Zietlogik [Warrior] Chronologix [Ranger] Ziet The Dreaded [Necromancer] Zietlogic [Revenant]
Achievements are the new "!"
More accurately, they’re a method of tracking tasks to accomplish.
Your basic modern quest is merely a task for your character to do, it’s just tied to a tracking system where you:
1. Interact with something to show your interest.
2. Accept the task.
3. After finishing, turn it in, possibly for reward.
Achievements do the same thing, it’s just you’ve had the task available and tracked from the beginning without the above steps.
So basically, achievements have ALWAYS been basic quests…because they’re doing the exact same thing, just without as much busywork. They’re all just tasks to do though, we just call them something else.
(edited by Vahkris.6847)
And after this recent livestream, the next content is all temporary as well. I don’t think Anet listens to its community very much, and if they do….they simply ignore it.
Gotta add more time-restricted quests/achievements for people to do, and never do again….since they physically won’t be able to.
I think I was way too hyped over this game…mainly from the 8 years I played GW1….but nearly every single developement choice they have making has been turning this game into a blob of un-interesting, bland, here today – gone tomorrow, massive mess of “content” and it is truly disappointing.
But hey, a wallet to hold the bazzilions of different tokens that shouldn’t have existed in the first place is a good thing at least.
As for the Achievements though, they need to be more like the bonus parts from the GW1 mission system. Almost like optional tasks, part of a primary task, that increases challenge and reward. Simply a parallel path you can attempt while doing the quest/original task. They shouldn’t be their own independant things.
Zietlogik [Warrior] Chronologix [Ranger] Ziet The Dreaded [Necromancer] Zietlogic [Revenant]
(edited by Zietlogik.6208)
I think I was way too hyped over this game…mainly from the 8 years I played GW1….but nearly every single developement choice they have making has been turning this game into a blob of un-interesting, bland, here today – gone tomorrow, massive mess of “content” and it is truly disappointing.
See, I tried GW1 and while I recognized it was a great game, it didn’t grab me. GW2, on the other hand, really grabs me because it actually feels like a living virtual world, which GW1 didn’t (to me). I suspect the playerbase of GW2 probably intersects with the natural playerbase of GW1 a bit, but GW2 is attracting a whole different type of player who wants something that GW1 couldn’t offer. After all, GW1 is still out there.
Devs generally don’t listen to forums unless there’s a real uproar that betokens players in-game feeling the same way. Nothing that goes on in these forums represents that level of concern from the majority of players who play the game, it’s just griping from the usual suspects.
I think I was way too hyped over this game…mainly from the 8 years I played GW1….but nearly every single developement choice they have making has been turning this game into a blob of un-interesting, bland, here today – gone tomorrow, massive mess of “content” and it is truly disappointing.
See, I tried GW1 and while I recognized it was a great game, it didn’t grab me. GW2, on the other hand, really grabs me because it actually feels like a living virtual world, which GW1 didn’t (to me). I suspect the playerbase of GW2 probably intersects with the natural playerbase of GW1 a bit, but GW2 is attracting a whole different type of player who wants something that GW1 couldn’t offer. After all, GW1 is still out there.
Devs generally don’t listen to forums unless there’s a real uproar that betokens players in-game feeling the same way. Nothing that goes on in these forums represents that level of concern from the majority of players who play the game, it’s just griping from the usual suspects.
GW1 didn’t grab me the first time I played it, in fact it took a few months before I even played it again, and it was because a friend was nagging me to try it again….but then for some reason I was stuck in it for the long run, so who knows.
And it seems Devs just don’t listen to the community…regardless of the forum. Some blatantly obvious things just go completely unnoticed, such as the Living Story temporary content…If there was any logical reason for some of these things to be temporary…i dunno
Just because they are part of the story, doesn’t mean they can’t be permanent….alot of things work regardless of its story status, but it will never happen. This content will simply become meaningless to people and anyone who feels the same as myself will simply leave and not even bother with it.
