The Six Gods: Borrowed Power From Dragons
1 2
Overdone topic is overdone.
Theory: The human gods somehow harnessed the raw energy of dragons while the dragons slumbered, just like the Asura did, which explains why their power has waned during the awakening of the dragons. Perhaps they were even weakening and prolonging the awakening of the dragons by doing so.
Except that the asura are corrupted. Specifically, I’m referring to the Inquest – those influenced by the draconic energies do indeed become corrupted. Kudu somehow kept his own personality (I suspect this is where Zone Green comes in, and not that it’s related to an ED, given that next to no one knows of the sixth ED let alone its nature – no pun intended). The asura using Primordus’ energies didn’t become corrupted because Primordus does not corrupt living beings – so in turn neither their bodies nor minds were being corrupted.
Jormag, Kralkatorrik, and Zhaitan – at least (we don’t know if the DSD or Sixth ED corrupt living beings or not) – do corrupt living beings, however.
Your connections also fail a bit:
1) Dhuum’s never connected to ice, Grenth was even before being a god, when he was a mere half-god (one can argue that Grenth never supplanted Dhuum in the same means Kormir supplanted Abaddon, given that Grenth has always been attributed to ice, mortality, and judgement). And nothing states that ice must always have had a god – given how what Kormir governs (order, spirit, and truth) is very different from what Abaddon governed (water, secrets), it is not necessary for a 1 to 1 representation ratio (furthermore, order and spirit came from no where).
Furthermore, while Dwayna brings life, Grenth brings undeath as well as death – and Zhaitan is not only the undeath dragon, but also the Elder Death Dragon.
2) I fail to see a connection between Lyssa and Kralkatorrik – yes, they are both purple, but that’s about it. Lyssa’s pure raw energy, but Kralkatorrik doesn’t have this. The closest he gets is a bit of lightning, which Jormag and Zhaitan’s corruption also upholds. That’s just how energy in high concentration is represented – lightning. Truth be told, all gods have domain over energy – Lyssa is just “unattributed” and “chaos” in this regards.
3) Lyssa is two beings, so this kind of harms the theory too, since it’s no longer 1-to-1 god-to-dragon, but now 2-to-1 in her regards. To keep your theory up, we’d need a seventh dragon and are required to figure out where Lyss’s domain ends, and Ilya’s begins..
Side tangent: Furthering the whole “not 1 t o1 representation” bit – a fun fact to realize is that Abaddon’s related to not just water and knowledge, but also lies, illusions, and other things – he grotesquely overlaps with Lyssa, especially now that they have water.
The god’s influence and power waned when the dragons awoke.
Except that leaving does not equate becoming weaker.
And if they are becoming weaker in Tyria, then it’s more likely to be because the Elder Dragons feed off of magic – which, by the way, includes divine magic that is the gods’ and is outright stated to be different between the two (that is, draconic energies are outright stated to be 100% unique by Zojja in accordance to Snaff and the Inquest’s research – this includes being unique to the known divine magic which powers certain statues of the gods, such as the ones throughout Orr).
So, given that the gods’ divine magic is known to be different from the draconic energies used by the Elder Dragons, I think this goes to show that they are, indeed, of separate origins.
One can say there are a few kinds of magic in Guild Wars:
1) Draconic energy, unique unto the Elder Dragons
2) Divine energy, unique to – according to Kerrsh’s research – the Six Gods, Spirits of the Wild, and titans (side note: all of these beings come from the Mists)
3) Bloodstone magic, that is magic natural to Tyria uncorrupted by the Elder Dragons
4) Spiritual energy (may be same as Divine energy), energy gained from the innate power of souls (the source for Ritualists in GW1, and considered quite the delicacy by demons)
The gods were active on Tyria before they even brough the gods and the humans were clearly no more sophisticated than the Grawl as stated by the Jotun when they first arrived.
As stated by a jotun who’s false in about half of his information.
We know for a fact Thruln the Lost is wrong on quite a few sides of his “knowledge” – this is one such known fact, given the fact that even modern grawl couldn’t sail across the Unending Ocean, let alone build kingdoms within five years of landing on a continent – the kingdom in reference being the Primeval Dynasty, which began in 200 BE; humans arrived on continental Tyria and Elona in 205 BE. Furthermore, Cantha had existed for well over 300 years at that point.
(continuing in another post)
Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
remember this: with the humans came the human gods. the human gods were not in tyria before the humans, they arrived together. THAT is my proof. if humans came to tyria much after the first elder dragon attack, then so did the gods.
A bit off topic, but I just want to make a minor correction, a few actually:
1) The gods predate humans but, as Jeff Grubb says, “not by much” – how much is “much” in this case, is unknown.
2) However ,we know that the Six arrived after the mursaat-seer war and the writing of the Tome of Rubicon, which happened during the last ED rise (or rather, implied to have).
3) Given the forgotten are credited to be brought by the Six, we don’t really know when the Six arrived, and we know the forgotten were around at that time too. So the timeline could be: Elder Dragons rise->GL extinction at ~10,000 BE->writing of Tome of Rubicon and mursaat/seer war; mursaat flee the world->Six Gods arrive bringing forgotten->humans are brought to the world, the Elder Dragons slumber
We’re also told that the Forgotten arrived “on Tyria” in 1768 BE (iirc), about 1100 years prior to humanity’s oldest known records (but not when they arrived on the world). Though which Tyria is meant is unknown, this line is more than likely lies now. Though I propose an alternative to yet another lie:
I would argue personally that the forgotten went into the Mists, perhaps to chase down the betraying mursaat or find allies/tools against the inevitable return of the Elder Dragons. Here they stumbled upon the Six Gods, and together came to Tyria – hence why the Six Gods first arrived at Arah, which has known forgotten ruins in it. Zhaitan being there was, in this case, mere coincidence.
