>Logan Thackary
>Magdaer
>Ruins of Rin
>????
>PROFIT!
The story mission for AC left off with Eir headed for the Honor of the Waves, still in possession of Magdaer. In the wiki:
“It is said that if either Magdaer or Sohothin returns to Ascalon City in the hands of rightful king of Ascalon, then the Ascalonian spirits will finally be put to rest.”
—Magdaer
What if Logan acquired Magdaer and traveled to Ascalon? What did Eir do with it? Maybe she hid it away somewhere to keep it safe. Or maybe she threw it away en route to HotW. There’s a vast number of things that can be done here – perhaps in the next expansion or LS – and I would be very interested to know what ANet’s developers and writers thoughts regardless if there are any current plans to expand this part of the Guild Wars 2 story.
(edited by Aldaryn.4376)
What makes you think that Logan is the “rightful king of Ascalon” ?
His ancestors are not from royalty in any sense, and even if Logan officially marry with Jennah, he’ll be King of Kryta.
the problem is, the “rightful king of ascalon” would have to be the descendand from either king adelbern or duke barradin, but adelberns son prince Rurik died to an ambush of the stone summit dwarfs, and his wife, the daughter of duke barradin, got killed in the searing. Both were only childs and both died before they had children, therefore everyone who had any form of bloodright to the ascalonian throne died.
But I guess it is better than that, you really think the charr would give up on ascalon, it is their homestead. And in case someone wants to argue “but the charr took ascalon from the humans” that only happend after the humans pushed the charr out of ascalon anyway, it was their rightfull home to begin with. Therefore the true leader of ascalon should not be a human king but a Khan-ur of the Charr, which is a title that has not to be inherited by birthright, any imperator that wields the claw and does one great dead can claim the title(but it has to be a significant deed, the last time a charr attampted to get it, the searing and entire destruction of ascalon followed).
Imperator Smodur, current leader of the iron legion is the current possessor of the claw, so he is closest to beeing the Khan of ascalon and all the charr.
What makes you think that Logan is the “rightful king of Ascalon” ?
His ancestors are not from royalty in any sense, and even if Logan officially marry with Jennah, he’ll be King of Kryta.
Adlebern was not of royal blood either, yet he became king. Check out Ascalon’s Chosen. I think it would be entirely plausible that somewhere in Logan’s and Kerian’s ancestry there’s an illegitimate heir, unless ANet clarifies otherwise
the problem is, the “rightful king of ascalon” would have to be the descendand from either king adelbern or duke barradin, but adelberns son prince Rurik died to an ambush of the stone summit dwarfs, and his wife, the daughter of duke barradin, got killed in the searing. Both were only childs and both died before they had children, therefore everyone who had any form of bloodright to the ascalonian throne died.
But I guess it is better than that, you really think the charr would give up on ascalon, it is their homestead. And in case someone wants to argue “but the charr took ascalon from the humans” that only happend after the humans pushed the charr out of ascalon anyway, it was their rightfull home to begin with. Therefore the true leader of ascalon should not be a human king but a Khan-ur of the Charr, which is a title that has not to be inherited by birthright, any imperator that wields the claw and does one great dead can claim the title(but it has to be a significant deed, the last time a charr attampted to get it, the searing and entire destruction of ascalon followed).
Imperator Smodur, current leader of the iron legion is the current possessor of the claw, so he is closest to beeing the Khan of ascalon and all the charr.
