Guild Wars 2

My wife finished GW1 with a competent ele. The only interest she’s ever shown in GW2 has been when I told her there was a gay male couple in beta. We’re in a very liberal US state, and we both are as well, so that really perked her interest in the game.

Just sayin’, in case Anet is interested in selling to females…

Just for clarification on Charr. We don’t say there are no gods, we says “Charr need no gods.” Basically, we believe the six exist(ed), but that they were forces to overthrow, not worship.

Fluffball.8307:

My wife finished GW1 with a competent ele. The only interest she’s ever shown in GW2 has been when I told her there was a gay male couple in beta. We’re in a very liberal US state, and we both are as well, so that really perked her interest in the game.

Just sayin’, in case Anet is interested in selling to females…

Must have been the two Sylvari. They’re the only male couple I’m aware of in the game. Which is a bit of a shame, but let’s be honest, when the world is facing the apocalypse, I don’t think people are typically going to be too worried about their dating life.

Vexander.9850:

Fluffball.8307:

My wife finished GW1 with a competent ele. The only interest she’s ever shown in GW2 has been when I told her there was a gay male couple in beta. We’re in a very liberal US state, and we both are as well, so that really perked her interest in the game.

Just sayin’, in case Anet is interested in selling to females…

Must have been the two Sylvari. They’re the only male couple I’m aware of in the game. Which is a bit of a shame, but let’s be honest, when the world is facing the apocalypse, I don’t think people are typically going to be too worried about their dating life.

I’ve heard murmurs of there being a gay male Norn npc in one of the Vigil story lines for Norn, but I’ve not personally done it myself. The npc is Wjerd Bladeborn, whom might have a crush on Fibharr Ygosson based on his dialog, or perhaps he’s implying that Fibharr has a crush on Famke the Fair instead.

To my knowledge there aren’t that many gay male npcs. You really have to look hard to find what few there are, and just about all of them are locked behind personal story choices that you might not even take. I can however count at least 5 gay female npcs quite readily. There are of course the big four; Caithe, Faolain, Marjory and Kasmeer. There is also a widowed female Charr named Fronis Darkstone in Diessa Plateau who tells the story of how her mate was killed by the Flame Legion. (She only has this dialog when she isn’t patrolling Ebonshore Plant) Sariel could also be interpreted as being in a relationship with Faolain. She gets very thorny about the prospect of Faolain wanting Caithe back.

I’d love for there to be a prominent male pairing that isn’t shown once and then promptly forgotten about (I.E. personal story), or just a case of fandom crack shipping. (no matter how much some of us may want it, Logan and Rytlock will never be a thing…)

Vexander.9850:

Honestly I could see Rytlock and Rox getting together. They seem like they’d make a pretty good pair. But yeah, there aren’t many male NPCs that you can tell are actually homosexual. Its never bothered me though. If the defining trait of a character is their sexuality, then you have a weak character in terms of narrative and development. That’s why I’ve always liked how Arena.net has done their relationships. Caithe and Faolin aren’t defined by loving one another. Kasmeer and Marjory aren’t -defined- by being a couple. Its a part of their character, but both are highly developed beyond that.

The way I’d go about it would be to have a new major character who is male and homosexual to have some dialogue options. Take the one I suggested earlier, the really scholarly guy.

“So, you’re a Loremaster? I bet that leaves little time to go to the taverns and find someone special.”
[If the PC is Male]: “Why go to taverns when I get to work with handsome men like you? Ha! Don’t worry, I’m not actually interested in you. You’re not quite my type, no offense meant.”
[If the PC is Female]: “True, but the kind of men I find attractive don’t tend to frequent taverns.”

I used to think the same (at least a little, I personally thought Rox/Braham was more interesting) concerning those two… until I saw a data-mine on reddit. If it pans out to be true, let’s just say that a relationship like that would generate more outrage than any homosexual one.

