Guild Wars 2

They made a home for themselves at Naulshead Refuge, only to be displaced by their fellows, finally settling on the Weeping Isle. There they continued the practice of their meditation techniques, through which they “have chosen to cut themselves off from the voice of the Pale Tree” and by extension, from the Dream. They are sylvari and they are called the Soundless…

The Soundless find the Dream taxing – a source of “constant pressure”; a cumbersome “burden” which they have sought relief from…

Naulshead Refuge is all but abandoned now, save for an asuran hermit. The only memory of the earliest days of the Soundless, a book – perhaps the journal of the very firstborn long-suspected of founding the movement – has been tossed aside. Incidentally, travelers to the site can be seen stooping to examine the writings. Here, in this discarded book, is the humblest expression of sylvari from firstborn to stillborn; here, in this unremembered testament, is the origins of sylvari villans from Faolin to Ceara.

Sylvari dream because the Pale Tree dreams and the Pale Tree probably dreams because she sleeps. But, if this is the case, unlike the Pale Tree, her children wake up – at least, that is what they believe. Sylvari may be trapped in what oneirology calls a “lucid dream” characterized by a perpetuation of “false awakenings”. They never do truly “wake up”; even when they are “awake” dreaming is such a normative experience for them that they cannot differentiate dream from reality. But this may not actually be normative for them – that is, the Pale Tree might not be meant to sleep. There was one who came, Harbinger, who did not suffer from the ill-effects of “lucid dreaming”. His tree did not dream; his tree probably did not sleep, not like the Pale Tree. The Harbinger’s people truly were free…

Faolin, Ceara, Nightmare sylvari, even the Soundless – they are all inevitable. Nor should their stories be the source of the demon-mongering of their memories. They are, in a sense, victims of a system trapping them in sensory overload – driving them into a maddening post-traumatic stress of obsessive compulsive disorders. The Soundless followed in the footsteps of a firstborn who learned this, led to a form of liberation; (The revelation that a firstborn pioneered the techniques utilized by the Soundless, perhaps even founded the movement, should not be ignored. There are only twelve firstborn and there is every possibility that the individual responsible was either Faolin or Caithe.) Nightmare sylvari spiraled out of control, led by another firstborn into the depths of dream-hell: Night terrors. None have found a way out. That will only come when the Pale Tree wakens.

A definition of Nightmare is “a dream which causes one to wake up in the middle of the sleep cycle and experience a negative emotion, such as fear”. It may be that with enough effort, Nightmare sylvari will finally free themselves from their own “bad dream” by jolting the Pale Tree awake from her own. I get the sense that Scarlet might be trying to do this too…

She is a revolutionary with sylvari sympathizers, the voice of twenty-five years of oppression. She is not the first, she will not be the last and her message must reach its intended audience.

Fanfic —→ https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/community/fangen

That’s just rude fox.
I’ve also held personal speculations of this being Caithe’s big secret. I just don’t research and therefore, do not post theories. But this is obviously not a fan fic have a little respect at least.

It is an interesting theory. Personally, I wouldn’t jump to Caithe or Faolain- they’re both very invested in their respective aspects of the Dream- but who knows? We know next to nothing about Caithe’s history before Edge of Destiny, other than a vague “she traveled and saw a great darkness”.

I had thought either this, or that or that perhaps, faolain saved her from falling to nightmare only to fall in her place.

Edusd.7893:

That’s just rude fox.
I’ve also held personal speculations of this being Caithe’s big secret. I just don’t research and therefore, do not post theories. But this is obviously not a fan fic have a little respect at least.

Sorry if it came across as rude but I couldn’t find anything in his post that suggested links to lore or speculation on links between things.
It is written as if it is fan fiction, it is titled as if it is fan fiction.

… Everything past the first paragraph is (perfectly valid, I might add) theorycrafting on the nature of the Dream, and what it means for the sylvari race. I’m not entirely sure what you mean, but I’m going to guess you either did a bare skim at best (something I would fault you on), or were put of by his rather distinctive style of portrayal (something I would tend to sympathize with).

