Guild Wars 2

Pandaman.4758:

ANet can do this with the Largos (human body type) and Kodan (norn bodytype), but Tengu would require far more work than that.

Tengu in GW2 have charr body.
Armor not so big problem.

5-6 new full size maps require more work.
ANet didnt do any new full map from initial release (2,5 years)
New objects, new quests. This require really hard work.

BigWhiteShogun.2591:

How do you feel about it, it’ve always been one of my favourite things in a huge expansions. This possibility to play a new race, with visiting totally new capitol and researching new racial stuff etc. etc. It kind of make me sad to thinking Heart of Thornes ain’t gonna deliver it to us. I mean if they had it planned why wouldn’t they showed it to us in a first place.

I am quite happy actually. I hope they go further and remove all traces of Norn and Asura from the game as well.

Duke Darkwood.4237:

The biggest problem with introducing a new race is that they would have absolutely no way to work them into the original campaign against Zhaitan.

I’m not sure that’s a necessary condition for introducing a new race. The GW1 expansions demonstrated that it’s viable to have an abbreviated starter story for new characters that dovetails only into the new campaign (where the existing characters join the story). And as you’ve pointed out, merely making the older content available can be done via methods that don’t require continuity (i.e. the “play a historical event” model.)

If continuity was really that much of an issue, it’s something that the introduction of the Revenant profession would have to deal with already, since Rytlock is ostensibly the first Revenant based on what was said at PAX.

I do agree that the cost for implementing a new race significantly outweighs the value proposition though. Unlike other MMOs, your character race in GW2 influences the gameplay to a fairly trivial degree (jumping puzzles aside); it’s largely for aesthetics and flavor.

On the aesthetics side of things, a new race increases the incremental cost for a lot of the revenue generating content (i.e. gem store items like new face/hairstyle options, armor skins, outfits etc.). I don’t think it’s insurmountable; a lot of the armors can probably be tweaked parametrically and just won’t look good, and they already use the Charr skeletal model for animations. But given the existing state of the Charr (clipping issues abound, lowest player base relative to other races), ANet probably doesn’t have a strong incentive to invest in yet another PC race with similar issues.

Alas, my macaw Tengu Mesmer will likely continue to remain a pipe dream.

Imagine the light armor on tengu….OH and all the trench coats!

To be honest I’m not sure why anyone was even hoping for a new race to be introduced. I certainly wasn’t expecting anything or even considering that Anet would ever add one. That’s just not what they do with the Guild Wars franchise.

Mind you they did add multiple races for GW2 itself, but you have to remember all of those races had prior setup all the way back to GW1, hence their presence in this game due to the build up from a slew of stories throughout nearly the entirety of the game.

Pretty much every other race, aside from the Tengu, has a much too widespread diversity of tribes. They don’t have some sort of central government or leadership like the races we can play now that they all congregate under.

Quite a number of the races people want to be playable, specifically Tengu, don’t make a lick of sense. They are more reserved, they prefer to be left out of everything else and think only for their own people. Granted there is the -one- Tengu that helps create weapons for The Pact but…that’s it. They are described as isolationists for a reason.

Not to mention if you want the Kodan they aren’t going to just suddenly decide to help out with the rest of the races outside of a few instances where a small tribe lends its aid. If they were going to lend the strength of their entire race to the larger kingdoms of Tyria then they would have done so when they first fled Jormag nearly over a century ago when he awoke.

So I know people want it but I don’t see it in the cards so early on. Anet actually likes their content to be lore friendly and have some sense of context and build up rather than just throwing it in there like a nonathletic fat kid throwing a baseball into the woods.

“I want to do this but idfk how or why.”

And mind you GW1 basically pumped out “expansions” like they were firing off a full-auto AR until EOTN. I think it’s reasonable that, maybe, they should take things just a tad slower this time. Although I do think the Living Story updates need a bit more content within them to keep them engaging so I, and others, don’t end up just blowing through it all in a week or less. Except for the Silverwastes, that’s still relatively interesting if not a bit tedious and I think they should expand on the concept they had for it. And I just…went way off track. I’ll stop.

Alexgoll.6378:

Pandaman.4758:

ANet can do this with the Largos (human body type) and Kodan (norn bodytype), but Tengu would require far more work than that.

