Thief needs rifle, not melee staff

Thief needs rifle, not melee staff

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Posted by: Zetsumei.4975

Zetsumei.4975

No no no people, this is what it’s based on xD

Attachments:

Kurodaraku – Necromancer | Kuroshikon – Ranger
Officer of [DEX] Deus Ex Machina Eu and [Fus] Fus Ro Dâh
Ruins of Surmia

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Posted by: Genesis.8572

Genesis.8572

The people who have the idea that ninjas are not associated with bo staffs clearly never grew up watching Ninja Turtles.

You get a +1 since Donatello is my favorite. <3

He is my favorite too. +1 to you too.

Will Hawkins (Human Guardian)
Feryl Grimsteel (Charr Engineer)
Tarnished Coast

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Posted by: Sonickeyblade.8415

Sonickeyblade.8415

Wow. This conversation is insane. And it’s been going on for awhile. But it seems folks who want flavor prefer Staff Thief, folks who want a better fighting option want Rifle.

However… it seems that people want Rifle Theif because Dual Pistols and Shortbows are bad on Thief. Wouldn’t it make better sense to fix DP and Shortbows instead of leaving them “bad” and putting Rifle Thief in as a bandage?

I wouldn’t mind either or, but Staff Thief is definitely the cooler of the two. With that said I would like a buff to DP Thief as well. Honestly, I don’t see why DP Thief’s auto attack isn’t some version of Unload. The other moves for DP Thief are pretty bad. If anything, the best argument for Rifle Thief over Staff Thief is that Shortbow and Pistols are so bad, thieves need another option.

And while agree with that statement, I think that’s a bad way to approach design. I rather they fix the previous ranged options before giving them another that might be just as bad.

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Posted by: Tyr.6097

Tyr.6097

However… it seems that people want Rifle Theif because Dual Pistols and Shortbows are bad on Thief. Wouldn’t it make better sense to fix DP and Shortbows instead of leaving them “bad” and putting Rifle Thief in as a bandage?

To be honest: Yes, i want the rifle because of how bad our range options are. Fix them and all staff junkies can have staffs to cosplay kitten mowl the whole time.

Tyrs Klinge ~Thief~

(edited by Tyr.6097)

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Posted by: Crise.9401

Crise.9401

To be honest: Yes, i want the rifle because of how bad our range options are. Fix them and all staff junkies can have staffs to cosplay kitten mowl the whole time.

Ranged options… wait, shortbow is a ranged weapon, I always though of it as AoE/Utility… there is no sensible way to make it a proper ranged weapon with good damage without changing majority of the skills on it completely.

P/P is really the only ranged weapon for thief that doesn’t inherently drop our DPS through the floor (don’t get me wrong P/P is no match for D/D at all, but when it comes to ranged weapons where the range is actually useful it is basically the only choice).

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Posted by: CodenameZeus.3945

CodenameZeus.3945

As long as rifle gives me a frontline build, sure.

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Posted by: Shiki.7148

Shiki.7148

So, I’ve seen tons of “but melee staff cannot give Thieves anything new mimimi” posts… Well, then let me ask you: Does the Thief have a lot of close range CC like dazes and knockdowns? No? Well maybe that is what a melee staff could provide. Lots of hard CC paired with good damage.

“Revenant is actual proof that devs read the necromancer forum” – Pelopidas.2140

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Posted by: Tyr.6097

Tyr.6097

To be honest: Yes, i want the rifle because of how bad our range options are. Fix them and all staff junkies can have staffs to cosplay kitten mowl the whole time.

Ranged options… wait, shortbow is a ranged weapon, I always though of it as AoE/Utility… there is no sensible way to make it a proper ranged weapon with good damage without changing majority of the skills on it completely.

P/P is really the only ranged weapon for thief that doesn’t inherently drop our DPS through the floor (don’t get me wrong P/P is no match for D/D at all, but when it comes to ranged weapons where the range is actually useful it is basically the only choice).

Shortbow is an annoying abortion of a ranged weapon. Yes it has good utility but it’s simply no fun to play with for me.

Bring ricochet back + 1200 range for pistols and i’m fine.

Tyrs Klinge ~Thief~

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Posted by: Sagat.3285

Sagat.3285

So, I’ve seen tons of “but melee staff cannot give Thieves anything new mimimi” posts… Well, then let me ask you: Does the Thief have a lot of close range CC like dazes and knockdowns? No? Well maybe that is what a melee staff could provide. Lots of hard CC paired with good damage.

That seems close to s/p with the exception of knockdown the only one we have being on a stupid trap, if the spec is CC focused we are not really lacking into that and it’s still melee dps so what’s the point. The only special thing would be a block and also pretty much everything but d/p paired with SB is seriously lacking vs players that is.

“Revenant is actual proof that devs read the necromancer forum” – Pelopidas.2140
The Dhuumfire thread

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Posted by: Astralporing.1957

Astralporing.1957

Well, then let me ask you: Does the Thief have a lot of close range CC

you… don’t play thief much, do you?

Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November

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Posted by: Genesis.8572

Genesis.8572

Shortbow is an annoying abortion of a ranged weapon. Yes it has good utility but it’s simply no fun to play with for me.

Bring ricochet back + 1200 range for pistols and i’m fine.

1200 range for pistols? The only pistol on 1200 range is the mesmer’s off-hand, and it’s all magic and phantasms.

Will Hawkins (Human Guardian)
Feryl Grimsteel (Charr Engineer)
Tarnished Coast

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Posted by: Random.4691

Random.4691

The staff doesn’t suit the thief class at all, as he ceases to be the thief/assassin type class at all. Martial arts monk is not a ninja, as some people seem to believe. Monks don’t rely on stealth. As for ninjas, their main weapon was katana, which is a sword, daggers, shortbows, and a bunch of throwing weapons. These are basically all the weapons that the GW2 thief can use to this point. Pistols would be exception, but it seems OK to have a ninja with a pistol in a game with steampank elements. The only suitable new weapon for the ninja among the existing ones would be a torch, as ninjas very often were used for sabotage. That and kits with throwing knives and granades would be the better choice over the staff, in my opinion. The only problem is that current thief is pretty much a ninja already.

As for the rifle, that makes the thief more of a secret agent class, that uses range weapon to kill an enemy from afar, probably has some tricks to disorient and fool them beforehand, and uses stealth to escape if needed. And this would also give the thieves what they lack – more range.

I hope it’s either one of those two, especially as both rifle and torch are two most underused weapons in the game.

You realize that it is kind of the point to make the thief not a thief with the specialization ?

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Posted by: sebradle.7034

sebradle.7034

The staff doesn’t suit the thief class at all, as he ceases to be the thief/assassin type class at all. Martial arts monk is not a ninja, as some people seem to believe. Monks don’t rely on stealth. As for ninjas, their main weapon was katana, which is a sword, daggers, shortbows, and a bunch of throwing weapons. These are basically all the weapons that the GW2 thief can use to this point. Pistols would be exception, but it seems OK to have a ninja with a pistol in a game with steampank elements. The only suitable new weapon for the ninja among the existing ones would be a torch, as ninjas very often were used for sabotage. That and kits with throwing knives and granades would be the better choice over the staff, in my opinion. The only problem is that current thief is pretty much a ninja already.

As for the rifle, that makes the thief more of a secret agent class, that uses range weapon to kill an enemy from afar, probably has some tricks to disorient and fool them beforehand, and uses stealth to escape if needed. And this would also give the thieves what they lack – more range.

I hope it’s either one of those two, especially as both rifle and torch are two most underused weapons in the game.

You realize that it is kind of the point to make the thief not a thief with the specialization ?

I think a lot of people miss that point about elite specs. Also it’s so interesting to see that we have so many ninja historians on these forums.

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Posted by: Seabreeze.8437

Seabreeze.8437

The staff doesn’t suit the thief class at all, as he ceases to be the thief/assassin type class at all. Martial arts monk is not a ninja, as some people seem to believe. Monks don’t rely on stealth. As for ninjas, their main weapon was katana, which is a sword, daggers, shortbows, and a bunch of throwing weapons. These are basically all the weapons that the GW2 thief can use to this point. Pistols would be exception, but it seems OK to have a ninja with a pistol in a game with steampank elements. The only suitable new weapon for the ninja among the existing ones would be a torch, as ninjas very often were used for sabotage. That and kits with throwing knives and granades would be the better choice over the staff, in my opinion. The only problem is that current thief is pretty much a ninja already.

As for the rifle, that makes the thief more of a secret agent class, that uses range weapon to kill an enemy from afar, probably has some tricks to disorient and fool them beforehand, and uses stealth to escape if needed. And this would also give the thieves what they lack – more range.

I hope it’s either one of those two, especially as both rifle and torch are two most underused weapons in the game.

You realize that it is kind of the point to make the thief not a thief with the specialization ?

I think a lot of people miss that point about elite specs. Also it’s so interesting to see that we have so many ninja historians on these forums.

+1 Yeah, pretty much.

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Posted by: Astralporing.1957

Astralporing.1957

I think a lot of people miss that point about elite specs.

Looking at Tempest suggests Devs miss that point too.

Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November

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Posted by: Genesis.8572

Genesis.8572

I think a lot of people miss that point about elite specs. Also it’s so interesting to see that we have so many ninja historians on these forums.

Based on what I have seen with the e-specs so far, I no longer think that’s the case. The e-specs simply do not diverge conceptually or mechanically far enough from the core profession.

Will Hawkins (Human Guardian)
Feryl Grimsteel (Charr Engineer)
Tarnished Coast

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Posted by: Rin.1046

Rin.1046

I think a lot of people miss that point about elite specs. Also it’s so interesting to see that we have so many ninja historians on these forums.