Sure some ambient or personal story stuff would be nice, but what’s on my wish list is iconic characters. Being openly gay isn’t the “defining” trait of a character but it is important. Another thing people hardly ever say about straight people. Imagine “I just wish their heterosexuality wasn’t their defining character trait” coming out of someone’s mouth.

Male homosexuality is fairly common in male-dominated societies if you think about it. I mean, look at the Ancient Greece (dude, they HATED women), medieval Japan, even the Middle East to some extent (back when they were rich and advanced i.e the Middle Ages). All these cultures loved homoeroticism. Now, what faction in GW2 is misogynistic? That’s right. Flame Legion.

Thus, in theory, we could have an (anti-)villainous… FLAMING… gay couple in the game. OR perhaps they could be ex-Flame…

SirMoogie.9263:

RedStar.4218:

Because we can very easily say that with how many children are running around, straight relationships are far from becoming rare.

Being gay is not the same as being sterile. Sorry if this seems all too obvious to state, this is a particular peeve of mine that gets thrown around too often to combat gay rights. If everyone were gay there would still be children. Gay couples have children now, they just do it through means that are different, such as having a surrogate mother.

Except that such practices only appeared recently and Tyria is largely a XIX century society.

HumaCarrionEater.8254:

And really GW2 is already pushing the envelope in other ways. It’s a VERY atheistic game. The internet kind of skews how common atheism is in the U.S.; it is still FAR more common to have faith and religion than it is to go without. Yet the major races in the game either have no gods (asura, sylvari) have absent gods (humans) interact with spirits (norn) or actively punish members with deity or faith based ideas (charr). And yet there is little to no uproar over that because the vast majority of people on the internet espouse atheist ideals.

But none of the races in GW2 are atheistic as far as I can see. The Asura believe in the eternal alchemy, but they’ve never stated that the gods that the other races believe in, don’t exist. They simply seem to believe that there’s a logical framework behind it all. The Norn believe in animal spirits. The Sylvari lack a belief, but don’t seem to have a disbelief. More so with the Charr, where they’ve simply discarded the gods, and chosen not to follow them. The humans definitely believe in multiple gods, regardless if they left Tyria or not.

The Asura believe in a concept that is scientific in nature, not deity based. The Norn believe in animal spirits, yes. Again, no gods. The Sylvari do not believe in the gods and want proof of the Six gods’ existence before they decide what to think on it. The Charr do not believe in gods. They believe faith leads to bad magics that make everything go boom in a bad way. It is perfectly possible to be an animist and have no deities in your belief system at all, which is what the Norn have. The Asura believe in an ultimate design, not deity centered design. With them it’s more like the refinement of all the sciences taken to the utmost level. SOME humans still believe, though if you hang out in DR you will see this is not a universal thing. The ones who do believe may have faith, but the fact is their gods are absent. That amounts to a very atheistic game.

I agree but I don’t want them to add that couple just “to support LBGT diversity”
The gay couple needs to fit in to the story—and that means they’ll need to wait a good while before introducing them.

Kasmeer and Marjory are still pretty recent, and Caithe and Faolin are iconic. If they added another prominent LBGT couple so soon, it would seem strange. It would have a negative effect on the story and the couple, and we want a positive one.

Honestly, I’d say don’t expect it for at least a year. Anet will have enough on their plate developing the Kas/Jory relationship, in addition to Taimi, Rox, Braham, Canach, and Destiny’s Edge. Until those things are done well, I’m not open to any major new character additions, whether they be gay or straight, taken or single.

Of the characters we already have, Canach and Trahearne would be the most likely to have same-sex partners, but like you said, they wouldn’t push the envelope as much since they’re sylvari

Well, they can add a gay character, and not have him in a relationship. I suggested that Loremaster character. Personally I think the story is due for another character on par with figures like Lord Odran, and making that character gay to make him a bit more down to earth and relatable would seem like a good move. It doesn’t have to be in your face, or a major part of his character, something minor discovered through dialogue. Making him, ‘Brilliant but Lazy,’ ensures he’s not over-powered as well. The kind of person who doesn’t take off the gloves and prefers to let other people do the work while he does the thinking. A strategist in other words. Still combat capable, but far more inclined to smell the flowers and hold back. Doesn’t want to break a sweat.

