Guild Wars 2

This is what I have been hearing lately: ‘No! Taunt is terrible and will have NO effect on anything and anyone who thinks trinity might come is a fool! No! This is impossible, no way it is happening at all! Options are terrible!’
Oh how open minded people are. They haven’t seen ANYTHING except a brief description with almost no details, and call it garbage. Also people are afraid of options:“This can’t be! It’s the end of the world! Options, there is and always will be only one way.”
Now, I’m not saying I like trinity, but options are good. Without options, it is just as bad as “go do this a couple hours” MMOs, but at least you can fight a different way in those. Yes, you NEED some things, but EVERYONE in a group doing the same thing, different details… I can understand one to three dmg dealers, but Anet, you have made yourself diverse in quests and so on, but pls bring some diversity and equality to builds for all modes. I know you have been working on this, and I acknowledge it, but this needs to be fixed sometime. This being said, I have confidence this is in the “challenging content” including some of these balances.

Ps:
Making bosses more deadly will cause diversity, as long as they aren’t nerfed. By the way, more deadly does NOT mean more life.

“Options are good. There’s not only one way to do things guys! That’s why I believe Anet needs to ‘fix’ their game by implementing forced roles like every other MMO ever has done.”

What a silly, contradictory thought process… :/

Did I say that, no. I said you need some things, but that is true in every game. But this could just be miscommunication. In this game, damage is necessary. Therefore, if I were saying nothing should be forced, I would be saying that damage should not be needed. Another thing needed in a game, is diversity. That is a permanent goal, like damage. But the diversity is the means in achieving the goal. Like I also said, if you increase the mobs attack, without any other gain to the players, or loss in life by the mob, you force them into a no all attack system, for if they do, they die. I’m not a dev, so I don’t make proportions. You also said that diversity contradicts going with other MMOs. It shouldn’t be exactly the same, and while I can’t think of a difference, I’m sure they can make one. My question is, would rather a ice cream shop serve only banana strawberry blast, or a lot of original flavors?

I’ll use your icecream analogy and compare it to GW2 and other trinity based MMO’s:

In trinity based MMO’s you can build for damage, tanking or healing. Three flavours of icecream.

In GW2, you can build for damage, tanking (while not in the tradition sense you can make tough builds), support, control and utility. Then you can mix them all up and make effective hybrid builds. More than 3 flavours of icecream.

There is, and has been for a long time, a misconception that you only need damage in GW2. But need is not what makes GW2’s system better than the trinity system. The thing that makes GW2’s soft trinity better than the traditional trinity is that you do not HAVE to have certain roles in order to do the content. While a damage focused team may be able to clear a dungeon faster, they may not do so well in a conquest match. Different content in GW2 has different effective builds. But at the end of the day, you CAN take ANY build into ANY content and succeed. While in most traditional trinity MMO’s, if you don’t have a healer or tank, you fail. GW2 has opened the doors to many more role options than the old trinity system, and it allows you to play your way without that feeling of ‘we will fail because X role is not filled’.

Many people are still struggling to see this. They think that because damage focused builds can be more effective in many situations, GW2 has only one role. But this is completely wrong. Actually, no, it is completely right. GW2 does only have one role: Your role. Whatever build you take is irrelivant, its YOUR ability to tackle the content that matters not the role you build for. And that is a much better system in my opinion.

Rin.1046:

I’ll use your icecream analogy and compare it to GW2 and other trinity based MMO’s:

In trinity based MMO’s you can build for damage, tanking or healing. Three flavours of icecream.

In GW2, you can build for damage, tanking (while not in the tradition sense you can make tough builds), support, control and utility. Then you can mix them all up and make effective hybrid builds. More than 3 flavours of icecream.

There is, and has been for a long time, a misconception that you only need damage in GW2. But need is not what makes GW2’s system better than the trinity system. The thing that makes GW2’s soft trinity better than the traditional trinity is that you do not HAVE to have certain roles in order to do the content. While a damage focused team may be able to clear a dungeon faster, they may not do so well in a conquest match. Different content in GW2 has different effective builds. But at the end of the day, you CAN take ANY build into ANY content and succeed. While in most traditional trinity MMO’s, if you don’t have a healer or tank, you fail. GW2 has opened the doors to many more role options than the old trinity system, and it allows you to play your way without that feeling of ‘we will fail because X role is not filled’.

