Guild Wars 2

Me and a friend were talking about why the gods do not do anything about the dragons and we started to talk about whether the gods or dragons would win if the dragons made their way into the mists and fought the gods directly there. This ended up bringing up a whole load of things. I couldn’t help but seeing whole swaths of territory within the mists corrupted to the dragons, and vast devastation from battles of beings of such great power. But it hit me, what would happen if the Mists were destroyed. I mean no matter the outcome of a prolonged battle between the dragons and the gods the Mists would undoubtedly be damaged to the brink of total devastation, and I can only imagine what would happen to the world and the realms within should the mists be destroyed. Perhaps this, right here, is the reasoning behind the gods disappearing. Because of the fact that an all out war between the gods and dragons on Tyria would bring utter devastation, and in the mists, the outcome might be far worse.

Narcemus.1348:

But it hit me, what would happen if the Mists were destroyed. I mean no matter the outcome of a prolonged battle between the dragons and the gods the Mists would undoubtedly be damaged to the brink of total devastation, and I can only imagine what would happen to the world and the realms within should the mists be destroyed. Perhaps this, right here, is the reasoning behind the gods disappearing. Because of the fact that an all out war between the gods and dragons on Tyria would bring utter devastation, and in the mists, the outcome might be far worse.

You can’t destroy the Mists. You can destroy places in the Mists but not the Mists itself.

I have to kind of agree with exelion. The mist kinda feels like a more populated outer space. It goes on for essentially forever, and it’s mostly full of nothing but...mist.

It’s entirely possible there is some is some key point or another though. That if that gets wrecked in some way bad things could happen. Hell, we could have such a thing in reality in outer space, we don’t have any way to know.

So I would still throw the OP’s theory into reasonable possibility territory. Just corrupting big swaths of mists real estate just for the sake of corrupting it would mean jack kitten though.

This reminds me of something I was puzzling over with regards to the Mists and Worlds. Since each server (Fort Aspenwood, Tarnished Coast, Blacktide etc.) is akin to a separate world, with each of these worlds battling in the Mists for domination and (presumably) the Favour of the Gods, is each World essentially a clone universe of each other?

By that extension, does that mean that there are actually infinite copies of Primordus/Jormag/Zhaitan, but only one of each god? If so, considering how powerful the Elder Dragons are, what would happen if 2, 10, or 100 Jormags were to travel to the Mists and assault the gods themselves?

Ooo. The mantle of god may actually be to serve as gate keeper so nothing like that happens. so, they may not be able to beat the dragons outside of the mists but they may be able to close the “gate” when the dragons awake.

Zaxares.5419:

This reminds me of something I was puzzling over with regards to the Mists and Worlds. Since each server (Fort Aspenwood, Tarnished Coast, Blacktide etc.) is akin to a separate world, with each of these worlds battling in the Mists for domination and (presumably) the Favour of the Gods, is each World essentially a clone universe of each other?

By that extension, does that mean that there are actually infinite copies of Primordus/Jormag/Zhaitan, but only one of each god? If so, considering how powerful the Elder Dragons are, what would happen if 2, 10, or 100 Jormags were to travel to the Mists and assault the gods themselves?

I don’t think that the dragons can reach the mists, but it’s important to remember that the power of the dragons rival the power of the gods. So they cannot fight every dragon in every world (server).
On the other hand, they appear to have drained some of Zaitan’s power while they lived in Arah. That means that they drained it multiple times since there are multiple versions of Arah. The gods are very powerful indeed. Abaddon was so powerful that he corrupted every version of the world, while the dragons only corrupted their version of the world.

Jormag’s minions are already in the Mists folks. Play norn Defend the Mists storyline – one of the Wayfarer Foothills events also deals with this, as well as a skill challenge in Lornar’s Pass and another in Frostgorge Sound (those blue portals lead into the Mists).

Regarding the nature of servers… well, we know that multiple dimensions exist, via the Infinity Ball storyline and WvW, though the Infinity Ball storyline was more of multiple futures, so its hard to say multiple Elder Dragons exist, though they probably do. But each such dimenasion isn’t a clone – there are differences. Guild Wars seems to follow the “infinite future theory” of quantum physics… which isn’t my forte but basically any the world splits off at any possible change and creating parallels whenever a new possibility unfolds. Meaning there will be millions of dimensions where the Elder Dragons exist, and millions more where they don’t – or did but died. And so long as the gods don’t originate from the Mists themselves (nothing says they do), then there’d be just as many of the Six Gods.

Supposedly, at least. I don’t think that’s really the case, personally.