You have Trahearne, isn’t that enough? Leader of the Pact forces and all that jazz?

bullyrook.2165:

You have Trahearne, isn’t that enough? Leader of the Pact forces and all that jazz?

He never quite seemed gay to me. Lacked confidence, sure, but never seemed gay. That, and as other people have said, in a society that lacks gender roles, being gay isn’t much of an accomplishment or anything.

bullyrook.2165:

You have Trahearne, isn’t that enough? Leader of the Pact forces and all that jazz?

No that isn’t enough. All sylvari are pansexual—that’s just fact. Because Trahearne is sylvari, Trahearne has the potential to be in a male-male relationship. However, he is not in one and he is not gay—he’s just sylvari.
So Trahearne COULD be in a gay relationship. But, he will not count as a gay-representative character unless that happens—due to the fact that pansexuality is a universal sylvari trait.
On the other hand, if a prominent character of any other race was out and gay—that would count regardless of their relationship status (single or taken), because the normal sexuality of other races is not pan.

EX: Caithe and Faolin only count as “lesbian” when they are in a relationship together. As singles, they are just sylvari like all sylvari.
Kasmeer, on the other hand, would count as lesbian no matter what, because her attractions are not universal to all humans

I want an old male gay couple… Done in the style of Patrick Stewart and Ian Mckellen.

Seriously though… While I am all for inclusiveness and find the lack of it in modern media disappointing. I don’t think they should just throw in a gay male couple for appeasement. If one however develops pseudo-naturally… Like the Kas/Jory one… Go for it.

Including something just to include makes for preaching and poor story telling. It’s like a Christian demanding a monotheistic God be present because they want their beliefs to be represented and shown as valid… that’s just utterly ridiculous. If you’re not trying to, essentially, use media to preach your message, why aren’t you fighting for the inclusion of interracial couples in the spotlight? So it seems to me, people who want this are obviously just trying to use video games in order to preach their dogma…

If anet can finds a natural, non-forced way to include a male gay couple, sounds fine to me. That doesn’t mean we should include them just for the sake of including them… that’s just being preachy.

HumaCarrionEater.8254:

The Asura believe in a concept that is scientific in nature, not deity based. The Norn believe in animal spirits, yes. Again, no gods. The Sylvari do not believe in the gods and want proof of the Six gods’ existence before they decide what to think on it. The Charr do not believe in gods. They believe faith leads to bad magics that make everything go boom in a bad way. It is perfectly possible to be an animist and have no deities in your belief system at all, which is what the Norn have. The Asura believe in an ultimate design, not deity centered design. With them it’s more like the refinement of all the sciences taken to the utmost level. SOME humans still believe, though if you hang out in DR you will see this is not a universal thing. The ones who do believe may have faith, but the fact is their gods are absent. That amounts to a very atheistic game.

No, Atheism means disbelief in gods. The Asura never express disbelief in the gods, they simply follow a different philosophy.

The Charr DO believe in gods, they simply choose not to follow any of them. Again, that is not an Atheistic position, far from it. The Charr are hostile to the idea of following gods, because they say they don’t need any. They’ve had bad experiences with following religious leaders, which only lead them to destruction and evil. That is why they don’t follow any gods, they are anti-theist. That is not the same as denying their existence.

The Sylvari are open to the idea of gods, but are more agnostic in nature. They are curious to learn other cultures, and could easily be swayed in the direction of any of the other cultures regarding beliefs.

The Norn are most definitely religious. Their animal totems are basically deities that they worship, and who manifest themselves as well. I would consider the Norn poli-theists.

