthy-istic justice going on.

Well, I never complained about the price of MC. In fact, the price is not important as long it is a result of a free market. I considered an issue the way the MC are handled to the players. Like a charity / subvention / social aid. An no other sources allowed.
Read carefully, please. I never contested the price of the MC but the strictly controlled way the MC enters the game.

Just a curiosity: In your past posts, you acted and voiced as a true defender of capitalism / democracy. How it comes that now you have no problems with communism?

Ensign.2189:

To that end, Mystic Coins represent around 11-13% of the cost of one of the original legendaries, which I think is perfectly fine. They do however represent around 18% of the cost of an HoT legendary, which I think is pushing up into a range I’d be concerned about. That’s a price range where ‘waiting around for the time gated currency’ is starting to put the brakes on legendary creation, and that’s not a good set of incentives to have in the game.

It should be noted though that the ~481 mystic coins you need for the new legendaires might cost you 360g more than compared to a year ago, those additional costs were offset by the diminishing value of amalgamated gemstones over the last 10 months, as the stack of AG will cost you 375g less today. So additional costs for old or new legendaries through higher MC prices cant be an issue atm.

Regarding some other points you made (and i didnt put into the quote):

I dont think MC can be treated as a time-gated material for legendary crafting on an individual basis because you can buy them from the TP.

And for legendary crafting, we should also consider the other faucets for mystic clovers (reward tracks, chest of legendary crafting materials) as a “source” of mystic coins.

Wanze.8410:

Ensign.2189:

To that end, Mystic Coins represent around 11-13% of the cost of one of the original legendaries, which I think is perfectly fine. They do however represent around 18% of the cost of an HoT legendary, which I think is pushing up into a range I’d be concerned about. That’s a price range where ‘waiting around for the time gated currency’ is starting to put the brakes on legendary creation, and that’s not a good set of incentives to have in the game.

It should be noted though that the ~481 mystic coins you need for the new legendaires might cost you 360g more than compared to a year ago, those additional costs were offset by the diminishing value of amalgamated gemstones over the last 10 months, as the stack of AG will cost you 375g less today. So additional costs for old or new legendaries through higher MC prices cant be an issue atm.

Regarding some other points you made (and i didnt put into the quote):

I dont think MC can be treated as a time-gated material for legendary crafting on an individual basis because you can buy them from the TP.

And for legendary crafting, we should also consider the other faucets for mystic clovers (reward tracks, chest of legendary crafting materials) as a “source” of mystic coins.

Regarding amalgamated gemstones: the price will almost certainly start going up quickly after ABML is nerfed. It might not rise too high, it might not get back to where it was 10-12 months ago, but it will almost certainly go up. If for no other reason than fewer people doing the AB meta and hence fewer amalgamated gemstones being obtained from the hero’s choice chests (which AFAIK is the only guaranteed way to get them outside of crafting).

You are right, that specifically for legendary crafting you can “farm” MC by doing reward tracks and getting clovers. However, this only helps you if you are making a legendary, not any of the other ~90 weapons that require MC. If ANet allowed you to use clovers in any and all recipes that require MC then this would help more. Following the same standard of ~1/3 as many clovers needed as MC in the recipes. But as it stands now, this doesn’t generate MC directly so doesn’t really address the problem with MC.