Lord, that is as confusing as all get out when it comes to segregation of dragons and gods. I’ve always kind of liked how the, I know people might boo me for this, Wheel of Time used the theory of the Multiverse. In his story, Robert Jordan pretty much made it out so that there was 1 world, and from this one world came loads of copies, which ranged from similar to extremely different. But in the end, all they were was possible futures, shadows really, of the 1 world that truly existed.

Well that might be the case for Guild Wars too, considering the Pale Tree’s line during the personal story step A Light in the Darkness about how the future is always changing.

The whole multiple dimensions and time travel effects are still fairly up in the air, all we know is that the Mists connects all places and all times, so through them travel to any place at any time is possible.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Well that might be the case for Guild Wars too, considering the Pale Tree’s line during the personal story step A Light in the Darkness about how the future is always changing.

The whole multiple dimensions and time travel effects are still fairly up in the air, all we know is that the Mists connects all places and all times, so through them travel to any place at any time is possible.

I’m not talking about time travel nor possible futures. I’m talking about all the game servers which exist in parallel.
In GW1 there were only 5 gods (then 6) to all the servers. Even when you fight against Abaddon, you see only the gods’ avatars, since they cannot be in more than one place at a time. Only one sever had the favor of the gods and that was it.
If the gods have not gotten copies of themselves in these 250 years, there are only 6 gods to look after the current 52 servers (a quantity that might increase over time)

In GW1, servers didn’t mean diddlysquat for lore.

In GW2, servers merely represent different worlds in WvW and otherwise means diddlysquat for lore.

Dat’s just about it. Servers is a mechanics thing.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

In GW1, servers didn’t mean diddlysquat for lore.

In GW2, servers merely represent different worlds in WvW and otherwise means diddlysquat for lore.

Dat’s just about it. Servers is a mechanics thing.

Yea I don’t really understand where this notion of each server representing an alternate world came from.

exelion.2369:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

In GW1, servers didn’t mean diddlysquat for lore.

In GW2, servers merely represent different worlds in WvW and otherwise means diddlysquat for lore.

Dat’s just about it. Servers is a mechanics thing.

Yea I don’t really understand where this notion of each server representing an alternate world came from.

Different servers represent different worlds to every extent, even lore.

One thing I would like to point out. If servers are other world, then how come there weren’t 52 other versions of us and Kormir all fighting Abaddon in the Realm of Torment, and there would now be only 5 regular gods and 52 versions of Kormir. I think honestly all that we know about the “other worlds” is that they are realms within the mists that are attacking the WvW that we know of. After that it’s entirely speculation.

It’s lore in the loosest sense of the word. The idea of servers as alternate worlds is only mentioned in WvW, and by those wvw recruiters in the cities. No mention of it in pve.

So yeah, it’s lore, but only to give some way to justify the giant pvp battles.

Ludovicus.7980:

Different servers represent different worlds to every extent, even lore.

Where is this stated or even implied?

Beyond World versus World, servers hold no potential effect on lore. In lore there are other words, but nothing says that charr, asura, sylvari, etc. exist outside Tyria.

World versus World is a, in lore, simply a battle in the Mists against an unknown enemy which is called evil (two, minimum, enemies). This can mean a number of things, and doesn’t mean the existence of servers holds any weight on lore. Though the server we may face changes periodically, in lore, the enemies in WvW may always be the same (in a general sense).

Back to the original point of dragons in the mists, I think that would actually be a prime way to get rid of the dragons for good lol. The Mists are so eternally vast that even as big as the dragons are they are but miniscule specks, they could no more destroy or alter the mists than a human could alter the placement of stars in the universe. Now could they find one of the isolated “mist worlds (fractals)” we’ve seen floating around and corrupt/consume it? Yeah definitely. But really that won’t affect the entirety of the Mists themselves. I was going to use black holes as an example then realized I don’t like the taste of my own foot so gonna leave that alone lol. But you get the idea. It’s even possible if the dragons ever did make it into the mists, they would consume so much energy they would go into a coma, maybe even die (because they are insatiable, and thus could in theory eat themselves to death, given enough energy/magic) and the Mists have more than enough to do that to every one of (the known) dragons.

The issue with your thoughts is that the Elder Dragons devour magic and the more magic they devour, the stronger they get.

The Mists appear to be huge concentrations of magic. E.g., the Mists would be the ultimate buffet for the Elder Dragons.

The Mists themselves are proto-matter which makes all things – this includes magic, physical entities, and souls (which in of themselves are energy sources and equally food for Elder Dragons). They randomly create things themselves, that doesn’t mean the Elder Dragons can’t just consume the Mists and ignore the creations.

