Guild Wars 2

Greetings to all.

I wanted to add my two cents on the “we want a new class” & “we want a 3rd heavy class” debates. It’s quite difficult to add a new class while respecting the lore and without making use on classes that existed in GW1… or other games.

Therefore, I will base my suggestion on a manga I particularly love, Claymore (link provided for those who don’t know the story).

In short: it’s about genetically modified warriors, whose creators used demons’ flesh and blood to create half-human half-demon fighters. They can release a bit of this demonic power to increase their abilities, yet at a cost: they might turn into demons, Awakened Beings, themselves.

Therefore, I present you my third heavy class.

Dragoon (actually I can’t find something good enough, so it’s that for the moment)

Lore
Zhaitan was defeated, and another dragon awoke short after. After all this time, there were still five dragons free to destroy everything. Tyria knew what they were capable of. But what if the best way to destroy these dragons was to… use their power? The Pact managed to recover samples of each and every dragon: Zhaitan’s flesh, Jormag’s and Kralkatorrik’s corruptions, Mordremoth’s vines, Primodus’ lava, and Bubbles’ scale. With these samples, they could create new fighters using their enemies’ weapons: thus was born the Dragoon. Time to fight fire with fire…

Abilities
Dragoons are able to attune to dragons, granting them special capabilites and boosts in some stats. However, these attunements come at a cost. Dragoons have a Corruption bar, which fills slowly (for about 30 seconds) when they are attuned to a dragon. During 17 seconds, nothing happens, but for the following 13 seconds, Dragoons will become subject to corruption.

• Attuning to Zhaitan (F1) will grant stacks of poison and torment.
• Attuning to Jormag (F2) will grant stacks of chilled and vulnerability.
• Attuning to Kralkatorrik (F3) will grant stacks of confusion and crippled.
• Attuning to Mordremoth (F4) will grant stacks of bleeding and immobilized.
  Ending an attunement (pressing a second time the F-keys) will slowly decrease the Corruption bar (1.25 times faster than filling it). If the bar reaches 100% the character is downed. Attunements also modify the characters’ appearance: the Dragoon’s right arm will display signes of the ED’s corruption: a branded arm, a corpse-like arm, an arm made of ice, and an arm twisted in vines.

Weapons
Dragoons cannot swap weapons and can only use two weapons.

• Greatsword
  While it’s a two-heanded weapon, Dragoons will use it with only one hand. They can also use their other hand to hit the enemy. For example, skill 4 could have Dragoons rush to an enemy and punch them. If the blow hits, Dragoons will hit a second time. In Normal mode, Dragoons will be rather slow but strong.
• Swords main and off-hand
  Dragoons will be faster in attacks but not that strong. They hit fast and accurately. They hit in a small AoE (around 400).

• Both weapon skill sets can be replaced while attuning to a dragon.
  • Attuned to Zhaitan: Dragoons will deal short-ranged conditions.
  • Attuned to Jormag: Dragoons will be able to attack at medium range with ice attacks.
  • Attuned to Kralkatorrik: Dragoons will attack at a short-distance but will be more resistant.
  • Attuned to Mordremoth: Dragoons will be able to attack at long range with vine-oriented attacks.

(I have some ideas for some skills but now I’m just presenting the style).

But what about Primordus and Bubbles? Simple: they are two elites. Dragoons will transform for 20 seconds into a fire being on land and a water being underwater, each of them being granted 5 new skills.

What do you think of my suggestion?

/ Reserved for development if needed /

This is an old kind of suggestion that just takes different forms, for both race and profession suggestions.

And the answer is that given current lore, it just won’t work.

Dragon magic corrupts, twisting the minds of those affected. “Attuning” to a dragon would do nothing but make the user a dragon minion. Only means known to counter it is the Altar of Glaust and a specific ritual that must be used there. Such a profession would make zero sense in the personal storyline; a new profession should make sense in the personal storyline (and hopefully, a new race too, ideally – otherwise it’d need an entirely unique personal storyline – whereas if it is to use the old PS, it only needs unique PS for chapters 1-3, with some new voice overs and dialogue text rewrites throughout, especially if it’s an exotic race).

And mechanically, the corruption bar is such a hindrance it’d be easily underpowered to all other professions unless the boons from the attune skills are overpowered, in which again balance issue.

You’re absolutely right, but doesn’t the PS completely prevent any addition to the game?

