Guild Wars 2

Don’t get me wrong, I love the idea. But this is the first time ArenaNet tries something like this, and they shouldn’t give the right to the players to decide permanent things – mostly if they aren’t involved in what they are deciding about.

The Fractal problem
Roughly 40% of the voters don’t play fractals. (based on a survey in a guild with 500 players) – nearly all of them are voting for Kiel, because she offers cheaper waypoint.

However, the 80% of Evon supporters vote for him to get the Fall of Abaddon fractal. – meaning that there’s a ways more desire for the Fall of Abaddon.

The waypoint problem
Whoever offers this, gets the casual playerbase’s vote. They have false hopes, many of them think it’s a permanent change/waypoints will be free.

Whoever wins, the majority will be angry
Sounds impossible, right? The thing is, if Kiel wins, fractal players will have a map 70-80% of them didn’t want.

If Evon gets to council, the casuals will be unhappy (for roughly 2 days).

Also casuals, don’t care about anything but shallow goals without thinking about the future. With the waypoints, Kiel has an iWin button. However, she is still leading the vote charts only by a bit, even after this.

Suggestion: make this a test for you, don’t skip one of the fractals, just develope that some months later. If one gets skipped, people will play the winner’s fractal with the thoughts: “I could be playing x right now”. Let the players decide the priority list of permanent contents, but nothing else! Both fractals can be awesome – reactor for GW2 players and Abaddon for GW1 players.

GW2 players don’t even know who is Abaddon (they should meet him for this reason), and it can be told about Evon too. You call this a fair vote? Still Kiel is barely winning. If they would have the same chances ( both would give reduced waypoint costs), Evon would lead by 70-30 at least.

Thanks for reading

I am not interested in dungeons, fractals or any type of PVP, WvW. Roughly 70% of the game does not interest me. So, I vote for Keil because she is not a murderer like Evon.

Ronah.2869:

I am not interested in dungeons, fractals or any type of PVP, WvW. Roughly 70% of the game does not interest me. So, I vote for Keil because she is not a murderer like Evon.

Welcome to the charr society. And Evon did that to save the people of LA.

1. were did you get these statistics?
2. As above, you have no way of knowing who likes what fractal more except for the fact that kiel is winning and even then the people voting for kiel could be voting for her for any number of reasons.
3. there going to be adding lots of new awesome things to BL chests and the new weapon skins are staying in them so plenty of people prefer this over the WP costs. It was also explained in detail on more than one occurrence that both of these bonuses will last only four weeks.
4. allot of people actually want the thaumanova fractal and your going to have to deal with that. same as 1. were did you get these statistics? there is know way to know which fractal is the most popular until its over.
5. Nice way to insult your fellow player base allow me to rebuttall. You sir/ma’am are an ignorant, misinformed individual who believes that your opinion is naturally the majority rule and in your self importance you have gone so far as to stupidly pull random statistics out the ether and try and pass it off as fact. You even go so far as to get up on a pedestal and lord your delusional self importance over your fellow player base. I say shame on you go eat a cookie.

I want the thaumanova fractal that’s why I vote for Keil, quite a few of the devs have said that fractal is far, far better than the Abaddon one, which apparently is medicore and disappointing…

Now I am off to vote 10,000 times for Keil…my poor finger…

Ronah.2869:

I am not interested in dungeons, fractals or any type of PVP, WvW. Roughly 70% of the game does not interest me. So, I vote for Keil because she is not a murderer like Evon.

Based on what we have seen Kiel have actually killed way more people than Evon

Meglobob.8620:

I want the thaumanova fractal that’s why I vote for Keil, quite a few of the devs have said that fractal is far, far better than the Abaddon one, which apparently is medicore and disappointing…

Actually no.
Not a single dev have said that. The only thing a dev have said about the Fractals is more or less: “I have worked with this one, so I prefer it if it won”.

Funny how that post seems to get more and more extreme everytime someone talks about it.

If I am somehow wrong and a dev have actually outright said that the reactor fractal is far far better than the abaddon one I would love to actually see said post.

I think the biggest issue with using the fractals as such a huge portion of your voting decision, regardless of who you’re voting for, is that we know pretty much nothing about either of them. Had we been given a draft of what little story the Fractal contained, maybe some concept art, a description of some of the enemies/bosses they might include, etc. I could see it mattering. Right now, however, anyone voting based on Fractal choice is simply guessing based on what they want the fractal to be and not at all on any sort of factual basis.

“But, but we would get to fight a god” you may be saying. Maybe, or maybe not. You don’t know that for a fact. You have no idea how the fractal would play out or be designed. Or, maybe you will fight a god.. but look how well that turned out in the previous instance where we fought a godlike creature in a group instance waves at Zhaitan.

What would’ve been a good idea:

Let us choose between the MF and AR, and produce both the Fall of Abbadon and Thaumanova.

