Guild Wars 2

Ok, we can go back and forth forever about whether the Tuesday hours were predictable. Frankly neither of our own personal opinions on that are necessarily indicative of whether the event was deceptive or not. Instead, I again, present the evidence that the event was indeed deceptive:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/European-Beta-Times
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/South-America-Beta-time-AWFUL
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/Beta-times
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/HoT-Beta-Not-on-a-weekend
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/Beta-Testing-Times-quite-disappointing
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/Next-time-tell-us-the-test-duration-first
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/So-much-bitterness
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/beta-times-for-EU-is-big-joke
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/Beta-time-set-up-for-NA-players

And I say this. It seems based on these threads that a non negligible number of players were indeed fooled by this. And when the first weekend beta comes out, I think a lot of them are going to remember that they were fooled. I am tired. I am tired of seeing so much botched publicity from Anet. From the 50$ expansion not including a character slot, to the hint that they would not be grandfathering our traits in with the traits rework. Huge reddit threads, official gaming websites, all telling the outside world that the community is unhappy with the state of affairs in this game. It’s not good for bringing in new players. It’s not good for my favorite mmo, and it seems to hurt the odds of more meaningful content (i.e. not gem shop skins) being added to the game.

So, I say, they should give the portal owners access to the first weekend beta. Because the beta event can either be good PR or bad PR. And angry players seem to shout louder than happy players.

Those threads just talk about people wanting the times to be different. If ANet made the times to match the times in those threads, we’ve had another bunch of players posting going: those times don’t work for me! Make some in X time slot! Not that ANet was being deceptive!

It. Was. Not. Deceptive. At. All. If it was, there would have been a LOT more threads posted on the forums about it. Like what we saw when they announced the pre-purchase packages. Or when they put in the NPE or added Ascended or changed traits up drastically the first time. But there wasn’t.

Read my original post, this thread has always been about the restrictive hours. Most people work monday – friday, that’s reality. A large portion of this community is probably in school of some kind where classes meet monday – friday. I have never complained about the length of the beta, only its unavailability to a lot of players.

Whether you believe it was not deceptive, or I believe it was deceptive; is meaningless. Those threads show that players were indeed deceived. They did not expect the hours to be so incredibly restrictive. The first weekend beta can either be a bitter reminder of that time Anet unintentionally tricked them or a warm welcome to the future of gw2. I know which one I think will do a better job of winning back the community.

They farmed for a unkown beta, they got a date and time. That they then couldent attend is not anets fault

I read through the complaint threads listed what I saw was a handful of the same posters complaining again and again because they couldn’t play on date set for the closed Beta test. Beta tests are not set up for the players, they are for testing the game, your convenience is of no importance, AT ALL. The sooner people realize that the sooner they can get that chip off their shoulder and get back to enjoying the game, if they can’t or won’t maybe they just need to move on, period.

Roundabout.1752

:Beta tests are not set up for the players, they are for testing the game, your convenience is of no importance, AT ALL. The sooner people realize that the sooner they can get that chip off their shoulder and get back to enjoying the game, if they can’t or won’t maybe they just need to move on, period.

Then don’t make beta’s a drop to be farmed. Because drops are all about rewarding players.

Linken.6345:

They farmed for a unkown beta, they got a date and time. That they then couldent attend is not anets fault

Doesn’t matter if it is or is not anet’s fault. More unhappy players is bad PR. I want HOT to sell as well as possible. Leaving discontent festering is not achieving that goal.

Anet will do what works for them, and they have the figures on that we don’t. I liked that players got to farm for a Beta invite it gave players a chance to either farm for it or not, unlike the first Beta where selection was completely random, I image people who didn’t even play the game anymore received invites to the first Beta. If threads like this prove anything it’s that a certain percentage of players will always find something to feel aggrieved over.

Roundabout.1752:

I read through the complaint threads listed what I saw was a handful of the same posters complaining again and again because they couldn’t play on date set for the closed Beta test.