It would only work for new races (they could have joined during Zhaitan’s era), but every class has been known for quite some time, so either “we” discover new fighting styles that could not have experienced Zhaitan’s era as we saw it, or they could simply add some and change the story because after all it’s just some lines of code and pixels…

Keeping in mind that if they were to add something that would respect the PS, it is easy to believe that we have now the complete cast of races and classes: we will never use Largos, or Tengu, and we will never discover new fighting styles as they do not fit in te timeline. Plus, we will have to wait until the 3rd dragon to maybe get something new: new races/classes don’t fit in the PS, and they would be obliged to wait until lvl80 (and use 90g/10 bucks) to join in the battle against Mordremoth…

After all in GW1 a ritualist or a dervish could experience Prophecies storyline. Sometimes it requires a tiny sacrifice to add something new.

Back on topic
My idea was that each attunement would increase the character’s power, just like Lich Form or Tornado. The mechanic of the class I presented might appear underpowered but if would need constant attention to the bar and strategic use of the attunements: if used too early the characters would be caught mid-fight with conditions on them, if used too often the characters could be downed.

Regarding corruption, Sylvari are resistant to ED’s corruption, maybe some studies from the asura could have brought to light what makes the Sylvari incorruptible? They would then, with the help of the Pact, find the knowledge to make it stable and viable when implemented in other races, as well as a few volunteers to try out their new discoveries.

And thank you very much for your comments

VergilDeZaniah.3295:

You’re absolutely right, but doesn’t the PS completely prevent any addition to the game?

It would only work for new races (they could have joined during Zhaitan’s era), but every class has been known for quite some time, so either “we” discover new fighting styles that could not have experienced Zhaitan’s era as we saw it, or they could simply add some and change the story because after all it’s just some lines of code and pixels…

Professions actually have little to do in the storyline, so even exotic professions wouldn’t make much of a difference. The issue comes in when you have lore-conflicting things like “cleansed dragon minions”.

It is a heavy plot point that dragon corruption is irreversible and, well, corruptive, so the PC being someone who utilizes dragon corruption to empower himself is a huge faux pass. It makes little logical sense.

If it were something like a necromancer-styled warrior (basically a dark version of Guardians), or a stereotypical kungfu monk like profession, then they’d work easily. But using dragon corruption/minions/magic as a basis will not. It’s too plot centric.

VergilDeZaniah.3295:

Keeping in mind that if they were to add something that would respect the PS, it is easy to believe that we have now the complete cast of races and classes: we will never use Largos, or Tengu, and we will never discover new fighting styles as they do not fit in te timeline. Plus, we will have to wait until the 3rd dragon to maybe get something new: new races/classes don’t fit in the PS, and they would be obliged to wait until lvl80 (and use 90g/10 bucks) to join in the battle against Mordremoth…

It’s an explicit statement throughout the game that there are largos and tengu who act individually. Your PC would be one such case for those races. Kodan would work too, as we see some kodan who’ve migrated to Lion’s Arch (pre-destruction), work with the Pact (in Frostgorge), and even are seen in the Chantry of Secrets.

VergilDeZaniah.3295:

After all in GW1 a ritualist or a dervish could experience Prophecies storyline. Sometimes it requires a tiny sacrifice to add something new.

Which were explicitly stated to be “you are experiencing events that happened already.”

They could do such a thing for the Personal Story, but it doesn’t seem like that’s the route ArenaNet is taking with GW2, given how different the story steps in GW2 and the missions in GW1 function.

VergilDeZaniah.3295:

Regarding corruption, Sylvari are resistant to ED’s corruption, maybe some studies from the asura could have brought to light what makes the Sylvari incorruptible? They would then, with the help of the Pact, find the knowledge to make it stable and viable when implemented in other races, as well as a few volunteers to try out their new discoveries.

Sylvari immunity comes in the form of “we die, instead of become corrupted.” And it still wouldn’t work since it would be well after the current timeline, which is already giving hints without asuran influence as to the source of the sylvari ‘defense’: the Pale Tree and the connection to her (the Dream). Something that can’t be transferred to other races.

I totally got the point now, thanks. Too bad, I wanted a Claymore-like warrior

However, Largos and Tengu cannot become playable characters in the PS: during Zhaitan era, Tengu were neutral and not involved at all in the fight against an ED (they only thought of helping after Mordremoth awakening), and for the Largos… It wouldn’t make sense since we would be talking to Sayeh al’Rajihd like we are not part of the Largos.

