Guild Wars 2

Oh wait! I’ve got it!

That cinematic is a teaser! Rytlok tries to use Sohothin there thinking the same thing, but it doesn’t work! The Legions finally unite to wage all out war on the ghosts and elect a new Khan Ur! He drives into Ascalon City, plants the sword, and poof!…ghosts gone!

Because the Khan Ur is the rightful “king” of Ascalon. Get it? Amirite?!?

Called it.

DraconicDak.9340:

Or they’ve been paying more attention than you have…

It always amazes me when players have the audacity to proclaim they know more about the game than those who designed, built, and wrote it. In a week’s time, it will all make sense.

And it always amazes me that people assume those who designed, built, and especially wrote GW2 are the same as GW1.

Lern to research maybe? /shrug

Obsidian.1328:

DraconicDak.9340:

Or they’ve been paying more attention than you have…

It always amazes me when players have the audacity to proclaim they know more about the game than those who designed, built, and wrote it. In a week’s time, it will all make sense.

And it always amazes me that people assume those who designed, built, and especially wrote GW2 are the same as GW1.

Lern to research maybe? /shrug

I know for a fact they’re not. That doesn’t automatically make them wrong. You’re essentially decrying them based on a teaser that doesn’t show the whole story, over a plot point you are merely guessing on, because the apparent events don’t match your own interpretation of a clearly very grey sequence of events.

You’re proclaiming an objective truth, on nothing but a pile of subjective assumptions.

And which of my assumptions are subjective? o.O

I mentioned this earlier in this same thread, but again, I think people are getting too hung up on the whole “rightful king of Ascalon” bit. Remember, it’s just a legend. Rumor and superstition. There’s no guarantee that you have to be the rightful king of Ascalon, or even human, to undo the Foefire’s curse.

Both Magdaer and Sohothin are not even Ascalonian in origin; they are powerful weapons from ancient Orr. For all we know, all it takes is someone with the right knowledge/will wielding one of them to undo the curse. Perhaps Rytlock could have undid the curse himself years ago if he’d just known how to do it.

Zaxares.5419:

I mentioned this earlier in this same thread, but again, I think people are getting too hung up on the whole “rightful king of Ascalon” bit. Remember, it’s just a legend. Rumor and superstition. There’s no guarantee that you have to be the rightful king of Ascalon, or even human, to undo the Foefire’s curse.

Both Magdaer and Sohothin are not even Ascalonian in origin; they are powerful weapons from ancient Orr. For all we know, all it takes is someone with the right knowledge/will wielding one of them to undo the curse. Perhaps Rytlock could have undid the curse himself years ago if he’d just known how to do it.

on one hand, i’m willing to side with you in that maybe the curse just needs both swords back to ground zero.

on the other, i feel like the backlash of another soft retcon will have the entire lore community up in arms and demanding bobby’s head on a stake. plus, it would beg the question “why the hell didn’t rytlock do this years ago?” he knew magdaer was there, he knew the prophecy, and he had sohothin with him for as long as we remember. i hope, albeit without much faith, that they’ll tackle this.

BrunoBRS.5178:

on the other, i feel like the backlash of another soft retcon will have the entire lore community up in arms and demanding bobby’s head on a stake.

I wouldn’t consider it a retcon in any form just yet. The whole Foefire was an event created for GW2 filler content, not GW1. Even in Guild Wars Beyond, the Foefire didn’t take place for the players to witness.

BrunoBRS.5178:

on the other, i feel like the backlash of another soft retcon will have the entire lore community up in arms and demanding bobby’s head on a stake. plus, it would beg the question “why the hell didn’t rytlock do this years ago?” he knew magdaer was there, he knew the prophecy, and he had sohothin with him for as long as we remember. i hope, albeit without much faith, that they’ll tackle this.

Well, as I said, maybe Rytlock just didn’t know how to do it. Maybe he did try, but being a Warrior, he just didn’t have the magical training to do it properly. Nothing happened, and so he dismissed it all as a hoax.

Now, perhaps Priory research on Magdaer, based on documents salvaged from Orr during the Pact’s invasion, has finally unearthed the ritual needed to undo the Foefire, and Rox brings knowledge of this ritual to Rytlock.

BrunoBRS.5178:

on the other, i feel like the backlash of another soft retcon will have the entire lore community up in arms and demanding bobby’s head on a stake. plus, it would beg the question “why the hell didn’t rytlock do this years ago?” he knew magdaer was there, he knew the prophecy, and he had sohothin with him for as long as we remember. i hope, albeit without much faith, that they’ll tackle this.

Don’t forget, only one of the swords is needed to undo the curse, according to the legend as stated in the Movement of the World.