Irregardless of this, we’re given indications – though not proof due to the source – from the Durmand Priory that the Six Gods were, in fact, gods upon their arrival on Tyria. They were the ones, opening portals and sweeping the lands in fire or nature (Dwayna, Balthazar, and Melandru’s first recorded actions on Tyria respectively) right after arriving on Tyria.
Ah, sorry, went off on a tangent again.
there are hundreds of years where the human gods were gods and weren’t anywhere close to a dragon, and as such, their power does not come from the dragons. theory proven wrong. end of discussion.
Since you make this mistake repeatedly, allow me to state:
The Six Gods arrived on the world at The Artesian Waters – that is, at the water and magic source in Arah, separate from Zhaitan’s magic mind you. So when the Six Gods – and not the humans, as they didn’t arrive on continental Tyria until 205 BE – arrived on the world, they were relatively close to Zhaitan.
But to reiterate, I agree with you that the gods’ magic and the Elder Dragons’ magic is unrelated. If they were, then Zhaitan’s magic probably would have threatened to destroy everything, just like when Abaddon was killed.
I understand that the current pale tree has only been around for 250 years. What I don’t understand is what created the seed that created the pale tree. It’s my opinion that Tyria has seen Sylvari in the past.
It is possible – and my belief – that the sylvari are a new evolutionary stage of previous sentient plantlife. We have treants that are still around in GW2, but a lot of mobile sentient plants from GW1 have disappeared for unknown reasons. I would not doubt that they are a sub-species evolution of treants (both are based from trees) that has adapted to fit in more with their surrounding races.
P.S., I just love all the people using the wiki as official source – unless it’s a verbatim document like The Ecology of the Charr or The Movement of the World, it is fan-written and can be wrong.
Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Including charr as a playable race changed a lot. In Guild Wars: Prophecies the charr were invaders trying to take over human territory (and they didn’t really have personalities and we never saw female charr). And charr ate humans. Guild Wars 2 comes out we find the humans were the invaders, the charr were taking back their lands. And the charr didn’t really eat humans, calling them “meat” suddenly became just a way of taunting them.
I’m beginning to wonder if Abaddon wasn’t the good one and the other five the evil ones.
Overdone topic is overdone.
Oh the painful irony.
Dhuum’s never connected to ice, Grenth was even before being a god, when he was a mere half-god
If that’s true I was unaware. What are you basing that off of?
Furthermore, while Dwayna brings life, Grenth brings
It’s based on where the power originated from not neccesarily what’s been done with it later on. So we’re speaking of Dhuum not Grenth since that’s as far back as we know it goes.
And nothing states that ice must always have had a god
This theory is based off the gods supplementing their power with the dragon’s. I’m saying ice didn’t always have a god rather that Dhuum or whoever came before him brought that power into his fold.To me Zhaitan’s pattern is preservation even if it’s not as pretty as Dwayna.
Zhaitan is not only the undeath dragon, but also the Elder Death Dragon.
I wasn’t aware they had official titles. Where are those listed at?
A lot of people keep talking about how my match ups are wrong. That’s fine.
I’m not set on who could math up with who, however, that’s not what the theory hinges on. The theory is that the gods gained power and control over new aspects through somehow manipulating the power emanating from the dragons.
If you have a different opinion like people have given in this thread previously I continue to welcome it.
I fail to see a connection between Lyssa and Kralkatorrik
Energy storage in crystals, chaotic corruption of everything he breathed on rather than targeted corruption of individuals and patterns of chaotic storm energy similiar to mesmer abilities.
Lyssa is two beings, so this kind of harms the theory too, since it’s no longer 1-to-1 god-to-dragon, but now 2-to-1 in her regards. To keep your theory up, we’d need a seventh dragon and are required to figure out where Lyss’s domain ends, and Ilya’s begins..
Once again, it’s not based on who matches up with who. That’s open to interpretation and debate.
this would be my best guess for who would match up with each dragon
draconic energies are outright stated to be 100% unique by Zojja in accordance to Snaff and the Inquest’s research – this includes being unique to the known divine magic which powers certain statues of the gods, such as the ones throughout Orr…
I think this goes to show that they are, indeed, of separate origins.
That is a kitten (meow) fine point. My response to this won’t satisfy you nor should it. My theory is based on gods borrowing power from the dragon not that it was their only source. The communication ports the gods set up on Tyria seem like something unique to the gods. The power of the dragons seems to be control over certain aspects of Tyria instead.
Draconic energy, unique unto the Elder Dragons
2) Divine energy, unique to the Six Gods, Spirits of the Wild, and titans (side note: all of these beings come from the Mists)
One energy brought from the mists and use for certain things another gained from dragons and used to manipulate Tyria.
Regardless, I think you have a fair and strong point and I hope it doesn’t get lost. I’ve never tried to sell this theory as hard evidence of some new find rather a fun theory that I found interesting based on connection I had made in my head. What I love about the lore forums is you can bring up a topic that seems simple and it can turn into a discussion that leaves you even more educated in the lore. Sometimes wild theories like this get filled in further and bring more to light other times they only serve to educate on other aspects of the lore. I have no stake in either outcome and will be satisfied either way.
Actually i can bet that human gods are more powerful than dragons. And after we wipe off the dragons we miht fight some of these guys or like we could fight balthazar’s half brother.
1 2