But now they’ve just basically given us the worst possible outcome either way.

Meglobob.8620:

I want the thaumanova fractal that’s why I vote for Keil, quite a few of the devs have said that fractal is far, far better than the Abaddon one, which apparently is medicore and disappointing…

Now I am off to vote 10,000 times for Keil…my poor finger…

You’re absolutely right

Except everything you said in your post is absolutely wrong and putting words the mouth of the Devs

eekzie.5640:

What would’ve been a good idea:

Let us choose between the MF and AR, and produce both the Fall of Abbadon and Thaumanova.

But now they’ve just basically given us the worst possible outcome either way.

Honestly I think people would have been more upset if we had to choose between two we already know are both great.

Gandarel.5091:

[b]casuals, don’t care about anything but shallow goals without thinking about the future. With the waypoints, Kiel has an iWin button. However, she is still leading the vote charts only by a bit, even after this.

Seriously?

I’m voting for Kiel because I want the Thaumanova fractal. I think Abaddon will inevitably be disappointing. Not all “casuals” are voting for Kiel and not all “non-casuals” are voting for Gnashblade. Try not to be so polemic about this.

Alys Florent.1359:

Gandarel.5091:

[b]casuals, don’t care about anything but shallow goals without thinking about the future. With the waypoints, Kiel has an iWin button. However, she is still leading the vote charts only by a bit, even after this.

Seriously?

I’m voting for Kiel because I want the Thaumanova fractal. I think Abaddon will inevitably be disappointing. Not all “casuals” are voting for Kiel and not all “non-casuals” are voting for Gnashblade. Try not to be so polemic about this.

Who votes for Kiel because of the reactor, I don’t agree, but I accept that, since you know the options and vote for the permanent content.

But your Kiel couldn’t be winning without the waypoint costs that mezmerized 99% of the casuals. There’s a bigger desire for the fall of Abaddon, it’s just that everything else is against Evon.

lordkrall.7241:

Meglobob.8620:

I want the thaumanova fractal that’s why I vote for Keil, quite a few of the devs have said that fractal is far, far better than the Abaddon one, which apparently is medicore and disappointing…

Actually no.
Not a single dev have said that. The only thing a dev have said about the Fractals is more or less: “I have worked with this one, so I prefer it if it won”.

Celestina.2894:

Meglobob.8620:

I want the thaumanova fractal that’s why I vote for Keil, quite a few of the devs have said that fractal is far, far better than the Abaddon one, which apparently is medicore and disappointing…

Now I am off to vote 10,000 times for Keil…my poor finger…

You’re absolutely right

Except everything you said in your post is absolutely wrong and putting words the mouth of the Devs

Hey…don’t spoil my ‘political spin’…

This ‘spin’ and the ‘spin’ about the waypoint reduction being permanent works wonders…lol

Politics is dirty business…don’t you know…

As a very wise officer in my guild says, “Vote for Kiel, complain endlessly until Abbadon Fractal is eventually released in the future. Everyone wins”. That they already stated things about protests and caving before, or that the race is FAR closer than people would have thought (I personally though Kiel didn’t have a chance and I’d be stuck with Abbadon AGAIN – Also I think the race is a bit rigged; personal opinion though and not relevant!).

Organize a mass protest and try to do something about it in game? Frankly I guess it goes to show maybe more people want to explore the lore of GW2 and leave things in the past a ‘mystery’.

Let’s just not have another election. There was too much wrong with this one. They had their fun, the novelty wore off, time to do other things in the game.

The worst thing that could come from this is more elections and increased prominence of the characters elected. Depending on who makes up the vote, close to half of the players in the game are going to lose this month. They voted and they lost. The person they voted for, the things they wanted, they didn’t get in. Elections aren’t fun, there was novelty value in the beginning but it wore thin very quickly.

We will never know who voted for what and why, there are just too many variables. All we can do is make educated guesses.

Anyone who thinks this election is conclusive about any of the variables is a poor researcher. It’s entirely possible Kiel is being carried by WP costs alone, with a small but passionate minority that like the fractal. We just don’t won’t know.

One of the things about choice in the form of an election is that there will be a lot of losers. Players don’t like losing. Another thing about an election is that we spent a month having an election, not fighting dragons. It’s time to get back to being heroic adventurers and not replicating one of the lamest experiences in the real world.

Remember when we used to fight dragons?

The election hasn’t failed. It’s given players something to do, something to talk about, something to have fun with. It doesn’t matter if the election manifestos are unimportant. It doesn’t matter if the characters are stereotyped. It doesn’t matter too much that people didn’t like the mini games. That’ll all small stuff. The big picture was that something was happening that players could participate in and talk about.