Sorry I had to reply out of order. This took some time. I ran through all those threads, and copied every name down from each thread. Then I went ahead and counted all the unique posters:
Number of unique posters: 18,11,4,29,9,47,10,8,28
Which adds up to 164.
When I then combined it to make one super list, and deleted the repeats there were still 128 unique posters. Now, I obviously didn’t sort out people unhappy/ people happy about the hours. So that is not saying, 128 angry people. But there were 128 unique accounts on those threads.

However, I don’t think anyone was praising Anet’s beta access hours. At most they were defending. At worst complaining. Some numbers to think about I suppose.

Beta tests are never for your conveniance get that through your head already. You can keep whining that you think the times sucked, but these kinds of short tests have to be held during anet working hours meaning crap times for a lot of people.

thrag.9740:

Seera.5916:

thrag.9740:

dsslive.8473:

thrag.9740:

The portal beta was in no way advertised as a stress test as far as I can see. It was advertised as a beta. Why would people assume it was a stress test?

Can anyone find me where it was called a stress test? All I can find is the original post:
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/claim-your-spot-in-the-next-heart-of-thorns-closed-beta/

No it wasnt advertised as a stress test, so far the only stress test advertised was for the new wvw map.

But previous closed beta’s (announced as closed beta) should have given you an idea of what this one would be like. Here – https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/upcoming-heart-of-thorns-closed-beta-tests/ – was the very first closed beta announcement, a closed beta that was very short amount of time during the day. It was no different with the closed beta for which you could farm for a portal.

When there is clear precedent of what a closed beta is, i hardly see how this is even in the slightest “deceiving”.

How can you talk about precedent when your comparing a beta you get into through a random drawing to a beta you farm a rare drop for?

Because the precedent they were talking about wasn’t related to how the participants were chosen.

The precedent had been set for closed betas being short hours on one day during the week.

Sure. Or you can phrase it as "the precedent had been set for closed betas which you get into through random selection being short hours on one day during the week.

If stuff changes, you should expect different results. After all, in mmos, one of the best known precedents is, that actively working towards a goal should give better results than passively working towards it. So why would players expect a rare drop they farmed to be equivalent to random email selection?

Whether the method of obtaining a beta invite changed or not has no influence on what a closed beta actually is. It is not Anet’s fault you talked yourself into believing this closed beta would be special and be longer than the last one. They didn’t deveive anyone. They have no control in what you tell yourself something will be if you disregard the precedent set for it.

They chose the hours because they have to be hands on to get as much information as possible. This wasnt a marketing event, this was testing. Thus they need to be there working on it, thus it needs to fall during the time they work. It’s as simple as that.

dsslive.8473:

thrag.9740:

Seera.5916:

thrag.9740:

dsslive.8473:

thrag.9740:

The portal beta was in no way advertised as a stress test as far as I can see. It was advertised as a beta. Why would people assume it was a stress test?

Can anyone find me where it was called a stress test? All I can find is the original post:
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/claim-your-spot-in-the-next-heart-of-thorns-closed-beta/

No it wasnt advertised as a stress test, so far the only stress test advertised was for the new wvw map.

But previous closed beta’s (announced as closed beta) should have given you an idea of what this one would be like. Here – https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/upcoming-heart-of-thorns-closed-beta-tests/ – was the very first closed beta announcement, a closed beta that was very short amount of time during the day. It was no different with the closed beta for which you could farm for a portal.

When there is clear precedent of what a closed beta is, i hardly see how this is even in the slightest “deceiving”.

How can you talk about precedent when your comparing a beta you get into through a random drawing to a beta you farm a rare drop for?

Because the precedent they were talking about wasn’t related to how the participants were chosen.

The precedent had been set for closed betas being short hours on one day during the week.

Sure. Or you can phrase it as "the precedent had been set for closed betas which you get into through random selection being short hours on one day during the week.

If stuff changes, you should expect different results. After all, in mmos, one of the best known precedents is, that actively working towards a goal should give better results than passively working towards it. So why would players expect a rare drop they farmed to be equivalent to random email selection?