“Some believe that one day, when the rightful king of Ascalon returns with one of the two flaming swords”

Wait… Wait..

Is the only source for that “legend” the Movement of the World article, or is there in-game sources as well? Because subjects in that article has been subject to changes and tweaks before because just how old the article is and the writers deciding to go in another direction.

To top it all off, the legend begins with, “Some believe that one day…”. That gives them a bit of wiggle room because really vague assumptions/rumors are vague.

Ok here’s my interpretation of everything an how both Ronin and Obsidian are correct to some degree. First off let me say that I do believe that Rytlock is going to Barradin and he holds the key to this whole curse.

The curse does state that until either Sohothin or Magdaer return to the hands of the rightful king of ascalon the curse won’t be lifted. Here’s why the solution imo is that either sword must be returned to Duke Barradin.

When the Foefire was unleashed it turned all humans to ghosts forever defending Ascalon from the invasion of the Charr. From the wiki on Ascalonian Ghosts: “Their zeal to defend Ascalon is absolute and anything living is seen as charr or an ally of the charr and therefore a threat that must be eliminated.” Imo, the Ghosts are forever stuck in time fighting the battle to defend Ascalon from invading Charr which explains why they see everyone as either Charr or allies of Charr, have no knowledge of time passing. This brings me to why I believe Barradin is the key to lifting the curse. Since they are somehow stuck in the time when the invasion is happening to lift the curse you would need the Rightful King at that time to have either Sohothin or Magdaer to lift it. Who was the rightful king at that time? Duke Barradin. Who was the king by popular demand? Adelbern. Therefore it is Duke Barradin that we need to return the sword Magdaer/Sohothin to.

The glaring hole in the Barradin theory is that he is cursed as well. Hopefully he will take the sword and simply decapitate the Charr that hands it to him. Those ghosts aren’t rational in our reality, they are stuck in theirs. Not that it will matter.

The prophecy will simply go away, to be supplanted by whatever the “writer” wants and any holes can be plugged with a new priory book 3 months later.

It is a human prophecy and, you know, humans are “mistaken”.

It all happened out of game. Content in game trumps that, as Stein informed us. Whatever they do for this story will be the “lore” and there is no point debating GW lore here. GW lore is now no more than a human centric “opinion”. It can and will be cast aside.

Been done before. Will be done again.

Ley lines will be involved.

Carry on.

The obvious question here is what is the correct interpretation of the Rightful King of Ascalon and does it refer to Living or Dead?

You see the problem is if Duke Barradin accepted Adelbern as the King of Ascalon he for all intents and purposes abdicated and he doesn’t have a claim to the throne. He even offered his daughter to Rurik, arguably he doesn’t have a claim anymore because he gave it away. I personally wouldn’t recognize him as the King of Ascalon because he gave his claim up, but hey thats up to someones interpretation.

Adelbern was able to wield Magdaer and unleash the foefire in the first place probably meaning yes he was of Dorics bloodline and able to claim some sort of legitimacy to being King of Ascalon.

And of course, there is the option someone else of the Doric bloodline who ties into the Ascalonian nobility could very well claim they are the rightful leader of the realm. Someone stated Logan and I myself follow this belief, its a potential if at some point the Thackeray family he descends from married into the Ascalon royalty (given Gwen was founder and leader of Ebonhawke I’d guess very likely). Logan could claim the title if this were true but we don’t know that.

But in the end there are probably many individuals who come from the Doric bloodline who could certainly claim it, the problem is which one is the rightful king.

Prophetic statements about the future often work out differently than people expect. So the definition of the term ‘rightful king’ may not follow bloodline, legalism, etc. Or, the rules could ecompass multiple options. So the khan-Ur may be able to lift the curse as well as any decendant of Doric. As long as the necessity of wielding the sword is fulfilled.

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

The glaring hole in the Barradin theory is that he is cursed as well. Hopefully he will take the sword and simply decapitate the Charr that hands it to him. Those ghosts aren’t rational in our reality, they are stuck in theirs. Not that it will matter.

That’s debatable. Who is to say Barradin didn’t hold some underlying grudge towards Adelbern for conducting the FoeFire. I mean it’s implied Adelbern even stabbed his own steward when his servant figured he was about to do something insane. Simply put a lot of the people had no idea what Adelbern was doing and those that did were against it.

Plus, lets keep in mind that Barradin’s daughter was betrothed to Rurik – a marriage that never happened. Perhaps in telling Barradin the undeniable truth which he denied himself out of self pity, will bring him to the realization where he is (remember the Ghosts of Ascalon still believe they’re in the time before the Foefire) and how he got there.