I agree, if the rightful king of Ascalon walked in, Smodur, and the rest of the Charr, wouldn’t be pleased. However, if the rightful king was Logan, it could strengthen the Charr-Human relations and the Treaty. But, then again, it could also damage it. As I said in the original post, there’s a lot that the writers can work with and develop.
just because the rightful king of ascalon is required to break the curse it doesnt necessarily mean that they then have claim to ascalon itself, likely if the curse is ever broken the human doing it would simply be doing so to improve relations with the charr by removing the ghost threat
Only really Smodur I think, the Iron Legion Homeland is in Ascalon, the Blood, Ash and Flame all have their own territories (think Flame might overlap with Ascalon though).
just because the rightful king of ascalon is required to break the curse it doesnt necessarily mean that they then have claim to ascalon itself, likely if the curse is ever broken the human doing it would simply be doing so to improve relations with the charr by removing the ghost threat
I don’t think giving the Charr less enemies is a way to ensure peace… Was watching an interview (a bit old https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TKBmx1Pt5k) in which it was made clear that the peace treaty is only with the Iron Legion. Both Ash and Blood are still technically hostile towards the human, So if they were suddenly given less enemies to fight…
What makes you think that Logan is the “rightful king of Ascalon” ?
His ancestors are not from royalty in any sense, and even if Logan officially marry with Jennah, he’ll be King of Kryta.
Adlebern was not of royal blood either, yet he became king. Check out Ascalon’s Chosen. I think it would be entirely plausible that somewhere in Logan’s and Kerian’s ancestry there’s an illegitimate heir, unless ANet clarifies otherwise
Adelbern was descended from King Doric, so he was of royal blood… Sorry to burst your bubble. He wasn’t next in line for the throne when he was crowned, but he WAS in line. Logan isn’t of royal blood at all…
I don’t think giving the Charr less enemies is a way to ensure peace… Was watching an interview (a bit old https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TKBmx1Pt5k) in which it was made clear that the peace treaty is only with the Iron Legion. Both Ash and Blood are still technically hostile towards the human, So if they were suddenly given less enemies to fight…
I’m not in a position to watch the video right now but we know Malice (the Ash Legion Imperator) actually actively supports the treaty.
I don’t know. It would be relatively easy, albeit very bad storytelling, for the writers to say that one of Gwen or Kieran’s ancestors, or maybe someone married in between them and Logan, was descended from Doric. That said, though, if Doric’s blood is what the legend is getting at the best way to test it would be to get Jennah to try. I think Samuelsson also says he’s of that line. Logan would certainly not be the first choice.
On Magdaer’s location- I’ll point out that Eir definitely wasn’t going to Honor of the Waves, since she put in an appearance at Sorrow’s Embrace before that. More to the point, Destiny’s Edge doesn’t spend all of it’s time rushing from dungeon to dungeon- if you read the mail they send, it sounds like they spend most of their time doing their own thing, and only go to the dungeons about the same time as you. Eir’s stated plan was to take the sword to a blacksmith she knows- I would presume Beigarth- so I would assume it’s either in his possession or discarded in Eir’s homestead somewhere.
What makes you think that Logan is the “rightful king of Ascalon” ?
His ancestors are not from royalty in any sense, and even if Logan officially marry with Jennah, he’ll be King of Kryta.
Adlebern was not of royal blood either, yet he became king. Check out Ascalon’s Chosen. I think it would be entirely plausible that somewhere in Logan’s and Kerian’s ancestry there’s an illegitimate heir, unless ANet clarifies otherwise
Adelbern was descended from King Doric, so he was of royal blood… Sorry to burst your bubble. He wasn’t next in line for the throne when he was crowned, but he WAS in line. Logan isn’t of royal blood at all…
You’re not bursting anyone’s bubble…and you seem to be missing the point.
I don’t know. It would be relatively easy, albeit very bad storytelling, for the writers to say that one of Gwen or Kieran’s ancestors, or maybe someone married in between them and Logan, was descended from Doric. That said, though, if Doric’s blood is what the legend is getting at the best way to test it would be to get Jennah to try. I think Samuelsson also says he’s of that line. Logan would certainly not be the first choice.
On Magdaer’s location- I’ll point out that Eir definitely wasn’t going to Honor of the Waves, since she put in an appearance at Sorrow’s Embrace before that. More to the point, Destiny’s Edge doesn’t spend all of it’s time rushing from dungeon to dungeon- if you read the mail they send, it sounds like they spend most of their time doing their own thing, and only go to the dungeons about the same time as you. Eir’s stated plan was to take the sword to a blacksmith she knows- I would presume Beigarth- so I would assume it’s either in his possession or discarded in Eir’s homestead somewhere.