Strictly speaking, the charr are atheists- they believe the Six exist, but refuse to believe that they are gods. Believing that gods exist will actually get you tried as a Flame Legion spy in charr culture.

No! god NO! NO NO NO!

One thing is having gay relationships in the game. but there is way more gay relationships than hetero relationships. I have nothing against those gay realationships. as that grants those gay people their inclusion HOWEVER majority of us gamers are hetreo. and there is LITTLE to none hetero relationships in the game. We need more of those :P

Aaron Ansari.1604:

Strictly speaking, the charr are atheists- they believe the Six exist, but refuse to believe that they are gods. Believing that gods exist will actually get you tried as a Flame Legion spy in charr culture.

I fear you’ve misunderstood the dialogue.

I’m preparing to defend a prisoner accused to being a Flame Legion spy, and I need to try out my arguments on someone. You’ll have to do.

What’s the evidence?

He openly suggested that we be permitted to worship gods again. And while he claims he doesn’t believe Gaheron Baelfire is a god, he does insist that gods exist.

Those are dangerous claims.

The prosecution says his views are poisonous. Our history shown that worshiping gods carries a heavy penalty. They’d afraid we’ll return to another dark era of false gods.

How you hope to defend him against these charges?

I’ll ask a tribunal to consider whether our real enemy is faith itself, or rather those who use faith as a means to subjugate us.

In other words, they believe his ideas are dangerous and poisonous. They are against worshiping gods (anti-theist). The idea of going back to worshiping gods, is what lead them astray before, and caused false gods to bring Charr society to ruin. That is why his ideas are dangerous, and why he is being treated as a Flamelegion spy.

So he hasn’t been imprisoned for believing gods exist, but for suggesting that the Charr should go back to worshiping them, and for worshiping them himself.

The mere fact that Charr talk about false-gods, suggests that they do not deny the possibility of real gods. But since it has been proven in the past to be impossible to tell true gods from false gods, the practice of worshiping them is outlawed completely.

I never see Charr debate the existence of gods. It seems that within Charr society it is not considered something worthy of discussing, since they “don’t need gods” to begin with. Note that this quote is very different from “Charr do not believe in the existence of gods”, -which is something I’ve never seen any Charr say.

In Eye of the North some Charr do say “There are no gods for the Charr”. However, this could me interpreted so imply imply that they choose not to follow any gods, rather than completely denying their existence.

How about no?

Big Tower.5423:

No! god NO! NO NO NO!

One thing is having gay relationships in the game. but there is way more gay relationships than hetero relationships. I have nothing against those gay realationships. as that grants those gay people their inclusion HOWEVER majority of us gamers are hetreo. and there is LITTLE to none hetero relationships in the game. We need more of those :P

I took you seriously until I saw the smiley at the end. Well played sir! Very well played!

I don’t get where some of you are getting this whole omg just putting them for the sake of gayness would be bad! Obviously. No one is saying they should just throw characters—any characters—in with bad backstory or whatever just because. You don’t to assert and reassert that omg they better not put the gay in just because. Shouldn’t that hold for anyone they decide to add, regardless?

No you don’t. You have pretty much literally every other game on the market. You get told every single day that your sexuality is natural, good, and right. Forgive me if your ‘empowerment’ is not high on my list of priorities.

Big Tower.5423:

No! god NO! NO NO NO!

One thing is having gay relationships in the game. but there is way more gay relationships than hetero relationships. I have nothing against those gay realationships. as that grants those gay people their inclusion HOWEVER majority of us gamers are hetreo. and there is LITTLE to none hetero relationships in the game. We need more of those :P

In regards to the OP: hear hear!

If we can have a lesbian couple, then how about a male couple. Two women is still playing it rather safe. Toss two men with a mutual relationship into the story, and write their characters well. I’d applaud it.

What if we had a non-love yet love related relationship. Two interaction characters whose conflict focuses on a certain aspect of love or affection that would end up in an unsolved, immoral dilemma or answered such a question.
A question like: “What do we owe each other. And what do we owe our relationship or friendship? And who’s to say?”

