Guild Wars 2

Not a fan. The whole season was filled with shallow uninteresting characters lacking personality. The story itself was poorly delivered and over the top (Giant space robots from Venus!) to the point that I’m still not entirely clear on what was going on or why. Outside of a few minor things everything in the story arc required zerging to complete. Which is stupid. Being a cog in a war machine is not epic gameplay or all that fun and makes these shallow uninteresting characters all the more uninteresting and un-engaging. Why should I notice or care about these people at all when I personally am inconsequential to the events taking place? There is no connection there. If the events remain massive DPS fests and lack personal accomplishment (HATED the achievements that relied on random other people succeeding to complete!) then why bother participating? I’m not important in those situations. So why should these random NPCs be something to notice or even care about?

Okay, firstly, I write this PoV not as a “Pro Lesbian” guy but rather someone that writes stories, novels and role playing events.

Secondly, I have to explain my reason for not liking Rox and Braham in absolute contrast to the two mentioned chars the OP is evidently not fond of.

Jory and Kasmeer have the most character development of the 5 LS characters

Jory and Kasmeer have surprisingly the most character development out of the five which I think people haven’t really had the chance to pay attention to, but let me explain from the beginning.

Kasmeer in Southsun:
This was her first debut, before Jory was introduced, Kasmeer made a cameo appearance (everyone suspected she was Scarlet back then) and Lord Faren constantly attempted to make advances upon her.
However, even back then, Kasmeer clearly had an interest in a character named Jory (at the time I assumed Jory was a guy) who seemed to be her Aide back at D.R. and she was taking a short break from her usual escapades for Jory to enjoy SS (Which she didn’t get much chance to).
Despite Faren’s advances, Kasmeer sarcastically retaliates each and every one of them rather humorously which implies she never takes much interest in him, or men for that matter, it was blatantly obvious from day one, this char wasn’t going to develop to love Faren, she had someone else in her life.

Jory’s First Debut:
Jory first came in as this quirky, clearly Canthan investigator whom, honestly, I grew on immediately, I loved her from the start, she was flirty, playful and had a streak about her that kinda struck me as at least highly bi-curious.
Bi curiousity aside, she was fun, I liked her char, but more importantly, during her intro cinematic, she had a brief appearance of Logan Thackery, who also noted Kasmeers sudden arrival to the scene.
When helping her with the LA incident, Kas clearly appraises Jory highly, she really liked her a lot, being someone that can spot tropes 500 miles away, this lead me to two possibilities.
At the time, I still suspected Kas could be the “personal nemesis” and was some kind of spy, but then the other idea hit me, what if she just genuinely likes Jory?
So the other end of the coin came into the equation with the introduction of Scarlet.

Toxic Alliance:
This was the point that the romance between these two started to go from being partnership to something more. We clearly see at this point these two are actually working together actively to deal with this matter, and they definitely do not like what Scarlet is up to, or the Toxic Alliance.
When Kas gets injured, Jory is very clearly concerned, this wasn’t just char progression forced on us, these two chars “knew” each other for a while now, and we shouldn’t be surprised they actually care about one another.

The last few Patches:
Over the Origins of Madness to the Battle for LA, we have definitely seen that love blooms and over time it made a lot of sense these two would inevitably fall in love, even as Rox blatantly asks the question.
Some might not have had time to notice this but aside from Kas extremely emotional and EXTREMELY well voice acted tragic past (which broke me to tears, A-net, you really got me there) we also have another scene during escape from LA, where Jory actually talks about “her” family to Kas in turn, showing the char progression is mutual, these two want to know each other more, and get close to each other.
So by the time they kiss and there’s that wonderful happy ending moment, are you “honestly” that surprised that it lead to this? I for one, am not, I saw this coming 500 miles away.

My only interest now is to see a closure to Kas and Jory’s happy tale, since while I like them, I don’t know if this story could last with them as central chars forever. I believe with the closing epilogue they deserve to get married, then retired for a while until they come back for something epic together.

Part 1 over: Part 2:

Part 2:

My personal gripe with Rox and Braham

This is where I get gritty.

Rox:

Rox plot can best be summed up as this:
http://th04.deviantart.net/fs71/PRE/i/2012/365/5/1/notice_me_senpai_by_sypherella-d5psb1w.jpg

I really am not fond of her complex need to be loved by her half-brother Rytlock or to get into his Warband, her poor voice acting also makes her char feel very UN-emotional and UN-engaging since most of her lines feel like they were read from a script instead of acted from the heart.

