Guild Wars 2

Runiir.6425:

You know, a huge problem in HOT was shown to me a few days ago when a bunch of us were talking about it in a map chat after a successful meta. The reliance of the devs on break bars SEVERELY hampers build diversity to the point they really just need to make any/all attacks effect the break bar to bring back some diverse builds. A lot of the problems in soloing things are 100% the break bar and it is a mechanic completely ignored untill HOT with NO EXPLINATION OF IT ANYWHERE.

Seriously, play through the story of HOT without a single skill on your bars that effects a break bar, or only one skill that isn’t spamable that effects it, and you have a lot of weapon/build combinations people enjoy playing (typically these are the medic builds or pure self survival builds). Now try to solo it all. Emphasis on solo, no bringing in anyone else, ever. I’ve been trying this and, frankly, HOT looks like a giant kick tot he nethers if you despize some of the build changes it forces on you.

If you force people to change builds to fit content, you failed at building your content. Every build should be viable, thus the break bar mechanic is a failure that needs retooled. Seeing as an entire map chat on a meta agreed with this, almost all of us having solod the story and most of the maps, there could very well be something here as to why HOT is so hated. As the vast majority of people despize any reason to alter their build. They built it to suit their gameplay style, there should be no reason to alter it just because of a kitten mechanic.

Every single MMO I’ve ever played has forced people to change builds to clear content, even Guild Wars 1 did. I dare you to take your normal build into Slaver’s Exile in Guild Wars 1 without changing your build.

Builds weren’t made for you take take any random skill you want to succeed. That was never the intended design. They were made to make builds to solve problems. Anyone who thinks one build in this game will do everything they want, probably isn’t familiar with Guild Wars 1.

Guild Wars 1 was called build wars for a reason. They toned it down a lot in this game, but it’s still there…and it should be. Saying I shouldn’t have to change my build is an opinion.

I disagree. Changing your build is how you learn and grow with the game.

Runiir.6425:

You know, a huge problem in HOT was shown to me a few days ago when a bunch of us were talking about it in a map chat after a successful meta. The reliance of the devs on break bars SEVERELY hampers build diversity to the point they really just need to make any/all attacks effect the break bar to bring back some diverse builds. A lot of the problems in soloing things are 100% the break bar and it is a mechanic completely ignored untill HOT with NO EXPLINATION OF IT ANYWHERE.

Seriously, play through the story of HOT without a single skill on your bars that effects a break bar, or only one skill that isn’t spamable that effects it, and you have a lot of weapon/build combinations people enjoy playing (typically these are the medic builds or pure self survival builds). Now try to solo it all. Emphasis on solo, no bringing in anyone else, ever. I’ve been trying this and, frankly, HOT looks like a giant kick tot he nethers if you despize some of the build changes it forces on you.

If you force people to change builds to fit content, you failed at building your content. Every build should be viable, thus the break bar mechanic is a failure that needs retooled. Seeing as an entire map chat on a meta agreed with this, almost all of us having solod the story and most of the maps, there could very well be something here as to why HOT is so hated. As the vast majority of people despize any reason to alter their build. They built it to suit their gameplay style, there should be no reason to alter it just because of a kitten mechanic.

If it required you to make major alterations to your build, then I might agree with you. But can you name a scenario where that is the case? Because I can’t think of any. All of the classes I have experience with so far have CC on their weapon kits and can easily add more simply by swapping a utility or two. This does not drastically alter the basic playstyle of these classes. So what are you talking about?

I don’t think many people here remember how bad definance was. Break bars replaced definance and it was a step in the right direction.

In the old game, CC skills sat unused in PvE altogether. No one every took them. Not sure how anyone thinks that’s good for the game.

Vayne.8563:

I disagree. Changing your build is how you learn and grow with the game.

Lolwut? Dude, it’s a game, not a lifestyle…
Unless you have no other life.

VaLee.5102:

Vayne.8563:

I disagree. Changing your build is how you learn and grow with the game.

Lolwut? Dude, it’s a game, not a lifestyle…
Unless you have no other life.

That’s like saying I play chess and I only use one opening and that’s all I ever use. You grow with any game you play for years. That’s how games work. Any decent game anyway.

You play baseball, you learn more. You find different ways to pitch to people because they figure out what you’re doing. You change it up.

You don’t need to live in a game to what something different after 4 years. Saying that you have to live a game to want to get better at it is pretty much against all gaming logic.

Even Pacman levels got faster and faster, but when they maxed out they made Ms Pacman. Games grow in complexity so they don’t stagnate.

I’m not even sure why this is a discussion.

An mmo lost players after an expansion?! Shocking news! You guys really blew the lid off this scandal.

Maybe what you’re describing and searching for answers to is actually a totally normal situation for a 5 year old mmo to be in. Instead of looking for some solution or seeking to pin blame perhaps just accept that is about what revenues would look like regardless.

NikeEU.7690:

Maybe what you’re describing and searching for answers to is actually a totally normal situation for a 5 year old mmo to be in. Instead of looking for some solution or seeking to pin blame perhaps just accept that is about what revenues would look like regardless.

Trying to find out what moves players to quit or stay with the game by listening to feedback is incredibly pointless if its only natural anyway.