Dustfinger.9510:

Prophetic statements about the future often work out differently than people expect. So the definition of the term ‘rightful king’ may not follow bloodline, legalism, etc. Or, the rules could ecompass multiple options. So the khan-Ur may be able to lift the curse as well as any decendant of Doric. As long as the necessity of wielding the sword is fulfilled.

There’s that too. Between the Grawl and the Charr, only the Charr seemed focused in getting Ascalon back.

Not to mention Adelbern gave the “finger” to intentionally thwart the Charr’s advance because were it not for this sorcery, the Charr would have reclaimed the lands they had centuries before claimed as their own.

Ronin.7381:

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

The glaring hole in the Barradin theory is that he is cursed as well. Hopefully he will take the sword and simply decapitate the Charr that hands it to him. Those ghosts aren’t rational in our reality, they are stuck in theirs. Not that it will matter.

That’s debatable. Who is to say Barradin didn’t hold some underlying grudge towards Adelbern for conducting the FoeFire. I mean it’s implied Adelbern even stabbed his own steward when his servant figured he was about to do something insane. Simply put a lot of the people had no idea what Adelbern was doing and those that did were against it.

Plus, lets keep in mind that Barradin’s daughter was betrothed to Rurik – a marriage that never happened. Perhaps in telling Barradin the undeniable truth which he denied himself out of self pity, will bring him to the realization where he is (remember the Ghosts of Ascalon still believe they’re in the time before the Foefire) and how he got there.

Im aware of the cursed state. I believe I stated that.

Um, how are you going to “reason” with someone that sees everyone as his mortal enemy? Good luck with your theory.

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

Ronin.7381:

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

The glaring hole in the Barradin theory is that he is cursed as well. Hopefully he will take the sword and simply decapitate the Charr that hands it to him. Those ghosts aren’t rational in our reality, they are stuck in theirs. Not that it will matter.

That’s debatable. Who is to say Barradin didn’t hold some underlying grudge towards Adelbern for conducting the FoeFire. I mean it’s implied Adelbern even stabbed his own steward when his servant figured he was about to do something insane. Simply put a lot of the people had no idea what Adelbern was doing and those that did were against it.

Plus, lets keep in mind that Barradin’s daughter was betrothed to Rurik – a marriage that never happened. Perhaps in telling Barradin the undeniable truth which he denied himself out of self pity, will bring him to the realization where he is (remember the Ghosts of Ascalon still believe they’re in the time before the Foefire) and how he got there.

Im aware of the cursed state. I believe I stated that.

Um, how are you going to “reason” with someone that sees everyone as his mortal enemy? Good luck with your theory.

is barradin actually cursed, or did he die before the foefire? the ghosts of ascalonians that died before the foefire still retain reason.

though yeah, i think it’s a person that is actually alive that has to do the ritual.

BrunoBRS.5178:

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

Ronin.7381:

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

The glaring hole in the Barradin theory is that he is cursed as well. Hopefully he will take the sword and simply decapitate the Charr that hands it to him. Those ghosts aren’t rational in our reality, they are stuck in theirs. Not that it will matter.

That’s debatable. Who is to say Barradin didn’t hold some underlying grudge towards Adelbern for conducting the FoeFire. I mean it’s implied Adelbern even stabbed his own steward when his servant figured he was about to do something insane. Simply put a lot of the people had no idea what Adelbern was doing and those that did were against it.

Plus, lets keep in mind that Barradin’s daughter was betrothed to Rurik – a marriage that never happened. Perhaps in telling Barradin the undeniable truth which he denied himself out of self pity, will bring him to the realization where he is (remember the Ghosts of Ascalon still believe they’re in the time before the Foefire) and how he got there.

Im aware of the cursed state. I believe I stated that.

Um, how are you going to “reason” with someone that sees everyone as his mortal enemy? Good luck with your theory.

is barradin actually cursed, or did he die before the foefire? the ghosts of ascalonians that died before the foefire still retain reason.

though yeah, i think it’s a person that is actually alive that has to do the ritual.

I’ve found nothing of the date of death, but in “Fury of the Dead” he seems as affected as all the others.

Dustfinger.9510:

Prophetic statements about the future often work out differently than people expect. So the definition of the term ‘rightful king’ may not follow bloodline, legalism, etc. Or, the rules could ecompass multiple options. So the khan-Ur may be able to lift the curse as well as any decendant of Doric. As long as the necessity of wielding the sword is fulfilled.

Pretty much this. We are looking WAY too seriously at the small things, interpretations of prophetic statements have always been a sort of fun grounds because of just how many ways the writing could interpret the true intentions.