Many people are still struggling to see this. They think that because damage focused builds can be more effective in many situations, GW2 has only one role. But this is completely wrong. Actually, no, it is completely right. GW2 does only have one role: Your role. Whatever build you take is irrelivant, its YOUR ability to tackle the content that matters not the role you build for. And that is a much better system in my opinion.

r u talking about gw2? try to join a dungeon party with a full healer, full tank, full controll or full condi, and write it, then count 3,2,1 kicked…
put a reflection, mor fury/might share in a berserker build/gear doesent mean have different flavaurs of icecream, but have the same chocolate with a different name…

Btw you have your idea, i have mine, imho there is no trinity but dps only, your opinion is different to mine, doesent care, as i wrote in another topic, have different option allow you to play game we already have and other ppl who dont like only chocolate is the key, so everyone play what they want

“DPS only” would be true if that were the only way to play the content. As it is, lots of people have this idea that, in order to maximise their “profit” or whatever they play this game for (not fun, it seems), they absolutely need to play full berserker, and everyone else must, too.
That is not true. You can play the content with any build you like (the better planned it is, the faster and easier it is, but I’d say it’s never impossible, no matter how noob-ish your build is). The game really is “play how you want”, because aside from agony resistance in Fractals, there’s no area of the game where you truly need anything to complete it. You could run Arah in white gear if you’d like.

If you join a zerker group advertised as such, tell them you play a support ele, and then get kicked, well, that’s kinda your own fault? It’s kittenty if zerker only groups don’t write that in the description, though, and if that’s the case, it’s kitten behaviour to kick people who join and don’t magically know that they aren’t wanted because they’re not full zerker [insert class here]. The solution is clear advertising in LFG, so everyone knows where to join. I keep saying this: Advertise your own groups the way you want to play, and there will be plenty of people looking for the same experience.

That said, I really hope HoT gives us modes and events where full zerker is not just less than ideal, but will earn you a swift kick to the backside. Condi-heavy bosses, maybe, that make water eles more useful, or events where you need to kite, making GS warriors pretty much useless. If players have to adapt and move away from full zerker always and everywhere, maybe they stop insisting everyone has to play like that or gtfo.

Lian Olsam.9541:

r u talking about gw2? try to join a dungeon party with a full healer, full tank, full controll or full condi, and write it, then count 3,2,1 kicked…
put a reflection, mor fury/might share in a berserker build/gear doesent mean have different flavaurs of icecream, but have the same chocolate with a different name…

Btw you have your idea, i have mine, imho there is no trinity but dps only, your opinion is different to mine, doesent care, as i wrote in another topic, have different option allow you to play game we already have and other ppl who dont like only chocolate is the key, so everyone play what they want

Yes I’m obviously talking about GW2, what game have you been playing? I don’t join pug groups for dungeons, because half of them haven’t a clue. I join guild or friend groups, and yes we succeed when we run builds focused on support or tanky type builds. If people want speed runs, then let them. I play for the fun and the challenge, not the ‘I must get gold quickly’. I play whatever build I feel fits or whatever I am in the mood for, and guess what, we succeed. We don’t NEED to all be damage to succeed, and that is the point I am trying to make.

I am not talking about the most efficient way to farm dungeons, thats for the gold addicts. I don’t play the game for the gold, I play it for the activities, the combat, the challenge.

And when I say GW2 has more flavours, I am not talking about gear, boons or skills. I’m talking about what roles you can fill. In GW2 you have their soft trinity: damage, control and support (similar to the traditional trinity), but what makes GW2’s soft trinity different is that you can mix and match to make effective hybrids, much better than you could in traditional trinity MMO’s.

As to your opinion being different to mine, that’s a pretty obvious statement and somewhat pointless, and not the point of this thread. The point is the OP is saying there are no options in GW2, and I am pointing out that if you think that you are not really seeing the full potential of the system.

Yes, you can run most content with a damage build, but you can also run most content with a support build or a tanky build or a control build. And more importantly you can have any combination of those roles in a group and still successfully complete content, which is something you cannot do in the traditional trinity system. Therefore, you DO have more options, because you are not restricted to set roles, its just you and others have chosen to ignore that.

