Guild Wars 2

BrotherBelial.3094:

What’s with the Logan hate? I like the way Rytlock and Logan interact.

Logan has a bad case of *ahem before bros…

I don’t blame anyone for disliking him, especially when his counter part is a gigantic angry cat with a voice that makes children cry.

Brahmincorle.1264:

Dasenthal.6520:

Brahmincorle.1264:

Dasenthal.6520:

Brahmincorle.1264:

Dasenthal.6520:

How did charr cause the genocide exactly? They were fighting for their homeland in a brutal but direct fashion, and the humans took the dirty way out, resulting in wiping out their own kingdom.

The searing…

Dasenthal.6520:

And yes it is different because the fight with mordremoth wasn’t hours away when he left for an equally heroic quest. Logan practically left at the last possible moment leaving Destiny’s Edge holding the remains of a poor plan with one less player in the fight….
Plus it’s 4+an army without Rytlock
It was just 4 and a small dragon without Logan.

They could abandon that plan and just retreat. Yes I agree there is a difference though. Logan had to leave, Rytlock decided to leave.

1. Searing didn’t cause the ghosts, king adelbern did.
2. If queen jennah saying “save me!” Constitutes being forced to leave, than so does jumping into a hole leading into the mists to save your ancestral homeland. No matter how important jennah may be, Rytlock is saving his race from countless more losses (not to mention potentially other races once the charr can focus entirely on dragons) versus Logan saving a possibly important individual, because of his love interest.

When did I said the searing caused ghosts? I said the searing was a genocide and ghosts are just indirect remnants of what Charr did back then.

Love interest , duty and honor.

Ok… Using that logic you’re saying that the charr attacked the humans (true), and because the humans couldn’t win they (mostly adelbern) blew themselves up… And its still the charr’s fault?

Fine, we’ll take it a step further: The humans (many generations back) “invaded” the charr land, when the charr finally found a way to get their land back they used it. Then gw1 takes place… Then Adelbern blows everything up, etc.. So the humans still indirectly and directly caused the ghosts, which forced Rytlock to jump in the hole to save his people…
I still reserve even with “Love, honor, and duty” he had a choice, and if we disagree there than I would argue Rytlock certainly was not given a choice.

the searing is like nuclear bomb…. Charr lost heir homeland hundreds of years before the searing. It is like if Greece nuked the entire Turkey because much of the Turkey was once part of the Greece. That is something unimaginable but Charr did it.

No as I said above, Logan had no choice. If he refused to help Jennah he would be an oathbreaker and traitor and since he is white paladin stereotype in this game, he had to help her no matter the cost. (Btw: this internal conflict between him as a loayal soldier, member of Destiny’s Edge and in platonic love with Jennah is the only thing interesting on this otherwise boring character).

It would be like Greece and Turkey except they haven’t been fighting over the land for hundreds of years. My understanding is that there was war between charr and humans the entire time, so it wasn’t really a sneak attack so much as a much larger attack than expected.

Ok… And Rytlock’s choice is easy? I mean he pretty much sacrifice’s himself so that his race will fight the dragon. Instead of making a choice between love interest and killing a dragon he gets the option to stand there (watch the only chance of getting some of Tyria’s best warriors to fight the dragons fade away) or jump in the mists to find who knows what which will likely cost him his life…

Jenna (telepathically): “Logan I need you”
Logan: “Sorry mate, duty calls.”
Rytlock: “WTF mate?!”

(Logan waypointed out)

Logan: “Oh, Jenna, I am here at your service.”
Jenna: “Sorry my bad, Logan baby, I figured out how to lure away the enemy. I didn’t need you after all.”
Logan: (silent – while one eye twitching)

Eir: “So…we wiped. Try again next week?”
Zojja: “You’re a horrible raid leader Eir. I’m never going to raid with you people again.”
Caithe: “Wait Zojja…”
Zojja: “Zip it!” (while gesturing the letter Z)
Rytlock: “Logan will hear this from me until I die and comes back from the Mist. Hahaha”
Snaff: “Rez plz? Anybody?”

Dasenthal.6520:

Brahmincorle.1264:

Dasenthal.6520:

Brahmincorle.1264:

Dasenthal.6520:

Brahmincorle.1264:

Dasenthal.6520:

How did charr cause the genocide exactly? They were fighting for their homeland in a brutal but direct fashion, and the humans took the dirty way out, resulting in wiping out their own kingdom.

The searing…

Dasenthal.6520:

And yes it is different because the fight with mordremoth wasn’t hours away when he left for an equally heroic quest. Logan practically left at the last possible moment leaving Destiny’s Edge holding the remains of a poor plan with one less player in the fight….
Plus it’s 4+an army without Rytlock
It was just 4 and a small dragon without Logan.

They could abandon that plan and just retreat. Yes I agree there is a difference though. Logan had to leave, Rytlock decided to leave.