Why strife for something better than normal if you can just play core tyria all day.

It’s not your job, dude. It’s anets job to conduct focus groups and do marketing tests. It’s you job to either play the game or dont. It’s incredibly naive for anyone here to attempt to draw any sort of conclusions about anythjng in game from NC soft quarterlies.

NikeEU.7690:

It’s not your job, dude. It’s anets job to conduct focus groups and do marketing tests. It’s you job to either play the game or dont. It’s incredibly naive for anyone here to attempt to draw any sort of conclusions about anythjng in game from NC soft quarterlies.

So much this!

PS: if any of these people were that good at knowing how to make an MMO profitable and successful, there are plenty of well funded companies absolutely happy to hear your pitch about how you can do better than their current folks at earning them the big $$$

I have to admit the first time I went from Zhaitan to HoT I had to agree it seemed like a huge leap in difficulty, but then I stepped back and did Living World Season 2, which kinda ramps you up to HoT (and makes the story a lot more understandable). After LWS2 I felt more prepared for HoT, and I enjoyed it more as well.

HoT still keeps me on my toes more than central Tyria, but I’ve learned to appreciate that extra challenge.

NikeEU.7690:

It’s not your job, dude. It’s anets job to conduct focus groups and do marketing tests. It’s you job to either play the game or dont. It’s incredibly naive for anyone here to attempt to draw any sort of conclusions about anythjng in game from NC soft quarterlies.

It’s a free forum. If ArenaNet wishes to close this discussion they are free to do so. Its not your job to moderate.

Not that I had any illussions of drawing any meaningful conclusions, btw.

Ashen.2907:

To be honest, you might want to spend some time learning your preferred profession a bit better before moving on to HoT. The content in the core game doesnt really teach you much about playing well. HoT is supposed to be more challenging for play by those who have a better handle on their characters.

If 80 levels doesn’t teach you how to play your class properly then ‘Houston we have a problem’!

morrolan.9608:

Ashen.2907:

To be honest, you might want to spend some time learning your preferred profession a bit better before moving on to HoT. The content in the core game doesnt really teach you much about playing well. HoT is supposed to be more challenging for play by those who have a better handle on their characters.

If 80 levels doesn’t teach you how to play your class properly then ‘Houston we have a problem’!

It teaches you how to play the game if you go through Living Story Season 2, which ramps up in difficulty. The problem is that’s not a free item and a lot of people skip it.

FrizzFreston.5290:

NikeEU.7690:

It’s not your job, dude. It’s anets job to conduct focus groups and do marketing tests. It’s you job to either play the game or dont. It’s incredibly naive for anyone here to attempt to draw any sort of conclusions about anythjng in game from NC soft quarterlies.

It’s a free forum. If ArenaNet wishes to close this discussion they are free to do so. Its not your job to moderate.

Not that I had any illussions of drawing any meaningful conclusions, btw.

I’m not trying to moderate I’m trying to encourage rational discussion. People are making speculative connections to lagging sales by blaming whatever their personal issues with the game are. There is no basis and no discourse worth having.

When one person says “sales are bad because raids because hot zones too hard because wvw because pvp seasons” they aren’t making a legitimate point because they have no data to back that up besides the imaginary dots they connected. Its not me moderating the discussion to point out that they are being silly and making baseless conjecture.

Well, I think most of us were at a concensus that it’s always peoples personal issues that make them choose to spend or not spend money on the game. And thus some of those reasons could very well be significant enough for ArenaNet to change their designs. Without pinpointing specific ones as THE cause or biggest issue as we don’t really have any data.

Seemed fairly rational to me.

Vayne.8563:

Runiir.6425:

You know, a huge problem in HOT was shown to me a few days ago when a bunch of us were talking about it in a map chat after a successful meta. The reliance of the devs on break bars SEVERELY hampers build diversity to the point they really just need to make any/all attacks effect the break bar to bring back some diverse builds. A lot of the problems in soloing things are 100% the break bar and it is a mechanic completely ignored untill HOT with NO EXPLINATION OF IT ANYWHERE.

Seriously, play through the story of HOT without a single skill on your bars that effects a break bar, or only one skill that isn’t spamable that effects it, and you have a lot of weapon/build combinations people enjoy playing (typically these are the medic builds or pure self survival builds). Now try to solo it all. Emphasis on solo, no bringing in anyone else, ever. I’ve been trying this and, frankly, HOT looks like a giant kick tot he nethers if you despize some of the build changes it forces on you.

If you force people to change builds to fit content, you failed at building your content. Every build should be viable, thus the break bar mechanic is a failure that needs retooled. Seeing as an entire map chat on a meta agreed with this, almost all of us having solod the story and most of the maps, there could very well be something here as to why HOT is so hated. As the vast majority of people despize any reason to alter their build. They built it to suit their gameplay style, there should be no reason to alter it just because of a kitten mechanic.

Every single MMO I’ve ever played has forced people to change builds to clear content, even Guild Wars 1 did. I dare you to take your normal build into Slaver’s Exile in Guild Wars 1 without changing your build.

Builds weren’t made for you take take any random skill you want to succeed. That was never the intended design. They were made to make builds to solve problems. Anyone who thinks one build in this game will do everything they want, probably isn’t familiar with Guild Wars 1.

