Guild Wars 2

CHIPS.6018:

Pact turrets fired at Zhantan from over a Kilometer away and killed him just fine. Pact do have turrects. They just choose not to install them and let us players do all the work.

Sure, they fired at Zhaitan from a distance, but they didn’t fire up though. Not to mention, Zhaitan was stationary as well. The Pact cannons could only be turned left, right, or center for aiming. All Scarlet would have to do to counter them, is keep a high enough altitude to stay out of the range of fire.

CHIPS.6018:

The players are powerless to stop the giant wheels of history. And that’s what makes a great story.

Your carpet bombing idea… again?

/facepalm

lolwut. Where on earth would Scarlet get the tech for carpet bombing from? I honestly don’t think that’s in the realm of likelihood.

FlamingFoxx.1305:

lolwut. Where on earth would Scarlet get the tech for carpet bombing from? I honestly don’t think that’s in the realm of likelihood.

She has airships, she has explosives. Just chuck them over the side. There’s your carpet bombing.

If you have airships, why would you ever bother to land troops on the ground? That defeats the purpose of having the advantage of being up in the air. If I had an airship, I’d simply fly over the main defensive structures of the city, and drop as many explosives over the side as I could. Then once the city was in ashes, I would land some troops to clean up the rest. That is how you use an airship.

That strategy has two very major flaws- first the logistics of making explosives to level a major city and fitting them all into your ships in a way that won’t end spectacularly, and second the absolute uselessness of the tactic for any aim other than “wipe a city of a map”. Scarlet’s universe bending powers exempt her from the first one, but also introduce a third constraint, which is game design- players are not going to be able to interact in meaningful fashion with a fleet of bombers. And there’s still a second problem- what if she wants to take out the Ship’s Council as a side objective? Good kittening luck being even reasonably sure of that if you won’t come down. What if she wants to exploit this leyline? She just razed all the existing defense infrastructure, and will now have to build her own and be vulnerable in the process. The bottom line is, carpet bombing is a horrible strategic choice in the Tyrian universe, and 90% of the time in our own.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

That strategy has two very major flaws- first the logistics of making explosives to level a major city and fitting them all into your ships in a way that won’t end spectacularly,

You know, if she can build a giant marionette with a death-ray, I think she can load a bunch of simple bombs on board an airship. It’s really not as complex as you make it sound. Certainly not in light of all the other absurd things she’s already built.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

and second the absolute uselessness of the tactic for any aim other than “wipe a city of a map”.

The goal is simply to kill opposing forces, as it always the case when waging war. Nothing does that more effectively, than bombing a city. I think every single army on our own planet would disagree with you on this point. It is the single most useful way to take out an enemy in a city.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

which is game design- players are not going to be able to interact in meaningful fashion with a fleet of bombers.

There are ways around that. We already have siege weapons in the game that players can use, like the cannons on the airship during the final mission of the game. But really, this whole discussion is not about game design. It’s about lore, and a convincing military strike.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

And there’s still a second problem- what if she wants to take out the Ship’s Council as a side objective? Good kittening luck being even reasonably sure of that if you won’t come down.

That’s really not as difficult as you make it sound. First, bomb all the major defenses of the city, and their primary building where they usually hide. Then, land troops on the ground to find and kill the council, while the airship provides air support with ranged weapons. But lets be realistic about this. If Scarlet is trying to attack Lion’s Arch, killing the council becomes irrelevant. Once you are at that point, it simply becomes a matter of army against army. Once the army is defeated, you can take the city. It doesn’t matter if the council is still alive at that point. A governing body without an army, has no power, when faced with a hostile take over that does.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

What if she wants to exploit this leyline? She just razed all the existing defense infrastructure, and will now have to build her own and be vulnerable in the process.

We know from her schematics that her giant ufo is basically a giant drill. She does not have to build anything. All she needs is for a couple of airships to provide aerial support, while her drill does the digging. She doesn’t even have to get down on the ground and build a single thing for that. And even if her plan was to actually take and keep the city, she would not need to build her own defenses. She already has air superiority. She can shoot at anything that tries to take the city back.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

The bottom line is, carpet bombing is a horrible strategic choice in the Tyrian universe, and 90% of the time in our own.

If that were true, why is bombing things so popular on our own world? Keep in mind that unlike a force on our own world, Scarlet is not concerned with taking innocent lives. She does not have to worry about international politics. She’s a single faction, not even a nation, with an army, and no regard for the lives she takes. She could kill everyone in Lion’s Arch and just shrug. A country on our own world might be concerned with hitting a hospital or an orphanage, because that would spark international outrage. But do you think Scarlet would care?