Tengu in GW2 have charr body.
Armor not so big problem.

5-6 new full size maps require more work.
ANet didnt do any new full map from initial release (2,5 years)
New objects, new quests. This require really hard work.

Yep, and as we all know, if it takes more than the minimum amount of effort, ANet won’t do it.

Pandaman.4758:

Problem with that is if you run through the LS S2 with the new race, it will frequently refer to you as the commander of the pact who took down Zhaitan.

I can make a Charr right now and run through Season 2 and they refer to Scarlet and my endeavors against her but never played Season 1. I guess I should not be able to play new characters then either? And what about the new profession? A-Net said the first Rev was Rytlock, yet we all are able to roll one the day of the expansion, pretty sure Zhaitan will be around then… but wait, didn’t Rytlock become this new class AFTER Zhaitan was felled? Guess we should block the new classes from that personal story too, then, huh?

I understand your concern, but that is hardly ground to stand on. Who’s to say the newer races would not receive a personal story anew akin with the expansion they come in? Cannot say it is really THAT hard to become slightly more creative than shoehorning in new races into older boxes.

I am too sad we ain’t getting a new race (preferable Tengu) but still I guess it make sence why there isn’t any since Anet would want us to replayed the story when a new character is made instead of jumping into the fray. Remember the expansion can be bought by a complete newbie and not a veteran.

So dissapointed that there is no new race and I sooo wanted a necro tengu

Duke Darkwood.4237:

The biggest problem with introducing a new race is that they would have absolutely no way to work them into the original campaign against Zhaitan.

You’re forgetting that any new race doesn’t have to have the same story as the original compaign. Anet could easily focus on them creating their settlement and how they experienced the world defeating zhaitan and scarlet (without helping them), everyone being friendly with dragon minions (sylvari), how mordy was bothering them and set them to have a play in the next expansion/Season 3 (and so have them skip season1/2 and maybe make their personal story longer to compansate). As soon as the pact shows up in the Living World you pretend like you aren’t even part of an order anymore (Even in season 2 my ‘order of whispers’ character goes to the priory for help instead of diving in his own ‘secret’ books :/ )

And as far as the armor goes, they share the ‘char’ skeleton. And no anet doesn’t care about any kind of ‘clipping’ (otherwise the char and asura wouldn’t have so many issues).

I don’t care about Tengus nor any other new race. Don’t take me wrong, it woud be nice, especially since they are a non primate-like race. However, a new race is in no way a game changer, it is more akin to changing your armor skin, and I therefore prefer new game mechanics to a new skin.

I find it a bit of a shame as well, as someone who always loves seeing new races and such, even if I don’t really play alts, but I wasn’t really surprised. Nothing really quite felt right with where they’re taking things right now. As much as I’ve been waiting for Tengu, they definitely didn’t feel right to introduce right now. Centaur was the only thing that really would have fit I think, and I would love to see have seem them tackle that challenge (and I really think they could), but obviously it wasn’t to be.

Thinking about it though, I think new races will be saved for a different kind of expansion, if you know what I mean. Heart of Thorns seems a lot like Eye of the North. Now, Guild Wars 2 already does enough things differently that I don’t mean this literally, but I think we might see more Campaign-like expansions in the future, and that’s where races will be introduced.

Imagine, for example, an expansion that adds Tengu. When you create a Tengu and choose your backstory, you get a whole new Personal Story. Even after you’re done with the backstory stuff, you get thrown into a new plot, about Cantha or the Deep Sea Dragon or Primordus or whatever.

But, like Guild Wars 1, when you finish your backstory stuff, you also get directed to a guy who wants to introduce you to Tyria proper. That quest puts you on a boat or something that gets attacked by Risen ships, and at the end, you get approached by the three orders and they ask for your help against Zhaitan, and then you pick up the Zhaitan plot from there. Likewise, the existing races, after they do their backstory, can get directed to the new story.

The timeline wouldn’t be perfect, but it wasn’t in Guild Wars 1 either. Just put a little disclaimer, and I think you have a really great way of bringing new races in that does as little damage to the timeline as possible while still leaving all the content open and giving the new races a feel that’s properly distinct for them.

I don’t even understand where all this ‘Tengu – new race’ madness comes from.