Vexander.9850:

bullyrook.2165:

You have Trahearne, isn’t that enough? Leader of the Pact forces and all that jazz?

He never quite seemed gay to me. Lacked confidence, sure, but never seemed gay. That, and as other people have said, in a society that lacks gender roles, being gay isn’t much of an accomplishment or anything.

So, you don’t want the Sylvari because they don’t care one way or the other?

No you don’t. You have pretty much literally every other game on the market. You get told every single day that your sexuality is natural, good, and right. Forgive me if your ‘empowerment’ is not high on my list of priorities

Wait, your list? Friend, we are a community. Like us or hate us we are in this together. You’d think the very least you could do is talk of compromise instead of browbeating people like myself.

bullyrook.2165:

Vexander.9850:

bullyrook.2165:

You have Trahearne, isn’t that enough? Leader of the Pact forces and all that jazz?

He never quite seemed gay to me. Lacked confidence, sure, but never seemed gay. That, and as other people have said, in a society that lacks gender roles, being gay isn’t much of an accomplishment or anything.

So, you don’t want the Sylvari because they don’t care one way or the other?

Allow me to put it this way. Sylvari are not homosexual. They’re pansexual. The entire race is pansexual. Having a male Sylvari in a relationship with another male Sylvari isn’t a homosexual relationship. Its a pansexual relationship, because both individuals are pansexual.

Vexander.9850:

Allow me to put it this way. Sylvari are not homosexual. They’re pansexual. The entire race is pansexual. Having a male Sylvari in a relationship with another male Sylvari isn’t a homosexual relationship. Its a pansexual relationship, because both individuals are pansexual.

And this makes them undesirable to you as representatives to your persuasion… how again?

bullyrook.2165:

Vexander.9850:

Allow me to put it this way. Sylvari are not homosexual. They’re pansexual. The entire race is pansexual. Having a male Sylvari in a relationship with another male Sylvari isn’t a homosexual relationship. Its a pansexual relationship, because both individuals are pansexual.

And this makes them undesirable to you as representatives to your persuasion… how again?

He just said. Because they’re not homosexual. It is not a representation or inclusion of homosexuality if the characters are not homosexual.
Take it from an actual pansexual.

My relationship with my wife, for example, is not a representation of heterosexuality because neither of us are heterosexual, even if we are male and female.

No matter how much I’d like to see a male/male sylvari relationship, it would only be inclusion, really, for pansexuals, because it’s representing a male/male pansexual relationship (unless a gay person decides to count it as inclusion on an individual basis, it varies between people, the OP is not in this boat). And unless it’s very explicitly stated that for some reason those two particular sylvari really do prefer males for some reason, and I don’t really see Anet getting that specific any time soon. This is why he’s asking for humans, because they don’t default to pansexual, and it’s much more likely a male/male relationship with them would be heavily implied to be homosexual instead of bisexual or pansexual.

Hopefully I have explained this concisely and clearly.

Or perhaps you are upset that the sylvari have no conflict withen their society over this subject? Maybe that is what you are really asking for? I’m sure there are strictly heterosexual and strictly homosexual Sylvari, if they were all the same, then they would be boring. We simply have never found one to state what their sexuality is, is all

bullyrook.2165:

Or perhaps you are upset that the sylvari have no conflict withen their society over this subject? Maybe that is what you are really asking for? I’m sure there are strictly heterosexual and strictly homosexual Sylvari, if they were all the same, then they would be boring. We simply have never found one to state their sexuality what their is, is all

You also won’t find one stating their gender either.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

HumaCarrionEater.8254:

And really GW2 is already pushing the envelope in other ways. It’s a VERY atheistic game. The internet kind of skews how common atheism is in the U.S.; it is still FAR more common to have faith and religion than it is to go without. Yet the major races in the game either have no gods (asura, sylvari) have absent gods (humans) interact with spirits (norn) or actively punish members with deity or faith based ideas (charr). And yet there is little to no uproar over that because the vast majority of people on the internet espouse atheist ideals.