I am going to assume the simplest answer is that regardless of the decisions made by Barradin and Adelburn, that Barradin by his bloodright is still technically the true heir. Rytlock returns the swords to the heir thus technically giving back Ascalon, and the ghosts are freed. It is that simple, I think it is more far-fetched to assume Rytlock would become the Khan-Ur.

The wiki implies that Barradin was alive at the time of the Foefire, meaning he’s cursed like the others.

Still… in the AC story, Adelbern sensed Sohothin. Perhaps Barradin is similarly sensible, if still entrapped by the curse.

I wonder if plunging the blade into the dust of Barradin’s tomb counts as being “in his hand”…

Aethelbert.1497:

Lostwingman.5034:

I wish people would stop saying that Ascalon was “originally Charr”. It wasn’t, it was “previously held by Charr”. Subtle but important difference. In any case, someone brought this up in the reddit comments. I’m wondering if this idea gained ground with the Charr and whether or not it is partially correct. We haven’t seen a champion for Mordremoth yet so I’m wondering if this action acts unexpectedly to draw one out.

Oh well, just idle thoughts running wild.

Ascalon was originally Charr. Grawl, or whatever lived in area, that will be called “Ascalon” later, are primitive as possible, inferior, ergo they didn’t have any primitive state, sort of. Charr are far superior to Grawl, and they had a territory that one can call a state, sort of. You don’t think of ant colonies when you chop forest for lumber or when you need to live above it. So thought the humans, but charr were no ant colony, ironically.

P.S. All these charr haters

Grawl not primitive, Grawl just want to dance. http://youtu.be/1ITaIOBTIr0?t=57s

Ronin.7381:

Dustfinger.9510:

Prophetic statements about the future often work out differently than people expect. So the definition of the term ‘rightful king’ may not follow bloodline, legalism, etc. Or, the rules could ecompass multiple options. So the khan-Ur may be able to lift the curse as well as any decendant of Doric. As long as the necessity of wielding the sword is fulfilled.

There’s that too. Between the Grawl and the Charr, only the Charr seemed focused in getting Ascalon back.

Not to mention Adelbern gave the “finger” to intentionally thwart the Charr’s advance because were it not for this sorcery, the Charr would have reclaimed the lands they had centuries before claimed as their own.

Which ironically brings back into focus the whole “homeland” debate. GW2 ANet has already retconned that once by turning Ascalon into the ancestral homeland of the Charr, instead of up north where it used to be. This would certainly give credence to them being the “rightful” race to be there in their eyes. Now all we need is a Charr king apparently.

Still not sure why a pair of twin Orrian swords owned by Ascalon kings would have anything to do with the Charr though. At this point ANet could literally write in whomever they want as long as they had some minute, random reference to extrapolate on. The Forgotten, the Grawl, the Ogres…even the Dwarves. They’ve all called it home at one time or another.

Heck maybe Ogden will stroll into Ascalon, banish the ghosts, walk up to the Charr and Ascalons with a rifle in his hand and yell(in an Eastwood voice), “Get off my Lawn!”

BrunoBRS.5178:

is barradin actually cursed, or did he die before the foefire? the ghosts of ascalonians that died before the foefire still retain reason.

though yeah, i think it’s a person that is actually alive that has to do the ritual.

There is only one case of a ghost completely free from the curse, and that one is in the novel Ghosts of Ascalon. There is no explanation why he is special (he got killed by Adelbern before the Foefire) other than it being a plot device in the novel. Some ghosts show more awareness of their state than others, and plenty of them are stuck in their last experience as a living – there are ghosts that talk about leaving to Kryta with Rurik for example.

It makes me assume that most of the ghosts, except those directly killey by the Foefire, have risen from their graves, or the places where they died, if not having been buried. All of Ascalon except of Ascalon City and Ebonhawke (which was outside of the curses’ reach) was under Charr control at the time of the Foefire, and they killed every human or dragged them away north as slaves, to be killed later for the Charr’s entertainment (those who doubt this obviously never played “The Flight North” in GW).

We can assume that no human was alive outside of Ascalon City and Ebonhawke at the time of the Foefire, yet we see ghosts all over (most of) Ascalon (there is a prison camp in Ascalon itself which you find during “Then and Now, Here and There”, but it is only a temporary prison).

So we have two “types” of ghosts, those who were already dead at the time of the Foefire and those who died during it (the last humans to be still alive in Ascalon City). Savione, who was free from the curse, is more an exception than the rule. All ghosts are affected by the curse, and so is Duke Barradin.