You speak of bad story-telling in the same breath as you say giving Magdaer to Queen Jennah would be a good idea. She isn’t Ascalonain, whereas Logan’s ancestors: Keiran and Gwen are Ascalonian. See Ebon Vangard. So yes, Logan would be the first choice because he has Ascalonian heritage.
Ascalonian heritage isn’t what’s important, though. The human monarchy seems to rest on the notion that King Doric was somehow singled out, special, either by divine right for his service to Dwayna or by right of accomplishment for uniting the Tyrian branch of humanity. Descent from Doric is the only right to the throne- any throne, presumably, but especially Ascalon, which was apparently the original kingdom (though that timeline has grown fuzzier due to GW2’s release). Any claim Jennah made would necessarily trump one from Logan, unless, as I mentioned in the line you yanked out of context, there was a sudden revelation in his family tree. You also might notice that I mentioned a Samuelsson- that’d be Wade Samuelsson, head of the Ebon Vanguard, and if his claim is true I cede that he’d probably have a better chance than Jennah. I mentioned him second only because we haven’t had any corroboration yet.
the problem is, the “rightful king of ascalon” would have to be the descendand from either king adelbern or duke barradin, but adelberns son prince Rurik died to an ambush of the stone summit dwarfs, and his wife, the daughter of duke barradin, got killed in the searing. Both were only childs and both died before they had children, therefore everyone who had any form of bloodright to the ascalonian throne died.
Wade Samuelsson, Commander of the Ebon Vanguard and Duke of Ebonhawke, descends from Ascalonian royalty.
Barradin likely had siblings or cousins that we didn’t know about. Royalty rarely have singular lines, but are often lines of kittens and younger siblings left to rule lesser lands.
Also, according to the Prophecies manual, Rurik was simply the eldest son. There was another kid we know nothing about – though Rurik was also the last child of Adelbern by the time the former died, so any younger sibling of Rurik was likely either dead or thought to be dead before 1072 AE.
Adlebern was not of royal blood either, yet he became king. Check out Ascalon’s Chosen. I think it would be entirely plausible that somewhere in Logan’s and Kerian’s ancestry there’s an illegitimate heir, unless ANet clarifies otherwise
While of commoner title, Adelbern was descended from King Doric, making him of royal blood.
(edited by Konig Des Todes.2086)
Given how long ago Doric lived, it’s actually much more likely that almost everyone in Tyria is descended from him in one way or another, than no one.
It was actually a theory around GW1s time that the Chosen were all descended from Doric.
And in case someone wants to argue “but the charr took ascalon from the humans” that only happend after the humans pushed the charr out of ascalon anyway, it was their rightfull home to begin with.
Before that, the charr pushed the grawl out. Of all the races, it was the grawl who were originally native to Ascalon – between the charr and the humans, neither have the moral high ground, it’s just which group of conquerors you choose to side with.
I don’t think giving the Charr less enemies is a way to ensure peace… Was watching an interview (a bit old https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TKBmx1Pt5k) in which it was made clear that the peace treaty is only with the Iron Legion. Both Ash and Blood are still technically hostile towards the human, So if they were suddenly given less enemies to fight…
It’s… a little more complicated than that. The peace treaty is with Smodur, but according to the way the different legions operate, it was also Smodur that was running the war in the first place – Blood and Ash no longer have common borders with humans, so they were assisting Iron in Iron’s war rather than fighting their own. According to interlegion charr policy, a member of another legion in another legion’s territory has to follow the host legion’s policy, so short of Bangar sending another army through the Far Shiverpeaks, peace with the Iron Legion effectively IS peace with the charr as a whole (Flame Legion excepted, of course).