I th8nk OP are talking about OPTIMAL options, and i m talking about that too, ofc you can also go inside a dungeon and kill every mob, but alot of ppl find this pointless… why shoudld i stay 30 min in a path if i can do it in 10 min? If someone, like you, have fun and dont care of that, i m really happy, cause u can enjoy the content, but me, and not only me, cant kitten my brain doing something i feel pointless

Lian Olsam.9541:

I th8nk OP are talking about OPTIMAL options, and i m talking about that too, ofc you can also go inside a dungeon and kill every mob, but alot of ppl find this pointless… why shoudld i stay 30 min in a path if i can do it in 10 min? If someone, like you, have fun and dont care of that, i m really happy, cause u can enjoy the content, but me, and not only me, cant kitten my brain doing something i feel pointless

No, what you’re talking about is FASTEST option. If you are doing a speed run for a challenge then fine, you have the option to spec for damage and mob skipping. If you want to fight every mob and do a complete dungeon clear you have the option to spec for more support and survivability. You and the OP are talking like speed running is the only option, and it simply is not the case. Many people play for many different reasons, and GW2 gives you the options to play the way you want. The old trinity did not. You NEEDED to have a healer and tank in order to finish a raid/dungeon. It wasn’t an option, it was compulsory if you wanted a chance of success, let alone if you wanted to speed run it.

Like I said, if you choose to ignore the other options and only focus on speed run builds, then that is your problem not a problem with the game.

Lian Olsam.9541:

I th8nk OP are talking about OPTIMAL options, and i m talking about that too, ofc you can also go inside a dungeon and kill every mob, but alot of ppl find this pointless… why shoudld i stay 30 min in a path if i can do it in 10 min? If someone, like you, have fun and dont care of that, i m really happy, cause u can enjoy the content, but me, and not only me, cant kitten my brain doing something i feel pointless

Maybe you should read the OP again it say without options you might aswell go kill there for a couple of hours
So options being good, no options being bad.
Follow me so far?

In two and a half years of gaming gw2 I have never ran berserker and my warrior have never wielded a 2h sword and im still doing all the content and having fun playing.
If you no longer having fun instead needing to skip and cheese your way through content then maybe you should find something that you have fun in again mate.

Taunt be good, veerii good! I can see more skyhammer farm in the future. When will the people from arenanet finally realize that this map is doing harm to spvp…?

l2p before QQ.

Moo.3408:

Ps:
Making bosses more deadly will cause diversity, as long as they aren’t nerfed. By the way, more deadly does NOT mean more life.

nor does it mean more one-shot skills, for the record.

they need more aggressive AI. do that, and the rest will fall in place (going by how PvP and WvW both require lots of support and defense and control on top of having the glassy DPS people).

Artemis Thuras.8795:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0HNyu0Pw8Q

l2p before QQ.

Yeah, I watched that and said that doesn’t REALLY count. Sure blind might be a detail, but really, they all focus on dps mostly.

BrunoBRS.5178:

Moo.3408:

Ps:
Making bosses more deadly will cause diversity, as long as they aren’t nerfed. By the way, more deadly does NOT mean more life.

nor does it mean more one-shot skills, for the record.

they need more aggressive AI. do that, and the rest will fall in place (going by how PvP and WvW both require lots of support and defense and control on top of having the glassy DPS people).

Especially lots of quick attacks with lots of cc(increasing tank, support, condi dm, cc effectivity) no more build ups(which would make dps and cc stronger)

Really though, I was running Arah for the last few weeks on my warrior to get the awesome set. I thought to myself, hey, maybe I can bring out the shield, some nice banners and go be the tanky boon kind of guy, that’ll probably help a lot. Brought a lot of disables, too with mace/shield + longbow for special encounters and tar elemental. Crafted exotic gear with +power, +thoughness and +vitality, skilled accordingly.

Nope, it didn’t work out. Every path was a major chore because mobs didn’t go down as fast as it was needed, resulting in massive group damage. Lupi? still being a major pain in the kitten , still one-shotting me with my 26k health and absurd amounts of armour. The only thing that kept me alive were the utility skills, and those aren’t necessarely tied to my decision to go tank, I could pick them with zerker and would be just fine as well.

So after about 10 runs I switched to my zerker ele. My god Arah was a cake walk all of the sudden. Lupi still kittening with me but whatever, he’s nearly impossible anyway, especially when you have bad luck with being downed and him deciding to fire a whole barrage of missiles onto your position. Or when he puts you into that poison/shadow dome 3 times in a row.

Next experiment will be a healer, maybe engi or my ele. If that fails, too, I call diversity in gw2 PvE total bullkitten. Because as it stands now your only real choice is to play damage, one way or the other. It doesn’t have to be pure damage, but it has to be damage. And no, “being able” to do content in a certain way is not a real argument when it turns out to be a chore. That’s like saying “hey I can still ride my bycicle when I chop off one of my arms and one of my legs”.