Stooperdale.3560:

The election hasn’t failed. It’s given players something to do, something to talk about, something to have fun with. It doesn’t matter if the election manifestos are unimportant. It doesn’t matter if the characters are stereotyped. It doesn’t matter too much that people didn’t like the mini games. That’ll all small stuff. The big picture was that something was happening that players could participate in and talk about.

Until they added fractals.

The event was pretty one sided. Ellen was portrayed as the “good guy” we played many missions with her. Evon comes out of nowhere even though he existed before making him shady and nobody likes charr they are the least played race. They also associated evon with something most players hate which is RNG. Oh and your average person thinks the wp savings will be significant. Then there were players that still don’t know the difference between the fall and death and Abaddon

Meglobob.8620:

I want the thaumanova fractal that’s why I vote for Keil, quite a few of the devs have said that fractal is far, far better than the Abaddon one, which apparently is medicore and disappointing…

Now I am off to vote 10,000 times for Keil…my poor finger…

I thought the devs didn’t start working on the Fractals yet? How do they know it is better that is subjective. Seems like they pushed for Ellen because they can reuse a lot of inquest models for the reactor fractal saving them a lot of time.

When I read the OP it immediately became clear that, even if he did poll a 500 man guild, he isn’t even sure about his own statistics which leads me to believe he pulled them out of thin air. 70-80% didn’t want them <- it’s either one or the other, simple.

I think the vote is just fine, however, like said by some others. I would have liked to see some concept art and some clues for the reactor and abbaddon fractal. I don’t farm fractals but it would be nice to not vote semi-blind. As for my votes, the only votes Evon got from me were so I could do some support achievements. I vote for Kiel for a couple of reasons, she’s not a criminal, not a profiteer, waypoint cost reduction benefits me slightly whereas keys do not benefit me at all since I hate RNG and don’t support it. I also want to see the reactor because I am more interested in dragon magic and Asura than some god. The only thing that actually may have persuaded me to vote for Evon is purely because he is a Charr. Charr are awesome, sadly he had to be scum and lost my vote there.

They could have definetely improved the information regarding Living story by utilizing their personal story system. Give players a marker on their map on where to go and have some cutscenes portraying what’s going on, who offers what.. etc. This doesn’t even have to be limited to this LS, they can use the same method in the future.

If you surveyed a different guild you’d get different results, for example based on chat in my guild:

“over 95% of guildies simply delete the tokens and ignore the whole patch, because as usual it offers zero way for WvW players to get involved and requires vastly too much time away from defending our server (and providing those buffs) to bother with.”

Kalan.9705:

If you surveyed a different guild you’d get different results, for example based on chat in my guild:

“over 95% of guildies simply delete the tokens and ignore the whole patch, because as usual it offers zero way for WvW players to get involved and requires vastly too much time away from defending our server (and providing those buffs) to bother with.”

Who cares of endless war with no outcome? If it was more like 30 min match, then yea, but a week long. This is pretty useless.
Sorry, but many people don’t care of “defending” their server. Do they ever loose it? No. So why bother.

Kalan.9705:

If you surveyed a different guild you’d get different results, for example based on chat in my guild:

“over 95% of guildies simply delete the tokens and ignore the whole patch, because as usual it offers zero way for WvW players to get involved and requires vastly too much time away from defending our server (and providing those buffs) to bother with.”

It funny, WvW players spend so much time in WvW they think the WvW buffs matter to PvE players.

They could have tried to include WvW players in the promises. Maybe something like half price on supply or stealth traps for either candidate. I suspect the supply trap candidate would win that one, but it’s not like the election is full of lop sided nonsense.

Kalan.9705:

If you surveyed a different guild you’d get different results, for example based on chat in my guild:

“over 95% of guildies simply delete the tokens and ignore the whole patch, because as usual it offers zero way for WvW players to get involved and requires vastly too much time away from defending our server (and providing those buffs) to bother with.”

So you delete the tokens you have because taking it to the sanctum (roughly 2 mins) takes too much time for you.

The thing is I respect what you did btw, because you didn’t randomly influence the vote with just sympathy reasons if the change won’t affect you anyway.

Shiren.9532:

Kalan.9705:

If you surveyed a different guild you’d get different results, for example based on chat in my guild:

“over 95% of guildies simply delete the tokens and ignore the whole patch, because as usual it offers zero way for WvW players to get involved and requires vastly too much time away from defending our server (and providing those buffs) to bother with.”

It funny, WvW players spend so much time in WvW they think the WvW buffs matter to PvE players.

They could have tried to include WvW players in the promises. Maybe something like half price on supply or stealth traps for either candidate. I suspect the supply trap candidate would win that one, but it’s not like the election is full of lop sided nonsense.

It would have been nice if the manifesto of both candidates had acknowledged the wvw playerbase in some way with a choice of wvw effects, and there was somewhere inside wvw to utilise the tokens. This would have made it a patch that wvw guilds could finally care about.