Whether the method of obtaining a beta invite changed or not has no influence on what a closed beta actually is. It is not Anet’s fault you talked yourself into believing this closed beta would be special and be longer than the last one. They didn’t deveive anyone. They have no control in what you tell yourself something will be if you disregard the precedent set for it.

They chose the hours because they have to be hands on to get as much information as possible. This wasnt a marketing event, this was testing. Thus they need to be there working on it, thus it needs to fall during the time they work. It’s as simple as that.

A single pre existing beta is hardly a precedent. A much more well known precedent in mmos is that drops are a reward for playing. If it wasn’t a marketing event, don’t give it away as a drop.

Damian Vryce.9417:

Beta tests are never for your conveniance get that through your head already. You can keep whining that you think the times sucked, but these kinds of short tests have to be held during anet working hours meaning crap times for a lot of people.

Drops are a reward for playing the game. If the beta was not meant to be a reward to the player, do not give it away as a drop. That’s giving out mixed signals.

There isn’t a single existing precedent, though. There were all the Closed Betas and Stress Test Betas from Guild Wars 2 launch.

I would not have expected them to change what Closed Betas/Stress Tests were with an expansion. It’s always good to do a bit of research, I’ve found, rather than assuming.

Good luck.

thrag.9740:

dsslive.8473:

thrag.9740:

Seera.5916:

thrag.9740:

dsslive.8473:

thrag.9740:

The portal beta was in no way advertised as a stress test as far as I can see. It was advertised as a beta. Why would people assume it was a stress test?

Can anyone find me where it was called a stress test? All I can find is the original post:
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/claim-your-spot-in-the-next-heart-of-thorns-closed-beta/

No it wasnt advertised as a stress test, so far the only stress test advertised was for the new wvw map.

But previous closed beta’s (announced as closed beta) should have given you an idea of what this one would be like. Here – https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/upcoming-heart-of-thorns-closed-beta-tests/ – was the very first closed beta announcement, a closed beta that was very short amount of time during the day. It was no different with the closed beta for which you could farm for a portal.

When there is clear precedent of what a closed beta is, i hardly see how this is even in the slightest “deceiving”.

How can you talk about precedent when your comparing a beta you get into through a random drawing to a beta you farm a rare drop for?

Because the precedent they were talking about wasn’t related to how the participants were chosen.

The precedent had been set for closed betas being short hours on one day during the week.

Sure. Or you can phrase it as "the precedent had been set for closed betas which you get into through random selection being short hours on one day during the week.

If stuff changes, you should expect different results. After all, in mmos, one of the best known precedents is, that actively working towards a goal should give better results than passively working towards it. So why would players expect a rare drop they farmed to be equivalent to random email selection?

Whether the method of obtaining a beta invite changed or not has no influence on what a closed beta actually is. It is not Anet’s fault you talked yourself into believing this closed beta would be special and be longer than the last one. They didn’t deveive anyone. They have no control in what you tell yourself something will be if you disregard the precedent set for it.

They chose the hours because they have to be hands on to get as much information as possible. This wasnt a marketing event, this was testing. Thus they need to be there working on it, thus it needs to fall during the time they work. It’s as simple as that.

A single pre existing beta is hardly a precedent. A much more well known precedent in mmos is that drops are a reward for playing. If it wasn’t a marketing event, don’t give it away as a drop.

Damian Vryce.9417:

Beta tests are never for your conveniance get that through your head already. You can keep whining that you think the times sucked, but these kinds of short tests have to be held during anet working hours meaning crap times for a lot of people.

Drops are a reward for playing the game. If the beta was not meant to be a reward to the player, do not give it away as a drop. That’s giving out mixed signals.

There have been reports that you can use the portals as decorations in Guild Halls when HoT launches. So there is a secondary usage to the portals beyond beta access.

So it is a reward for playing. Their guild gets a special decoration from them.

ANet probably didn’t have the numbers it wanted from it’s first beta. Because there was no easy way to separate active players from inactive players out of a mailing list.