The elite specs are supposed to fill capability/playstyle/role gaps in the profession, not change them completely. They will have their own theme, which could be different to the base prof, but I doubt they will be so different you will not associate them with the base prof. It seems likely the elite prof for the thief will still be acrobatic and still utilitize the shadows in some way, but we won’t know for sure until it is revealed.

As to the comment about there being ‘so many’ ninja historians, that sounds like a dig to me. If so, what are you trying to achieve with it and is it really necessary?

Simplicity is complex.

Good feedback is key to getting the developers to listen to you.

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Posted by: DevilLordLaser.8619

DevilLordLaser.8619

On the subject of “why not just fix P/P so there’s no need for rifle?!”

I no longer have any confidence this is a realistically attainable goal. P/P has been butt for three years. For three years, it has been worse than Guard Scepter. It is the defining example of why any weapon (set) with a weak autoattack is itself weak – if the thing you spend 95% of your time doing is as completely, utterly, irrecoverably useless as Vital Shot is, your weapon is trash. They can’t get Body Shot right, either – they keep trying to make it some weird bass-ackwards awkward thing with a pointlessly short immobilize and some Vuln neither deep enough nor long enough to be useful – because, of course, if the immobilize was long enough to matter, or the vuln was big enough to matter, people’d spam the hell out of Body Shot.

P/P is why we’re never getting knockdowns on the initiative bar, ever. No, melee staff will not bring knockdowns. The only stun we have is Pistol Whip, and while Pistol Whip is superb in PvE, it’s also a slow stun that cannot, by nature, be rapidly spammed. We don’t have long dazes, either – Headshot is a great interrupt but it’s not much for control, simply because a 3-second daze would be overwhelmingly stupid when you can chain five of them back-to-back.

They’re married to Vital Shot being a condition AA while Unload, the big-damage skill, is a pure Power skill (another sign of an awful weapon set – mismatches between the requirements of the AA and the requirements of your big-punch skill). If they insist on retaining the too-short-to-work Bleed and the total lack of Power scaling on Body Shot, it needs to attack at least as fast as Crossfire does on the Ranger shortbow. That way sheer volume can at least sorta maybe halfway compensate for the fact that the bullet does five damage and the bleed does nine.

Seriously – an Earth sigil does more damage than Vital Shot. How is that a viable weapon? And Body Shot needs to be replaced altogether with something functional. What that functional is, I do not know, but Body Shot is pretty much completely pointless. 1s immobilize, 5-stack of Vuln for 3s…pretty much the only way to make that remotely useful is to fire it until your initiative runs dry, in order to spend your entire allotment of Init doing what one Bolas from a Warrior does.

The set’s been that way for three years, despite frequent calls of “this set is unusable, PLEASE do something with it ArenaNet?” And the Warrior doesn’t even use bolas anymore.

This is the weapon set we’re all supposed to be just perfectly happy to use instead of a rifle? Lemme ask you – would you run P/P Thief anywhere but Queensdale?

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Posted by: DevilLordLaser.8619

DevilLordLaser.8619

Since Revenant has weapon skills that both cost resource and have a short cooldown, why Thief specialization can’t have a cooldown on stun/knockdown skills?

Because it defeats and destroys the entire purpose of the Initiative system. if I have a skill with a hefty Initiative cost and also a forty-second cooldown…well, why exactly am I playing Thief again, instead of just dialing up a hammer Warrior?

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Posted by: Eponet.4829

Eponet.4829

Adding a rifle to this class would do exactly what specializations set out to do, bring a new play style to the class. Not improve the base class, no. But to bring a new play style to it.

Have you seen the Chronomancer reveal which is basically a Shatterer 2.0? Or the glorified Auramancer 2.0 Tempest Ele? ^^ At this point, saying sepcs add something new to the classes is basically lying to yourself… sadly.

I wasn’t aware that shatter builds were any good in PvE.

Everyone tells me that they’re a DPS loss and that it’s not worth shattering my phantasms unless it’s right as the boss is about to die.

So, I’ve seen tons of “but melee staff cannot give Thieves anything new mimimi” posts… Well, then let me ask you: Does the Thief have a lot of close range CC like dazes and knockdowns? No? Well maybe that is what a melee staff could provide. Lots of hard CC paired with good damage.

…You didn’t give us time to answer. The answer is yes, they do have a lot of close range CC.

Sword/Dagger has dazes when attacking from stealth
Sword/Pistol has pistol whip’s stun
Anything/Pistol has headshot.
Panic strikes locks down a target amazingly.
Sleight of Hand’s daze is amazingly useful, especially given its boon stripping quality.

Sword/Dagger pulls of a large number of dazes through steal, potentially though the stolen item, reduced cooldown on steal when evading attacks while using a sword, along with a ton of evades, and the cloak and dagger -> Tactical Strike combo.

Then, they can take scorpion wire, tripwire, or the very common basalisk venom for even more hard CC.

(edited by Eponet.4829)