You are assuming too much.

There’s 3 groups when it comes to vote here:

• Those who prefer to vote Kiel.
• Those who prefer to vote Evon.
• Those who vote Kiel because they do not want Evon to win.

Why I’m not mentioning “those who vote Evon so Kiel doesn’t win”?
Because she’s bland and plain enough for nobody to hate her enough for that.

And why do I make a distinction between “Kiel voters” and “anti-evon” voters?

Many people, some even without realizing it, are voting against how some things are done in the gem store (like the RNG boxes, or not selling unlocks for skins and clothes like in GW1).

That’s ANet’s fault. Evon, like it or not, is linked to the Gem Store, it’s a character that has become the personification of all the things players don’t like in the gem store.

Because of that Evon will probably lose. Because there’s both people voting Kiel because they like her or what she gives, and people voting Kiel because they do not want Evon to win because of what he represents.

Gandarel.5091:

[…]
Welcome to the charr society. And Evon did that to save the people of LA.

You don’t need to kill anything to get everything done:

Charr are not so different to humans that you can’t knock them down. All you have to do is leave, and come back, and stealthy take her down in a non-lethal way.
An open combat fight isn’t very Ash either.

One thing many have not realized is that some people do not care who gets elected.
I voted only to get the achievements and various rewards, not because I have strong feelings towards either candidate. And while I see many people invest in the election, I see just as many who do not care either way or are voting casually.

lordkrall.7241:

Meglobob.8620:

I want the thaumanova fractal that’s why I vote for Keil, quite a few of the devs have said that fractal is far, far better than the Abaddon one, which apparently is medicore and disappointing…

Actually no.
Not a single dev have said that. The only thing a dev have said about the Fractals is more or less: “I have worked with this one, so I prefer it if it won”.

Actually, neither of those is right.

He said he got excited about what they came up with when they brainstormed the Reactor.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/livingworld/cutthroat/IMO-ArenaNet-favors-Evon-Unfair/first#post2473277

Pfft. I think the election was partly Anet throwing up a trial balloon to see how important RNG lockboxes are to the players.

The vote is a warning shot across Anet’s bows. Most players either don’t like RNG boxes or don’t care about them. It’s ok that they’re there, some people like gambling, but the vote for Kiel was mainly a vote against making RNG any bigger than it is already in the game.

i.e. even when sweetened with what would have been more interesting content lore-wise, the players voted against.

That should tell Anet something.

Gandarel.5091:

Kalan.9705:

If you surveyed a different guild you’d get different results, for example based on chat in my guild:

“over 95% of guildies simply delete the tokens and ignore the whole patch, because as usual it offers zero way for WvW players to get involved and requires vastly too much time away from defending our server (and providing those buffs) to bother with.”

So you delete the tokens you have because taking it to the sanctum (roughly 2 mins) takes too much time for you.

The thing is I respect what you did btw, because you didn’t randomly influence the vote with just sympathy reasons if the change won’t affect you anyway.

One might contend that taking the tokens to the voting baskets to drop them off one at a time to influence what content the players may get to play later is the raw unadulterated essence of Boring Grind to get to the Fun Stuff. Furthermore, one might also contend that what those who voted for the winning candidate will actually have achieved is the dubious honor of being the ones who determined which candidate will be the proverbial poster child of Boring Grind to get to the Fun Stuff.

gurugeorge.9857:

Pfft. I think the election was partly Anet throwing up a trial balloon to see how important RNG lockboxes are to the players.

The vote is a warning shot across Anet’s bows. Most players either don’t like RNG boxes or don’t care about them. It’s ok that they’re there, some people like gambling, but the vote for Kiel was mainly a vote against making RNG any bigger than it is already in the game.

i.e. even when sweetened with what would have been more interesting content lore-wise, the players voted against.

That should tell Anet something.

This is very much the primary reason i vote for Kiel!

generalraccoon.3857:

gurugeorge.9857:

Pfft. I think the election was partly Anet throwing up a trial balloon to see how important RNG lockboxes are to the players.

The vote is a warning shot across Anet’s bows. Most players either don’t like RNG boxes or don’t care about them. It’s ok that they’re there, some people like gambling, but the vote for Kiel was mainly a vote against making RNG any bigger than it is already in the game.

i.e. even when sweetened with what would have been more interesting content lore-wise, the players voted against.

That should tell Anet something.

This is very much the primary reason i vote for Kiel!

the primary reason you got a so call promise that doesnt even exist, if you think 20 copper off WP is saving then you sir has no sense of profit making.

i dont really give rats a— abt saving off WP cost to be honest. Im happy enough it is there but couldnt be bothered if it wasn’t. for me, I’d do almost anything if it means i can show my support to any anti RNG cause.