But none of the races in GW2 are atheistic as far as I can see. The Asura believe in the eternal alchemy, but they’ve never stated that the gods that the other races believe in, don’t exist. They simply seem to believe that there’s a logical framework behind it all. The Norn believe in animal spirits. The Sylvari lack a belief, but don’t seem to have a disbelief. More so with the Charr, where they’ve simply discarded the gods, and chosen not to follow them. The humans definitely believe in multiple gods, regardless if they left Tyria or not.

Being an atheist in Tyria would be the epitome of moronic. The gods exist for reals 100% there. A character that is an atheist in that world is living a lie. I would just feel sorry for them. Would make for a deeper character study than the dialog I have had to endure between Jory and Kasmeer though.

Can we just ask for deep relationships and good dialog? Or do we just want archetypes no matter if they are good or not? I have seen zero depth between Jory and Kasmeer.

Two attractive ladies in a relationship with each other and all they do is relentlessly flirt in public? We sure that is what we want?

Iason Evan.3806:

Being an atheist in Tyria would be the epitome of moronic. The gods exist for reals 100% there. A character that is an atheist in that world is living a lie.

I wonder how the Norn reconcile that. I mean, they literally have creatures from Grenth’s realm spilling into the Shiverpeaks… how do you then not believe in Grenth? It’s kinda hard.

Iason Evan.3806:

Can we just ask for deep relationships and good dialog? Or do we just want archetypes no matter if they are good or not? I have seen zero depth between Jory and Kasmeer.

Two attractive ladies in a relationship with each other and all they do is relentlessly flirt in public? We sure that is what we want?

Well to be fair, if they don’t show these two interacting with one another, we wouldn’t have any foundation for their relationship, and it would come completely out of the blue. I assume Anet’s time and space for dialogues is limited, so I assume they want to cover as much as they can within the limited budget. If that means the characters flirt too much, or don’t interact enough at all, that’s pretty hard to balance out.

What one considers too much flirting, another sees as not enough back story.

Alice.8694:

bullyrook.2165:

Or perhaps you are upset that the sylvari have no conflict withen their society over this subject? Maybe that is what you are really asking for? I’m sure there are strictly heterosexual and strictly homosexual Sylvari, if they were all the same, then they would be boring. We simply have never found one to state their sexuality what their is, is all

You also won’t find one stating their gender either.

True, but I assume that they do have specific genders even if they can’t have kids.

HumaCarrionEater.8254:

I love Kas and Jory, but they’re not exactly breaking the mold. I think conventionally attractive women in a lesbian relationship is a lot easier for most people to accept. However, what I personally would love to see is a gay male relationship in the spotlight, where neither party is a stereotype, i.e. where neither of them is expected to play ‘the woman.’ or act flamboyantly. I’d also ideally like them to be human, because I find that other species don’t really ‘count’ to the average person.

Good job Anet on inclusion so far, just another hopeful suggestion from a queer player who is desperate to see gay men in an actual romance, as opposed to portrayed negatively or in a way that’s oriented around sex.

Like the good ol’ Sephiroth x Cloud stuff or Zack x Cloud stuff from Final Fantasy 7.

I’ll be really happy if they included (at the very least) a borderline gay relationship like what is seen in Genshiken Season 2 (http://www.crunchyroll.com/genshiken-second-season) . I like to be kept guessing if a relationship is LGBT or not.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

I vote Logan x Rytlock.

Perfection.

=D

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Iason Evan.3806:

Being an atheist in Tyria would be the epitome of moronic. The gods exist for reals 100% there. A character that is an atheist in that world is living a lie.

I wonder how the Norn reconcile that. I mean, they literally have creatures from Grenth’s realm spilling into the Shiverpeaks… how do you then not believe in Grenth? It’s kinda hard.

