OP, I am also fed up with what ANet has done since LWS2. It just doesn’t feel right for our toon to be so aggressively hateful towards Caithe, a character who is 1) a Firstborn, 2) a member of Destiny’s Edge, and 3) the Sylvari toons’ mentor. Why would anyone expect a character like that to have evil intentions? Misguided, maybe, and even good/important characters make mistakes, but not evil. I don’t know about the rest of you, but from the moment this whole egg and Caithe-distrust thing started, I never once assumed she was taking the egg for evil. I payed attention to the character, and I knew that I had nothing to worry about. And it turns out that my gut was RIGHT. There was nothing to worry about. She wasn’t bringing the egg to Mordremoth, but was trying to take it to Tarir. I never once doubted Caithe. I don’t understand the blind hatred, especially from our playable character. It goes against everything else that’s been established about our character since vanilla Personal Story.
Now, if anyone wants to try to pin Caithe’s past on her as evidence of being evil, might I point out that…
1) Caithe did love Faolain, and when you are in love, you don’t necessarily imagine that the other will turn out evil. I think Caithe definitely gave Faolain a benefit of a doubt initially, as would happen in real life.
2) Caithe did not willingly kill the Centaurs with the intent to wipe them out. She heard Faolain cry out, with absolutely zero context as to why, and rushed over to find them attacking her. Naturally, without context, she thought they started the fight. (It doesn’t help that the game forces us to fight, and that the Centaur leader and Faolain both decided to escalate matters. They are the guilty parties in this situation).
3) When Caithe killed Wynne, she did so to a) spare her from being tortured by Faolain (realizing how twisted she was at that point) and b) because Wynn didn’t want Faolain to learn the truth about Sylvari’s link to Mordremoth.
I just thin it’s ridiculous that no one seems to understand what it means to actually LISTEN to someone’s explanation for their actions, or the concept of forgiveness. It’s not always easy, but I don’t understand why the Commander continued to distrust Caithe or let her apologize even AFTER they had heard her explanation. Jesus… Just feel like the playable character is no longer “my” character(s) anymore due to what HoT and LWS2/3 has done to them, setting their personality in stone.
When faced with an innocent who feared being captured and tormented by someone that Caithe agreed would torture the poor woman, Caithe opted to kill the innocent rather than oppose the person she actually believed would commit the heinous act. This despite the fact that she was more powerful than the villain of the piece and could easily stop her.
Great hero there.
When faced with an innocent who feared being captured and tormented by someone that Caithe agreed would torture the poor woman, Caithe opted to kill the innocent rather than oppose the person she actually believed would commit the heinous act. This despite the fact that she was more powerful than the villain of the piece and could easily stop her.
Great hero there.
Didn’t you even pay attention to the fact that Wynne was adamant that she be killed? And I really don’t think that Faolain would be against trying to hurt Caithe if she stood in her way. It wasn’t that Caithe was trying to protect Faolain or anything of that sort. She just listened to the plea of this “innocent”, and I remember her expression and movements being hesitant. She didn’t enjoy it, but she couldn’t deny Wynne her request.
I never called her a “hero”, either. I noticed all of the anti-Caithe players like to put words into other people’s mouths. I don’t understand, is it just fun to hate on a video game character who’s never been portrayed as being evil?
When faced with an innocent who feared being captured and tormented by someone that Caithe agreed would torture the poor woman, Caithe opted to kill the innocent rather than oppose the person she actually believed would commit the heinous act. This despite the fact that she was more powerful than the villain of the piece and could easily stop her.
Great hero there.
You don’t have to hate every character who isn’t a hero. Besides, Wynne begged Caithe to kill her, because if Faolain didn’t get the information from her, then someone else eventually would, and Wynne knew that it was for the best for literally their entire race that she die before that happened. Caithe was absolutely devastated over this, but she carried out her friends wishes. How the kitten can you think that was an evil action, or one that should make you hate her?
Fact of the matter is, the hate towards Caither is almost 100% irrational, and its getting ridiculous.
When faced with an innocent who feared being captured and tormented by someone that Caithe agreed would torture the poor woman, Caithe opted to kill the innocent rather than oppose the person she actually believed would commit the heinous act. This despite the fact that she was more powerful than the villain of the piece and could easily stop her.
Great hero there.
You don’t have to hate every character who isn’t a hero. Besides, Wynne begged Caithe to kill her, because if Faolain didn’t get the information from her, then someone else eventually would, and Wynne knew that it was for the best for literally their entire race that she die before that happened. Caithe was absolutely devastated over this, but she carried out her friends wishes. How the kitten can you think that was an evil action, or one that should make you hate her?