Hmm.7902:

Really though, I was running Arah for the last few weeks on my warrior to get the awesome set. I thought to myself, hey, maybe I can bring out the shield, some nice banners and go be the tanky boon kind of guy, that’ll probably help a lot. Brought a lot of disables, too with mace/shield + longbow for special encounters and tar elemental. Crafted exotic gear with +power, +thoughness and +vitality, skilled accordingly.

Nope, it didn’t work out. Every path was a major chore because mobs didn’t go down as fast as it was needed, resulting in massive group damage. Lupi? still being a major pain in the kitten , still one-shotting me with my 26k health and absurd amounts of armour. The only thing that kept me alive were the utility skills, and those aren’t necessarely tied to my decision to go tank, I could pick them with zerker and would be just fine as well.

So after about 10 runs I switched to my zerker ele. My god Arah was a cake walk all of the sudden. Lupi still kittening with me but whatever, he’s nearly impossible anyway, especially when you have bad luck with being downed and him deciding to fire a whole barrage of missiles onto your position. Or when he puts you into that poison/shadow dome 3 times in a row.

Next experiment will be a healer, maybe engi or my ele. If that fails, too, I call diversity in gw2 PvE total bullkitten. Because as it stands now your only real choice is to play damage, one way or the other. It doesn’t have to be pure damage, but it has to be damage. And no, “being able” to do content in a certain way is not a real argument when it turns out to be a chore. That’s like saying “hey I can still ride my bycicle when I chop off one of my arms and one of my legs”.

You do less damage and qq when it take longer?
Ofcourse it takes longer the point is you can still do it. clearly a l2p issue

Rin.1046:

I’ll use your icecream analogy and compare it to GW2 and other trinity based MMO’s:

In trinity based MMO’s you can build for damage, tanking or healing. Three flavours of icecream.

In GW2, you can build for damage, tanking (while not in the tradition sense you can make tough builds), support, control and utility. Then you can mix them all up and make effective hybrid builds. More than 3 flavours of icecream.

There is, and has been for a long time, a misconception that you only need damage in GW2. But need is not what makes GW2’s system better than the trinity system. The thing that makes GW2’s soft trinity better than the traditional trinity is that you do not HAVE to have certain roles in order to do the content. While a damage focused team may be able to clear a dungeon faster, they may not do so well in a conquest match. Different content in GW2 has different effective builds. But at the end of the day, you CAN take ANY build into ANY content and succeed. While in most traditional trinity MMO’s, if you don’t have a healer or tank, you fail. GW2 has opened the doors to many more role options than the old trinity system, and it allows you to play your way without that feeling of ‘we will fail because X role is not filled’.

Many people are still struggling to see this. They think that because damage focused builds can be more effective in many situations, GW2 has only one role. But this is completely wrong. Actually, no, it is completely right. GW2 does only have one role: Your role. Whatever build you take is irrelivant, its YOUR ability to tackle the content that matters not the role you build for. And that is a much better system in my opinion.

To sum it up, the game is so easy it literally doesn’t matter what you play.

That’s a horrible gameplay model. People play zerker because of all the viable options (every build) it is the best for time efficiency. In a void, if someone could clear a dungeon in 5 minutes or 35 minutes, people will trend towards the quicker run.

Just because something is viable doesn’t mean you should use it.

Linken.6345:

You do less damage and qq when it take longer?
Ofcourse it takes longer the point is you can still do it. clearly a l2p issue

And clearly, you didn’t get the point of my post. So instead of blabbering l2p l2p everytime someone has the slightest issue with the status quo you should start improving your reading comprehension.

Here, I’ll write it out for you in an easy to understand language:

You no skill at least 4 points in power trait, you no good in dungeon.

I play warrior, tank. Need 3 hours to clear path instead of 30 minutes. Baaaaad.

It doesn’t make sense the vast majority of the time to invest 6 points in one of the defensive branches. Skilling anything that isn’t at least “supportive damage” will make you suffer through hours of trash clearing and three-digit damage numbers.

The thing is I don’t get anything back for skilling super defensive. Investing more time should go hand in hand with advantages (pure) damage builds shouldn’t have, yet there are none, since mobs deal that much damage anyway, and my survival isn’t tied to my attribute bonuses most of the time and rather to my utility skills that I could use with a damage build, too, making defensive builds obsolete.