Guild Wars 1 was called build wars for a reason. They toned it down a lot in this game, but it’s still there…and it should be. Saying I shouldn’t have to change my build is an opinion.

I disagree. Changing your build is how you learn and grow with the game.

You choose GW1, when the devs themselves routinely said THIS game would not be like the old one. You said you played many MMOs yet failed to ever use one that wasn’t GW1…which the devs themselves said they would not build this game to be like that one. The actual tag line for GW2, and it is STILL used in their promotional material is to “play your way” not their way. In otherwords, you were not supposed to be forced to change your build to fit with specific content.
I mean seriously, you didn’t consider it anoying in GW1 to change your build several times a run? I sure did. I played it for PvP though so didn’t need to shift my build much personally.

Try a different one. How often did you change your Ranger build in DAoC? You know, the premier and highest ranked RvR game of all time? The Chanters of Aion? Tanks in literally almost every game ever?
Traditionally you changed your equipment to match things, NOT your build in MMOs. Your build was your build, and traditionally cost you serious coin to change. Thus you changed your gear to change your defenses. This has been industry standard for a long time, most people coming tot he game expect it to stay.

Now you say to change your gear. Now, if breakbars never go anywhere or change…how will weapons that do not effect the breakbars ever become viable? They won’t. This limits build viability which is a bad direction to go in a game you still advertise as “play your way”.

morrolan.9608:

Ashen.2907:

To be honest, you might want to spend some time learning your preferred profession a bit better before moving on to HoT. The content in the core game doesnt really teach you much about playing well. HoT is supposed to be more challenging for play by those who have a better handle on their characters.

If 80 levels doesn’t teach you how to play your class properly then ‘Houston we have a problem’!

I disagree, to an extent.

Pre-endgame leveling, in any game, doesn’t necessarily teach you how to perform at your fullest potential. That comes with practice and experience while operating in the new, more challenging environment.

Ashen.2907:

morrolan.9608:

Ashen.2907:

To be honest, you might want to spend some time learning your preferred profession a bit better before moving on to HoT. The content in the core game doesnt really teach you much about playing well. HoT is supposed to be more challenging for play by those who have a better handle on their characters.

If 80 levels doesn’t teach you how to play your class properly then ‘Houston we have a problem’!

I disagree, to an extent.

Pre-endgame leveling, in any game, doesn’t necessarily teach you how to perform at your fullest potential. That comes with practice and experience while operating in the new, more challenging environment.

Living season 2 helps with this learning curve, but most new people won’t ever do it. Or even see it as an option due to how it is tucked away or requires an additional purchase for them.

Runiir.6425:

Ashen.2907:

morrolan.9608:

Ashen.2907:

To be honest, you might want to spend some time learning your preferred profession a bit better before moving on to HoT. The content in the core game doesnt really teach you much about playing well. HoT is supposed to be more challenging for play by those who have a better handle on their characters.

If 80 levels doesn’t teach you how to play your class properly then ‘Houston we have a problem’!

I disagree, to an extent.

Pre-endgame leveling, in any game, doesn’t necessarily teach you how to perform at your fullest potential. That comes with practice and experience while operating in the new, more challenging environment.

Living season 2 helps with this learning curve, but most new people won’t ever do it. Or even see it as an option due to how it is tucked away or requires an additional purchase for them.

Agreed.

Runiir.6425:

Vayne.8563:

Runiir.6425:

snip

Seriously, play through the story of HOT without a single skill on your bars that effects a break bar, or only one skill that isn’t spamable that effects it, and you have a lot of weapon/build combinations people enjoy playing (typically these are the medic builds or pure self survival builds). Now try to solo it all. Emphasis on solo, no bringing in anyone else, ever. I’ve been trying this and, frankly, HOT looks like a giant kick tot he nethers if you despize some of the build changes it forces on you.

If you force people to change builds to fit content, you failed at building your content. Every build should be viable, thus the break bar mechanic is a failure that needs retooled. Seeing as an entire map chat on a meta agreed with this, almost all of us having solod the story and most of the maps, there could very well be something here as to why HOT is so hated. As the vast majority of people despize any reason to alter their build. They built it to suit their gameplay style, there should be no reason to alter it just because of a kitten mechanic.

Every single MMO I’ve ever played has forced people to change builds to clear content, even Guild Wars 1 did. I dare you to take your normal build into Slaver’s Exile in Guild Wars 1 without changing your build.

Builds weren’t made for you take take any random skill you want to succeed. That was never the intended design. They were made to make builds to solve problems. Anyone who thinks one build in this game will do everything they want, probably isn’t familiar with Guild Wars 1.

Guild Wars 1 was called build wars for a reason. They toned it down a lot in this game, but it’s still there…and it should be. Saying I shouldn’t have to change my build is an opinion.

I disagree. Changing your build is how you learn and grow with the game.

You choose GW1, when the devs themselves routinely said THIS game would not be like the old one. You said you played many MMOs yet failed to ever use one that wasn’t GW1…which the devs themselves said they would not build this game to be like that one. The actual tag line for GW2, and it is STILL used in their promotional material is to “play your way” not their way. In otherwords, you were not supposed to be forced to change your build to fit with specific content.
I mean seriously, you didn’t consider it anoying in GW1 to change your build several times a run? I sure did. I played it for PvP though so didn’t need to shift my build much personally.