She has the most “one” dimensional storyline of the entire cast so far, with almost no personality at all going for her, which is really disappointing me, since while I can see they were trying to go somewhere, it feels empty, and it needs more continuation, this char could make it into S2, if only to see her personality really bloom and to more heavily focus on her char development.

Braham:

Braham has a good voice actor, and a reletivley okay storyline. Taimi gave him much needed char development which is more than I can say for Rox, since at least he now has someone to protect.
That said, wait, didn’t he already have a girlfriend in Flame and Frost that was still alive last I recalled, where the hell is she, and why isn’t “she” in this storyline?
I cant remember her name to save my life, but I know he was in love, and I also feel he could do with more depth. His acting is solid, but until he grows out of being just a Norn stereotype, he feels surface simplistic and lacks any kind of personal growth.

For that reason, Braham needs more Eir time and Girlfriend time and Taimi time, most of all, he needs more story now his legs been broken (I’m sure its healing since, GW2 logic, you can heal death after all).

Taimi kind of suffers from the notice me senpai complex since shes overly fangirling over Scarlet which is both cute and annoying after a while.
Still, she definitely amuses me and makes me smile at how cute she can be, as well as clever.
She could do with more involvement but aside from that, I cant criticize what I’m only seeing on the surface.

Other than that, I feel like really the living story characters all have potential to be more than they are, but with Kas and Jory? What I will say is that I feel they need closure, as I mentioned already.

I am neither for or against LGBT or the whole “equal rights” or “its offensive to heterosexuality” logic, I don’t care, I’m a writer, my only interest is the story.

And I believe their story needs a happy ending, with rings, vows, and their little cottage together, for now.

It will also give Braham/Rox/Taimi more time to develop which I think is very important.

Yunigen.2897:

Guys, can we please go back to discussing as to why these two characters are dislikable/bland? Before statements like “If only Jory were a man” or “I hate LGBT content being milled out more than heterosexual content” were made, this thread was civil with its discussion, as what the OP wanted it to be.

I agree thank you very much =)

CaptainVanguard.4925:

Part 2:

My personal gripe with Rox and Braham

This is where I get gritty.

Rox:

Rox plot can best be summed up as this:
http://th04.deviantart.net/fs71/PRE/i/2012/365/5/1/notice_me_senpai_by_sypherella-d5psb1w.jpg

I really am not fond of her complex need to be loved by her half-brother Rytlock or to get into his Warband, her poor voice acting also makes her char feel very UN-emotional and UN-engaging since most of her lines feel like they were read from a script instead of acted from the heart.

I actually enjoy her voice acting but that’s just me and as for senpai I can understand that. But after not having finished Scarlet… I’m hoping it turns a little away from that. But I thank you for sharing your opinion I can see where you’re coming from. Even if I don’t agree =D

Vanguard, I believe Braham’s girlfriend, Ottilia, left him for a merchant. I believe that’s part of the reason Braham is now trying to create his legacy. Ottilia accused him of being content to live and die in craigstead and left as a result.

I hadn’t been playing through most of the LS where those two got introduced, since I mainly came back to defend Lion’s Arch. I didn’t even know they were a couple or anything, but really, I just thought it was cute. They were friends who were fighting together, and when one got injured, the other was utterly overjoyed to see that she was alright.

If anything, I dislike Rox. Her huge eyes look totally weird, and she doesn’t even sound like she has her own unique voice actor. She sounds almost exactly like the Female PC Charr to me.

I do echo the sentiment that they need to involve the PC more in the story though. Guild Wars 1 had the PC participating and speaking in cutscenes, and I guess the quick release of the LS makes it too difficult for them to bring the VAs back in to record new lines…

Marjory Delaqua: Krait bait.
Kasmeer Meade: I beg your pardon?
Marjory Delaqua: Oh, nothing. I was just imagining you going into that tower.

I had a good laugh

Yunigen.2897:

Guys, can we please go back to discussing as to why these two characters are dislikable/bland? Before statements like “If only Jory were a man” or “I hate LGBT content being milled out more than heterosexual content” were made, this thread was civil with its discussion, as what the OP wanted it to be.

My apologies.

Anyway, I really enjoy all of the new characters introduced with the Living Story. But it seems like they are starting to take too much of the spotlight. I think we can call this Destiny’s Edge-syndrome. I hope the writers remember that the players should still be the main character. I want to be part of the cut scenes, and I want to have dialogue. I would especially like it if my party members had dialogue as well. I understand that this could be problematic though, since this may end with several characters having the exact same voice. But there are ways around that. Maybe other party members could be given non-speaking roles in the cut scenes.