I know they probably listen, and read community comments, but just go ignored. I am honestly starting to think a third-party company who has shares in Anet have their hand in the pot a little more than Anet would like to tell us…leading to such additions such as constant temp content and money gouging through the Gem Store….the Game hasn’t really changed much for the better, temp content doesn’t matter, basic skill fixes here and there (and a ton that we still need but have been here probably since alpha)
I may be wrong…but I don’t actually see this game getting better all that much…they add what they want, take it away from us a month later, and rinse and repeat…and that is it. Nothing notable has changed in terms of sPvP, nothing notable has changed in terms of polishing up WvW (such as the maps..and no…adding new WvW rank garbage isn’t polish), Mid-level PvE zones are basically barren, Orr exists for pretty much just farming, Incredibly stupid mechanics still exist such as blinks, stealths, etc.
It is a game that can be enjoyable, but it is not becoming a better game as time goes on.
Zietlogik [Warrior] Chronologix [Ranger] Ziet The Dreaded [Necromancer] Zietlogic [Revenant]
More accurately, they’re a method of tracking tasks to accomplish.
Your basic modern quest is merely a task for your character to do, it’s just tied to a tracking system where you:
1. Interact with something to show your interest.
2. Accept the task.
3. After finishing, turn it in, possibly for reward.Achievements do the same thing, it’s just you’ve had the task available and tracked from the beginning without the above steps.
So basically, achievements have ALWAYS been basic quests…because they’re doing the exact same thing, just without as much busywork. They’re all just tasks to do though, we just call them something else.
The quests work as a form of storytelling, which in RPG’s have NEVER been a bad thing. Storytelling is never bad, it adds depth to the world.
- It’s a matter of having some depth to the world and the reason behind doing stuff. This is no longer your character on an epic quest through the world, you just kill stuff because “I’m counting how many spiders I’ve killed. 1.000! Success! Nobody else could do that! What an achievement!” – and that doesn’t add anything epic to the game.
- C’mon, I don’t mind the achievement system and the rewards that come with it, but these are not achievements.
- When it comes to questing and getting lore about the world and what has happened in the past 250, there must be a better way of doing it than the wiki and gw2 homepage and a panel in the game like this (There exists better game design than this already, and it is a matter of expanding upon that or re-arranging it to become something new and innovative)
Achievements are quests if you look at them that way. You can go out and beat 100 events for your monthly right now if you want to, OR you can put that to the back of your mind, and play the game. Achievements will come to you if you just play, or you can grind them out like quests, if that’s what you WANT to do.
Crash ~ Charr Reaper
Achievements are quests if you look at them that way. You can go out and beat 100 events for your monthly right now if you want to, OR you can put that to the back of your mind, and play the game. Achievements will come to you if you just play, or you can grind them out like quests, if that’s what you WANT to do.
That simply further proves that these are NOT achievements…they are a lesser form of quest…you can’t say that in other games you can’t finish a quest by doing other quests nearby as well. That just happens, but the way it is delivered in GW2 it is just tacked on.
Yes you can grind or just do the events while doing other things….how is that an achievement? having it handed to you for playing the game is definitely not the way to go. The fact that I can finish my monthly in 2 days (have done it for the past 3 monthlies) accidentally, not grinding, or anything makes it feel pitiful and worthless as a game feature (not the rewards…rewards are nice :P)
They need achievements to be ACTUAL achievements, and have the other things split into their own separate category, with its own separate rewards…maybe have a “Mundane task” panel that gives you bits of copper and stuff for completing them…that is our current achievement system.
We also need the return of “missions” ala GW1, these were all events that told you the lore and story of the game, not your personal story…that is its own thing, we need the story of the WORLD.
I would like to say that the current events are very…uneventful, they don’t tell you anything, they just have you helping the farmhand collect apples and getting kittens out of trees….adding on top of that the “achievements” of doing a bunch of these just feels repulsive, repetitive and boring. You don’t learn anything and you bairly do anything, yet the game and devs want you to do these over and over, more and more, ad nauseum with no real rhyme or reason.