Try a different one. How often did you change your Ranger build in DAoC? You know, the premier and highest ranked RvR game of all time? The Chanters of Aion? Tanks in literally almost every game ever?
Traditionally you changed your equipment to match things, NOT your build in MMOs. Your build was your build, and traditionally cost you serious coin to change. Thus you changed your gear to change your defenses. This has been industry standard for a long time, most people coming tot he game expect it to stay.

Now you say to change your gear. Now, if breakbars never go anywhere or change…how will weapons that do not effect the breakbars ever become viable? They won’t. This limits build viability which is a bad direction to go in a game you still advertise as “play your way”.

Actually the devs said that this game will take everything you love about Guild Wars 1 and put it in a persistent world.

The actual play your way comment which is often misquoted, was used to refer to how you level. To some degree they undid this with mastery and they’ve been slowly fixing it. It wasn’t meant to say that every single thing in the game would be beatable by every build. That wasn’t even true in the core game. When the game came out. you still needed to change your build for certain content. Trying to take play your way as meaning I never have to change my build is a huge stretch.

I’d like you to show me where the devs actually said they wanted to build a game completely different from Guild Wars 1. I saw them say we wanted to make a game with the same sensibilities as Guild Wars 1 but the code was too old and the way it was set up we couldn’t do what they want.

You can’t only count the quotes you want to try to make your point. The devs, in the early days, did talk about builds and characters and how you could change up your builds on the fly, even between bosses. Now why would they do that if that wouldn’t sometimes be necessary?

“If 80 levels doesn’t teach you how to play your class properly then ‘Houston we have a problem’!”

Define properly in this case. I’ve leveled all classes, except Mesmer the right way through Tyria. But that doesn’t help me in some personal story instances or at certain open world areas if no matter where I dodge I’m swarmed by red circles or mobbed to death. Did I get better in any way overall? Maybe. In a mouse-clicking, keyboard-turning way lol. I still die more often than before on some classes. That’s not meant as QQing here, mind you.

“It wasn’t meant to say that every single thing in the game would be beatable by every build. That wasn’t even true in the core game.”
True but according to most of the self-proclaimed pro-gamer community here the “consensus” is “Everything works in Open World PvE” which is one of the least helpful phrases ever, at least if you are solo playing from time to time.

Change your whole build?

On my warrior, I change 1 utility, my elite and take hammer/mace-shield instead of GS.
Takes only 5 seconds and can hardly be considered changing my whole build. Sure, every crapmob having a breakbar is a PITA, but what gives? One can either learn to handle that problem or leave it be.

Seems to me the real problem is getting used to steamrolling everything with even the crapiest setup/build and then realizing that there is actually more than “Press 1 to win”. And then finally, failing to adapt. But that’s just my humble opinion, because I was totally in the same boat, but at some point, I left it.

I finally quit over changes made to the game. Vanilla GW2 was one of the best games I ever played, but by the time it got to Dry Top it had totally transformed into a platformer obscura with the added joy of annoying mobs haunting you while you are out to youtube to figure out what to do next.

It’s amazing how far this game has gotten from the good ideas it launched with. Currently I’m playing legion and enjoying it—so far, no platforming! I will always keep tabs on GW and look for movement away from the current game conception.

Plautze.6290:

Change your whole build?
Sure, every crapmob having a breakbar is a PITA, but what gives? One can either learn to handle that problem or leave it be.

There, of course, is another option. When being served kitten on a platter, you can always choose to send it back.

I have no knowledge of what was supposed to be good about GW1, I played it for one weekend last year, and it was sooo slow and the graphics seemed like the 1990’s were gonna call and ask for their graphics back.

You can pretty much just ignore the majority of breakbars in solo content. Hell I didn’t even know what they were for a while and I got by just fine without adjusting my build to give me more of them.

slashlizardy.9167:

I have no knowledge of what was supposed to be good about GW1, I played it for one weekend last year, and it was sooo slow and the graphics seemed like the 1990’s were gonna call and ask for their graphics back.

I can’t speak for everyone, but the original GW as a game made me think about things. In order to beat quests, missions, do vanquishing, do Elite content, I had to think carefully about builds, party composition, positioning, analyzing mob behavior (e.g., patrol patterns so as to avoid over-aggro) and skill synergy. I greatly enjoy that type of game.

GW2 has not — for the most part — made me think to the same degree, especially with regard to thinking about how I play. GW2 challenges for me are more about: are my twitch reflexes good enough to get off a dodge or block; can I pick out tells amidst the sea of particle effects; and is the spreadsheet I have to use to keep track of whether I have enough of 14 different materials to make that thing i want? I enjoy this type of game a lot less.

As to the graphics, I found GW’s to be better than its contemporary, WoW. I know Blizz updated character appearance in WoW after I stopped playing. ANet essentially put GW on life support over ten years ago, so it has not received any graphics updates.

Anyway, that’s one person’s take on why GW was a good game.

I loved the complexity of builds with GW2, It was the best coorpg and had its roots fimly in npc party based RGP – a step up from Baldurs gate et al.