Furthermore, when comparing the Ascalon Catacombs cinematics and the cutscene of the Breachmaker tapping into the leyline you can see a pillar of white light rise on both occasions – it makes me think that Adelbern tapped into a leyline to unleash the Foefire. It may be that one needs to tap into the same leyline, or into any other, to lift the curse – and if one runs underneath the Barradin Estate then it need not be done at the Heart of the Foefire. It avoids the problem of the difference in difficulty in reaching the Ascalon City ruins as shown ingame (where it is comparably easy) and in the novel Ghosts of Ascalon, where an army of ghosts appears to kill any trespasser.

So, lifting the curse is being made easy for the sake of the Mordremoth storyline. I had expected something more when dealing with the Ascalon plotlines. I hope that the lifting of the curse is not done as casually as the trailers hints at.

There’s a fault in your logic, Frosch.

1. Ghosts of Ascalon presents a ghost, Savione, who is not under the Foefire curse.

2. We know that he was killed before the Foefire.

3. The narrative of the Foefire explicitly states that the cursed ghosts were created when the wave of light destroyed living Ascalonian soldiers’ bodies.

4. You say that there is no explanation given for why he is not cursed.

Your cry of plot device is missing the very clear connection between “killed by Foefire” and “cursed by Foefire.”

Furthermore, there is nothing that implies in any way that the Foefire raised the dead:

“The air in Ascalon City rang with a choir of their screams as the humans died in their tracks. Their bodies were blasted into burning fragments, but their spirits remained standing. Their mortal forms were reduced to broken skeletons but their souls remained, eternally bound to Ascalon. Only the charr close to the city were destroyed in the blast, but every human for leagues around was suddenly transformed into a ghost.”

That’s an acceptable distance to account for the Ascalonian ghosts throughout the zones, and Ascalonian ghosts are specifically described as living Ascalonians killed and cursed by the Foefire.

No shaky assumptions are necessary. Logic, and the elements presented, create an answer of themselves.

Zaxares.5419:

I mentioned this earlier in this same thread, but again, I think people are getting too hung up on the whole “rightful king of Ascalon” bit. Remember, it’s just a legend. Rumor and superstition. There’s no guarantee that you have to be the rightful king of Ascalon, or even human, to undo the Foefire’s curse.

Both Magdaer and Sohothin are not even Ascalonian in origin; they are powerful weapons from ancient Orr. For all we know, all it takes is someone with the right knowledge/will wielding one of them to undo the curse. Perhaps Rytlock could have undid the curse himself years ago if he’d just known how to do it.

Yeah, for all we know the legend about the rightful king using the sword to cleanse Ascalon was simply a story started by someone in Ebonhawk, low on morale, seething with hatred of the charr and looking for a light at the end of the tunnel – some hope that, while they lost their home today, one day the thing they fought so hard for will be returned to their ancestors hands. Maybe it was just a story told by Vanguard soldiers around campfires, or as they put their children to bed, to inspire and motivate the troops, to keep the hope alive that Ascalon would be theirs again one day. That the fight they had been fighting had meaning, and justice would prevail.

That’s my least favourite theory – why have a fantasy world if the prophecies are just made up? We have fortune tellers in real life to do that.

Even if it is Barradin, who’s to say that the whole ritual thing isn’t interrupted by Mordy’s vines/minions, causing it to fail and in the process also suck the magic out of either of the swords (or Barradin for that matter if that book thing is correct)?

Any number of things could happen, yes.

‘Tis why it’s called a teaser.

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

Ronin.7381:

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

The glaring hole in the Barradin theory is that he is cursed as well. Hopefully he will take the sword and simply decapitate the Charr that hands it to him. Those ghosts aren’t rational in our reality, they are stuck in theirs. Not that it will matter.

That’s debatable. Who is to say Barradin didn’t hold some underlying grudge towards Adelbern for conducting the FoeFire. I mean it’s implied Adelbern even stabbed his own steward when his servant figured he was about to do something insane. Simply put a lot of the people had no idea what Adelbern was doing and those that did were against it.

Plus, lets keep in mind that Barradin’s daughter was betrothed to Rurik – a marriage that never happened. Perhaps in telling Barradin the undeniable truth which he denied himself out of self pity, will bring him to the realization where he is (remember the Ghosts of Ascalon still believe they’re in the time before the Foefire) and how he got there.

Im aware of the cursed state. I believe I stated that.

Um, how are you going to “reason” with someone that sees everyone as his mortal enemy? Good luck with your theory.

Yet as our characters live and breath humans and charr co-exist, humans and charr… living together. No luck to it, the practice presents itself.

Ronin.7381:

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

Ronin.7381:

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

The glaring hole in the Barradin theory is that he is cursed as well. Hopefully he will take the sword and simply decapitate the Charr that hands it to him. Those ghosts aren’t rational in our reality, they are stuck in theirs. Not that it will matter.