Fact of the matter is, the hate towards Caither is almost 100% irrational, and its getting ridiculous.
Luckily I don’t hate Caithe. She is probably my favorite of the main NPC’s in game.
Wynne begged for death because it was either that or have Caithe allow Faolain, who she could stop if she chose to, torture her.
Caithe killed someone rather than expend the effort to stop someone else from torturing the innocent person.
The reason that Caithe is my favorite is precisely that she is such a terrible person. Someone so flawed as a person as to allow others to suffer and die rather than expend the tiniest bit of effort to aid them. Someone willing to kill the innocent rather than have to defend them against foes she could easily defeat. She is what the villains of this game could be with more interesting writing.
I love this character in the same way that I love great antiheroes, villains, and the like in all forms of entertainment. They are a delightful break from, “I am evil cuz its cool,” or that sentiment’s heroic counterpart.
OP, I am also fed up with what ANet has done since LWS2. It just doesn’t feel right for our toon to be so aggressively hateful towards Caithe, a character who is 1) a Firstborn, 2) a member of Destiny’s Edge, and 3) the Sylvari toons’ mentor. Why would anyone expect a character like that to have evil intentions?
It’s kinda awkward how they characterized the situation, because we had “Wary but trusting at the moment of betrayal” to “Hateful well after it” – It would have made more sense the other way around (Initial hatred and bile toward her, followed by softening as time passes and heads clear).
Frankly, I wish my personal character had roughed up Caithe if not outright killed her upon meeting again, if only from a result of her OWN character traits:
1. As a Blood Legion Charr, she was raised with and learned authority from Urvan Steelbane. Sure, he was incompetent and had several “What not to do” lessons learned, but there are reasons Abuse becomes a cycle.
2. Her own father pulled the exact same “Steal the important macguffin, and run away leaving those trying to bring him to justice in an even bigger mess” garbage, and she personally executed him for it. Caithe was essentially pulling the same thing, though.
3. My commander feared catastrophic military defeat (And loss of respect from such) more than anything else. Thanks to Caithe’s treacherous shenanigans, the Pact Commander was unable to be where she needed to be during the Assault on Mordremoth, leading to the complete annihilation of the Pact Fleet and its supplementary forces, which the Commander had personally worked to secure and ready for the assault. So, thanks to Caithe pulling the exact same treacherous bullkitten Vallus Smokemane did (Either without the excuse of a draconian commanding officer, or said draconian Commanding Officer being the Pact Commander), the commander failed Trahearne, failed Kryta, failed the Legions, failed Whitemane, and failed the Peackeepers with the waste of life and resources lost in the failed attack. Oh, and failed Trahearne and Destiny’s Edge by not being there (Considering the Pact Commander alone is 50% of their firepower, as observed by genius Zojja)
Of course, this is a very specific set of choices selected – for other options, being distrustful doesn’t make sense.
I agree all around, either way.
I think more time should have been invested into Caithe explaining what happened to her during Mordremoth’s terror reign — it should have been deeply implemented into the storyline instead of a superficial “Oh, by the way, sorry! It was all Mordremoth screwing with my mind, making me believe that taking the egg was part of my Wyld Hunt. Are we good again?” And then the way the player character reacted, pretty much like, “Oh, okay then, you are forgiven, but I’ll keep teasing you about it!”
For real?
It was quite laughable how the NPC would try explaining herself while we were fighting White Mantle together — sure, I have time listening and sorting things out in the middle of a fight.
Come on. That was the worst conclusion you could come up with regarding this particular storyline.
Sadly my post was lost at the end of the last page. It was a really good response to Moyayuki’s post at the beggining of this page…
Whatever. I’ll list a few facts along my own opinions.
Opinion: Caithe is good and has always been working for what she thinks is the greater good.
Fact: Caithe is unpredictable and dangerous.
Fact: Caithe has done a lost of questionable things, including murdering innocents by action and omission.
Opinion: Caithe is a great character full of ambiguity and complex moral dilemmas.
Fact: Being special, being good, being confused, being guided by a vision or being in love don’t spare you from being accountable for your wrongs.
Fact: Caithe has not paid for her crimes yet. She has not been judged by any formal court, and hasn’t past any special trial to prove herself and regain the trust previously destroyed.
Fact: No decent military leader would trust someone as moody, uncontrollable and skilled as Caithe. It would be irresponsible to have such a loose cannon near any major assets.
Fact: The commander knows all of this better than anyone, except (maybe) the pale tree.
Fact: Trust is not a requisite for forgiveness.
Opinion: The commander cares for Caithe and sees her as a friend.