GW2 was a very different beast, it aimed at the mmorpg market butoffered a very different take on the genre, a nod to the horizontal progression in GW1 in an open world without the foul gear race that was well covered with other games. Talented artists and devs to boot.

Overall HoT has – for me – quite a few annoying issues, even though I can safely ignore the parts not affecting me (like raids, fractals, ascendents, legendaries). Some of the story achievements are simply kittened. Act II Leave it to me (klilling the mordrem veteran wolf alone in rabbit form). Or the Chak Killer one in Act III: Not that bad, but annoying, especially if Braham, instead of reviving you, had decided to wait with the others for you. Thank you Braham >_<. I want to slap the developer who decided it was a good idea to give a Chak also a defense-reducing acid attack and knock-down potential. Again, more annyoing than “hard.”
Or that the mastery hunt is still as tedious as in the beginning. I guess it depends on the event chain/magnitude, but 20k exp for 2.5 Million required experience is not fun. Only Diablo 3’s Pragon level grind feels worse. BUT that may just be me.

On the other hand, depending on the class I’ve come to survive better against the kitten frogs and the more dangerous mordrems. Even though I like some build diversity (i.e powers or condi), I found myself mostly with Condi builds as the exotic BLTP gear is quite a kitteneaper than berserker (or the seldom valkyrie) equivalents. As I’ve never played that much, I obviously don’t have tons of karma for the Orr zerker karma merchants, but that shouldn’t come across as a complaint.

I skip playing Tangled Depths entirely, don’t even bother trying. Then I find life in GW2 is much more enjoyable.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

OP, you might try Dry Top and The Silverwastes (and/or Living World Season 2) before venturing on to the Heart of Thorns maps. That might prepare you a bit more for the increased difficulties.

Good luck.

Well said! The difficulty is far more gradual when you do it that way. The difficulty is not too bad when you factor in that its tuned for veteran players. There is plenty to do in game that should get you “ready” for the content. If you’re having trouble, ask! There are tons of players here and in game that will help you.

I agree quite a bit with the topicstarter. HoT isn’t solo-player friendly. I’ve been one-shotted way too many times. (Cloth-armor class)

I’ve had more fun in the living world episodes after HoT release (which have been absolutely wonderful) than the actual expansion.

Still, for group play HoT has been nice.

I’m a story first kind of player and typically solo content. HoT was fun for me story-wise but a royal pain for some of the missions. Hearts and Minds was supremely annoying to me soloing as a ranger. Season 3 is categorically harder, especially the last boss fight to date. Died prolly 12 times, no exaggeration. Used at least 2 repair canisters to get through it.

I like the co-op feel of open world content in HoT and S3 maps when enough people are there to help, but I wonder if I’ll ever map all of DS due to the low player population nearly every time I log on. I may never be able to complete the meta achievements or earn the rewards I need for a legendary because of Dragons Stand and Tangled Depths.

It would be easier to get PUGs and crowded meta events if Anet could incite new interest in these maps. I think soloing content feels easier when you know you can join a PUG as an option.

AzureWolf.9150:

I have to admit the first time I went from Zhaitan to HoT I had to agree it seemed like a huge leap in difficulty, but then I stepped back and did Living World Season 2, which kinda ramps you up to HoT (and makes the story a lot more understandable). After LWS2 I felt more prepared for HoT, and I enjoyed it more as well.

HoT still keeps me on my toes more than central Tyria, but I’ve learned to appreciate that extra challenge.

This. This right here. I found HoT hugely frustrating when I first got there, a fresh faced lvl 80 daredevil just come from zhaitan. . . and promptly got stomped and reduced to hiding in zergs to try and continue my story. So i quit playing HoT. I switched to pvp, experimented with my class, covered the rest of tyria for map completion, played through LWS2, did some WvW.

Then i returned to HoT, and now. . . the other day I found myself in Tangled Depths, in an area I’ve never found before, after mob jumping and getting kills, stealth gliding my way past the chak, dropping hundreds of feet from a glide into kitten in the ground to fight through those mobs that used to be so hard. . . to find myself thinking “Wow, what a kittening pretty map this is.”

Point being, I used to hate the HoT maps too, but now I love them. They are a great step up once tyria has started feeling like godmode, and they are incredibly detailed, beautiful map design to boot. It just takes a while to see it.

Agree with the OP, RUN! Run run RUN! Far far away from this game. The old game is long gone, run while you still can. If you stick with it, you won’t find what you want. So its good that you decided to throw in the towel. Recommend others who feel the same way as the OP do the same.

I’ve done all the map exploration in the game for HOT…..and made an Hot legendary which means I’ve grinded the new zones over and over.
HoT: you start it and ur like wtf is this this map is insanely all over the place nonsense, you grind it out and force urself to figure out everything, you get about 2 hours of joy out of verdant brink after you udnerstand it, then you get bored of it completely and utterly since its so easy to complete the meta to t4 and all that….it becomes a really really boring grind full of stupid pve events that are way too long (build a million tents…..plant a million bombs…..collect a million scraps). The other maps its the same thing basically….although they are all significantly more boring that verdant brink. Tangled depths is insane….honestly there is no real reason to explore everything in it cause there aren’t any super hard bosses or enemies there to take down. Its just adds all over the place in a maze…..with no real rewards outside of mastery points. The dragons stand is a horrid meta….it really is. One giant meta map that is just done really badly imo. Its a farmfest…you spam 1 in a group (if you get into a map) for 1-2 hours and thats that. There isn’t really any inticing armour or weapon skins or fashion war stuff to get out of it…its just salvaging yellows for ecto’s spam like in auric basin.

