Guild Wars 2

… Scarlet know Caithe’s secret?
Did they ever explain that part cause I have no idea?
Or is it just cause “she saw the Eternal Alchemy, she knows everything, she knows everyones secret” and such.

I would assume that she knew about Mordemoth due do being directly influenced by it, which as far as I understand it, was the secret in question.

To expand on what lordkrall is saying. Caithe’s secret is that the Sylvari are minions of Mordremoth. Scarlet knew that because she had felt mordremoth’s influence.

Though I don’t think it’s very clear how Scarlet knew that Caithe knew that.

So far we have no real explanation for any of it.

We can`t even really say it was Mordremoth behind Scarlet, because we only have assumtions and no real ingame conclusive proof.

Jaken.6801:

So far we have no real explanation for any of it.

We can`t even really say it was Mordremoth behind Scarlet, because we only have assumtions and no real ingame conclusive prove.

We do have proof that Mordremoth was influencing Scarlet in some way. In the form of her journals, the fact that we also went into Omadd’s machine, and from the Pale Tree.

The journals said only that she was talking with someone. We have no conclusive answer who it was.

Guild Wars has enough beings who are capable to do so.

However, Mordremoth is of course the obvious one, so yeah. He is the most likely candidate.

I understand that Scarlet knew the fate of sylvari, or their ‘destiny’. I guess I didn’t what to be so specific cause of SPOILERS and all but here it comes.

I was wondering how Scarlet knew that Caithe killed Wynne. She specifically said “I know your dark secret”.

Jaken.6801:

The journals said only that she was talking with someone. We have no conclusive answer who it was.

Guild Wars has enough beings who are capable to do so.

However, Mordremoth is of course the obvious one, so yeah. He is the most likely candidate.

We know that is was Mordremoth. That’s the entire point behind her drill being used to wake him up. Anything else would make zero sense at all.

Since Scarlet we’ve even watched first hand the same thing that happened to her happen to another Sylvari. We know that it was him beyond any reasonable doubt.

Urosh Uchiha.9732:

I understand that Scarlet knew the fate of sylvari, or their ‘destiny’. I guess I didn’t what to be so specific cause of SPOILERS and all but here it comes.

I was wondering how Scarlet knew that Caithe killed Wynne. She specifically said “I know your dark secret”.

I do not think that the secret was Caithe killing Wynne but rather the fact that Sylvari was minions of Mordremoth.

FlamingFoxx.1305:

Jaken.6801:

The journals said only that she was talking with someone. We have no conclusive answer who it was.

Guild Wars has enough beings who are capable to do so.

However, Mordremoth is of course the obvious one, so yeah. He is the most likely candidate.

We know that is was Mordremoth. That’s the entire point behind her drill being used to wake him up. Anything else would make zero sense at all.

Since Scarlet we’ve even watched first hand the same thing that happened to her happen to another Sylvari. We know that it was him beyond any reasonable doubt.

Without any official confirmation I say no.
The devs haven`t said anything, even though they had a lot of oportunities and ingame there is also no conclusive proof for it.

Yes, Mordremoth makes sense. However still not confirmed.
Might I remind you on the writers stance: “If it`s not ingame, it can still be changed”

Glad somebody asked. Been brainstorming about it and played/rewatched the cutscenes but can’t see any trace of Scarlet. Is there something in that area that can be linked to Scarlet. (Seen some stuff laying around).

I just wonder how she knows about the secret.

Vrede.8942:

Glad somebody asked. Been brainstorming about it and played/rewatched the cutscenes but can’t see any trace of Scarlet. Is there something in that area that can be linked to Scarlet. (Seen some stuff laying around).

I just wonder how she knows about the secret.

Didn’t they say at the start of Mystery Cave mission that someone was here recently? When you are about to use the divine fire on the seal? Or was it my imagination.

And Jaken.6801, you are forgetting “If it’s in the game, it can still be changed!”. Like the mess up they made with the first sylvari death in Seeds of Truth.

FlamingFoxx.1305:

Jaken.6801:

The journals said only that she was talking with someone. We have no conclusive answer who it was.

Guild Wars has enough beings who are capable to do so.

However, Mordremoth is of course the obvious one, so yeah. He is the most likely candidate.

We know that is was Mordremoth. That’s the entire point behind her drill being used to wake him up. Anything else would make zero sense at all.

Since Scarlet we’ve even watched first hand the same thing that happened to her happen to another Sylvari. We know that it was him beyond any reasonable doubt.