For example, when the Breachmaker is about to collapse, I want my character to turn around and yell: “Everyone to the exit! This thing is about to collapse!” And then I want my party members to nod in agreement, and run to the exit. -end cutscene-

Would this be hard to do?

I do not mind Marjory.

Kas on the other hand I am not a fan of, she called warriors stinky. While I (A warrior) was standing right next to her!

Kasmeer Meade: “Maybe we need a strong perfume like what I spray on a hankie when around…aromatic warriors.”

As for their relationship, that is a non-issue.

Vanthian.9267:

His statement is completely fine. He is allowed to disagree with you and the entirety of the LGBT community. He has just as much right to his opinion as you to yours.

He is entitled to his opinion. However his opinion is not immune to criticism or challenge or should have any importance in a civilized world the same way racism, sexism have no place either.

Vanthian.9267:

Disagreeing with that life style on a forum is not oppressing your life style.

Oh look the “gay lifestyle” term reared it’s head. It may seem harmless, but the implications of referring to a “gay lifestyle” is significant. It ‘Others’ the LGBT community, suggesting that they aren’t like straight people. It doesn’t encourage to relate to people who are gay. It doesn’t encourage to try to sympathise with the challenges that gay people have to face throughout their lives. It allows for a comfortable distance from the discrimination they face and that goes on all around us; after all, who asked them to choose this “lifestyle”?

The idea of the “gay lifestyle” is nothing but a huge, steaming plate of bullkitten served up by people who have made little-to-no effort to understand how their “opinions” harm other ppl. Just look at this entire thread where the very presence of a positive, open lesbian relationship in the forefront (cause those are a dime a dozen nowadays, right?) begets calls for their relationship to be hidden away like a dirty secret, their outright removal, death of one of the characters (cause lgbt couples shouldn’t stay alive), or turning one of them to the opposite gender so we can have a “morally approved” “normal” straight relationship. Basically for many of these ppl the very existance of these characters is an insult, a mistake to be corrected. But don’t forget that their opinions affect their real life behaviour as well, furthering bigotry in real life, causing real harm.

Also gay people don’t live a “gay lifestyle” in the way your son/daughter might suddenly decide to dress as a goth or listen to dubstep or whatever; we’re not talking about a hobby or a whim, we’re talking about very real lives and the people they love and choose to be intimate with, which mind you, is quite a big part of the human experience.

When you stop thinking of it as a “gay lifestyle” and start seeing it for what it is: people who are being unjustly judged and discriminated against based on who they love maybe you’ll understand why some ppl fight against this tooth and nail.

I’m okay with Kasmeer and Marjory. I hope Braham dies. I can’t stand a thought that new Destiny’s Edge will have such member.

Yunigen.2897:

Guys, can we please go back to discussing as to why these two characters are dislikable/bland? Before statements like “If only Jory were a man” or “I hate LGBT content being milled out more than heterosexual content” were made, this thread was civil with its discussion, as what the OP wanted it to be.

Yes, you are right, i did get carried away in the end but let’s be honest sooner or later we would have gotten to that point anyways.
As for them being bland, my beef is with Marjory. While she is explored as a character she just doesn’t get the growth or dynamics the other ones do, especially in contrast to Kasmeer who really evolved throughout the story (from cute, clueless bimbo to an actual fighter), Roxs and Brahams relationship or even the entertainment of the interactions between Taimi and Braham.
Basically put she’s just kinda there and has very few moments when she shines, and when she does it’s more about her proffesional expertise (tower of nightmares, the investigation mission) rather than her personality.

Katran.9186:

I’m okay with Kasmeer and Marjory. I hope Braham dies. I can’t stand a thought that new Destiny’s Edge will have such member.

What’s wrong with Braham?

Braham is a bit flat as a character. Plus I don’t think he is convincing as a Norn (more like a big human). What happened to the Norn from GW1?

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Braham is a bit flat as a character. Plus I don’t think he is convincing as a Norn (more like a big human). What happened to the Norn from GW1?

They got retconned when Arena Net took aboard new writers for Guild Wars 2. Braham is a fine example of the new writers at work in the Living Story.

Anyway to those that want him removed, if he was then we men have no representation in Destiny’s edge 2.0 any more!

Aedelric.1287:

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Braham is a bit flat as a character. Plus I don’t think he is convincing as a Norn (more like a big human). What happened to the Norn from GW1?