And I doubt the Elder Dragons would “consume so much […] they would go into a coma” – sure, if you or I ate too much food, this could happen, but as Elder Dragons don’t consume in the traditional sense, it’s a different matter. And even then, nothing says that the Elder Dragons would continuously devour the Mists. They are said to be insatiable, but that’s not the same as continuous.

I believe that the God’s get their magic off the dragons, example, building Arah. The dragons radiate magic while in slumber, and absorb it when they awake. Likewise it’s a natural cycle that the dragons wake up and fall asleep. My thoughts is that the gods obtained power from the dragons somehow when they were mere mortals and used it to their advantage. After hearing witnessed accounts of the dragons destruction and what it brings from a previous cycle, they disappear and hide in the mist to hopefully not lose their power.

This also goes back to another theory about humanity and that it’s origin is from south of Cantha and not another planet. Coming to Tyria was them coming to the continent Tyria. I also saw someone post an excerpt from The Orrian History Scrolls that I read awhile back in game and never really thought anything of it until now.

While the other gods focused on building Arah and beginning a new future, Lyssa gave them joy and helped them forget the past. …….When the building of Arah was completed Lyssa was commanded to join the other gods, though her tears fell like rain among the western road.

Another question I have is
First, what is so bad about the gods past/origin that Lyssa had to cheer them up and help them move on. Did they slaughter creatures for godhood, all I know is it must be really bad, or a hard decision.
Second, why was Lyssa COMMANDED to join the other gods in Arah. Were they hiding something we don’t know about?

http://www.wartower.de/forum/showthread.php?threadid=1038911
Let me know what you guys think. Have a great day >:)

Sadly this isn’t really entirely what this topic is about…

On to Konig, this is closer to what I see being true, and I could see this turning even more incredibly worse if the dragons found a way in which they could control the Mists, to an extent, the way that the gods do when they created their differing realms. I mean should a dragon figure out how to manipulate the mists and spawn minions from them, such as Abaddon’s demons, there would be no stopping them.

@Hunter: All indications we have show that at least three gods (Dwayna, Balthazar and Melandru – and possibly Lyssa as well, though that’s a weaker argument) were gods when they arrived on the world. Given recently translated old Chinese documents from Nightfall promotions about Abaddon, he too might have come from the Mists as a god.

It’s a proven fact, outright stated by developers at multiple points, that humanity came from another world – the question is instead where they first lived on the world of Tyria.

@Narcemus: Just to be nitpicky – nothing really says the gods created their realms. Given that the Spirits of the Wild hold sway over the afterlife as well (particularly Raven and the Underworld), it seems more likely that the gods are simply inhabitants that hold domain over them (one can think of them as kings and queens of the afterlife, I suppose).

True, nothing says the gods created their realms, but they definitely have the power to manipulate what was already created, at least, and to use the essence around them to create minions. Now I understand that we don’t know for a fact that Balthazar created the Eternals, or Dwayna, possibly, created the Harpies, but I believe we know for a fact that Abaddon had a hand in the creation of the Dreadspawn Maw and the Foundry of Failed Creations, which are factories for the creation of demons and Titans.

Actually, the Dreadspawn Maw is said to be a direct creation of the Mists, iirc. Just as the torment demons are (okay, Dreadspawn Maw isn’t explicitly said to be a creation from the Mists, but it is a demon broodmother and this is said about her: “Throughout the Mists there exist corrupted shards of existence where demons spawn. One such place is the horror, home to the Dreadspawn Maw. If we can find a way to destroy this demon, we can crush much of our enemy’s strength before it can be brought to bear against us.”). The Foundry of Failed Creations was altered by The Fury, where he then used it to turn souls into titans.

In short: The only thing the gods were credited with in regards to the Mists would be Abaddon altering the shape of a portion of the Realm of Torment that is Nightfallen Jahai, however this seems little different from Melandru terraforming, sans the fact that once the “terraforming” of Nightfallen Jahai was to be complete, it would become one with the actual Jahai.

I still hold to my theory that if there was a way, the dragons would find it. I mean we know the Mists themselves randomly make creatures, Razah. So it is possible that the dragons could come in and corrupt (terraform) vast portions of already created lands within the mists, while POSSIBLY finding a way to use the mists around them to create minions rather than having to find creatures to corrupt (in the case of Kralkatorrik and Jormag). Here it actually makes sense that at the very lead Primordius would have an advantage because he already uses the primary building blocks of the land around him to create his minions.