While I was in support of the Sylvari-minion theory, I do think there was more to Scarlet’s awakening attempt. I think she did so out of fear and was determined to conquer the beast – much like how say Saren in the Mass Effect series was constantly studying Indoctrination for ways to counter it yet not realizing Sovereign was compelling him to cease on multiple occasions. Saren wanted to find a way to stop the Reapers but in doing so, he got too close and I think that’s what The Pale Tree was trying to prevent Scarlet from uncovering.

If anything I felt the Breach Maker was but one step of many that would have followed. Yet upon death she just gave up realizing her efforts were fruitless and that the world of Tyria really did need her… to some capacity or another.

Jaken.6801:

FlamingFoxx.1305:

Jaken.6801:

The journals said only that she was talking with someone. We have no conclusive answer who it was.

Guild Wars has enough beings who are capable to do so.

However, Mordremoth is of course the obvious one, so yeah. He is the most likely candidate.

We know that is was Mordremoth. That’s the entire point behind her drill being used to wake him up. Anything else would make zero sense at all.

Since Scarlet we’ve even watched first hand the same thing that happened to her happen to another Sylvari. We know that it was him beyond any reasonable doubt.

Without any official confirmation I say no.
The devs haven`t said anything, even though they had a lot of oportunities and ingame there is also no conclusive proof for it.

Yes, Mordremoth makes sense. However still not confirmed.
Might I remind you on the writers stance: “If it`s not ingame, it can still be changed”

It is in game. The dev’s don’t make outright statements about 90% of things. Because it is in game, there is no need to make a comment about it. It is fact.

“Pale Tree: Yes. In the past, my children have been immune. But Mordremoth’s corruption is powerful, and just as Zhaitan created the undead from so many creatures, so Mordremoth’s corruption can change you.

PC: Scarlet?

Pale Tree: I believe she opened herself to it when she let down the wall of her mind. Mordremoth’s corruption seeps in through the cracks in our willpower. Do not follow in her footsteps."

@Ronin, you could be absolutely right. It’s entirely possible that it was an act of desperation and she thought we would be able to kill Mordremoth for her if she woke him early. But that doesn’t change the fact that we know he was exerting, or at least trying to exert, influence over her.

Why?! how? is it impossible that Faolin told Scarlet that Caithe killed Wynne in cold blood, cause Faolin was there but didnt know why Caithe did what she did. I see a great possibility that Scarlet and Faolin met at some point.

Urosh Uchiha.9732:

I understand that Scarlet knew the fate of sylvari, or their ‘destiny’. I guess I didn’t what to be so specific cause of SPOILERS and all but here it comes.

I was wondering how Scarlet knew that Caithe killed Wynne. She specifically said “I know your dark secret”.

Scarlet also said that Faolain did not know the secret so the secret can’t be the fact that Caithe killed Wynne, it has to be that the Sylvari are (or were supposed to be) dragon minions. Which is a rather dark secret I think.

However, as FlamingFoxx said, while it makes that both Scarlet and Caithe know about the relationship between Modremoth and the Sylvari, it makes a lot less sense that Scarlet knows that Caithe knows about it.

sry missread. I thought u guys meant the “dark secret” was that caithe was a murderer :P. Maybe thats it, Scarlet maybe never knew that Caithe new about the dragon spawn thing. But actually ment that Caithes big secret was the fact she killed Wynne and just later on tried to reveal that by saying “ur fantastic caithe is a murderer”

Camarell.5648:

sry missread. I thought u guys meant the “dark secret” was that caithe was a murderer :P. Maybe thats it, Scarlet maybe never knew that Caithe new about the dragon spawn thing. But actually ment that Caithes big secret was the fact she killed Wynne and just later on tried to reveal that by saying “ur fantastic caithe is a murderer”

Wouldn’t make sense since she made it clear that Faolain didn’t know the secret.
Faolain did however know that Caithe did kill Wynne.

‘However, as FlamingFoxx said, while it makes that both Scarlet and Caithe know about the relationship between Modremoth and the Sylvari, it makes a lot less sense that Scarlet knows that Caithe knows about it’

That is exactly what I would like to see answered.

Vrede.8942:

‘However, as FlamingFoxx said, while it makes that both Scarlet and Caithe know about the relationship between Modremoth and the Sylvari, it makes a lot less sense that Scarlet knows that Caithe knows about it’

That is exactly what I would like to see answered.