@Raddra.5014, Tengu has nothing to do with the story yet. As for.. “New civilization” and “new allies”. Who knows, maybe we get one :-) most likely not. Im fine with that.

I really hope that when we go to fight Bubbles, the water Elder Dragon, that the Largos will become a playable race. We know so little about them, and that makes them the perfect candidate for a new playable race.

Honestly not that broken up about it. Maybe if it was Skritt, I find those little bugger hilarious. But Tengu just annoy me. The less I see of those the better.
A race takes time to add, not just the racial models and everything itself. But also the zones and a capitol city and such, quests, personal story (first part is unique per race). So that’s a lot of work.

I’m definitely disappointed that Tengu isn’t coming with HoT, but there’s always next time.

I think that I’m only disappointed because I really want their area of the map to stop being blurry. Drives me nuts. LOL

I’m fine with it, this expansion is meant to give some building blocks for the future of gw2 in new skill/abilities and such. It also includes enough new content to suck you into exploring the building blocks for the future..
Of course they could have sent a new race in being a race with the Revenant in its history. maybe Rytlock would have somehow ended up in the middle of the jungle learning from this new race and be included.

But I am expecting a new race to come in the future maybe when we finally make contact with distant lands would be the easiest method to including them into Tyria.

I’ve seen more than a few people here and especially in-game saying new races don’t matter since they’re purely cosmetic. For the sake of this argument, let’s pretend that’s true (it’s not).

I wonder how many of the people taking such a stance have used a transmutation charge to change the appearance of their weapon? I wonder how many have used a dye to change the color of their armor? How many of them have spent money or gold to purchase a new weapon or armor skin from the gem shop? I’m wiling to bet most of them take more than a few seconds in the character creation screen when they make a new character. And I’ll bet they’re eager to see what the new Legendary weapons look like.

The point is this. In a game whose endgame is mostly horizontal progression, cosmetics become more than just aesthetics. They cease to be the paint job on the bus and become part of the journey and destination. Whether or not it’s worth the resources is one thing, but to pretend new races don’t matter because they’re just cosmetic differences (they’re so much more) is a rather silly argument against the inclusion of new races.

Alexgoll.6378:

ANet didnt do any new full map from initial release (2,5 years)

Not true. We have two new full maps(zones). They were just released over time.

I think that ArenaNet will do a new race in the future. However I do not feel it will happen in a expansion but a new campaign. I feel at this time they do not think that the game is ready for this. Perhaps after Heart of Thorns they will. Perhaps the expansion will tell them if splitting the player-base will really happen and if the game can survive with a new campaign.

anzenketh.3759:

Alexgoll.6378:

ANet didnt do any new full map from initial release (2,5 years)

Not true. We have two new full maps(zones). They were just released over time.

I think that ArenaNet will do a new race in the future. However I do not feel it will happen in a expansion but a new campaign.

Southsun, Dry Tops and Silverwaste not full maps.
New race require minimum four maps such Timberlake or Malachor with much more complexity. Plus capital.

But I hope to see new race in the future, may be through new campaigns.
Kodan in Far Shiverpeaks my favourites.
Tengu not interesting for me (and their struggle against karka and risen), and I dont believe that Anet make Largos playable – lore issues make very difficult to implement them.

kodan are the most likely, as their personal story could be written into the campaign against Jormag. They likely would be restricted from ‘story mode’ dungeons, but could play explorable mode to maintain lore.

I can also see tengu being written, but not in Tyria (continent), i imagine playable tengu as a member of a hidden pocket in Cantha and having a struggle against the emperor and, in order to get help, would work with the pact to defeat bubbles to secure their aid. (canthan campaign commander) [yes a stretch, but better than what we have]

I think the Koran would not be the new race, as they are very limited on appearance. Tengu have much more potential. Color of the feathers and feathery hairstyles for example. Lore-wise they would also work as they are not a race we take pity on and help out in the stories. I wish we could play them in the expansion pack but as many pointed out, they don’t fight into the first campaign as well. It would take a total rewrite. I think a new campaign expansion would be when we get it. Unfortunately that may take years. However, I still stand with Tengu as the next playable race, if we get one. It makes the most sense cosmetically to a very cosmetic game.

anzenketh.3759:

Alexgoll.6378:

ANet didnt do any new full map from initial release (2,5 years)

Not true. We have two new full maps(zones). They were just released over time.

