Guild Wars 2

This is mentioned across Quarryside and Kessex Haven, on Kessex Hills. Centaurs are allowed into Lionguard outposts, and the Lionguard doesn’t defend the Krytan towns

What do you guys think of it? I find it pretty weird, and shameless for Lion’s Arch.

Not really. Lion’s Arch is a free city, and people there often emphasise that they’re not part of the Krytan kingdom. Kryta is at war with the centaurs, but the non-human races have no reason to have a problem with them. Besides, the Lionguard seem to have taken an almost Sunspear-like role in Tyrian politics, as a neutral force.

I guess the important thing to remember is that centaurs are people too! Not just monsters. If Lion’s Arch fought against them, it would equate to taking Kryta’s side.

Well, Lion’s Arch considers itself a separate kingdom from Kryta. It has its own separate rulers, laws and military. It is also not primarily a human settlement. Many humans among the Lion Guard do feel conflicted about the treaty. On one hand, they respect the authority of their nation, but on the other they still feel an obligation to protect their fellow humans. Many of the non-humans aren’t quite as conflicted here. They have no racial attachment to Kryta, and simply shrug and say “Let the Krytans take care of Kryta.” Some of them may even be passively rooting for the centaurs, hoping that they’ll knock out one of their competing races in the humans.

I see Lion’s Arch at non-interventionist. As a multi-racial city of all races, they wish to avoid conflicts, so long as people follow the rules within their city.

Interestingly though, Lion’s Arch was the main city in Kryta during GW!. Queen Salma was at LA. It seems somewhat hard to imagine storywise that a city could go from being the capital to being not even considered part of Kryta. I understand the changes that have brought this about….the elder dragons, flooding, pirates rebuilding LA, it’s multi racial populace. The transformation that has taken place is something I had to get used to…. seems hard to believe after spending so many happy hours in the old LA with my GW1 characters. We even had to defend LA against the white mantle and mursaat in the last battle of War in Kryta. It’s definitely not the same city anymore.

BTW there is a centaur living in LA.

To tell the truth I got hard time killing centaurs ant hyleks. They too much resemble native americans (although centaurs take slaves). I felt really conflicted when we were raiding hylke village. Truth that they will attack humans without remors, but destroying their homes in which may have been hidden non-combatants just doesn’t sounds right.

I think that treaty is foreshadowing (hopefully) of possibility for centaurs from elona to by a playable race in future expansions.

And hopefully with the defeat of Zhaitan travel to Cantha can resume as well.

I think there’s an NPC that explains it in Kessex, possibly Kessex Haven itself, as something along the lines of “We don’t want the centaurs raiding our caravans, and the centaurs don’t want to have to fight both Divinity’s Reach and Lion’s Arch.”

I think there’s a certain element of the LA council sticking their heads in the sand here, though. The centaurs do indeed raid LA-affiliated traffic, and there’s nothing to say that the centaurs will leave LA alone if Kryta was to fall. The impression I got from at least some of the Lionguard near the front lines is that they understand this, but they’re constrained by their orders.

Well, taking into account that LA was completely wiped out with the tidal wave., it was rebuilt by pirates. Not Kryta.

I would say that they have strong ties to Kryta, but not enough to get themselves involved in a race war. They have their own business to protect and considering the Risen threat, a military formed from pirates aren’t interested in fighting long term engagements.

I can see the centaurs doing something silly and end up joining one of the dragons though. In order to turn around the losing war.

You can sign a “peace treaty” but keep in mind, all it is is a piece of paper. Something I never understood from history. In Kessex (not sure exactly where) there was a centaur emissary in the Lion Guard outpost but the dialogue between the centaur and the Lion Guard members reeked of suspicion, passive-aggressiveness, and ulterior motives. That’s what I got out of it, anyway.

Why exactly are the centaurs at war with the Humans? I know they have been at war for centuries, but why?

Thanks!

Hexicz.8450:

Why exactly are the centaurs at war with the Humans? I know they have been at war for centuries, but why?

Thanks!

It doesn’t seem to be properly explained, but it seems to be a case of one or both races intruding upon the other’s territory and then taking it over. In other words, it’ll probably end up leading to humans being painted as the bad guys again, just like with the war with the charr.

The treaty with the centaurs doesn’t really make much sense. Queen Jennah is said to support Lion’s Arch…why is she supporting a city that is prepared to let people be killed by the same creatures that ravage her own land?

Queen Jennah could support Lion’s Arch all she wanted. It’s like Queen of England supporting Canada. Is Canada obliged to attack enemies of Great Britain? No.