Zietlogik [Warrior] Chronologix [Ranger] Ziet The Dreaded [Necromancer] Zietlogic [Revenant]
People seem to forget that this is still an MMO. Whatever else you may think it is, it’s not. It’s an MMO. To have a game that is playable forever, some things need to happen. Quests/Achievements are there to keep people moving. Once you get a level 80 character with perfect gear and everything, what point is there to ever playing on that one again (talking about open world, not pvp/wvw). The fact that they’re so easy is because of the tons of people that will gripe when things get too difficult for them. That’s why the harder ones or the ones that take more time and dedication to get come with titles. THOSE are what you show off. The fact that they’ve hidden that from some for this long just shows that they’re at least being somewhat original about it, which is the point, really. They’ve managed to get rid of grinding to level, but some MMO grind is just inescapable. Yet they’ve still made it fun and you still feel involved, whether it’s with other people, the area you’re in, or the NPCs, I’ve never felt like I’m just clicking around to kill a certain number of cliche fantasy animal to collect whatever drop item so some NPC can do something that really wasn’t worth my time helping them. And when it gets too close to becoming that, there’s humor tied in somewhere to show they meant it to be that way. Maybe I’m just lucky, or maybe it’s because I haven’t played the crap out of every MMO there is and don’t have a lot to compare this to.
I do however strongly agree about wanting the return of missions. I love it when I’m running through a place and talk to an NPC I’ve never bothered with before and find some little bit of lore or a link with someone across the map. As the game’s designed right now, you’re kind of rushed through places and there’s never really a reason to talk to NPCs except to get an event started. And when you know you’re just starting an event, are you really going to take the time to read what they’re saying or just click through the dialogue knowing what’s going to start up? When I’m playing, I constantly have the wiki and google open so I can look up NPC names or locations if I think there’s interesting lore somewhere, but there’s not much on the wiki and no one’s really talking online. Not that I’ve managed to find anyway. It’s like they think everyone playing has played GW1 to death and know everything available there plus what was on the wiki and whatever other sites. I don’t. When they said Evon Gnashblade’s fractal would have to do with some god, I had no idea who they were talking about. I tried looking into it further and found out he died at some point? Ok, that just makes me more confused. They should have gone WAY into lore before having this vote because I get the feeling (and I found people talking about rumors) that depending on who won a new part of the map might be opening.
Sorry to ramble. I rarely post and when I do I get carried away. I know I don’t have half the information I need in order to talk about this stuff, but I just can’t listen to people complaining about things that are going to happen anyway anymore.
More accurately, they’re a method of tracking tasks to accomplish.
Your basic modern quest is merely a task for your character to do, it’s just tied to a tracking system where you:
1. Interact with something to show your interest.
2. Accept the task.
3. After finishing, turn it in, possibly for reward.Achievements do the same thing, it’s just you’ve had the task available and tracked from the beginning without the above steps.
So basically, achievements have ALWAYS been basic quests…because they’re doing the exact same thing, just without as much busywork. They’re all just tasks to do though, we just call them something else.
The quests work as a form of storytelling, which in RPG’s have NEVER been a bad thing. Storytelling is never bad, it adds depth to the world.
- It’s a matter of having some depth to the world and the reason behind doing stuff. This is no longer your character on an epic quest through the world, you just kill stuff because “I’m counting how many spiders I’ve killed. 1.000! Success! Nobody else could do that! What an achievement!” – and that doesn’t add anything epic to the game.
- C’mon, I don’t mind the achievement system and the rewards that come with it, but these are not achievements.
- When it comes to questing and getting lore about the world and what has happened in the past 250, there must be a better way of doing it than the wiki and gw2 homepage and a panel in the game like this (There exists better game design than this already, and it is a matter of expanding upon that or re-arranging it to become something new and innovative)
Quests can work as a form of storytelling, but they do not intrinsically do so. Developers have to choose to add storytelling. They can also very easily be just someone giving you the required task steps with no story. Achievements can also be lore-filled, on the other hand, if developers choose to do so, by having the gaining of those achievements provide you with lore.