That’s debatable. Who is to say Barradin didn’t hold some underlying grudge towards Adelbern for conducting the FoeFire. I mean it’s implied Adelbern even stabbed his own steward when his servant figured he was about to do something insane. Simply put a lot of the people had no idea what Adelbern was doing and those that did were against it.

Plus, lets keep in mind that Barradin’s daughter was betrothed to Rurik – a marriage that never happened. Perhaps in telling Barradin the undeniable truth which he denied himself out of self pity, will bring him to the realization where he is (remember the Ghosts of Ascalon still believe they’re in the time before the Foefire) and how he got there.

Im aware of the cursed state. I believe I stated that.

Um, how are you going to “reason” with someone that sees everyone as his mortal enemy? Good luck with your theory.

Yet as our characters live and breath humans and charr co-exist, humans and charr… living together. No luck to it, the practice presents itself.

we live in that reality. the ghosts of ascalon don’t. they’re stuck in the reality from 250 years ago, where they were actively waging war on charrs. they see absolutely everything, charr or not, as a charr trying to kill them.

in a way, they’re like dragon minions, intent on killing anything that approaches and impossible to reason with.

DISCLAIMER: i am NOT trying to say ascalonian ghosts are dragon minions, or related to them in any way. i’m merely saying they share the same aggressive, unreasonable behavior.

DraconicDak.9340:

There’s a fault in your logic, Frosch.

1. Ghosts of Ascalon presents a ghost, Savione, who is not under the Foefire curse.

2. We know that he was killed before the Foefire.

3. The narrative of the Foefire explicitly states that the cursed ghosts were created when the wave of light destroyed living Ascalonian soldiers’ bodies.

4. You say that there is no explanation given for why he is not cursed.

Your cry of plot device is missing the very clear connection between “killed by Foefire” and “cursed by Foefire.”

Furthermore, there is nothing that implies in any way that the Foefire raised the dead:

“The air in Ascalon City rang with a choir of their screams as the humans died in their tracks. Their bodies were blasted into burning fragments, but their spirits remained standing. Their mortal forms were reduced to broken skeletons but their souls remained, eternally bound to Ascalon. Only the charr close to the city were destroyed in the blast, but every human for leagues around was suddenly transformed into a ghost.”

That’s an acceptable distance to account for the Ascalonian ghosts throughout the zones, and Ascalonian ghosts are specifically described as living Ascalonians killed and cursed by the Foefire.

No shaky assumptions are necessary. Logic, and the elements presented, create an answer of themselves.

That’s a fault with ANet’s logic then. If there are ghosts that talk about leaving with Rurik, then they died in 1070, not 1080. Everyone knew Rurik had been dead for 10 years at the time of the Foefire.

A fault in my logic, that’s funny. I usually do not reply to people who call others racist, but alright.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Lover%27s_Crypt

Two people who were buried before the Foefire and are around as ghosts.

Oh, the Charr buried them, right? Must have been them…

Ghosts reporting the approach of Burntfurs army to the wall, which happened 18 years before the Foefire. Ghosts talking of leaving with Rurik to Kryta.

The “elements presented ingame” speak of ghosts long dead before the Foefire, yet being around now. Must be faulty logic ingame…

No one remembers this ghost?
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Veteran_Bria
She overcame the curse.

Where exactly are the ghosts that talk about leaving with Rurik? Maybe I’ll go have a chat.

Shiren.9532:

That’s my least favourite theory – why have a fantasy world if the prophecies are just made up? We have fortune tellers in real life to do that.

Because it’s not fantasy anymore. It’s a Sci-Fi game.

Obsidian.1328:

Because it’s not fantasy anymore. It’s a Sci-Fi game.

It is very much fantasy (even if it were mainly Sci-Fi it would still be fantasy, seeing as Sci-Fi is basically a branch of Fantasy).

Frosch.7809:

A fault in my logic, that’s funny. I usually do not reply to people who call others racist, but alright.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Lover%27s_Crypt

Two people who were buried before the Foefire and are around as ghosts.

Oh, the Charr buried them, right? Must have been them…

Ghosts reporting the approach of Burntfurs army to the wall, which happened 18 years before the Foefire. Ghosts talking of leaving with Rurik to Kryta.

The “elements presented ingame” speak of ghosts long dead before the Foefire, yet being around now. Must be faulty logic ingame…

A fair enough point with the Lovers. It’s been a while since I did AC story.

However, they are described as ghosts that were “affected by the Foefire.” As in, they were already ghosts, tainted by the curse, but not created by it. Their ghosts already resided there when the Foefire took affect.

EDIT: Which handily explains the ghosts referring to Rurik, or the Burntfurs army. Naturally-created ghosts, tainted by the Foefire.