1. Searing didn’t cause the ghosts, king adelbern did.
2. If queen jennah saying “save me!” Constitutes being forced to leave, than so does jumping into a hole leading into the mists to save your ancestral homeland. No matter how important jennah may be, Rytlock is saving his race from countless more losses (not to mention potentially other races once the charr can focus entirely on dragons) versus Logan saving a possibly important individual, because of his love interest.

When did I said the searing caused ghosts? I said the searing was a genocide and ghosts are just indirect remnants of what Charr did back then.

Love interest , duty and honor.

Ok… Using that logic you’re saying that the charr attacked the humans (true), and because the humans couldn’t win they (mostly adelbern) blew themselves up… And its still the charr’s fault?

Fine, we’ll take it a step further: The humans (many generations back) “invaded” the charr land, when the charr finally found a way to get their land back they used it. Then gw1 takes place… Then Adelbern blows everything up, etc.. So the humans still indirectly and directly caused the ghosts, which forced Rytlock to jump in the hole to save his people…
I still reserve even with “Love, honor, and duty” he had a choice, and if we disagree there than I would argue Rytlock certainly was not given a choice.

the searing is like nuclear bomb…. Charr lost heir homeland hundreds of years before the searing. It is like if Greece nuked the entire Turkey because much of the Turkey was once part of the Greece. That is something unimaginable but Charr did it.

No as I said above, Logan had no choice. If he refused to help Jennah he would be an oathbreaker and traitor and since he is white paladin stereotype in this game, he had to help her no matter the cost. (Btw: this internal conflict between him as a loayal soldier, member of Destiny’s Edge and in platonic love with Jennah is the only thing interesting on this otherwise boring character).

It would be like Greece and Turkey except they haven’t been fighting over the land for hundreds of years. My understanding is that there was war between charr and humans the entire time, so it wasn’t really a sneak attack so much as a much larger attack than expected.

Ok… And Rytlock’s choice is easy? I mean he pretty much sacrifice’s himself so that his race will fight the dragon. Instead of making a choice between love interest and killing a dragon he gets the option to stand there (watch the only chance of getting some of Tyria’s best warriors to fight the dragons fade away) or jump in the mists to find who knows what which will likely cost him his life…

They actually were fighting until early 19th centruy and they are still in sort of cold war But this is way too off topic. Nobody argue it was a sneak attack… it was genocide

I never say Rytlock’s choice was easy or wrong. I said it was somewhat same as Logan’s choice. He had to choose between 2 wrongs and he did, end of story.

edit: Sir Vincent III lol

If she can’t trust the PC or DE, she’s incapable of trust. Logan trusts Rytlock who has been in the past fairly interested in seeing him BBQ’d.

This is part of the reason he’s heroic and worthy of liking and trust. He lays it all out, and there are few reservations.

There’s closure to the conflict, and both sides are left looking pretty good.

The logan hate I attribute to people being unwilling to give up the emotional satisfaction of the hate.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Jenna (telepathically): “Logan I need you”
Logan: “Sorry mate, duty calls.”
Rytlock: “WTF mate?!”

(Logan waypointed out)

Logan: “Oh, Jenna, I am here at your service.”
Jenna: “Sorry my bad, Logan baby, I figured out how to lure away the enemy. I didn’t need you after all.”
Logan: (silent – while one eye twitching)

Eir: “So…we wiped. Try again next week?”
Zojja: “You’re a horrible raid leader Eir. I’m never going to raid with you people again.”
Caithe: “Wait Zojja…”
Zojja: “Zip it!” (while gesturing the letter Z)
Rytlock: “Logan will hear this from me until I die and comes back from the Mist. Hahaha”
Snaff: “Rez plz? Anybody?”

best part bolded.

Brahmincorle.1264:

Dasenthal.6520:

Brahmincorle.1264:

Dasenthal.6520:

Brahmincorle.1264:

Dasenthal.6520:

Brahmincorle.1264:

Dasenthal.6520:

How did charr cause the genocide exactly? They were fighting for their homeland in a brutal but direct fashion, and the humans took the dirty way out, resulting in wiping out their own kingdom.

The searing…

Dasenthal.6520:

And yes it is different because the fight with mordremoth wasn’t hours away when he left for an equally heroic quest. Logan practically left at the last possible moment leaving Destiny’s Edge holding the remains of a poor plan with one less player in the fight….
Plus it’s 4+an army without Rytlock
It was just 4 and a small dragon without Logan.

They could abandon that plan and just retreat. Yes I agree there is a difference though. Logan had to leave, Rytlock decided to leave.

1. Searing didn’t cause the ghosts, king adelbern did.
2. If queen jennah saying “save me!” Constitutes being forced to leave, than so does jumping into a hole leading into the mists to save your ancestral homeland. No matter how important jennah may be, Rytlock is saving his race from countless more losses (not to mention potentially other races once the charr can focus entirely on dragons) versus Logan saving a possibly important individual, because of his love interest.