More broadly, from Ghosts of Ascalon, there’s a strong impression that Malice Swordshadow of the Ash Legion also supports the peace (there’s an exchange where someone – Dougal, I think it is – asks about conflicts of interest between the Vigil and the Ash Legion, and Ember responds with something along the lines of ‘fortunately, that hasn’t happened’ – implying that Malice supported the mission to recover the Claw and, by extension, was in favour of peace). Conversely, a prerelease version of the charr page suggested that Bangar still nurses a significant hatred of humans (but can’t prosecute a war on his own bat because the shared borders are under Iron Legion jurisdiction, unless he’s willing to break the compact between the legions and also go to war against Iron). So if anything does come out of the technicality that the treaty is technically with the Iron Legion, it’s likely to come from Blood.
Royalty can be defined several ways: a person belonging to either a royal lineage(hereditary bloodlines), royal rank(kings, dukes, etc), or royal class(elite nobility). Obviously, for the purposes of Doric’s line, they mean lineage here. Which means, like Olvedred mentioned, there could be craploads of possible heirs around.
Well… you can’t really say that Smodur waged the war, it was a war that went on for hundres of years, he was just born into it, as are any other Charr and human.
About enemys and allies of humans from the charrside:
Smodur and Malice(Iron & Ash) both pushed towards peace with humans, Smodur is just the one kind of officially speaking for the Charr, Malice prefers more of an indirect approch by working out of the shadows(ash legion style).
Baelfire cleary took a stance against humans and the other highlegions, but Bangars(Blood Imperator) position is way more uncertain. While iron kind of had to work a peacetreaty out(otherwise they would have had to fight humans, ogres, branded, flame legion and ascalonian ghosts) blood never had that much pressure and is also way more isolated from those threats. It is rumored that Bangar only joined Ash and Iron though, because he feared, having to fight iron, ash AND flame, now that the flamelegion is down, we might see whoms side the Ruinbringer is really on, worst case scenario would be him deciding to declare war against iron and ash, with the survivors of the flame legion joining him(they would have to accept females among their ranks then, but I belive most flame grunts would rather join ranks with woman, then just going the way of the dodo), which would put blood into a reeaaaaly strong position.
There’s actually a theory that Bangar is behind the Renegades. If I recall correctly, it’s lore that most Renegades are, in fact, former Blood Legion.
Well… you can’t really say that Smodur waged the war, it was a war that went on for hundreds of years, he was just born into it, as are any other Charr and human.
Depends on how you define it. He didn’t start it, but he was responsible for managing it since he became Imperator. Which also gives him the authority to end it, unless another front opens up within another legion’s jurisdiction.
the problem is, the “rightful king of ascalon” would have to be the descendand from either king adelbern or duke barradin, but adelberns son prince Rurik died to an ambush of the stone summit dwarfs, and his wife, the daughter of duke barradin, got killed in the searing. Both were only childs and both died before they had children, therefore everyone who had any form of bloodright to the ascalonian throne died.
Wade Samuelsson, Commander of the Ebon Vanguard and Duke of Ebonhawke, descends from Ascalonian royalty.
Barradin likely had siblings or cousins that we didn’t know about. Royalty rarely have singular lines, but are often lines of kittens and younger siblings left to rule lesser lands.
Also, according to the Prophecies manual, Rurik was simply the eldest son. There was another kid we know nothing about – though Rurik was also the last child of Adelbern by the time the former died, so any younger sibling of Rurik was likely either dead or thought to be dead before 1072 AE.
Adlebern was not of royal blood either, yet he became king. Check out Ascalon’s Chosen. I think it would be entirely plausible that somewhere in Logan’s and Kerian’s ancestry there’s an illegitimate heir, unless ANet clarifies otherwise
While of commoner title, Adelbern was descended from King Doric, making him of royal blood.
I stand corrected.
I stand corrected.
I love that. I said the exact same thing to you and you refuted it…
Anyone of royal blood could declare themselves the rightful king including the illustrious Mad King Thorn who could bind the ghosts of Ascalon to himself instead of freeing them if he so desired(their theme music where you encounter them happens to be Mad King Thorn’s own theme music from GW 1 so it all works out).
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