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

Ley lines will be involved.

^ I would genuinely be surprised if they weren’t involved.

lordkrall.7241:

Obsidian.1328:

Because it’s not fantasy anymore. It’s a Sci-Fi game.

It is very much fantasy (even if it were mainly Sci-Fi it would still be fantasy, seeing as Sci-Fi is basically a branch of Fantasy).

Don’t be nitpicky, kind sir, you know what I mean. Fantasy, like Tyria is both a planet and a continent, is both a genre and a subgenre. Meaning Guild Wars is(was) niether sci-fi nor horror…you know, the other two fantasy sub-genres.

Ronin.7381:

That is incorrect. Being “voted” in doesn’t make you “rightful” when it comes to nobility. Ascalonians simply saw Adelbern as the more comfortable choice as a reward for his strength. Barradin was the rightful king by blood, hence the whole marriage between Rurik and Althea in order to circumvent the blood dispute. He simply wasn’t confident in his own capability to lead himself so he supported the citizens of Ascalon and their decision, using his daughter in an attempt to appease everything. Blood doesn’t care about decisions, one had the stronger connection to the throne than the other. The lesser of the two, Adelbern, was simply given “Pass Go”-card.

No, true kingship requires a moistened bint to lob a scimitar at you.

Aethelbert.1497:

Lostwingman.5034:

I wish people would stop saying that Ascalon was “originally Charr”. It wasn’t, it was “previously held by Charr”. Subtle but important difference. In any case, someone brought this up in the reddit comments. I’m wondering if this idea gained ground with the Charr and whether or not it is partially correct. We haven’t seen a champion for Mordremoth yet so I’m wondering if this action acts unexpectedly to draw one out.

Oh well, just idle thoughts running wild.

Ascalon was originally Charr. Grawl, or whatever lived in area, that will be called “Ascalon” later, are primitive as possible, inferior, ergo they didn’t have any primitive state, sort of. Charr are far superior to Grawl, and they had a territory that one can call a state, sort of. You don’t think of ant colonies when you chop forest for lumber or when you need to live above it. So thought the humans, but charr were no ant colony, ironically.

P.S. All these charr haters

>Tribal societies aren’t valid
>Grawl aren’t sentient
>Surethang

I don’t think you know what the word “originally” means.

Although, my sides have left Tyria to join the Gods.

H’okai so, this is how it will go down…

i’d like to think trahearne would accidentally catch on fire from clinking both swords together.

BrunoBRS.5178:

i’d like to think trahearne would accidentally catch on fire from clinking both swords together.

That’s for the next season, what are you? A Seer?!

Daniel Frozenwind.2946:

H’okai so, this is how it will go down…

Show Spoiler

hide spoiler

• Rytlock: “I free you from this curse!”.
• Zombie Rurik’s ghost appears on the Ring of Fire Islands (the Lich’s curse finally wears off).
• Rurik floats back to Ascalon and proceeds to /facepalm.
• King Adelbern and Prince Rurik duke it out.
• Duke Barradin finally loses it.
• They destroy each other.
• Player characters zerg against Ascalonian Ghosts like crazy to reach Sohothin.
• Kormir arrives to grant them peace and take all the credit.
• Eir arrives carrying Magdaer.
• Trahearne appears just before the end of season cut scene, clinks the swords together and becomes a god-like being imbued with the power of the swords.
• Players get a few silver and some Bloodstone Dust.
• -fin-

Holy crap, that was funny.

Daniel Frozenwind.2946:

BrunoBRS.5178:

i’d like to think trahearne would accidentally catch on fire from clinking both swords together.

That’s for the next season, what are you? A Seer?!

i’m actually glint.

how am i alive?

ley lines. sylvari. asura technobabble.

that’s how.

Vexander.9850:

Logan succeeds. Deemed the rightful King of Ascalon, he’s now free to marry Jennah like he and she have always wanted to do

For me whole premise for their star-crossed-lovers thing was always extremely silly. She’s the queen, either it’s a constitutional monarchy in which no one really cares what she does because it really doesn’t matter or it’s an absolute monarchy in which case she gets to make the laws in any case.

Ronin.7381:

That is incorrect. Being “voted” in doesn’t make you “rightful” when it comes to nobility.

Communist!
But on a serious note, ‘rightful’ is debatable…

Wanderer.3248:

In practically every story that involves a prophesy, the prophesy turns out to have been misinterpreted and in a plot twist the prophesy is fulfilled, but not the way everyone was expecting.

Having Rytlock become “True King” is perfect story-logic.