Because no one is willing to invest exorbitant amounts of extra time without getting any real advantage over damage builds, and they are right to do so. Which gets me back to my analogy at the end of my first post: Are you really saying that I should chop of an arm and a leg voluntarely because hey, I’m still able to ride the bycicle with one of each?

There will always be the best way at doing things. It doesn’t only affect Gw, MMO or video games. In real life too there’s always a best way at doing something.

Guild Wars 2 has been clearly stated to not have a holy trinity on almost every site that talked about it, if you came to the game expecting it, that’s your fault.

Loving how people are pretending there are no diversity issues in PvE.

Fashion Mage.3712:

Loving how people are pretending there are no diversity issues in PvE.

Some people can only see that…

PvE is very, very easy = you can use anything you want and eventually succeed.

And don’t see that…

There is a single best solution for everything = we lack variety.

Worse, they mention the first statement as if it were a good thing; ideally, PvE wouldn’t be so mind-crushing easy, and we wouldn’t have a system in which the same option is the best option everywhere.

I wouldn’t say it is only that the single best solution, but the fact that the game’s reward systems are not exactly in a good play I clearly recall the first time a Nercomancer friend of mine and I were playing after the megaserver went live, before this (at our usual playtime) we would not encounter may people and occasionally we would duo/solo the champion troll (mostly seeing what worked what didn’t and just messing with mechanic) So the first experience she had with the FG train was being one of many players that was at the event from the beginning, but due to lower burst damage (I think she was running a hybrid build at the time) she recieved gold credit for the event, but no drops at all.

Moo.3408:

Artemis Thuras.8795:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0HNyu0Pw8Q

l2p before QQ.

Yeah, I watched that and said that doesn’t REALLY count. Sure blind might be a detail, but really, they all focus on dps mostly.

Then I recommend you go watch it again.

Test.8734:

Fashion Mage.3712:

Loving how people are pretending there are no diversity issues in PvE.

Some people can only see that…

PvE is very, very easy = you can use anything you want and eventually succeed.

And don’t see that…

There is a single best solution for everything = we lack variety.

Worse, they mention the first statement as if it were a good thing; ideally, PvE wouldn’t be so mind-crushing easy, and we wouldn’t have a system in which the same option is the best option everywhere.

Then, you have people who say it needs to be harder. And I think, if it gets harder by increasing damage done by monsters and increasing casting speed and cc, you won’t be able to use all zerker team, and this is what I call diversity. Also, if you count rolls in gw2, it would be: condi, support, dps, tank, cc. Then you mix 2 into a build, making it a total of 10 rolls to play, clearly not trinity. This excludes specializations, essentially that would make 15 (not yet)rolls. If all these together (or a mixture of them) on a team would be more efficient on a team than five zerkers, the it is diverse(pls don’t take that literally and say, 4 zerkers it is).

Rin.1046:

Lian Olsam.9541:

I th8nk OP are talking about OPTIMAL options, and i m talking about that too, ofc you can also go inside a dungeon and kill every mob, but alot of ppl find this pointless… why shoudld i stay 30 min in a path if i can do it in 10 min? If someone, like you, have fun and dont care of that, i m really happy, cause u can enjoy the content, but me, and not only me, cant kitten my brain doing something i feel pointless

No, what you’re talking about is FASTEST option. If you are doing a speed run for a challenge then fine, you have the option to spec for damage and mob skipping. If you want to fight every mob and do a complete dungeon clear you have the option to spec for more support and survivability. You and the OP are talking like speed running is the only option, and it simply is not the case. Many people play for many different reasons, and GW2 gives you the options to play the way you want. The old trinity did not. You NEEDED to have a healer and tank in order to finish a raid/dungeon. It wasn’t an option, it was compulsory if you wanted a chance of success, let alone if you wanted to speed run it.

Like I said, if you choose to ignore the other options and only focus on speed run builds, then that is your problem not a problem with the game.

Rin, you have a misconception and I don’t agree with your argument. There is a difference skipping mobs that don’t need to be cleared in order to not spend all day in the dungeon for nothing versus actual speed runs.

Many none-zerker groups still skip trash because they are, well…, trash (no challenge, no fun & time consuming). Then there are slow and fast runs based on player skills & builds. That’s it.

Speed runs are actually planned to the finest detail in order to optimize for every second you get off your clear time. Builds, engagement location, mob pulls, stealth, etc. The people that actually attempt speed runs spend hours doing the same path over and over tweaking their builds and group composition as well as tactics. Speed runners actually spend more time doing the path than a very slow group doing it once for fun.