Thoughts about the packaging, good or ill, aside, the meat is still sound.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

… Everything past the first paragraph is (perfectly valid, I might add) theorycrafting on the nature of the Dream, and what it means for the sylvari race. I’m not entirely sure what you mean, but I’m going to guess you either did a bare skim at best (something I would fault you on), or were put of by his rather distinctive style of portrayal (something I would tend to sympathize with).

Thoughts about the packaging, good or ill, aside, the meat is still sound.

It’s the style of the writing. I did read the whole thing, but the way it is written doesn’t clearly present what he is trying to theorise on. It’s more as if he has creatively re-written existing lore and tried to fill in the gaps as fan-fiction (note how none of it is presented as possibility but simply stated). Rather than, as one would expect, stating what we know and then suggesting what comes in between…

I gave you a +1 Foxx for having some class. I suppose I am just accustomed to his style of writing now, and maybe a little touchy as to some of the rampant flaming (no pun intended) of posts that has been going on lately. While there are almost always flaws in the theories posted here, I still appreciate those that do take the time to look into what they are theorizing about (even if they miss things) and try and postulate something new. You (Foxx) have always been one of the more knowledgeable people here and normally have been one of the more supportive members of this sub-forum, so I was a little shocked at your first reply here is all. All good though. I think Steven’s ideas have some solid ground beneath them. I wish I knew more to help round it out some, but I leave that to you guys who are far better at it than I.
I also still feel like Caithe’s secret could very well be tied to one of the 2 ideas put out above. does anyone have anything that debunks the thought?

I think (my) problem with the theory is that it is treating the Dream as some kind of forced experience that is slowly driving the Sylvari crazy. We have to remember that Sylvari do not have the same kind of growth cycle as the other races do – they are not born as babies, they don’t slowly experience the world around them as their brains develop to be ABLE to experience said world – they are born adults. The Dream is what allows them to function in the world from their birth, without the dream they would have to go through some kind of schooling in order to gain the same level of knowledge that they possess from birth.

I think it’s worth pointing out that with Soundless Sylvari they are disconnecting themselves from the Dream but not from the Pale Tree herself – she can still contact them, it’s just not as easy – it’s more that Soundless Sylvari find it difficult to live with (I think this is from an NPC dialogue, though I could not tell you which >.>) the constant presence of the Dream and the way it connects them to the other Sylvari.

I also feel like if the process of becoming Soundless was meant to be this kind of escape from the tyranny of the Dream or the Tree then it would be more obviously presented as such. The Soundless still want to live near other Sylvari and they still remain in close proximity to the Grove, I would think that they still follow Ventari’s teachings as well, they just seek a quieter, more private, life than Dreamers.

As for the possibility of it being Faolin developing the meditation technique – unlikely. The Nightmare Court’s purpose is to revert the tree to it’s natural state and from what we can observe in game they dislike the Soundless and view them as traitors to the Dream. That’s not to say a NC member might not act as a Soundless Sylvari in order to advance their cause, but I certainly don’t think one of them would have created the process in the first place.

Caithe is technically a possibility. I’m not sure we could reasonably argue one way or the other? But I personally feel as though it’s unlikely.

I feel like Dagonet is a possibility – as a Scholar who has studied the Dream of Dreams it would make sense that he might investigate how it could be circumvented in order to better understand what it is and how it works. But otherwise I would consider Riannoc a possibility. We have to actively go in search of what befall him which could possibly suggest that he wasn’t connected to the Dream and thus no other Sylvari knew (but then we don’t know how much enter’s the Dream and how directly knowledge can be gained). (There are three unknown firstborn, Anet will probably just invent one to fill the gap…)

that is a very good point. I do not know as much about them as a sect as I maybe should. I still think the act itself initially could be viewed negatively from “mother tree’s” perspective. How negative, would be hard to say. Any mother would be hurt, being shunned by her own children. Who’s to say how that affected her, or how she truly feels about them. Is it a craving to bring them back? A desire to punish them for their betrayal? Certainly the actions and activity of the NC are more of a pressing concern, since they are openly hostile towards her, but I’m sure she is anything but content with the situation. I say all that to say this. IF the Pale Tree does indeed view the act of becoming soundless as a sin against her, then she would feel even more angry with the child that made such a thing reality. This is why I feel like it could be the secret that Caithe is hiding. Perhaps in her travels with Faolain, she discovered the means to become soundless and passed on that knowledge. As a firstborn, and heroine of the sylvari, this would be a horrible thing to have come to light. If this is her secret and Scarlett knows this….that could make for an interesting story.

