Guild Wars 2

Daniel Handler.4816:

I can’t go back in time to withdraw the accusation, even if I recognize their stance in the present.

What you can currently do is apologise.

Not only is this an online forum, we are also talking about things that don’t exist.

I’m not sure that this has relevance to anything being discussed. Both of these are presumably acknowledged facts by everyone in the forums. I don’t see a need to bring this up.

We all should be in the habit of asking for clarity, myself included.

I believe in this instance the offender was the word “where”. It can refer to origin, but also to immediate location.

I’m not sure that the misunderstanding can be attributed to a single word. Phrasing or misreading can lead to it as well.

The discussion has also somewhat derailed, partially because of my desire to prove alternatives, and partly because of the nature of the lore itself.

I can constrain the Pale Tree’s limitations however I want but there will always be the will of the Dream.

It doesn’t matter whether ALITD is from the future or non sylvari because the Dream could always bestow whatever knowledge it pleased. Proving the Sylvari only section means nothing to the overall argument.

All we know is that the Pale Tree realized what Scarlet was doing. And from our current understanding, that means some sort of information regarding the All was communicated over the Dream.

I would assume that indicates the experience is traumatic enough for upload, but it could be the Dream just said “hey Pale Tree, Caera is looking at something bad.”

Moreover, even if it could be uploaded and synthesized like the OP scenario, perhaps it’s unnecessary because of some unknown lore (e.g the all is already present in the Dream or Pale Tree)

What I hope is that the lore concerning the Dream is explored further in the game. What knowledge does it hypothetically contain? How can we access that?

As pointed out before, particularly traumatic experiences don’t get uploaded to the Dream. Therefore, putting all sylvari into the machine won’t work.

Also, I think the Pale Tree’s misgiving about Scarlet using Omadd’s machine was more about the potential knowledge of Mordremoth shaking sylvari society to the core, rather than anything to do with the All. I doubt the Dream contains the All, but the Dream DID have the info that the sylvari were dragon minions (because as we know, Wynne died to keep that secret). It turned out to be worse, which I don’t think the Pale Tree predicted. It feels like the Pale Tree knew that Scarlet might find out about Mordremoth by using the machine, but didn’t know that Mordremoth could exploit Scarlet’s now ‘opened’ mind. There’s no way to know what the Pale Tree’s thoughts about what Scarlet found out about until she tells us. We also don’t know whether the Pale Tree knew about the All or just worried about the knowledge of Mordremoth getting out. There’s a lot more to this and I hope we get more info soon.

I’m not going to apologize for my own cynicism. But I will try to avoid misunderstandings in the future. An online forum removes body language, facial expressions, and tone. Made up topics strain the divide between literal and metaphorical. We all can do better.

The Dream does gather particularly traumatic experiences, but not repeat trauma. This is why the Nightmare Court tortures people and why they eventually need new victims.

The Pale Tree’s knows everything that is uploaded by Sylvari. When she realised what Scarlet was doing that is an indication that some or all of the experience was transfered to the Dream, and thus brought to her attention. There is no hive mind. It is possible the Pale Tree used some alternative mechanism, but I will go with our current understanding.

You completely sidestepped any wrongdoing on your part and I’d like to call you out on that because that is not okay. Admitting you were wrong and apologising for it is the right thing to do. You barely acknowledged that you were wrong and disregarded it by saying “we can all do better” instead of owning your own mistake.

You’re obviously free to do as you wish, i’m certainly no authority figure, but i also have the right to call you out.

Also, my bad on the uploading of traumatic experiences (that’s how you handle being wrong).

The Pale Tree’s knows everything that is uploaded by Sylvari. When she realised what Scarlet was doing that is an indication that some or all of the experience was transfered to the Dream, and thus brought to her attention. There is no hive mind. It is possible the Pale Tree used some alternative mechanism, but I will go with our current understanding.

Konig said earlier:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

It should be noted that not all memories go to the Dream, and traumatic experiences (such as going in that machine… especially forced into it) can lead sylvari towards the Nightmare.

So not everything experienced by the Sylvari is uploaded. In fact we may never know what was uploaded to the Dream from Scarlet’s experience.

It’s well known that there’s no hive mind between the Pale Tree and the sylvari. It’s possible that because of Scarlet’s now ‘opened’ mind while in Omadd’s machine was the reason the Pale Tree was able to contact her directly. We don’t know though, clarification from devs would help.

EDIT: So you’re calling me a hypocrite after I proved a contradiction and proved you wrong. You can do as you wish. But you’re also wrong.

EDIT 1: After some thinking, I’ve realised that I have taken things too far, and for that I would like to apologise. I got caught up in a whirlwind of emotions and frustrations, and that’s no excuse. So I’m sorry. I’m not going to amend any posts because I feel it’s important for transparency to keep available what I did and said wrong. I’m sorry.

@castle you absolutely have the right to call me out. But I will not apologize for the accusation. My obligation is to clarify but it is not a one way street. Moreover you are asking on behalf of a third party.

I am not an authority figure. But if you are going to advocate over tone and misunderstandings, you should check yourself first. I have made no contradiction, nor has anything been objectively proven regarding ALITD. Read Drax’s summary of the argument if you still don’t get it.

I’m not going to call you on blatant lies, nor refer to you as a strawman. But you are a hypocrite.

@drax this discussion is over. Thank you for your contribution. We need more info.