Speed running =/= fast runs

And again, no matter what content anet dishes out, you will always have to kill mobs, it is only logical to build around dishing out as much damage as you can while still having a viable build that can give just enough support to the team.
Tanking in this game does 2 things, makes encounters longer and you eventually die or your party dies leaving only you up and you get wrecked again.

For some reason people stick to the thought of how trinity works and try to emulate the feeling with their builds. It just doesn’t work. GW2 is a system based on balance. When they say support, control, it really does not mean no damage in your build. You, as the player, have to find a playstyle that suits you while working on your build to synergize with the/a group.

There is build diversity in guild wars 2, even for dungeons. People have solo’d arah naked, it can’t get any more diverse than that.

Miku Lawrence.6329:

There will always be the best way at doing things. It doesn’t only affect Gw, MMO or video games. In real life too there’s always a best way at doing something.

I agree, and the reason why zerker is king of PvE right now is because after almost 3 years of the same dungeons and really easy open world content (since anet doesn’t want to make something too hard in open world for the sake of accessibility) most people know the content by heart, know all the enemy mechanics that are used, etc. It is normal that people become more and more efficient at the encounters.

My PvE character is zerker and i’ve run with non-zerker groups for fun (ps: i’m not the only one, just that we won’t go telling the group “hey! zerker here!”) When you get to know the mechanics so well after so much time, you get to know when to use a dodge, when to use blocks, reflects, safest times to burst damage, etc.

Zerker wont be king of the new content at first in HoT, but it will come back (as much as possible) when people learn the encounters and come up with meta strategies.

Ather path is a prime example. When they first brought it, many would not dare go in as zerkers and now that people know the path better, you see a lot more people wearing zerker gear doing it.

Lifestealer.4910:

There is build diversity in guild wars 2, even for dungeons. People have solo’d arah naked, it can’t get any more diverse than that.

Well, I think they technically still had their traits which is the major part of the build.

LostBalloon.6423:

Lifestealer.4910:

There is build diversity in guild wars 2, even for dungeons. People have solo’d arah naked, it can’t get any more diverse than that.

Well, I think they technically still had their traits which is the major part of the build.

So why are we speaking of Berzerker gear?

Don’t ask me, you could have zerker gear on and be super tanky because of your traits and skill selection. (ex: shout-heal warrior) Of course, PVT will enhance the build’s tankyness but will lose some dps.

Your trait selection is your main build, then you fine tune it with (or make it viable) with gear stats and rune selection.

Zerker builds are mainly traited for dps optimisations and the gear used only enhances the dps output.

Really, I just think people use gear to talk because it makes the discussion easier. Someone wearing zerker gear usually aims for a high dps and glassier build.

Moo.3408:

Then, you have people who say it needs to be harder. And I think, if it gets harder by increasing damage done by monsters and increasing casting speed and cc, you won’t be able to use all zerker team

lol.
Zerkers can already get one shotted by many foes (especially the light/medium classes).
You want tankier gear/trait selections to be 1shotted also?

AND you think this will stop people running full glass cannon teams?

Go and reflect on this a while..

I think the Silverwastes was designed pretty nicely for build diversity, I hope the expansion PvE content is more like that.

Artemis Thuras.8795:

Moo.3408:

Then, you have people who say it needs to be harder. And I think, if it gets harder by increasing damage done by monsters and increasing casting speed and cc, you won’t be able to use all zerker team

lol.
Zerkers can already get one shotted by many foes (especially the light/medium classes).
You want tankier gear/trait selections to be 1shotted also?

AND you think this will stop people running full glass cannon teams?

Go and reflect on this a while..

If you look at my earlier posts, I agreed with less one shots. I meant the bosses that don’t do as much damage and the trash mobs. Maybe decrease the damage on the one shots, but do two times the attacks. I also said lots of cc, and look at the new stability, not going to hold. Ps this partially based around taunt if you think about it.

Well… Even though I do not care for the trinity system I DO think there is gain in conditions, healing and booning/buffing people…

I read to many people stating: well I cannot go anything but zerk cause I need my DPS …..
I’ll be honest if you never lookied beyond zerk you are either very uninterested in this game or to brainwashed to think there are alternatives.

