Guild Wars 2

Tangled Depths suffers from some of the worst aspects of HoT’s map design:

You can’t get there from here. Long, sprawling pathways to vistas/POIs that start halfway across the zone, and to make matters worse are often unseen because the end-points are on a completely different map layer. Cute for some explorers, perhaps, but without custom map tools/markers or the ability to trace the route from goal to start, it makes finding points extremely frustrating.

I’m hiding, teeheehee. While this happens occasionally in old Tyria zones as well, there are entire paths in HoT and Tangled Depths especially, that are hidden behind some of the most innocuously inane kitten, as if to say “aren’t we, the devs, so so clever, hohohoho!” I wasn’t sure I could ever say a game’s design was “snarky” before, until just now.

It’s an attitude thing. Where you see frustration and snark, I see clever design and opportunity to explore.

“i can’t figure out how to get there from here”
YouTube it. Dulfy it. The resources are there if you want to use them.

I think the name of the map says it all. I just ignore it and hate it when I have to go there. It’s easier once you get the hang of it and play it for a few hours, but doesn’t worth it in my opinion (time spent there vs reward).

To answer your question: they were thinking/responding to user requests (few years of too easy/simple maps of Tyria weren’t enough for hard-core players).

The real problem of these maps are population density per zone/events. Huge maps, with low population, because of the hard content/mastery requirements/lack of rewards will only make it harder for the new players, so the population is in decline. Probably they see this in their KPI’s and will fix this issues later on.

General Health.9678:

It’s an attitude thing. Where you see frustration and snark, I see clever design and opportunity to explore.

“I can’t figure out how to get there from here.”
YouTube it. Dulfy it. The resources are there if you want to use them.

“Wiki” is not a game design element. It’s a generally a sign that the design is insufficient to convey what needs to be conveyed. While those tools exist, there are gaps in the knowledge and that leads to scouring a half-dozen videos with half of them being in other languages.

Not to say there shouldn’t be secrets and hidey-holes in the maps, but it’s a matter of what’s put behind them. Unique minis, jumping puzzle achievement credit, etc. That’s fine. Doing that for hero challenges and map completion is pretty kittenish.

Tangled Depths is my favorite map. I love the complexity of it. I wish there was another map like it. Maybe an entire map in a Big deep cave. That would be something amazing. Or a Map of a ruined modern city. With many layers above ground and layers of sewer system below ground.

The maps is perfectly capable of helping the players navigate. One of the issues comes about players not knowing how to use the map to navigate across multiple layers. Another issue is that the paths don’t just leap at you unless you know what to look for.

Hot Boy.7138:

Or a Map of a ruined city.

The idea intrigues me. A zone the size of Black Citadel with a focus on several large, burned out buildings. It would still have plenty of room and reason for layering without some of the problematic faults of Tangled Depth’s design. A surface layer of wrecked landscape with a connecting underground city/encampment still trying to cling to the area in spite of the threat in the upper layers. I like it. It has potential.

The idea is kind of an inverse to how Tangled Depths works out. In TD, the silos screw down into the ground rather than emerge from it, which means reaching the end of a path is just that, the end. Then one has to walk/waypoint back. With an upward silo, there’s still room for internal complexity, but if the end of a track is reached, you jump out a window and soar somewhere, possibly to another building, adding to exploration rather than restricting it.

I love the map. It lives up to its name and makes exploring a lot more fun. Getting lost in the depths is a very real possibility until you’ve spent a good amount of time in the map. It’s easily my favourite map to explore that they’ve ever released.

Boogiepop Void.6473:

As an example of the badness, I was trying to get to Ogre Camp to get the waypoint. I ended up in the waterway (not intentionally), and seeing a pool under the camp I figured I could just swim there. After swimming for 15 min, I got to a big pool under the camp. Loking for a way to the platform, I saw that it looked like I needed to jump along a series of crystals to the exit. Did that for another 5-10min. Then got the end and looked up to disver that I was in kitten with some tree branches leading up. Realizing that to even try to go up that would involve trying to walked along branches and make pixel precision jumps all the way up, something notorious for the “moves you so quickly to the side when you encounter a non-visible stop that you instantly fall off” issue, I left the map in disgust, having spent OVER HALF AN HOUR GETTING 0 LOOT TO GET TRAPPED IN A DEAD END. Not only is there a giant room that on the map screams “something is hear”, but the layout of the room continues to make you believe that something is there after you arrive for a significant period of time. That is just one example of the poor design that went into the map. A dead end should be obvious when you get there, not indicate by it’s design that if you just do X you will reach something that turns out to be another dead end.

Been there, done that (including the leave in disgust). I completely agree with this post and the OP. The people who tell you that it will eventually become easy are either people inherently good at direction (in 3D) or spend so much time running around that it becomes second nature. If you are not inherently good at direction or have limited game time, the HoT maps and ESPECIALLY TD are very frustrating.

Perhaps in another 6 months I might learn my way around better, but I’m not willing to invest enough of my already-limited game time on something that isn’t really getting me much for my character. What I mainly do in HoT is AB Multi-loot.