And I don’t think we will see it answered because… Shock horror, they did not consider how implausible that is.

lordkrall.7241:

Camarell.5648:

sry missread. I thought u guys meant the “dark secret” was that caithe was a murderer :P. Maybe thats it, Scarlet maybe never knew that Caithe new about the dragon spawn thing. But actually ment that Caithes big secret was the fact she killed Wynne and just later on tried to reveal that by saying “ur fantastic caithe is a murderer”

Wouldn’t make sense since she made it clear that Faolain didn’t know the secret.
Faolain did however know that Caithe did kill Wynne.

Not necs. Faolain didn’t know why and how she killed her – ie that it was murder. Also, the whole thing with Caithe existed only to set up that secret. Otherwise there was no logic behind any of it really existing as a narrative.

Why does everyone know about the Jungle Dragon, such that Wynne can just toss The Terrible Truth About Sylvari out there matter of factly with no further explanation (“Caithe, we were created to be the minions of the flying spaghetti dragon!” “Noooo—- wait, what? Did you just make that up?”), even though no one mentions that there is such a thing until LS season 2? Sure, Caithe is a dedicated Dragon-hunter, so if anyone would know, she would, but it’s still a little weird.

Don’t actually think about the GW lore or writing like history, think about it more like the infamous Book from Anathem (basically, in a society of secluded monastic scientists and mathematicians, one of their punishments was transcribing and learning a book that, depending on the degree of offense, was inane, random, or subtly inconsistent and illogical in ways designed to drive the penitent crazy in trying to systematize it).

perilisk.1874:

Why does everyone know about the Jungle Dragon, such that Wynne can just toss The Terrible Truth About Sylvari out there matter of factly with no further explanation (“Caithe, we were created to be the minions of the flying spaghetti dragon!” “Noooo—- wait, what? Did you just make that up?”), even though no one mentions that there is such a thing until LS season 2? Sure, Caithe is a dedicated Dragon-hunter, so if anyone would know, she would, but it’s still a little weird.

Don’t actually think about the GW lore or writing like history, think about it more like the infamous Book from Anathem (basically, in a society of secluded monastic scientists and mathematicians, one of their punishments was transcribing and learning a book that, depending on the degree of offense, was inane, random, or subtly inconsistent and illogical in ways designed to drive the penitent crazy in trying to systematize it).

You’re absolutely right. It would be plausible that Wynne would know about Mordremoth since she has to have learnt the ‘truth’ somehow. But why does Caithe know? And if Caithe knows then how was it not rather common knowledge for Sylvari, and for the rest of the world, far before the story of GW2 starts. What a mess.

But wasn’t it common knowledge (at least between those that had to do with the Dragons) that there were six of them?
It was quite clearly known by the Asura, even that it was tied to plats. So why is it so far fetched to assume others knew as well?

As for the Sylvari themselves, that could rather easily be explained by the Dream. They simply come into the world with the knowledge of the Jungle Dragon (although not with ALL knowledge, clearly), either by someone having learned of it earlier, or by it being part of the “original” Dream.

lordkrall.7241:

But wasn’t it common knowledge (at least between those that had to do with the Dragons) that there were six of them?
It was quite clearly known by the Asura, even that it was tied to plats. So why is it so far fetched to assume others knew as well?

As for the Sylvari themselves, that could rather easily be explained by the Dream. They simply come into the world with the knowledge of the Jungle Dragon (although not with ALL knowledge, clearly), either by someone having learned of it earlier, or by it being part of the “original” Dream.

But it wasn’t common knowledge that there were six dragons or that there was a plant dragon. The Inquest knew, but other than information brought up in Season 1 & 2 we have no mention of the possibility of a 6th or plant dragon outside of CoE having a zone green and subject Alpha having skills with “Modremoth” in the name. If it was common knowledge for all Sylvari there would have been a lot more questioning going on and the Pale Tree would have known a lot more than she ever shared with us. And she wouldn’t actually have had to tell us the things that she did tell us because we would have all known there was a plant dragon.

What makes you so sure she doesn’t know more?
She quite clearly neglected to tell us certain rather important facts all those times we talked to her.
She didn’t really tell us there was a plant Dragon. She told us about Mordremoth specifically, not a “plant dragon”.

So it seems that whenever the is some mess in the lore they can always use the “AHA! But Caithe already knew cause of this or that from her past! No mess created, we have it all figured out”.

As I mentioned in another thread, with the revelation that Sylvari are indeed dragon minions, it stands to reason that the Dream is actually the “hive mind” of Mordremoth, in the same way that all other dragon minions share a hive mind with their Elder Dragon. Therefore, once Scarlet became corrupted, she knew everything Mordremoth did, and thus was able to access the Dream to learn things a normal Sylvari wouldn’t know, including Caithe’s secret.