Interestingly enough conditions are a main part of the meta. Damaging Conditions not as much, but they still prove to be interesting…. And I do not consider poison a damaging condition but a utility. Same for confusion, and torment…
Other gear specs can be very interesting…. provided your party is able to think instead of spamming their sequences & rotations like macro scripts.
I run zerk meta builds as well but also DPS EXP (as opposed to ZERK META) builds. Most of these builds are build around Zealots, Sinister and build to be more supportive and build for team play…

I will lose a couple of seconds each boss but we still 1 trap the ghosteater, we kill kohler in a couple of seconds longer but we survive without problems even with 2, 3 or more whirls, we can carry lvl 38’s trough AC and still 1 trap the ghosteater…. Why?

Cause the builds allow non exp to make mistakes. A LOT of wannabees carrying zerk are people who do not have a clue about decent running. I seldom see buff stacking, shielding, heals, walls, movement impedes… TBH I only see invisibility from thieves mostly, seldomly from engi’s. I see people nagging about going down and too low party dps while not even running food and utilities…..

When running ded food and weapons in night dungeons you’ll have a boost of 33% dmg, BUT force and bloodlust without food gets ONLY 11%, force and ded will net 26.5%

Yes 15% down the drain or more 5 ppl with ded weapons can function like 6 without preparations… (Of course this is fully applicable to zerk as well. Just to shake your minds up)

Some suggestions:

Zealot(/zerk)(monk) staff support ele 0/2/0/6/6
(access to SUPERIOR AOE healing, might buffing, protection/AOE condiclears, vulnerability, Icebow,blinds and so on)

Zealot(/zerk) (dwayna or pack) d/f staff Transfusion well/mark mancer 3/0/5/6/0
(also usable as clerics for a really durable support character in wvw)
(access to SUPERIOR AOE healing, protection, condiclears, boonstripping, vulnerability, Interupts, AOE blinds and so on)

Zealot(/zerk) (your choice (monk?)) Staff/SF Guard 2/5/0/6/1 (4/5/0/1/4 for SF GS version= inferior)
(access to SUPERIOR AOE healing, protection, (condiclears), vulnerability, Aegis, AOE blinds, reflects,stability and so on)

Sinister Hybrid (strength/hoelbrak) necro (3/0/5/4/2)(axe/staff well) or (0/6/5/3/0) hybrid terrormancer
(poison/bleeds/torment/vulnerability/(blinds/terror))

Sinister Hybrid (strength/hoelbrak) Warrior (2/6/0/4/2 (dungeons/support))
(burning/ bleeds/torment/ immobilize/cripple/ perma small banner(s), might stacking (12minimally (f1 LB, bow #3, bannerdrop, banner #5, FGJ), fury….

Of course these hybrids are semi condi builds, BUT a boss will not reset untill conditions time out….Necro epidemic an have a 1 MINUTE Duration….. So if you might wipe you can run back to the boss and reengage without having to start again…. without speed (doubt you’ll need to rerun though) Max 1 condi/hybrid/group Oh and mesmers using confusion and torment are not yet overwritten….

Oh and trust me if the resistance only put conditions on hold….. conditions can prove to be way more powerfull, as ticks are not affected by SLOW…

A boss using lots of CC isn’t going to stop people from going zerk, it will just make a zerk guardian more mandatory. If the bosses did two hits instead of one then a zerk hammer guardian would be even more mandatory. Meta comps will adapt with the professions and not with gear.

If a guardian is not present then the zerk party will simply bring as much dps as possible to burst the boss down, ele with ice bow deep freeze can ensure that the boss is brought really low if not dead within the CC duration. If Anet made the boss have too much health than the non-zerk parties will take an unreasonable amount of time to kill the boss which isn’t going to help either side.

So really the solution you make isn’t going to solve anything, no matter which way they do it, zerk will be meta. That is unless you make mobs like husk who are only vulnerable to conditions but then you really are just trading one damage gear for another. People always praise about how silverwaste discourages zerker but that is not true. Zerker in fact is still the most optimal way of dealing with all the silverwaste mobs except the husks.

^ Well you are right for the most part, earth elementals tend to have above average armor pools as well… so with your dps/condi hybrid there are already 2 types of enemy you’re actually more effective against

SLOW if implemented will make condition builds a bit more viable, due to the fact zerks are slowed down ( a bit), while applied conditions continue to tick.