The Norn do believe in them, I think they call them the Spirits of Action or something along those lines. I know that they do, I just don’t have enough caffeine in me yet to remember with any clear detail the specifics of it. They definitely give a big ol’ acknowledgement to their existence.

bullyrook.2165:

Alice.8694:

bullyrook.2165:

Or perhaps you are upset that the sylvari have no conflict withen their society over this subject? Maybe that is what you are really asking for? I’m sure there are strictly heterosexual and strictly homosexual Sylvari, if they were all the same, then they would be boring. We simply have never found one to state their sexuality what their is, is all

You also won’t find one stating their gender either.

True, but I assume that they do have specific genders even if they can’t have kids.

1. One of the devs stated that they’re basically a race of pansexuals. I’d be surprised if they ever give a sylvari character a stated preference. If anyone could remember what dev said that and where and could back me up on the source, I’d be immensely grateful. It miiight have been Ree Soesbee.

2. They have sexes, yes, which is the physical part. They are stated to not exactly have gender roles, which is the mental part. In psychology and medicine (and.. most places) sex = what you’ve got between your legs, gender = how you identify in your mind. Note that the devs have stated they don’t have gender roles, but they still act, frequently, like they have them. And then you’ve got that extremely gendered cultural armour. That part is a bit of a mess with “what they say” vs. “what they show” so take it with a bit of a grain of salt.

Pretty sure theres been a crapload of posts about how gay should be a bannable word in-game. Nice you use it so openly and no-one complains though.

HumaCarrionEater.8254:

I love Kas and Jory, but they’re not exactly breaking the mold. I think conventionally attractive women in a lesbian relationship is a lot easier for most people to accept. However, what I personally would love to see is a gay male relationship in the spotlight, where neither party is a stereotype, i.e. where neither of them is expected to play ‘the woman.’ or act flamboyantly. I’d also ideally like them to be human, because I find that other species don’t really ‘count’ to the average person.

Good job Anet on inclusion so far, just another hopeful suggestion from a queer player who is desperate to see gay men in an actual romance, as opposed to portrayed negatively or in a way that’s oriented around sex.

I might make people mad with the next few paragraphs….

I like to see people in relationships and dialogue that feels natural. Kasmeer and Marjory felt mostly realistic and natural (except for all the needless expositon in an earlier living world update. That was just painful to listen to, and not in the sorrowful way). It mostly came out the same integrated way as everyone found out about Taimi, and it all added depth to the story instead of coming off as bad as :::

“well, we gotta be more inclusive, employees of Anet, so we need a cripple and lesbians! Also, in six months we find out Jenna was born a boy but became a she because Queens are liked more than Kings. We also need to make a statement about racism, so there’s also anti-Elonian sentiment going on that players need to help settle down! Why? Because we have items to check off a list, thats why!”

(as far as LGBT characters go, another game company, Gearbox, did a wonderful job when they made Sir Hammerlock, Axton, and other non-heterosexual characters. The characters were awesome and felt like a natural part of the game world. But,…Gearbox (also Bioware and a few other companies) having to feel the need to say the word ‘inclusive’ and how you ‘respect everything’ at all in a press release/blog just comes off as very pompous, and makes me wonder if you really wanted a gay character in your game at all, or if there was a focus group you wanted to appeal to?)

On having a major Gay character in Guild Wars 2? Sure! So long as its not done just for the sake of having a gay character, and it is instead done for the sake of having a great story! There’s no reason to make a big deal out of it (like the forums have been doing), or do it because you have to be ‘inclusive’ or be checking items off a list.

No, we need an interspecies relationship between two transgendered characters. Gives those sexist heteronormative pigs something to think about.

Chrispy.5641:

But,…Gearbox (also Bioware and a few other companies) having to feel the need to say the word ‘inclusive’ and how you ‘respect everything’ at all in a press release/blog just comes off as very pompous, and makes me wonder if you really wanted a gay character in your game at all, or if there was a focus group you wanted to appeal to?)