As a side note, Scarlet if you are reading this. You may hire me for your military campaign. I vow to be completely ruthless, and ensure a minimum number of casualties among your own forces. If you want Lion’s Arch in ashes, I’ll gladly be your military adviser. Vote Mad Queen for your military adviser in 2014!

The only way I would support an air raid on LA, is if it kills at least one captain of the council. Then, we can start to see funny posters again.

Keep Calm,
Carry On,
and
Vote Evon!
(This poster is brought to you by the Black Lion Trading Company.)

As for it being easy to carpet bomb a city to smithereens, WWII London would like to have a word. It survived multiple air raids and bombing, and it still survives today. All in thanks to the German’s horrible planning on the matter, because do you need a lot of planning on the matter. Wide-scale bombing in horribly inaccurate.

Two things: first, bombing is a horrible way to wipe out an enemy army. There are any number of ways to avoid death, including something as simple as running in the opposite direction, and absolutely no way to ascertain rather living targets were actually taken out.

Second, bombing isn’t popular in our world. It’s only used for two things- taking out ground installations (factories, etc.) and breaking civilian will. Arguably, US droning makes a third category, but it’s not really bombing. Bombing is highly ineffective against armies without a coordinating ground force- it’ll scatter the enemy, but it won’t remove them, and as the US has learned time and time again, scattered enemies are the worst kind to fight.

…Huh how did the topic turn into WW2 carpet-bombing. <_>

eRRRR ON MORE TYRIA RELATED MATTERS…

While the Pact hasn’t been shown to have any strict air-defenses beside trebuchets, flak cannons and the megalaser, the Risen managed to shoot down a couple of pact-copters. There’s that one event almost no one ever does right outside the Rally point WP where you have to take out the Risen anti-air cannons.

Lets keep in mind that airships were invented very recently and thus there was no need for that kind of air defense. I’m sure they could invent something, it’s just that until Scarlet there wasn’t any reason to make a defense against the pact’s own creation. Maybe they have invented something in the meantime, maybe not.

Well apart from flying dragons of course. Actually, that is a pretty big reason to have air defenses. I think it’s pretty indefensible that a world that is waging war against dragons, does not have air defenses for their city.

I guess this is your answer.

Nah, it just tells us that LA will be attacked, but not why.
We still do not know the “real” target. (confirmed at least)

Yeah, fair enough. Meh, I’m really curious! Will be an interesting day…

Guild Wars 2 via Google+33 minuten geleden (bewerkt)

Escape from Lion’s Arch begins in Guild Wars 2 on February 18! This ominous trailer offers a glimpse at the historic events that take place in the new release. The Living World of Tyria will never be the same! #GW2 #GuildWars2?

arenanetofficial26 minuten geleden

+Brazil There are plenty of other places in Tyria ~Stéphane?
Vertalen

I wonder if these comments mean it will be a (semi-) permanent change to Lion’s Arch…

I hope not.

Well i do not mind change. Burn it down partly or whatever. There are just some structures they have to keep or i will be pretty sad.

LA right now is mostly patchwork anyway. Nothing a year of rebuilding (looking at you lion statue) would be able to restore…

I’m not particularly tied to Lion’s Arch (everyone should live in Ebonhawke and make charr-human babies together ¹), but I think it’d be a much more interesting event if Lion’s Arch was set into ruins and then the beginning of season two was reclaiming ² and then starting the slow process of collecting resources and such to build it up again. Hopefully nothing as bland as donating resources to the rebuilding effort with a little meter that goes up, but instead actually doing events related to delivering resources, protecting escorts from bandits, hammering bolts, etc. Overtime as these events are done cross-servers and overflows, Lion’s Arch would slowly start looking like its old self on all servers within the same regional data center, maybe with some modifications to architecture to look like it has actually undergone a rebuilding… I mean we can’t exactly find the same broken ships and such… can we?

¹ – Awww
² – Of course, depending on what we’re reclaiming it from this could, and should, be a very long process.

True! Just crash a couple of ships on the shore and Lion’s Arch will be rebuild… :P

Edit: ^Charr+human=khajit

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Aaron Ansari.1604:

That strategy has two very major flaws- first the logistics of making explosives to level a major city and fitting them all into your ships in a way that won’t end spectacularly,

You know, if she can build a giant marionette with a death-ray, I think she can load a bunch of simple bombs on board an airship. It’s really not as complex as you make it sound. Certainly not in light of all the other absurd things she’s already built.