They got retconned when Arena Net took aboard new writers for Guild Wars 2. Braham is a fine example of the new writers at work in the Living Story.

Anyway to those that want him removed, if he was then we men have no representation in Destiny’s edge 2.0 any more!

Hey we don’t know if they’ll add other male chars later in season 2.

Yunigen.2897:

Guys, can we please go back to discussing as to why these two characters are dislikable/bland? Before statements like “If only Jory were a man” or “I hate LGBT content being milled out more than heterosexual content” were made, this thread was civil with its discussion, as what the OP wanted it to be.

Note that the discussion went off the rails and became uncivil not because of discussing the likeability of Marjory and Kasmeer, but because of people making discriminatory remarks about a simple kiss. Those people deserve to be called out for that.

I don’t think it’s nearly as bad as you make it out to be. People have expressed discomfort with the kiss scene, and to some extend, I can understand, or try to understand their feelings.

Calling it a lifestyle however, is outside reality. It’s incorrect. Homosexuality is a form of love, not a lifestyle.

And lets please not drag the Westboro Baptist Church into this. Those people express hatred on a level that is unparalleled, and is not reflected in this thread at all. Lets not overreact please.

Also, I understand that when I come into a discussion such as this one, that I can expect opposing opinions. No one is forcing me to post in this thread. If I don’t like the discussion, I don’t have to be here, and neither do you.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

I don’t think it’s nearly as bad as you make it out to be. People have expressed discomfort with the kiss scene, and to some extend, I can understand, or try to understand their feelings.

Calling it a lifestyle however, is outside reality. It’s incorrect. Homosexuality is a form of love, not a lifestyle.

And lets please not drag the Westboro Baptist Church into this. Those people express hatred on a level that is unparalleled, and is not reflected in this thread at all. Lets not overreact please.

Also, I understand that when I come into a discussion such as this one, that I can expect opposing opinions. No one is forcing me to post in this thread. If I don’t like the discussion, I don’t have to be here, and neither do you.

I want to note though, in some cases, “homosexuality” can be seen as lust, and not love. I’ve known a few females who enjoyed intimacy with other females, but did not “love” them.

I think it’s both love and lust, just depending on who the person is.

On Topic:

Although the conversation here has one far away from the central idea of whether or not someone likes the Jory/Kas or not, I want to take another stab at trying to explain how I feel about the “whole crew” that would be Destiny’s Edge 2.0…

I do feel like we need to flesh out the stories of the rest of the central characters.

I first met Braham when he was meeting with Rytlock back in one of the first LS chapters, and I kind of followed him around. I feel that he needs to have more of his story heard. In my opinion the following needs to be addressed:
1. Why is it that in the beginning, there was doubt as to whether or not Eir was really his mother, or he just thought she was. Also, why did I get the feelign that Eir just didn’t want to acknowledge him back then.

2. What drives him? Is it solely his wish to improve himself for his ex’s favor or is there something else.

3. Why does he want to help Rox get into a warband? just because he’s helping a friend, or is there somethng else there, like a blood oath or something?

As for Rox, I do not know her story so well, and maybe that’s the problem. Except for knowing about her desire to become part of the warband, I don’t know why, or how she came to be a gladium, or what her stake in Braham’s life is.

I like Taimi. I do believe she may evolve into something like the “good” side of Scarlet, as she seems to be as intelligent and hungry for knowledge as Scarlet was, but her heart is good. I very much hope that ANet doesn’t make her turn evil, or at least makes an effort to “save her” from whatever she may accidentally get herself into. She has the potential to be something very special in the upcoming chapters.

Finally, as for Jory and Kas…

When I first saw Kas, I got the impression that she was a spoiled rich kid dabbling in something her daddy didn’t want her to do. Her aide, Jory, was a slightly shady person with ties that aren’t readily known, and I truly got the impression that the two were hanging out together in order to kitten off Kas’s parents.

At first, when there was evidence of something more than a business relationship, again, I thought it was because Kas was trying to irritate her family, and until the Tower, I thought it would dissipate when there was a real danger.

Now that it’s a given that they are together, I am happy for them, but I still wonder if it will cause issues because Jory is not “of the same class of parentage” as Kas.

Do I like them? Kind of. I worry that ensemble casts tend to end up putting one or two people into the limelight and ignore the rest. Their story has great potential for future events, as long as Anet doesn’t expand upon them at the expense of Braham, Rox and Taimi.