But traditionally quests are a trail of breadcrumbs. They give you experience boots and lead you to the next area where you will find more quests. The traditional quest and its design goal are replaced by hearts and story missions. Experience is primarily gotten through dynamic events that activate near the hearts you are lured to. You don’t need achievements to progress at all, but you get them as a side effect of progressing.
I didn’t go out and hunt 500 skritt to fulfill a requirement. I killed 500 skritt over a course of months of playing different characters in different areas.
I didn’t get map completion because of the explorer achievement. But I got the explorer achievements for each region while getting map completion.
The OPs perspective of achievements as quests means he has whipped himself in to a mind set where he has to complete achievements. I would wager along with that, that he thinks he also has to get them as quickly as possible. Meaning, doing the same thing over and over to get in a few hours what was meant to get casually over the course of weeks. That doesn’t sound fun at all and it’s totally avoidable.
The Kismet
Dragonbrand
Dragonbrand
People seem to forget that this is still an MMO. Whatever else you may think it is, it’s not. It’s an MMO. To have a game that is playable forever, some things need to happen. Quests/Achievements are there to keep people moving. Once you get a level 80 character with perfect gear and everything, what point is there to ever playing on that one again (talking about open world, not pvp/wvw). The fact that they’re so easy is because of the tons of people that will gripe when things get too difficult for them. That’s why the harder ones or the ones that take more time and dedication to get come with titles. THOSE are what you show off. The fact that they’ve hidden that from some for this long just shows that they’re at least being somewhat original about it, which is the point, really. They’ve managed to get rid of grinding to level, but some MMO grind is just inescapable. Yet they’ve still made it fun and you still feel involved, whether it’s with other people, the area you’re in, or the NPCs, I’ve never felt like I’m just clicking around to kill a certain number of cliche fantasy animal to collect whatever drop item so some NPC can do something that really wasn’t worth my time helping them. And when it gets too close to becoming that, there’s humor tied in somewhere to show they meant it to be that way. Maybe I’m just lucky, or maybe it’s because I haven’t played the crap out of every MMO there is and don’t have a lot to compare this to.
It seems noone gets this. In a subforum people are raging about something being too hard(Liadra) and then people mad about something being too easy in another( this thread. Much less whiny and much more ICWUTUDIDTHAR ANET, though). In one subforum someone is mad Anet focuses too much on PvP and not PvE and in another people are mad Anet focusing on Living Story and not needed PvP balance fixes. If Anet does anything someone will be mad but people still give suggestions in the forms of demands with an “I am right and there is no negative result from my fix” attitude.
This game cannot be perfect as everyone has different opinions. It does seem to have a little of everything for everyone so far and growing. Faster in some areas than in others but if you can’t trust ANet to get things done in a way that makes money and caters to us then you might as well gtfo.
The fact that this game has the MMO aspects that keep me enjoying it but toned them down to keep me from hating it is amazing. Anyway, I agree with Eravyn’s quoted post so much I just wanted to speak my mind.
But traditionally quests are a trail of breadcrumbs. They give you experience boots and lead you to the next area where you will find more quests.
Kinda, but that’s overstating how often they were originally used as such. Setting aside that “traditional questing” only really began in 2004 (previous games had quests but there generally wasn’t the massive emphasis on them), even in WoW and other MMOs like EQ2 only certain quests were breadcrumbs. The others usually sent you to complete a task, and then brought you back to the same NPC after that one task was completed. Developers used certain quests at certain points, specifically using the third part of what I listed above, to send you to another area, but the rest (IMO the majority) were usually generic tasks to give you something to do.
Originally, sometimes there’d even be a breadcrumb quest before you finished the questing in the area you were in, because they weren’t meant to guide you in a linear fashion through an area to follow a story, but were merely a way to entice players to go to one of the other areas for their level. In fact, it took a couple years after the 2004 era of MMOs before quests became the extremely guided mechanic they have become, leading players around every area by the nose instead of letting them explore and discover.
(edited by Vahkris.6847)