I do agree that GW2 is taking another path, but we have two choices: either we won’t have characters that could witness what already happened, or we won’t have any new race at all :-/

Minor point, but a dragoon is a foot soldier (fights on foot), who travels to battle on a mount.

VergilDeZaniah.3295:

However, Largos and Tengu cannot become playable characters in the PS: during Zhaitan era, Tengu were neutral and not involved at all in the fight against an ED (they only thought of helping after Mordremoth awakening), and for the Largos… It wouldn’t make sense since we would be talking to Sayeh al’Rajihd like we are not part of the Largos.

I do agree that GW2 is taking another path, but we have two choices: either we won’t have characters that could witness what already happened, or we won’t have any new race at all :-/

Both right and wrong there.

While it is true that the races of the three most desired “new playable race” (tengu, largos, and kodan) were not involved with Zhaitan, Scarlet, or Mordremoth (at this point), it’s heavily pointed out that individuals do. We have a tengu who’s joined the Vigil (Fuji Shadowmane, iirc) and one who joined the Pact (Izu Steelshrike) – who’s to say that there couldn’t have been a tengu who joined one of the three Orders and got paired with Forgal/Seiran/Tybalt? Who’s to say that a largos couldn’t have joined an Order for the chance of a better prey (or perhaps after being exiled from his/her people, or something else) and get paired with the right mentor? Or a kodan (we already see some kodan in the Chantry of Secrets as I said) joining an Order?

And in all, the only mandatory dialogue changes are in the Apatia storyline – which currently is cut from the game. If memory serves me right, Sayeh is never introduced as an “uncommon race” to the player via Trahearne, but simply just “she doesn’t like crowds and we fear others would be scared by her presence” – at most, there may be a text dialogue in a single location that asks what Sayeh is – and it wouldn’t be hard to add a “if not largos, then show this dialogue branch” in that one thing.

So aside from one currently-not-in-game-though-may-come-back storyline, the need to change things is minimal, so long as the first three chapters (prior to joining an Order) is done right.

Wanderer: anything but a mount related class! XD Actually the term was first used for mounted infantry, but later was also used for foot soldiers. However I chose the name as a reference to Final Fantasy and I’d gladly welcome any suggestion

Konig: you’re absolutely right indeed. I believe that nobody would actually care about other races not being plainly involved in the past storylines.

All I actually wish for is some renewal of gameplay and lore: why the last two years have been fun, my friends and I end up doing the same things over and over again… Thanks for all your comments!

VergilDeZaniah.3295:

In short: it’s about genetically modified warriors, whose creators used demons’ flesh and blood to create half-human half-demon fighters. They can release a bit of this demonic power to increase their abilities, yet at a cost: they might turn into demons, Awakened Beings, themselves.

Only watched the anime but from what I picked up in the wikia it’s not really demon flesh, rather the flesh of the Asarakam (Dragon Kin) is used to produce a parasite which infects human to create a Yoma whose flesh is then placed into a human to produce a claymore. But yeah I get where you’re coming from.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Dragon magic corrupts, twisting the minds of those affected. “Attuning” to a dragon would do nothing but make the user a dragon minion. Only means known to counter it is the Altar of Glaust and a specific ritual that must be used there. Such a profession would make zero sense in the personal storyline; a new profession should make sense in the personal storyline (and hopefully, a new race too, ideally – otherwise it’d need an entirely unique personal storyline – whereas if it is to use the old PS, it only needs unique PS for chapters 1-3, with some new voice overs and dialogue text rewrites throughout, especially if it’s an exotic race).

Well the Inquest had some mild success in utilizing Dragon Energy so it’s not completely impossible.

Strictly speaking, at this point, if a hypothetical dragon magic using class had their own story that started after Arah Explorable, then I COULD see it working as someone that’s been cleansed since Twitchy (possibly even starting at or near to 80 similar to WoW’s death knights, only available to players that have another character at appropriate level). However, I’m not convinced it will add enough mechanically for it to be worth it.

Incidentally, regarding the idea of wielding two-handed swords in one hand while punching with the other – I don’t think that’s really necessary. Such skills could always just have the character remove a hand from the sword, punch, and put their hand back on the sword. Or half-swording techniques could be employed to bash the enemy with the hilt. A better method of incorporating unarmed combat, though, would be the introduction of a ‘brass knuckles’-type weapon.

