Guild Wars 2

Orpheal.8263:

Wasn’t also there the speech about an E-Spec that will receive 6 Signets? I think the best fit for that would be then the first Ele E-Spec with a Warhorn to call quickly their storms and control them via activating their signets in a special way, while profitating from various passive effects while you don’t use the storms so that you can concentrate yourself more on your weapon skills and elemental attunements more.

Ele already has signets.

TheDaiBish.9735:

@Orpheal

That link you posted shows a Revenant with a sword, not a shortbow.

Hmm, ok, your right, when i look closer now lol, but from the way hes holdign it, you could think its a bow xD However, I still believe their E-Spec gets a Shortbow, that or Focus

@ rotten: and theres a rule to give them not more? However by that logic it would mean, Forger gets it, because the Engineer is so far the only class with no signets.

Orpheal.8263:

@ rotten: and theres a rule to give them not more? However by that logic it would mean, Forger gets it, because the Engineer is so far the only class with no signets.

That would be a precedent and a really brightful future for a spec. Warhorn plus signets, can’t say I’m salivating.

if it realyl ends up this way, you don’t have to like it, everyone will see in that bright future more following elite specializations and if someone just doens’t like the first set.
maybe therefore you will like the next one then far better.

This will be for me the case too, if why ever ANet thinks, they need to ruin the game with rifle thieves a.k.a “Snipers” what so many people with no taste want here that it should happen…
If it happens, I’ll completely ignore that E-Spec and just wait for the next one, that will fit then hopefully much better to the thief thematically, by gameplay and new weapon that it receives, like a Torch or Mace using Saboteur, like a Quarterstaff wielding martial artistical Brawler or like a dual sword wielding Rogue or an Longbow wielding Infiltrator or an Axe/Mace wielding Bandit, or a Claws/Chain Sicle using Assassins.

Options here are so diverse and the thief has many good options for upcoming E-Specs that in my opinion will make much more fun anmd are alot more fitting, than a rifle E-Spec will ever be.
I don’t like rifles, they are among Pistols some weapons, which imo should have never been implemented into GW2.

Instead of these 2 weapon categories they should have added two other more senseful weapon categories, like Great Axes and Polearms, liek Halberds, or somethign else, like Whips, Quarterstaffs or Claws, conventional weapons simply.
a class like the Engineer could have started then with Mace and Hammer for example from begin on, cause that class has already more than enough ranged weapons within all of its kits.
A class like Thief could have startet directly then with Longbow instead of Pistols to have also a long range weapon and the garbage around the shortbow range nerfs would have never happened from begin on and the problem of the class having no long range optino woudl hasve never existed also.

The mesmer with its one pistol, not seriously a big loss, they coudl have given them a different weapon as replacement, like Offhand Scepter as unique mechanism beign the only class, that can wield 2 scepters at the same time…

but, in the end, its all just a matter of taste

Leo G.4501:

Test.8734:

Ergo, it doesn’t really take a genius to easily understand how the warhorn is the worst weapon in the game, clipping with skirts-wise.

Apparently it does take a genius since you haven’t figured out for yourself that your argument is only working when you make specific exceptions aimed directly to make warhorn the worst-case scenario.

Yes, because using a warhorn with a skirt is of course a very uncommon example in the game Warhorns are the worst weapon in the game, clipping wise. If you refuse to see that, well, I can recommend a few good ophthalmologists.

Test.8734:

Leo G.4501:

Test.8734:

Ergo, it doesn’t really take a genius to easily understand how the warhorn is the worst weapon in the game, clipping with skirts-wise.

Apparently it does take a genius since you haven’t figured out for yourself that your argument is only working when you make specific exceptions aimed directly to make warhorn the worst-case scenario.

Yes, because using a warhorn with a skirt is of course a very uncommon example in the game Warhorns are the worst weapon in the game, clipping wise. If you refuse to see that, well, I can recommend a few good ophthalmologists.

Non-Charr off-hand dagger wielders repeatedly stab themselves in the femoral artery. Your argument is invalid.

TheDaiBish.9735:

@Orpheal

That link you posted shows a Revenant with a sword, not a shortbow.

Lol reminds me of the early post saying thr Staff that Rytlock had was really a hammer…. remember that?

Well the sword is an overused weapon. I think there are 5 professions that can use it, and it’s going to be 6 soon because you can bet whatever you want that Revenants are getting them too. (Rytlock has a legendary sword.)

It’s possible they originally intended to go for sword on Elementalist, then figured they’d dump it and spread more use for less ubiquitous weapons such as warhorn.

There could also be the fact that, due to how Elementalists work, a main-hand+off-hand weapon would require them to create 20 new skills, so going to an off-hand only reduces it to only 8. Of course, they could just make the sword off-hand only as well.

Bearhugger.4326:

There could also be the fact that, due to how Elementalists work, a main-hand+off-hand weapon would require them to create 20 new skills, so going to an off-hand only reduces it to only 8. Of course, they could just make the sword off-hand only as well.

A new mainhand would only require 12 new abilities, thats all we wanted not a new off hand.