Additionally her bombing LA is completely plausible despite all the complexities of bombing because, wait for it, it’s a game that is built in a fictional universe. If anyone would like to dispute the carpet bombing theory feel free to read my signature.

Even then if it’s still a problem, then all she would need to do is plop one of her super-duper-handy-dandy portals (so realistic) on the bottom of her airships and get people to lob bombs through them from the other side (although I think Malafide would prefer her pour rotting Mesmer corpses through the portal).

zamalek.2154:

(although I think Malafide would prefer her pour rotting Mesmer corpses through the portal).

It’s more fun if they’re still alive.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

That strategy has two very major flaws- first the logistics of making explosives to level a major city and fitting them all into your ships in a way that won’t end spectacularly, and second the absolute uselessness of the tactic for any aim other than “wipe a city of a map”. Scarlet’s universe bending powers exempt her from the first one, but also introduce a third constraint, which is game design- players are not going to be able to interact in meaningful fashion with a fleet of bombers. And there’s still a second problem- what if she wants to take out the Ship’s Council as a side objective? Good kittening luck being even reasonably sure of that if you won’t come down. What if she wants to exploit this leyline? She just razed all the existing defense infrastructure, and will now have to build her own and be vulnerable in the process. The bottom line is, carpet bombing is a horrible strategic choice in the Tyrian universe, and 90% of the time in our own.

With all due respect, the only reason not to carpet bomb a city is a for humanitarian reasons. This applies if you don’t want to kill thousands of innocent people. In that case you would need to send in ground troops, who would leave the civilians alone and tries to only kill enemy combatants one by one.

An inhumane and cold bloodied army lead by a psychopathic leader have no problem with this. They get their highs from total annihilation of their enemies.

For example many people have told me that taking over Afghanistan is impossible, even if you have clear military advantage. Wrong. It is impossible if you want to be a humanitarian and refuse to kill civilians. If you are willing to carpet bomb every village, and then throw every single person you capture into concentration camps and then kill them, you can conquer anyone that you can defeat.

And this, my friend, is Scarlet. Does she look like she is humane? Does she look like she care? Nope. She is inhumane, cold blooded and psychopathic.

As for the technological side of things, loading bombs onto airships will be very easy for Scarlet to do. She build a giant UFO and giant robot. She also created bio-organic weapons like the Umbrella Corp. She bend multiple races and groups to her will. She knows all about the Watchknights and twisted them.

So yes, putting bombs on her airships is going to be very easy.

The players won’t be fighting Aetherblade airships from the ground. LA never had air defenses in the first place. But the players can fight Aetherblade airships in the air with Pact airships.

The city must be taken before she can fulfil her objectives, whatever it is to kill the captain’s council or to keep the city. Carpet bombing will certainly weaken the defenders to make the conquest easier. And hence it will be done.

Keep in mind, carpet bombing during WW2 never stopped anywhere in the world. Any nation that have air superiority will carpet bomb their enemies. Its the logical thing to do.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

Two things: first, bombing is a horrible way to wipe out an enemy army. There are any number of ways to avoid death, including something as simple as running in the opposite direction, and absolutely no way to ascertain rather living targets were actually taken out.

Second, bombing isn’t popular in our world. It’s only used for two things- taking out ground installations (factories, etc.) and breaking civilian will. Arguably, US droning makes a third category, but it’s not really bombing. Bombing is highly ineffective against armies without a coordinating ground force- it’ll scatter the enemy, but it won’t remove them, and as the US has learned time and time again, scattered enemies are the worst kind to fight.

Assuming that you have total air superiority and military superiority over a city.

1) Surround the city so no one can escape.
2) Applies carpet bombing and artillery shelling.
3) Any civilians who tries to escape from the city will first be captured. This gives an illusion that your army takes prisoners, which would encourage defection.
4) After you get these civilians far enough away from the city, kill all of them. That means no combatants hiding with the civilians will survive.
5) With the city in ruins, and all visible defences destroyed, moves in your ground troops. Kill anyone that you see, combatants and civilians alike.
6) The city is now in your hands. The enemy leadership are either dead or powerlessly fleeing.
7) Send the few enemy survivors into slavery. Then send in your own population to resettle the city.

Zaxares.5419:

No, the Captain’s Council is actually extremely clever. Why bother spending money investing in more defences when they know there are HORDES of powerful adventurers willing to defend their city for (essentially) free?