Branwin.4609:

You can sign a “peace treaty” but keep in mind, all it is is a piece of paper. Something I never understood from history. In Kessex (not sure exactly where) there was a centaur emissary in the Lion Guard outpost but the dialogue between the centaur and the Lion Guard members reeked of suspicion, passive-aggressiveness, and ulterior motives. That’s what I got out of it, anyway.

I agree. It made me think about centaurs as 100% untrustworthy race. Why, after introduction of Ventari and centaurs from Elona we have only evil centaur tribes. Not even one neutral or at least trying not to fight humans too often.

Centaurs are in the same position as the charr; humans took over their land and they are trying to reclaim what they believe is theirs.

I was curious about why the charr reversed their stance after they saw the threat the dragons posed while the centaurs did not. As I was checking out info on the wiki, the main problem is the centaur chieftan. He doesn’t see the dragons as the main threat and he rules with an iron fist. This is reflected in the real world … a certain stubborness of some leaders despite the handwriting on the wall so to speak. If you interact with the centaur in LA he’ll give you a little more info on the situation.

Garenthal.1480:

In other words, it’ll probably end up leading to humans being painted as the bad guys again, just like with the war with the charr.

Nobody’s saying the Charr were the good guys at any time. In GW1 they were ruled by the Flame Legion and did some pretty terrible things, even by the admission of their own race. In Ascalon a couple of NPCs mention being disgusted that their ancestors killed civilians and burned villages.

Even now, it took a treaty for the Charr to stop launching attacks on Ebonhawke, and for Kryta to stop trying to launch raids on Charr lands. Both races didn’t do very nice things recently, but nobody’s saying the GW1 Charr were secretly good all along.

The treaty is kind of universally portrayed as a bad idea, with the Centaurs breaking it and attacking caravans on multiple occasions, and even plotting an invasion of Lions Arch. You even get a few dialogue options to call them out on it, I think.

In regard to the motives, if you go to Fort Salma, a Seraph there tells you that the reason the Centaurs are invading is because the Centaur “king” (Ulgoth the Mighty) wants to take revenge on humankind for destroying the Modniir tribe in the Far Shiverpeaks 250 years ago.

Which was the work of the GW1 player characters. So, in short, the entire war is due to people farming Norn reputation points.

(As a side note, Ulgoth gets killed at the end of the Harathi Hinterlands. So things aren’t looking good for the invasion.)

The treaty’s pretty much what drax said though, as others said, there’s suspicion and claims that centaurs are still attacking caravans.

@Lurinna: I don’t recall this. Which NPC says this? Furthermore, that NPC would be wrong because the war began in 300 AE according to The Centaur War and we even know of the war being from before GW1 thanks to The Wilds bonus and Ventari’s dialogue

Ulgoth seems to have been changed from the name of an individual to a title, since during the event in Harathi he’s called “Ulgoth the Modniir” and “Modniir Ulgoth.”

It’s said by a few generic “Seraph Guards” who wander around Fort Salma. They explain the war in full.

Also, I think those sources refer to the conflict between the two races in general, rather then this specific invasion, which by all accounts started only a few years ago.

And I don’t see why you think that change took place. I mean, it’s just referring to him in the context of association to his tribe. It’s a bit odd, but no different then saying “Logan the Krytan” or something.

So you’re saying we’re killing the same leader with the same name numerous times, this guy’s name having lost all connotations of being called “the Mighty” and is instead called “the Modniir” (Modniir Ulgoth I can understand, but “the Modniir” sounds weird). Also, I believe there was a dialogue hinting at that being a title rather than a name as well, though I don’t recall off the top of my head.

The title of the event is “Defeat Ulgoth the Modniir and his minions”, the boss’s name is “Champion Modniir Ulgoth”, and after the event is over Captain Edwards says “With the Ulgoth dead, the Modniir forces are broken.”

It is quite confusing, no?

Welp. Sounds like the writers dropped the ball somewhere.

It sounds like it’s one of those cases where dynamic events are only imperfectly simulating a dynamic world, and the maps are actually frozen in Groundhog Day-esque sequences. Mechanically, you can never really win – the boss is going to respawn sooner or later – but in practise, the ground assumption for at least some maps is probably that once you’ve done with them, the problem is fixed and if you redo them, it’s a reenactment like the War in Kryta reenactments.

Alternatively, of course, there could be an unspoken “for now” after “the Modniir forces are broken” – but I really don’t think it’s lore-accurate that the dynamic events are following a cycle that repeats on a daily or hourly basis.

IsaacSin.1374:

The title of the event is “Defeat Ulgoth the Modniir and his minions”, the boss’s name is “Champion Modniir Ulgoth”, and after the event is over Captain Edwards says “With the Ulgoth dead, the Modniir forces are broken.”

It is quite confusing, no?

Modniir is the name of the tribe, still confusing?