T;DR: When you finally start to understand and like the news zone….is the moment you start to get bored of them. And then there’s literally nothing to do..cause they make the zones so noob friendly. The LS zones are nicer but they are twice as noob friendly as teh hot ones….so same problem only gets worse. And raids are supposed to be teh solution? Don’t make me laugh. in raids you have to follow a specific set of instructions to fight a boss or you all just spontaneously die all the time. Its stupid. Why can’t there just be a giant fight zone where even the best players in teh game can fight and get wiped fair and square if they aren’t careful, and the harder you fight the more loot you get. Why is that so hard?

Aurelian Omenkind.2470:

I’m a story first kind of player and typically solo content. HoT was fun for me story-wise but a royal pain for some of the missions. Hearts and Minds was supremely annoying to me soloing as a ranger. Season 3 is categorically harder, especially the last boss fight to date. Died prolly 12 times, no exaggeration. Used at least 2 repair canisters to get through it.

I like the co-op feel of open world content in HoT and S3 maps when enough people are there to help, but I wonder if I’ll ever map all of DS due to the low player population nearly every time I log on. I may never be able to complete the meta achievements or earn the rewards I need for a legendary because of Dragons Stand and Tangled Depths.

It would be easier to get PUGs and crowded meta events if Anet could incite new interest in these maps. I think soloing content feels easier when you know you can join a PUG as an option.

Just FYI, DS is almost always running at least one full map. The problem is that people who join it know that they’re in it until the end. The result is that the map fills up quickly at the start and very few people ever leave. So if you attempt to join at any other point in the cycle, the map you want to join will be full and you will instead find yourself on an empty overflow map.

Try entering the zone a few minutes prior to the reset and checking LFG for a DS group forming. There is almost no reason to be there if you aren’t running the meta, so this is probably the most reliable HoT map in that sense. You should have better luck completing the map this way.

Cerby.1069:

Why can’t there just be a giant fight zone where even the best players in teh game can fight and get wiped fair and square if they aren’t careful, and the harder you fight the more loot you get. Why is that so hard?

It’s hard because the only reason this game exists is because it appeals to many people that DON’T want this. It’s a business consideration that gets in the way of highly capable players desires. It can’t be ignored because :

1) the percentage of highly capable players that stick with an MMO is MUCH lower than the percentage of average or low capable players that stick with an MMO … their expectations are just much easier to meet.
2) the number of games that appeals to highly capable players is already pretty crowded and Anet probably couldn’t compete in that market if they tried. GW2 is their experiment; thankfully it’s an experiment that has worked so far. They dipped their toe in that ‘harder’ water; it was too hot for them.

Cerby.1069:

Its a farmfest…you spam 1 in a group (if you get into a map) for 1-2 hours and thats that.

Keep in mind that normal group events are balanced for 3+ and brining more only makes it easier, as scaling wasn’t designed to keep up the challenge. Unfortunately, GW2 doesn’t reward you for playing at the normal difficulty; they actually do the opposite and increase the rewards for casually zerging, which is the flaw of tag-based personal loot.

Healix.5819:

Cerby.1069:

Its a farmfest…you spam 1 in a group (if you get into a map) for 1-2 hours and thats that.

Keep in mind that normal group events are balanced for 3+ and brining more only makes it easier, as scaling wasn’t designed to keep up the challenge. Unfortunately, GW2 doesn’t reward you for playing at the normal difficulty; they actually do the opposite and increase the rewards for casually zerging, which is the flaw of tag-based personal loot.

True, and this is made even worse by what scaling there is, coupled with the AoE readily available to most professions. More people means more mobs, AoE means more tags means more drops. In a way, though, this does dovetail with an incremental reward system designed to require a lot of mats to make anything really desirable. Add in that several statements by Mike O’Brien over the years indicate that a design goal was to bring lots of players together to accomplish open-world objectives.

What’s missing, as Healix points out, is a more robust scale-up. That, too, may be by design. As more people congregate, the odds are that some of them are not going to be in the top half of the distribution with regard to player skill. Truly hard open world events would probably result in those players getting downed over and over and not having a good time.

HoT was a disaster. Personally, I didn’t have any issues with soloing and the flying is cool. But the overall design and the grind sucks. GW2 before HoT was a much better game.

slashlizardy.9167:

I have no knowledge of what was supposed to be good about GW1, I played it for one weekend last year, and it was sooo slow and the graphics seemed like the 1990’s were gonna call and ask for their graphics back.

I can’t tell if you’re joking or trolling or just plain ignorant, but GW1 wasn’t even in the same genre as GW2. It was released in 2005, a year after World of Warcraft, so was probably being developed in the ‘90s or at least the very early part of the 21st century. It was a co-op RPG, definitely not an MMO. Whether or not you enjoyed it was completely up to you, but you’re comment about 1990’s graphics made me laugh.