Promise me a some medals and I’ll move the world. An interesting idea for a story line would be to offer achievements to do the work of the story’s villian. It would be interesting to see what would happen. I suspect a villian could rule Tyria just by offering up a few cheap medals(achievement points).

^— It’s a good read, Massively covers a lot of how certain things are going to be handled – e.g. map exploration in LA as well as what will happen to the personal story instances there.

CHIPS.6018:

With all due respect, the only reason not to carpet bomb a city is a for humanitarian reasons.

Or keeping objectives in tact. Buildings to house you forces. Resource caches to feed and supply your troops. Plunder to pay your mercenaries. Technology to aid you endeavor. And so on.

Did anyone else almost want to cry watching that preview video? I mean mixing the GW1 krytan music with serene pictures of Lion’s Arch brought back so much nostalgia of the area, only to watch scenes of it’s destruction and the devastation right afterwards? I think I felt my heart ripped out…

SirMoogie.9263:

CHIPS.6018:

With all due respect, the only reason not to carpet bomb a city is a for humanitarian reasons.

Or keeping objectives in tact. Buildings to house you forces. Resource caches to feed and supply your troops. Plunder to pay your mercenaries. Technology to aid you endeavor. And so on.

Technically, we’re moving away from carpet bombing due to technology allowing to target better. Why take out a whole town when we can safely and easily take out exactly the target we want?

from the way scarlet talks though, it feels she’s aware of whatever is controlling her (Mordremoth being the popular theory, which i could totally believe and kind of want). but Mordremoth, well the jungle dragon, has already been stated to be sleeping or whatever in the maguuma jungle so that debunks scarlet trying to kill it there.

zamalek.2154:

Not data mined, but tread carefully

hide spoiler

LA is definitely the next target (penultimate). http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/02/11/prepare-to-escape-from-lions-arch-in-guild-wars-2s-next-conten/

This trailer hits the right button. I stopped playing 6 months ago because I found the LS pretty meaningless, but if they have the guts to wipe out LA they are planning for some highly emotional storytelling. ‘Remember LA?’ – ah, the nostalgia.

Concerning the secret of Caithe

Im pretty sure she someone blames herself for the fall of Faolain to Nightmare. That there was some accident or Faolain tried to protect her. A lot about that happening is kept blurred by caithe herself.

Question: why don’t all the dragons wake up at the same time? So far, each dragon has woken up 50 +/- 5 years from the last, before you account for the fact that Primordus’ awakening was delayed for some time (which makes me think that each dragon can’t awaken until 50 years after the last one). Interestingly, if Mordremoth awakens on Tuesday, this would break that trend, since it’s only been 7 years since Kralkatorrik awakened.

Jormag is 45 years after Primordius. Zhaitan is 54 years after Jormag. DSD is 51 years after Zhaitan. Kralk is 50 years after DSD.

So I would say the 50 is only approximate – although obviously 7 years is quite a bit off 50 xD. But yeah who knows, maybe Scarlet has come up with some way to prematurely awaken him? Maybe he woke up a long time ago?

Maybe the killing of one Elder Dragon allows another to wake up to take its place? Who knows.

Tamias.7059:

Question: why don’t all the dragons wake up at the same time?

Presumably they would wake up once they have “bled” enough magic into the environment. This is not stated in the canon but is a reasonable conclusion.

Wiki

the dragons wake and consume everything in the world, thereby reducing the world to a low level of magic, before going back to sleep. Then the magic they have consumed bleeds out into the world

At the very least it is never said that they release magic into the environment at a constant/universal rate. I’m going to err on the side of “there being no statement about that implies that they do not all release magic at the same rate.”

My attempt at a reasonable explanation would be that magic could be acting under a pressure gradient much like fluids do in real life. The more magic being consumed near to the beast (or through a ley line connected to it) the steeper the pressure gradient and therefore the faster it bleeds its magic. One could assume that the ley lines do a very good job of keeping the magic distribution uniform over Tyria but they wouldn’t be able to do a perfect job (and hence there are slight local variances).

Alternatively all we know is that Primordius started moving before any of the other dragons. We don’t know whether they all awoke at the same time and are simply biding their time. 50 years is a long time for a human – it’s nothing to an ED who has been alive for thousands of years (and expects to be alive for thousands more).

Another theory could be that not much is actually known about the EDs and there is a marginal possibility that there is some form of pecking order (most definitely not a hierarchy in political terms) – Primordius could be the most powerful of them and may have first preference.

Finally, it could be some sort of “magical signal” (whether benign or artificial) that permeates its way to each of the dragons – it would likely not reach them at the same time.