The three permanent maps added to the game since launch have a combined area of that of a normal map. Hell, look at Silverwaste and Dry Top. The two maps combined are only about 2/3rds the size of the neighboring Brisban Wildlands. That’s hardly what I would consider a “full map”.

VOTE FOR KODAN NEW RACE

Screw tengu and kodan I want to be a living stone dwarf
We got plant people why you be racist against the stone people anet =)

They can add new race but it need to be outsiders with no Zhaitan story so they can fit the current lore.

Sorry for the necro but in regards to peoples concerns about them being incorporated into the Zhiatan campaign. There is always the option to not include them still and just have them come out from behind their wall after the assault on Lions Arc, it was on their door step and the invention of airships makes their wall kinda pointless anyway.

They could simply play a role in HoT and future expansions.

It is very easy to incorporate the Tengu or any other “new” not present in the pact or original story line.
For example lets take the Tengu, although they hid behind walls Arena net can introduce the story that a few rebelled against the majority and left the walls to help the fight against Zhaitan.
Like this it will be easy to explain why the race isn’t seen fighting with the pact. It could be explained that some rebels/renegades left their homelands and came forth to answer the call.

Also as far as the Dwarfs why not have the story state that some got sucked into the swirling pool time traveling them into the story line right from the Hall of monuments.

:)

Duke Darkwood.4237:

The biggest problem with introducing a new race is that they would have absolutely no way to work them into the original campaign against Zhaitan. This actually goes double for Tengu, who were staying behind their walls during that time. We see no Tengu units in the Pact, at all, either. (I think we worked with one Tengu smith, but I do not believe he actually joined the Pact, just did some work with Beigarth and someone else for them.)

So we would be making a race that can’t do the entire base campaign. Or, if they can, it would have some disclaimer message, like early missions in the GW1 campaigns. “This mission is a reenactment of events that took place before the Tengu stopped hiding behind a wall.” (I might have a bit of a sore spot when it comes to the Tengu, ever since the Battle for Lion’s Arch. Talon would be ashamed of his kindred if he knew how they behaved.) However, my personal feelings do not invalidate the main point that they categorically did not take part in the Zhaitan Campaign.

Who cares if they didn’t take part int the Zhaitan Campaign. Well, you do obviously but i mean…. I don’t care Lore, shmore, pfffff… introduce the Tengu! Yes they were hiding behind their wall all those years and did nothing. Now (for some unknown reason – dev’s go wild here) SOME OF THEM are venturing out. BAM! that can be your lore, start there. EASY!!!! to introduce them imo.

ah wait, i see your point heh. well…

Mostl likely if we were to get a new race it won’t happen until the 3rd Xpac. and if it did happen in HoT it could still be Tengu. The personal story of the campaign against Zhaitan wouldn’t exist. The dev’s will/ would have to design an entirely different story arc for them. What they did during those years behind the wall and presumably not all were in agreement with staying hidden, if now they are venturing out (think “The Maze Runner” maybe? hehe). Anyways… It’s possible, but probably wasn’t on the minds of anet to do for the Hot Xpac.

Alexgoll.6378:

Pandaman.4758:

ANet can do this with the Largos (human body type) and Kodan (norn bodytype), but Tengu would require far more work than that.

Tengu in GW2 have charr body.
Armor not so big problem.

5-6 new full size maps require more work.
ANet didnt do any new full map from initial release (2,5 years)
New objects, new quests. This require really hard work.

I believe after the initial release they introduce “South Sun Cove” in November 2012, so either it was meant to be released with gw2 in October or they had time to work on more maps and just haven’t bothered since?

Guys. This thread is a YEAR OLD. Make a new one.

@Cruel Seriously man? How far back did you go to necro this kitten? You could have just made a new thread to discuss the issue instead of bringing this thing back form the grave. This is past rotting even the bones are dust.

ooh your right someone bumped it well its still relevant if peeps talking about it, who cares when it was created. Making another separate thread will just spread out the mess. Keep it contained imo.

I don’t see the point on making new thread on the same themes, when the old threads are still relevant or interesting. Keeping old info at hand keeps people from repeating themselves again and again…