I wonder if the Tempest was given a mainhand like the Axe or Mace but not the sword, if that would have satisfied. I pretty much doubt it.

Raif.9507:

I am not arguing whether or not the elementalist needs more mobility, I was just pointing out flaws in your points and offering information from someone who actually plays the class and isn’t reading things off of a wikipedia list. Dual dagger is very mobile, it should be and no one would argue that it needs more mobility. The only thing in that regards would be the change to RtL as it no longer needs the hit/miss cooldown thing, but that is a slightly different discussion.

Updraft has a blowout, but it also serves as a retreat skill similar to Phase Retreat. It’s both.

I’ve played every profession up to 80, and while I’ve referred to skill lists to give objective evidence, my observation comes primarily from experience: dagger/dagger elementalist, especially coupled with Lightning Flash, is in my experience the most mobile thing around that isn’t a thief.

Even if we were to consider that the mesmer can match it (which doesn’t match my experience playing both professions, but for the sake of argument, let’s take it as given), that still makes the elementalist at the top of the non-Thief pack.

(Warrior I may have underestimated – that’s my least-played profession.)

All that said, a sword mainhand for the ele likely would involve a lot of mobility and invulnerable frames in order to survive, particularly if it had no ranged options (dagger can always switch to Water if they need to take a breather). However, I don’t think a mobility playstyle for the elementalist is filling a gap, since it’s already one of the most mobile professions. A meleementalist, on the other hand, is something that’s not really practical to do at the moment short of Conjure Lightning. (Which I think may have been nerfed in the recent update – they were certainly talking about nerfing Conjure Lightning and Conjure Frost.)

Eles getting the warhorn is a great thing. Imagine a water skill called Bubblebeam where you blow bubbles at your opponent. You can rp Pokemon then.

draxynnic.3719:

Updraft has a blowout, but it also serves as a retreat skill similar to Phase Retreat. It’s both.

I’ve played every profession up to 80, and while I’ve referred to skill lists to give objective evidence, my observation comes primarily from experience: dagger/dagger elementalist, especially coupled with Lightning Flash, is in my experience the most mobile thing around that isn’t a thief.

Even if we were to consider that the mesmer can match it (which doesn’t match my experience playing both professions, but for the sake of argument, let’s take it as given), that still makes the elementalist at the top of the non-Thief pack.

(Warrior I may have underestimated – that’s my least-played profession.)

All that said, a sword mainhand for the ele likely would involve a lot of mobility and invulnerable frames in order to survive, particularly if it had no ranged options (dagger can always switch to Water if they need to take a breather). However, I don’t think a mobility playstyle for the elementalist is filling a gap, since it’s already one of the most mobile professions. A meleementalist, on the other hand, is something that’s not really practical to do at the moment short of Conjure Lightning. (Which I think may have been nerfed in the recent update – they were certainly talking about nerfing Conjure Lightning and Conjure Frost.)

Again, Updraft may move you, but it isn’t a mobility skill. It’s not it’s actual use even though it has evade frames. it is used for the blowout but has a displacement attached to it. Also, I don’t think mesmer can match Elementalist in sheer mobility,but then again I don’t think it should. Mobility isn’t supposed to be something every class should have at the same level as each one has its strengths and weaknesses. Mesmer has low cooldown blinks, stealth, clones (it confuses people sometimes), invulnerability, and higher health (we can also add in weapon swap, but that’s debatable as ele does have 4 attunements). Elementalist Dual Dagger has boons, heals, mobility and CC. Different strokes for different classes and that’s how it should be.

Now, in this discussion I would like to seperate the different builds and possibilities the weaponsets that elementalist have. Dual dagger IS mobile, however it’s also mainly played as a bruiser spec (or even a bunker) so it can take the damage. I don’t think this spec needs any help in that department, or in any department really. It’s solid, it works and is in a great spot. Though your ranged argument is… strange as no one realy uses water to “take a break” and auto in water. But all in all, the spec does what it should. It’s a bruiser/bunker and does that to a great extent and doesn’t really need anything.

What I, and many others hoping for sword, want is a burst spec. The current burst spec is Scepter with either focus or dagger. It’s a niche spec, not run a lot due to the fact that other classes out class it in both damage and survivability and group support. It’s easily shut down and the damage is lower (though still respectable). Lightning Flash in this spec ceases to be a mobility utility and becomes an offensive utility to land burst and the damage is not really there. Sword is where we hope(d) would bring in a melee assassin burst playstyle that we would love to have on the class. Mobility and evades in this case would just have to be the survival tool for that spec, but the request is for a burst spec primarily. And yes, I’d trade a ranged option and have sword be completely melee (real melee, not D/D melee) for a burst spec that depended on evades/mobility.

Also, no neither conjures were nerfed and Ice Bow was buffed in the end.

Updraft is a versatile skill. I don’t think you can say it doesn’t grant mobility when it throws you backwards and then adds swiftness on top. It does have other features that mean its often more useful to use it for something else, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t also a mobility skill. In fact, the blowout just makes it better at opening a gap if that’s what you want to do.