CureForLiving.5360:

Only watched the anime but from what I picked up in the wikia it’s not really demon flesh, rather the flesh of the Asarakam (Dragon Kin) is used to produce a parasite which infects human to create a Yoma whose flesh is then placed into a human to produce a claymore. But yeah I get where you’re coming from.

Let’s say I summarized inaccurately not to be too heavy, but thanks! (and you should read the manga, while I loved the anime the manga is faaaar better ^^)

draxynnic.3719:

Strictly speaking, at this point, if a hypothetical dragon magic using class had their own story that started after Arah Explorable, then I COULD see it working as someone that’s been cleansed since Twitchy (possibly even starting at or near to 80 similar to WoW’s death knights, only available to players that have another character at appropriate level). However, I’m not convinced it will add enough mechanically for it to be worth it.

Incidentally, regarding the idea of wielding two-handed swords in one hand while punching with the other – I don’t think that’s really necessary. Such skills could always just have the character remove a hand from the sword, punch, and put their hand back on the sword. Or half-swording techniques could be employed to bash the enemy with the hilt. A better method of incorporating unarmed combat, though, would be the introduction of a ‘brass knuckles’-type weapon.

It was more from an aesthetical point of view. But to avoid the creation of a new fighting stance, of course these characters could simply remove a hand from the sword.

Sick reference, Bro.

I agree, a Dragon Knight could be no lore-friendly, but I like the concept of a Dark Knight ( Hell, my second character in WoW was a Death Knight)

I just don’t know how it can be in game, lore-wise. Maybe a kind of Demonist, who summon power from the Mist ?

I discussed this with my brother before, and we came up with a number of ideas for a Dragoon class. The first is its mechanic. Attuning to a dragon is too close to the elementalist’s mechanic, so instead we think there should be two modes to the dragoon: Ground and Air.

On the Ground, the Dragoon is more susceptible to melee and can absorb 40% of projectiles. Hits heavily but slowly in this mode.

In the Air, the Dragoon makes all melee “glancing[50% damage]” and projectile damage is slightly increased against it. Air is more susceptible to CC as it is hard to impossible to get any stability in the air.

Conditions are always effective.

The Dragoon will have a single weapon set which changes its skills depending on whether the Dragoon is in ground or air mode. Ground mode will generally be melee, and Air mode will generally be ranged. Each skill from 1-5 will be based on a dragon[Underwater being DSD], meaning Fire/Lava, Earth/Plants, Ice, Crystal/Air, and Undeath.

The Dragoon’s weakness, though, is its lack of healing and damage mitigation outside of its modes, so it does not have the healing of the Guardian nor the Stances of the Warrior. Simply put, it relies on its mechanic to survive.

It’s main conditions will be Cripple, Chill, Torment, Burn/Bleed, and Immobilize. Most of these are movement-impeding conditions which has synergies with the mechanic as it prevents enemies from easily changing what type of damage they’re using[Melee, Range].

Well, that’s all my thoughts on this at the moment.

Oh, and lore wise, maybe the User’s are like Subject Alpha, but control and use the Dragon Energies inside to counter each other, like a balance like in the Eternal Alchemy? They use uncorrupted magic to balance it all.

Bigtony: I like the idea of the mist summons! Actually, you gave me and idea (I will develop it under my answer for Dondagora).

Dondagora: I also like the idea, but wouldn’t it be difficult to navigate an airborne character? What about terrain and such? For example: if the airborne state means the character is (let’s say) 6ft up in the air, would it take terrain in consideration? If yes, characters can become stuck in front of a stone or something, which might appear a bit silly. If no, these characters could be abused: if I make my character airborne on the highest point in Lion’s Arch, and if it doesn’t take terrain into consideration, the character could fly up high on the map… I like the idea but I assume it would be hard to make it happen, don’t you think?

So, to continue the idea Bigtony gave me: a warrior that would buff himself using a summoned spirit. The F1 skill would be a selectable communion (maybe some like with the Lich, or Shiro? You know, lore related spirits), and would use communion points: during combat, the fighter gains points like adrenaline, each point means 1 second of communion (maximum 10?). The character’s skills will change during that time, granting powers according to the summon. These fighters could have 3 or 4 different spirits to unite with. I like the idea of a character changing in a normal playstyle (not just elites)