More accurate the legend being true was such a cliche that people (attempting to be smart) decided to the the prophesy twist, of course they’ve done it so often that it’s actually a cliche itself.
Anyway the best frame of reference we have for how GW2 prophecies work is probably GW1, in which the prophecies tend to work out pretty much as intended but then was twist (yay Abaddon is free, oh look a couple of adventurers have shown up…).

Ronin.7381:

Yet as our characters live and breath humans and charr co-exist, humans and charr… living together. No luck to it, the practice presents itself.

Counter point. Only good example we have is LA, the Orders and the Pack humans and charr work together but one could argue they’re ability to do so is as a result of existing hierarchies and formal structures. I think most of the LA charr are gladium who left the charr society and thus had little choice but to learn to co-exist (or die alone).

Genesis.8572:

No, true kingship requires a moistened bint to lob a scimitar at you.

Listen, strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government

Cartheb.4861:

Genesis.8572:

No, true kingship requires a moistened bint to lob a scimitar at you.

Listen, strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government

Awww, /sadpanda

And here I thought he was talking about Habib from Baldur’s Gate II.

Since the discussion drifted to analyzing the Foefire, I thought I’d chime in with this oldie post of mine. It also supports what Frosch has been saying.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/lore/lore/Why-is-there-a-statue-of-Kormir-in-AC/first#post2799473

The Foefire’s lore is most likely to be the shoddiest piece of vanilla GW2, effectively making approximately zero sense. It was done for two reasons, of which one is acceptable – begrudgingly, with a sour tase left in the mouth – while the other is just a plain insult.

Reason #1: the Foefire killing the charr only in the city, while it went much further when affecting humans. Obviously, it was done so a new playable race could be given the entirety of an old, familiar region. However, if you think about, Adelbern hated the charr and the charr only. How come his hatred for them didn’t go further, wiping out all charr in Ascalon, but killed all humans instead, turning them into ghosts? Which, imo, should’ve required significantly more magical energy (killing, binding the ghost, brainwashing him/her) than just simply incinerating (killing).

Reason #2: To appeal to the GW1 vets of whom they think are… not intelligent enough to realize the glaring lore inconsistencies (read: screw-ups).

As Narcemus said, no amount of your disbelief’s suspension can help in not seeing the absolute nonsense of having all those humans running around in Ascalon when the charr were in control of most of the country. Back in GoA, it was nicely done how they explained the ghosts’ reliving of Foefire day: a lone shepherd and his apprentice herding sheep long gone, not far from the walls of Ebonhawke. That’s entirely believable: they weren’t expecting Adelbern would pull off such a horrendous act, so the Foefire caught them off guard before they could return to the safety of the fortress.

Then come GW2, and you have Foefire ghosts infesting the Plains of Ashford as well as Iron Marches. The area of Iron Marches (Northlands) have been overrun by charr since day 1 of the Guild Wars universe (back in pre-Searing – and in post-Searing as well). There were multiple breaches in the Great Northern Wall by the time of the Foefire, so it is guaranteed the charr had filtered through and surrounded Ascalon City from all sides, securing the whole of Ashford. By that point all civilians should’ve fled to the City or Ebonhawke, while the dead in the crypts and catacombs should’ve passed onto the Mists or in case they didn’t, they should’ve been unaffected by the Foefire.

Instead, we get the ghots of people who have been dead since the 1070ies:

Dispatch Captain Calhaan’s Ghost

Captain Calhaan and his watchmen are reliving the day of the second charr invasion under Bonfaaz Burntfur, which happened in 1072 AE… um, yeah. Calhaan’s likely to have died that day, too, as he’s no longer seen afterwards and IIRC, he stayed to fight while our characters escaped.

Destroy the Ghostly Trebuchet on the Bridge

Ascalonian Siege Engineer: “The charr invasion force. Captain Calhaan was right. They’ve spotted us. Back to the wall!”

This guy’s dialogue also speaks of events happening in 1072 AE.

Then the fact that Warmaster Grast (who’s fighting gravelings below Ascalon City instead of being on his King’s side – that’s probably what he was doing if he’s reliving it), Duke Barradin, Farrah Cappo, Armsman Pitney, Grazden the Protector, Ivor Trueshot, Ralena and Vassar, Viggo, and many more died in the Foefire, on the very same day and away from Ascalon City – while they rise straight from their coffins/crypts/tombs -is impossible.

Also, north of Blightwater Basin in Blazerdige Steppes there’re burnt out ruins of houses. The ghostly inhabitants, if you don’t attack them, start into a series of ambient dialogue and they are CLEARLY from a time before the Searing. A couple is preparing for their marriage, while a guy’s trying to hit on every girl in the village, only to get brutally rejected every time. If I’m not too lazy, I’ll go there and make some screens.