MelGT.8326:

slashlizardy.9167:

I have no knowledge of what was supposed to be good about GW1, I played it for one weekend last year, and it was sooo slow and the graphics seemed like the 1990’s were gonna call and ask for their graphics back.

I can’t tell if you’re joking or trolling or just plain ignorant, but GW1 wasn’t even in the same genre as GW2. It was released in 2005, a year after World of Warcraft, so was probably being developed in the ‘90s or at least the very early part of the 21st century. It was a co-op RPG, definitely not an MMO. Whether or not you enjoyed it was completely up to you, but you’re comment about 1990’s graphics made me laugh.

Ha! But I was being serious. I had never played an mmo before, so my prior experience with graphics before gw2 and that one weekend with gw1, is from games like Mass Effects and Crysis. I do enjoy the graphics from GW2 but when I went back to look at GW1 my eyes wanted to bleed….thusly, I only stayed in it for one weekend.

Grim West.3194:

HoT was a disaster. Personally, I didn’t have any issues with soloing and the flying is cool. But the overall design and the grind sucks. GW2 before HoT was a much better game.

Meh. HoT got me back into the game. Also, the new maps are actually brilliant. Yes, a lot of stuff is locked behind mastery unlocks and it takes some time to get them. After you do, however, they are really easy to navigate and a lot of fun to play.

HOT completely ruined the game for me, I played the game from beta and have literally played every day since launch. But now I just play for dailies and on occasion do fractals with friends. The game should be called cc wars now, condition wars w/e. I used to love my war, getting in the mix, hitting stuff with a axe or gs. But with HOT that was taken away, now things like mobs in bloodstone fen that hit you from 3 miles away, or mesmer mobs in dorlic lake that drop 30 circles when they do their gs attack. My problem is when a light armor class like a necro has more survivability than a heavy armor class, you also introduce a healer class. Why not introduce a HA tank class with true taunts or better survival skills? I loved this game when it came out, but now I have unfortunately drifted away.

Darcwolf.6817:

HOT completely ruined the game for me, I played the game from beta and have literally played every day since launch. But now I just play for dailies and on occasion do fractals with friends. The game should be called cc wars now, condition wars w/e. I used to love my war, getting in the mix, hitting stuff with a axe or gs. But with HOT that was taken away, now things like mobs in bloodstone fen that hit you from 3 miles away, or mesmer mobs in dorlic lake that drop 30 circles when they do their gs attack. My problem is when a light armor class like a necro has more survivability than a heavy armor class, you also introduce a healer class. Why not introduce a HA tank class with true taunts or better survival skills? I loved this game when it came out, but now I have unfortunately drifted away.

Hot was just rushed out unfinished, even the elementalist elite profession didn’t have an elite skill a few weeks before the launch, they just stuck some aura and stats change on a premade visual effect instead of making something cool.

It’s hard to fix something that hits so far off the mark. It’s better to start anew, so they started on a new expansion pack and cancelled the unfinished part of HoT and released the rest as LS3. This explains why we get these nice explorable maps with no content in them besides some enemies to farm.

Xillllix.3485:

Darcwolf.6817:

HOT completely ruined the game for me, I played the game from beta and have literally played every day since launch. But now I just play for dailies and on occasion do fractals with friends. The game should be called cc wars now, condition wars w/e. I used to love my war, getting in the mix, hitting stuff with a axe or gs. But with HOT that was taken away, now things like mobs in bloodstone fen that hit you from 3 miles away, or mesmer mobs in dorlic lake that drop 30 circles when they do their gs attack. My problem is when a light armor class like a necro has more survivability than a heavy armor class, you also introduce a healer class. Why not introduce a HA tank class with true taunts or better survival skills? I loved this game when it came out, but now I have unfortunately drifted away.

Hot was just rushed out unfinished, even the elementalist elite profession didn’t have an elite skill a few weeks before the launch, they just stuck some aura and stats change on a premade visual effect instead of making something cool.

It’s hard to fix something that hits so far off the mark. It’s better to start anew, so they started on a new expansion pack and cancelled the unfinished part of HoT and released the rest as LS3. This explains why we get these nice explorable maps with no content in them besides some enemies to farm.

I would love to know that architecture that allows you to just ‘stick some aura’ (and overloads i assume) in 2 weeks

Xillllix.3485:

Darcwolf.6817:

HOT completely ruined the game for me, I played the game from beta and have literally played every day since launch. But now I just play for dailies and on occasion do fractals with friends. The game should be called cc wars now, condition wars w/e. I used to love my war, getting in the mix, hitting stuff with a axe or gs. But with HOT that was taken away, now things like mobs in bloodstone fen that hit you from 3 miles away, or mesmer mobs in dorlic lake that drop 30 circles when they do their gs attack. My problem is when a light armor class like a necro has more survivability than a heavy armor class, you also introduce a healer class. Why not introduce a HA tank class with true taunts or better survival skills? I loved this game when it came out, but now I have unfortunately drifted away.

Hot was just rushed out unfinished, even the elementalist elite profession didn’t have an elite skill a few weeks before the launch, they just stuck some aura and stats change on a premade visual effect instead of making something cool.