RESISTANCE might seem a countermeasure, but as long conditions are put on hold so not ticking and additional stacks can be applied it could turn out to be a serious double edged sword… (imagine 25 stacks of bleeds, 25 vulnerabiliy, 15 torment, 10 confusion, and burning weakness, poison burning blinds cripple and chills (oh fear/terror?) to be applied at the same time whie you have the illusion you’re safe… You’ll be able to attack, have no penalty and on and then… your boon runs out and: you suffer a 7000+ dmg/tick, 9k hen moving, 6000 dmg on skill use, you cannot hit someone to remove conditions, cannot use heal, cannot run away (fast) though you’re forced due to , have longer skill recharge… keep in mind confusion will likely spread to other proffessions as well…. leaving conditions no longer a stack of bleeds and 5-7 torment with a poison or occasional burning…

TAUNT can be countered by putting an interupt/ CC skill on the autoattack (staff 5 for necro (enjoy, fear or terror?), hammer 4 or 5 for warrior (Oh I was pulled… now I knocked you back), evasive shot for ranger (Hi! Bye!), or just a powerfull auto (sword warrior), (sceper necro), (scepter or staff for mesmer)….. to give some nice condi’s in return

Oh and I doubt implementations of new conditions will autodestroy the present zerker preference ingame but it could change the meta, though the only change might be the need for a (decent?) (AOE) condition removal…

This is one of the reasons I have only done “Casual” runs. The other is that I’m a Necro main, but hey, maybe someday Conditions will actually be useful in PvE…it would be enough to just always have the highest damage Condi stacks tick first and have higher damage-condis exclusively overwrite lower-damage ones, and make it impossible the other way round. Bamm, conditions useful.

Anyway, back to my point: Yesterday i started running Flame Citadel. I have had my lvl 80 Necro since day 3 after early access, but i didn’t really run many dungeons. So after hearing about the expansion i thought “kitten boy, you have to farm yourself a dungeon-armor or two and some lvl 80 exotic weapons before the expansion hits”. That said, i went into flame citadel, completed the Story (kitten , that fire-aura boss was annoying with no ranged option equipped) and then ran a few 1 & 2 paths. After 2 or three times through path 2, the group we had had no Guardian. And that actually was the most fun run i had, despite, or maybe because, we failed 3 times at the “protect megg while he installs the bomb”-event… Until the warri switched to all banners and I switched from Dagger/Warhorn Dagger/Focus and the usual utilities and healing skill of the necro to Staff, all Wells (Well of Blood, Suffering, Corruption and Darkness), and exchanged an on-entering-deathssroud trait for focused rituals. With the CC, Conditions and now targeted and AE healing we easily completed the event.Yeah, 2 ele 1 warri 1 guardian 1 thief would have just spammed skills and still easily completed it, but kitten , having to adapt because of the lack of guardians was FUN. Just like the first boss in story-mode where our group wiped 3 times on the first boss, after which we figured we should stealth around the boss and take out all trash-camps around him to not be overwhelmed by the adds he spawns and the one he calls for help. But hey, most people just want to zerk through it. To each their own, i guess.

PaxTheGreatOne.9472:

RESISTANCE might seem a countermeasure, but as long conditions are put on hold so not ticking and additional stacks can be applied it could turn out to be a serious double edged sword…

Devs already explained, that the conditions are ticking and expiring normally, they just don’t have any effect.

Astralporing.1957:

PaxTheGreatOne.9472:

RESISTANCE might seem a countermeasure, but as long conditions are put on hold so not ticking and additional stacks can be applied it could turn out to be a serious double edged sword…

Devs already explained, that the conditions are ticking and expiring normally, they just don’t have any effect.

Wrong. They actually said that ticks would be “frozen in time” while resistance is on and continue ticking from where they left off once resistance boon expires. Meaning the boon will not clear condies or reduce their duration/effect time, but will give you a window in which you can clear them.

Some people don’t seem to realize that all the “meta zerker builds” for dungeons incorperate some sort of support and/or control in them.

Lazze.9870:

Some people don’t seem to realize that all the “meta zerker builds” for dungeons incorperate some sort of support and/or control in them.

Shhhh, let them…

LostBalloon.6423:

Astralporing.1957:

PaxTheGreatOne.9472:

RESISTANCE might seem a countermeasure, but as long conditions are put on hold so not ticking and additional stacks can be applied it could turn out to be a serious double edged sword…

Devs already explained, that the conditions are ticking and expiring normally, they just don’t have any effect.

Wrong. They actually said that ticks would be “frozen in time” while resistance is on and continue ticking from where they left off once resistance boon expires. Meaning the boon will not clear condies or reduce their duration/effect time, but will give you a window in which you can clear them.

actually, you’re wrong ans astral is right. not only did the devs explain the condis will keep on ticking, you can see it happen in the livestream.