On having a major Gay character in Guild Wars 2? Sure! So long as its not done just for the sake of having a gay character, and it is instead done for the sake of having a great story!

I think a lot of game-writers are still struggling in this regard. It is hard to separate political correctness from simply writing a good story. No company should have to state that they are ‘inclusive’, it should be generally assumed that they are.

Writers should start off by writing their characters as sexuality-neutral. As in: The character comes first, and his/her sexuality could be anything later. I don’t know if GW2’s writers follow this principle when writing their character, but I assume they do.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Chrispy.5641:

But,…Gearbox (also Bioware and a few other companies) having to feel the need to say the word ‘inclusive’ and how you ‘respect everything’ at all in a press release/blog just comes off as very pompous, and makes me wonder if you really wanted a gay character in your game at all, or if there was a focus group you wanted to appeal to?)

On having a major Gay character in Guild Wars 2? Sure! So long as its not done just for the sake of having a gay character, and it is instead done for the sake of having a great story!

I think a lot of game-writers are still struggling in this regard. It is hard to separate political correctness from simply writing a good story. No company should have to state that they are ‘inclusive’, it should be generally assumed that they are.

Writers should start off by writing their characters as sexuality-neutral. As in: The character comes first, and his/her sexuality could be anything later. I don’t know if GW2’s writers follow this principle when writing their character, but I assume they do.

I disagree :P. Sexuality and your views on sexuality are only pieces of character design, they are not separate, but composite.

Well pretty much like everyone else was saying, sure I’ll be alright with it if they do it as part of the story and not just doing it for the heck of it. I personally didn’t like the whole Jory and Kasmeer relationship, not because they are lesbian mind you, it just seemed rather rushed.

I suppose if we knew more about them it would have been better, I liked the Caith and Faolain relationship more since we know their back stories and the conflict arising from it, makes it more interesting to see Caith struggle between her duties and her lover.

Plus Kasmeer was driving me crazy in the confrontation with Scarlet, she wouldn’t stop with all of the kitten hiccuping!!!

Also it seems a bit unfair that while Jory and Kasmeer had some good animations for their kiss scene, Bram and Rox didn’t get the same treatment. I do hope ArenaNet makes more cool cut-scenes like the Jory and Kasmeer scene in the future.

I’m only getting to the Marjory and Kasmeer story now, but I’m also a little bugged out by the presence of so many lesbians in GW2 to no gay male characters that I have seen. (I hate Sylvari so I have never done their personal story sorry.) Either way, Tyria has got to the the only world ever with more lesbians on it than gay dudes. In the real world we’re like 3 times more common.

Well if we’re speaking about stuff we’d want in the game relationship-wise, and I’m not one to argue over political views or making a statement (although I’d definitely support a male-male human pairing…maybe Norn since they’re very human-like) but I’d like more interracial relationships (or more aptly, inter-species)!

I’d like to witness how the various races get along together, to include romance. I like seeing them work together, fight together and care for one another. I’d just like to hear more on the romantic side of things. I think Rox and Braham would be too easy to pair but perhaps something with an Asura? Asura seem very…distant when it comes to relationships.

I think the question should not be, which odd couple can we probably produce for our storyline, but which couple makes sense and brings something to the table. It doesn’t matter if said couple is gay, hetero, bi or whatever orientation you call inter-species relationships, important is only that it serves a purpose within the narrative. Kas/Marj came somewhat close to that.
However the story wouldn’t be too different if they were just good friends instead of lovers. Atleast it doesn’t distract from the plot either. Still a meaningful relationship would be better, something that actually changes the outcome of the storyline. Caithe/Faolain is an better example, since Faolain doubles as a villain. This could actually change the outcome of a storyline, when Caithe refuses to kill her former lover. We need more of this and not random odd couples for the sake of having an odd couple.