When did I said the searing caused ghosts? I said the searing was a genocide and ghosts are just indirect remnants of what Charr did back then.

Love interest , duty and honor.

Ok… Using that logic you’re saying that the charr attacked the humans (true), and because the humans couldn’t win they (mostly adelbern) blew themselves up… And its still the charr’s fault?

Fine, we’ll take it a step further: The humans (many generations back) “invaded” the charr land, when the charr finally found a way to get their land back they used it. Then gw1 takes place… Then Adelbern blows everything up, etc.. So the humans still indirectly and directly caused the ghosts, which forced Rytlock to jump in the hole to save his people…
I still reserve even with “Love, honor, and duty” he had a choice, and if we disagree there than I would argue Rytlock certainly was not given a choice.

the searing is like nuclear bomb…. Charr lost heir homeland hundreds of years before the searing. It is like if Greece nuked the entire Turkey because much of the Turkey was once part of the Greece. That is something unimaginable but Charr did it.

No as I said above, Logan had no choice. If he refused to help Jennah he would be an oathbreaker and traitor and since he is white paladin stereotype in this game, he had to help her no matter the cost. (Btw: this internal conflict between him as a loayal soldier, member of Destiny’s Edge and in platonic love with Jennah is the only thing interesting on this otherwise boring character).

It would be like Greece and Turkey except they haven’t been fighting over the land for hundreds of years. My understanding is that there was war between charr and humans the entire time, so it wasn’t really a sneak attack so much as a much larger attack than expected.

Ok… And Rytlock’s choice is easy? I mean he pretty much sacrifice’s himself so that his race will fight the dragon. Instead of making a choice between love interest and killing a dragon he gets the option to stand there (watch the only chance of getting some of Tyria’s best warriors to fight the dragons fade away) or jump in the mists to find who knows what which will likely cost him his life…

They actually were fighting until early 19th centruy and they are still in sort of cold war But this is way too off topic. Nobody argue it was a sneak attack… it was genocide

I never say Rytlock’s choice was easy or wrong. I said it was somewhat same as Logan’s choice. He had to choose between 2 wrongs and he did, end of story.

edit: Sir Vincent III lol

Yea… So I was just rereading, and I now realize this long conversation stemmed from my not picking up on your sarcasm in an earlier post
~been a pleasure discussing with you.

Although I believe it was a justified attack, I think we’ll just have to agree to disagree on the ‘genecide’ issue.

Windsagio.1340:

I didn’t want to massively reboot the caithe issue, beyond 1 specific difference.

Logan made mistakes, so did Caithe. The comparison is clear and almost certainly intentional.

Logan came clean, even from the beginning he had guilt, but when push came to shove he said “I did what I thought I had to do, maybe it was the wrong thing” and he has the good taste to feel guilty about it.

Caithe still has never chosen to face her mistakes, and shows no sign of doing so. She hides her guilt and makes excuses and says “YOU MUST TRUST ME!” all the time, but she’s unwilling to come to terms with her past (and present) mistakes.

~~~

The interaction between Logan and Rytlock is one of the most legitimately heroic things we see in the story of DE. Both of them had to admit their own mistakes and prejudices and come clean… and they both acknowledged that it was only a start. It was brave and noble on both of their parts.

Caithe has nothing like that, and probably can’t because nobody actually likes her anyways (as far as dialogue goes). Nobody likes her because she’s secretive and dodgy, because she can’t and won’t come to terms with her personal guilt..

One sounds like an adult, the other a child. Perhaps a play on the fact that the Sylvari are still a young race?

ammayhem.5962:

Windsagio.1340:

I didn’t want to massively reboot the caithe issue, beyond 1 specific difference.

Logan made mistakes, so did Caithe. The comparison is clear and almost certainly intentional.

Logan came clean, even from the beginning he had guilt, but when push came to shove he said “I did what I thought I had to do, maybe it was the wrong thing” and he has the good taste to feel guilty about it.

Caithe still has never chosen to face her mistakes, and shows no sign of doing so. She hides her guilt and makes excuses and says “YOU MUST TRUST ME!” all the time, but she’s unwilling to come to terms with her past (and present) mistakes.

~~~

The interaction between Logan and Rytlock is one of the most legitimately heroic things we see in the story of DE. Both of them had to admit their own mistakes and prejudices and come clean… and they both acknowledged that it was only a start. It was brave and noble on both of their parts.

Caithe has nothing like that, and probably can’t because nobody actually likes her anyways (as far as dialogue goes). Nobody likes her because she’s secretive and dodgy, because she can’t and won’t come to terms with her personal guilt..

One sounds like an adult, the other a child. Perhaps a play on the fact that the Sylvari are still a young race?

I know people who are still children in their 20s, not a big fan.

Yeah, nevermind literary symbolism.