So they devised a way to ensure that they had enough active players invited to the beta. By utilizing the drop system in game. If they got a portal, it means they’ve got the game installed on their computer and patched and they are at least somewhat active.

How would you design a beta selection process that would guarantee active participants and not have a bias towards players on at a certain time?

I just gotta ask, cause I’m nosy I guess, but what exactly did you think the Portal entitled you to in the first place?

https://help.guildwars2.com/entries/91220997-Heart-of-Thorns-Beta-FAQ

I found a “Portal to the Heart of Maguuma” but I haven’t pre-purchased Heart of Thorns. Can I still participate in beta weekend events?

No, the “Portal to the Heart of Maguuma” was only used for one closed beta event. If you’d like to participate in the beta weekends, you can still get in by pre-purchasing Heart of Thorns.

Anet knows not everyone who gets access to any beta event that some players may not be able to play due to global time zones differences and other real life obligations. They owe nothing to anyone who farmed a beta portal and couldn’t play for whatever reason. Honestly you didn’t miss much as it was just a stress test on ther servers and ingame event systems with the demo client. So I don’t really see what what the qq is about MHO! Life insn’t always fair and just have to solider on.

I got into the first closed beta, didn’t get into the second CB after all that farming as my first CB slot got deleted.. didn’t cry.

thrag.9740:

How can you talk about precedent when your comparing a beta you get into through a random drawing to a beta you farm a rare drop for?

Yeah, how DARE they treat one random drawing the same as another?

Duke Darkwood.4237:

thrag.9740:

How can you talk about precedent when your comparing a beta you get into through a random drawing to a beta you farm a rare drop for?

Yeah, how DARE they treat one random drawing the same as another?

Yes, because I was clearly comparing the fact that both were random and not the time investment.

Seera.5916:

The precedent had been set for closed betas being short hours on one day during the week.

Nope. The first beta was specifically a stress test (and was advertised as one beforehand). As such, it could hardly be a precedent for other betas. There is however a different precedent set – the betas for the core game. And you know what? They were weekend-long events.

dsslive.8473:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/upcoming-heart-of-thorns-closed-beta-tests/

Astralporing.1957:

Seera.5916:

The precedent had been set for closed betas being short hours on one day during the week.

Nope. The first beta was specifically a stress test (and was advertised as one beforehand). As such, it could hardly be a precedent for other betas. There is however a different precedent set – the betas for the core game. And you know what? They were weekend-long events.

Check the link in the above post and tell me how it was specifically advertised as a stress test despite it clearly saying closed beta?

The only test so far that was advertised as stress test was the wvw borderlands one.

In this case the “investment” did not guarantee a certain result, other than that it would provide access to a closed beta. By spending more time in Silverwastes one for sure could increase the likelihood of eventually acquiring a portal. However the real return was not the portal, but the beta this portal would give access to. And no one had any real clue on how this beta would be shaped. Referring to previous beta’s for GW2 does not really help as initial release of GW2 was preceded both by beta weekends (though I believe BWE1-3 were only with guaranteed access if you pre-purchased GW2, hey, that sure sounds familiar) as well as short stress tests. For HoT we – to my recollection – only had one closed PvE beta before the portals were put in the game as a drop. So neither excludes nor includes the other.

Simple fact remains that no one new for sure what kind of beta the portal would provide access to, nor when this would take place and if it would be for more than 1 closed beta. As such one could have hopes or personal expectations about how the beta would be shaped, but bottom line that all was pure speculation as ANet had not announced anything about the closed beta the portal would give access to. Any time spent on acquiring the portal consequently was at own risk.

But even though I personally think that one shouldn’t have realistically expected more from the portal, I can not escape the feeling that ANet could or at least should have known in advance that there would be quite a few players who would mirror the time spent on acquiring the portal to the type and period of closed beta that would be provided access to. In that sense ANet themselves created, at least partially, this expectation with some players by putting the portal in the game as a rare drop. That doesn’t mean I think they now should provide access to portal owners for the next beta, but I do think they could have been more clear in advance about what to expect.