Edusd.7893:

-snip-

There’s remarkably little information on the Soundless anyway >.>
Sylvari are my favourites and when I first came across the Soundless I was intrigued and then kind of sad that there wasn’t a lot to find out.

As to your comments regarding the Pale Tree – she was born on the values of the Ventari tablet and loves all her children equally – even the ones who have descended into Nightmare. So I doubt she would have a problem with the Soundless, they’re her children and she loves them, I think she would understand their feelings.

Ventari’s Tablet states:
I. Live life well and fully, and waste nothing.
II. Do not fear difficulty. Hard ground makes strong roots.
III. The only lasting peace is the peace within your own soul.
IV. All things have a right to grow. The blossom is brother to the weed.
V. Never leave a wrong to ripen into evil or sorrow.
VI. Act with wisdom, but act.

I think III and IV are of particular note. The Soundless are looking for a peace within their soul, the point is that the Dream is a little too much for them, so I would say they are embodying that aspect. And of course my favourite, All things have a right to grow – I think she would love them simply because they are her children.

If the act of becoming Soundless were viewed as a direct betrayal of the Tree then the other Sylvari, not just the Nightmare Court, would probably be a lot angrier.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dorcha
- I think this dialogue piece is really good, the Sylvari certainly understand WHY some want to become Soundless, although I think it saddens them in some way. But they definitely don’t hate them for it, it’s sort of like they understand the reasoning behind it but at the same time can’t fathom being like that.

Also in regards to your comment on the NC being hostile towards the Pale Tree – I think technically, like all the other Sylvari, they love the tree. All of their actions are done in the attempt to put the Pale Tree into a state in which she is unaffected by Ventari’s Tablet which they view as a corrupting force on the Dream and on the true nature of the Sylvari. So they disagree with what she stands for, but still love her and want to make her, in their eyes, more pure.

The Pale Tree actually will talk about the Soundless if you’re a sylvari. She doesn’t say much about her opinion on them, but she does point out “Some cannot bare the burden of shared pain.” To me, that would seem to indicate a sympathetic outlook.

As she doesn’t even respond to the Nightmare Court with hostility- only sadness and pity- I can’t see her treating the Soundless as any worse than slightly wayward children.

As for the Nightmare Court’s treatment of the Tree… I actually think the way Ysvelta treats Tiachren in The Heart Of Nightmare is a really close parallel. They start out trying to win the Tree over to their side- that was, after all, the entire reason Cadeyrn founded it- but the Nightmare twists them, and the Pale Tree’s steadfast refusal to give credence to their beliefs and way of life slowly fosters hate. They’ve become estranged from their roots to the point that the Knight of Embers is gleeful towards the prospect of burning the Grove, and the Tree, to the ground- the only thing stopping them is their desire for sylvari supremacy, and by extension the need to preserve the source of sylvari.

It could still be something Caithe would be ashamed of starting. But I see you points.

I think some of the disagreements about Stephen’s writing style would be solved if he separated out the in game lore, his assumptions, and his speculations, rather than presenting them all together as a speculative reality.

Maybe, but that’s neither here nor there. We’re a forum; we have no standardized format, and we certainly have no standardized style, and we’re better off that way.

That’s true to an extent Aaron, but the English language, and every single other language, has rules that need to be followed in order for meaning to be understood. These rules allow us to look at a text and very quickly state what it is without necessarily needing to read through the whole thing. The formatting of an essay for example, or the style of language used in academic writing, the patterns that indicate something is poetry, the kind of title (often a pun) that indicates something is a news or interest article. My point being that when people read something and can’t adequately distinguish which parts are fact, which are speculation, etc. it becomes problematic.

The fact that the text reads in a certain way impedes understanding which restricts discussion, so whilst there shouldn’t be some formula for posting in the forum, there are ways of writing and separating ideas that can greatly assist in getting a discussion going.

I agree with you wholeheartedly, but it’s a fact that just needs to be worked around. In my experience, squashing creativity, however good the intent may be, will also kill enthusiasm, and that is more vital to a conversation than clarity. Better to ask for clarification than to castigate the author.