It’s hard to fix something that hits so far off the mark. It’s better to start anew, so they started on a new expansion pack and cancelled the unfinished part of HoT and released the rest as LS3. This explains why we get these nice explorable maps with no content in them besides some enemies to farm.

Don’t tell false facts. The idea was always to have a Living Story. The ele had his elite long time ago.

But you are right about rushed content. It’s just too little for the price of 50€.

ProtoGunner.4953:

Xillllix.3485:

Darcwolf.6817:

HOT completely ruined the game for me, I played the game from beta and have literally played every day since launch. But now I just play for dailies and on occasion do fractals with friends. The game should be called cc wars now, condition wars w/e. I used to love my war, getting in the mix, hitting stuff with a axe or gs. But with HOT that was taken away, now things like mobs in bloodstone fen that hit you from 3 miles away, or mesmer mobs in dorlic lake that drop 30 circles when they do their gs attack. My problem is when a light armor class like a necro has more survivability than a heavy armor class, you also introduce a healer class. Why not introduce a HA tank class with true taunts or better survival skills? I loved this game when it came out, but now I have unfortunately drifted away.

Hot was just rushed out unfinished, even the elementalist elite profession didn’t have an elite skill a few weeks before the launch, they just stuck some aura and stats change on a premade visual effect instead of making something cool.

It’s hard to fix something that hits so far off the mark. It’s better to start anew, so they started on a new expansion pack and cancelled the unfinished part of HoT and released the rest as LS3. This explains why we get these nice explorable maps with no content in them besides some enemies to farm.

Don’t tell false facts. The ele had his elite long time ago.

I don’t think you know. I was beta testing HoT. They canned the HoT elementalist elite skill in the last beta trial because all the testers complained it didn’t do anything at all and it was bugged on top of it. They started over a new one just before the release. It was completely rushed our and that’s why it’s kitten.

Xillllix.3485:

ProtoGunner.4953:

Xillllix.3485:

Darcwolf.6817:

HOT completely ruined the game for me, I played the game from beta and have literally played every day since launch. But now I just play for dailies and on occasion do fractals with friends. The game should be called cc wars now, condition wars w/e. I used to love my war, getting in the mix, hitting stuff with a axe or gs. But with HOT that was taken away, now things like mobs in bloodstone fen that hit you from 3 miles away, or mesmer mobs in dorlic lake that drop 30 circles when they do their gs attack. My problem is when a light armor class like a necro has more survivability than a heavy armor class, you also introduce a healer class. Why not introduce a HA tank class with true taunts or better survival skills? I loved this game when it came out, but now I have unfortunately drifted away.

Hot was just rushed out unfinished, even the elementalist elite profession didn’t have an elite skill a few weeks before the launch, they just stuck some aura and stats change on a premade visual effect instead of making something cool.

It’s hard to fix something that hits so far off the mark. It’s better to start anew, so they started on a new expansion pack and cancelled the unfinished part of HoT and released the rest as LS3. This explains why we get these nice explorable maps with no content in them besides some enemies to farm.

Don’t tell false facts. The ele had his elite long time ago.

I don’t think you know. I was beta testing HoT. They canned the HoT elementalist elite skill in the last beta trial because all the testers complained it didn’t do anything at all and it was bugged on top of it. They started over a new one just before the release. It was completely rushed our and that’s why it’s kitten.

Hm, I also beta tested it, but you are right, it was 25% skill reduction for the party for use of the next skill.

hot ruined the game for me too… i played 2.2k hours (i know not a lot) of the original, didn’t mind farming dungeons even when they nerfed them. then they released hot, bought it, the content was too hard to be soloed (im not a pro, so if you comment "i can solo everything idk why you can’t lol l2p, noob etc, like some of the people on the forum are, i know im not good at the game) then to top it all people stopped playing on my guilds so and i ended up playing alone trying to reach max hot lvls (161 mastery was back then) which i gave up because it was too much farming and too much time invested on zones i didn’t enjoy and still to this day find very boring and hard to play in. it’s really sad because i used to buy gems (not a lot, but i bought at least 300$ pre hot, without the base game) and was so saddened to know that the game i loved to play changed for the “hardcore” people. worst of all was the raids, it seemed like only that content was being developed at the time so i ended up quitting because i got tired of dying a lot. not to mention the legendary journey for HOPE which i struggled a lot, all the gold farm for nothing because i couldnt get the max mastery level. idk, the game was incredible in my opinion, in my mind it was perfect, i didn’t care to repeat dungeons everyday, it was fun. but the mastery system, seeing those metas that were impossible to make unless you had in mind every single minute of the day just to join a (possibly good, most likely failure) map, and seeing all the new gold sinks made me feel disgusted. now thankfully i found another game that i feel wants me to be happy, instead of what seemed to only look for a small portion of the player base that defended the company from even a small incinuation of a complain.

im happier now that i left, havent post in months, but i just wanted to say the reason in case my opinion as a customer matters a bit (i know it doesn’t because im not a customer anymore, i was casual, i was bad and it seems like everyone thinks the game is great outside of this post).

well goodbye

and no, i wont give you my gear or my gold because i used it all on hope which i didnt even got. but at least im at 0 and i played a lot, so i guess that was nice. i’ll allways miss the original and beatufil gw2.

can’t believe how much i still hate hot