And the same argument can be made for Illusionary Leap. In fact, as a mobility skill it’s generally fairly weak – in the time it takes to generate the clone and teleport to it you can usually just run up to the target anyway, and the option to teleport to the clone doesn’t really last long enough to really get a lot out of it. There are tricks you can play with it, but mostly the skill is used for the cripple, immobilise, and clone generation, not for mobility.

Still, it seems we’re agreeing on the broad picture while quibbling over details. My comment regarding water in D/D was mainly to express that D/D grants the ability to back off if you need it (whether going to water, the slightly shorter range of fire, or just exploiting the fact that even the closest range dagger attacks are just out of reach of melee) – if that option to back off isn’t present in any hypothetical future elementalist weapon, the weapon would need to have something to compensate for always needing to be in melee. Revenant potentially has the same thing, but that’s a soldier profession.

draxynnic.3719:

Updraft is a versatile skill. I don’t think you can say it doesn’t grant mobility when it throws you backwards and then adds swiftness on top. It does have other features that mean its often more useful to use it for something else, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t also a mobility skill. In fact, the blowout just makes it better at opening a gap if that’s what you want to do.

And the same argument can be made for Illusionary Leap. In fact, as a mobility skill it’s generally fairly weak – in the time it takes to generate the clone and teleport to it you can usually just run up to the target anyway, and the option to teleport to the clone doesn’t really last long enough to really get a lot out of it. There are tricks you can play with it, but mostly the skill is used for the cripple, immobilise, and clone generation, not for mobility.

Still, it seems we’re agreeing on the broad picture while quibbling over details. My comment regarding water in D/D was mainly to express that D/D grants the ability to back off if you need it (whether going to water, the slightly shorter range of fire, or just exploiting the fact that even the closest range dagger attacks are just out of reach of melee) – if that option to back off isn’t present in any hypothetical future elementalist weapon, the weapon would need to have something to compensate for always needing to be in melee. Revenant potentially has the same thing, but that’s a soldier profession.

Which is why I may roll a revenant and switch mains after nearly 3 years of being an elementalist hardcore, it may very bring the type of gameplay I want and still have that “element swap” in the form of legend swap. I’ll be sad, but I’m very bored with the static and stagnant gameplay that is elementalist and how the burst versions of it just keep getting downplayed. The focus on D/D elementalist as a bruiser/bunker bores me to death, it’s just the same thing for the last 3 years.

MauricioCezar.2673:

Thanks for the kind word Silhoutte, I know I will end up accepting if it really becomes warhorn. But I also don’t have doubt that I will be crazy sad for a long time, since I really want to use bolt on my elementlist (Heck, I’ve been even farming mats to bolt the last months).

I just think that ele lacks so much in variety of weapons, that give to it (Just to it that have only 4 weapons avaiable atm) the most sad and boring weapon is like a slap on face :| .

Well, still crossing fingers to it not be warhorn .

Think Stormcaller from GW1. It can totally be awesome if Anet works it right. They gave us dagger ele’s and I’m very satisfied with how they came out.

One of my favorite ways to play.

I have faith they can make warhorn really cool for the Tempest if that’s the weapon we’re getting.

And if nothing else if isn’t sword and it’s warhorn, you can sell Bolt and dry your tears with money.

CETheLucid.3964:

MauricioCezar.2673:

Thanks for the kind word Silhoutte, I know I will end up accepting if it really becomes warhorn. But I also don’t have doubt that I will be crazy sad for a long time, since I really want to use bolt on my elementlist (Heck, I’ve been even farming mats to bolt the last months).

I just think that ele lacks so much in variety of weapons, that give to it (Just to it that have only 4 weapons avaiable atm) the most sad and boring weapon is like a slap on face :| .

Well, still crossing fingers to it not be warhorn .

Think Stormcaller from GW1. It can totally be awesome if Anet works it right. They gave us dagger ele’s and I’m very satisfied with how they came out.

One of my favorite ways to play.

I have faith they can make warhorn really cool for the Tempest if that’s the weapon we’re getting.

And if nothing else if isn’t sword and it’s warhorn, you can sell Bolt and dry your tears with money.

Sitting on 6k gold… it doesn’t help =(

Raif.9507:

CETheLucid.3964:

MauricioCezar.2673:

Thanks for the kind word Silhoutte, I know I will end up accepting if it really becomes warhorn. But I also don’t have doubt that I will be crazy sad for a long time, since I really want to use bolt on my elementlist (Heck, I’ve been even farming mats to bolt the last months).

I just think that ele lacks so much in variety of weapons, that give to it (Just to it that have only 4 weapons avaiable atm) the most sad and boring weapon is like a slap on face :| .

Well, still crossing fingers to it not be warhorn .

Think Stormcaller from GW1. It can totally be awesome if Anet works it right. They gave us dagger ele’s and I’m very satisfied with how they came out.

One of my favorite ways to play.

I have faith they can make warhorn really cool for the Tempest if that’s the weapon we’re getting.

And if nothing else if isn’t sword and it’s warhorn, you can sell Bolt and dry your tears with money.

Sitting on 6k gold… it doesn’t help =(

Sure it will. You’d have ~9k to swim around in after you get over it. No one will even see your tears in all that gold.