Fact: We can’t trust all our loved ones. We try to keep those who screw up things often, under vigilance.
Opinion: The commander has already forgiven Caithe.
Opinion: The commander acts totally out of character, and breaks the logic of the story, by allowing Caithe in the chamber with Aurene.
Also a question:
Would you trust your newborn to your crazy aunt, that one you love a lot but puts fire to the kitchen every time she cooks? The same that the day before kidnapped the baby to protect him from “those evil doctors with their needles”?
And guys, I have to ask you: why are you not angry at Master of Peace??? Hm?
He hid the Egg and no one didn’t know about it. And the Egg was very important, but he hid the Egg and we could see it when he was in his agony. Yes, this was HIS secret and just very important situation forced him to show the Egg….
After Aerin’s death, he disappeared and he knew about the Egg, but we had to have a vision from Pale Tree and we had to have speak with Ogden until we knew about the Egg, and “honorable” Master of Peace didn’t say anyone, anything.
So why do you have pretension to Caithe, that she didn’t say that she killed Wynne, she traveled into Heart of Maguuma, she hid the secret of Sylvari.
If she would say, everyone would be against Sylvari. Asuras would make a lot of experimences. She cared about her kind. She saved us from a war Sylvari vs other races. But Caithe and other Firstborns prepared us, showed their trust towards allies.
You should accuse other too, for example:
Logan- he left other members of Destiny’s Edge and then Snaff and Glint died. And Destiny’s Edge stopped work. Because he had “a duty”.
Pale Tree- she hid a lot of secrets. And she hides 2 unknown Firstborn. She told us about the Egg, when she was not in good condition. Like Master of Peace.
Rytlock- he came from the Mists and he didn’t say anything what he saw exactly.
Marjory- she ls3 part2wants make something, what could have the bad consequenses. She didn't want listen to the Commander, and she wants use Lazarus for her interests.
Anyway, this thread began from Master of Peace and he became this avalanche of lies. He is guilty, that other Masters were in danger.
He said: “No. My journey has only just begun. You will tell my people that I am well and that I continue onward?”~Gates of Maguuma. He wanted to be the Egg’s bearer, he wanted come to Tarir, without our knowledge.
We knew EVERYTHING from visions, and nobody didn’t think, that he/she had to say about that. But seriously, if he would trust us, we would have not problems with Caithe, with anyone. A thread about Caithe was caused like a domino effect.
Everything started from Master of Peace. Haha, this is ridiculous “of Peace”… Master of Peace provoked a war.
Sadly my post was lost at the end of the last page. It was a really good response to Moyayuki’s post at the beggining of this page…
Whatever. I’ll list a few facts along my own opinions.
Opinion*Fact*: Caithe is good and has always been working for what she thinks is the greater good.
Fact*Opinion*: Caithe is unpredictable and dangerous.
Fact: Caithe has done a lost of questionable things, including murdering innocents by action and omission.
Opinion: Caithe is a great character full of ambiguity and complex moral dilemmas.
Fact: Being special, being good, being confused, being guided by a vision or being in love don’t spare you from being accountable for your wrongs.
Fact*Opinion*: Caithe has not paid for her crimes yet. She has not been judged by any formal court, and hasn’t past any special trial to prove herself and regain the trust previously destroyed. (This isn’t the US, there is no in game lore to suggest there should even be a trial to determine whether she is guilty of anything, you are projecting your personal bias against her into these “facts”. Not to mention, a lot of people don’t think she has done anything that needs “paying” for)
Fact: No decent military leader would trust someone as moody, uncontrollable and skilled as Caithe. It would be irresponsible to have such a loose cannon near any major assets.
Fact*Opinion*: The commander knows all of this better than anyone, except (maybe) the pale tree. (knows what exactly?)
Fact: Trust is not a requisite for forgiveness. (How is this even relevant? If we don’t need to be able to trust her then why the kitten can you not forgive her already?)
Opinion: The commander cares for Caithe and sees her as a friend.
Fact: We can’t trust all our loved ones. We try to keep those who screw up things often, under vigilance.
Opinion: The commander has already forgiven Caithe.
Opinion*Fact*: The commander acts totally out of character, and breaks the logic of the story, by allowing Caithe in the chamber with Aurene. (As has already been pointed out, the commander is indeed acting out of character in regards to his forced hate towards Caithe in LWS3. Its unlike his reactions to her in both the LWS2 *_and_ HoT storyline, not to mention that even if you believe his feelings towards her are justified, they happened out of order. The abnormal hate should have come immediately (aka LWS2 and HoT story) and then later (aka LWS3), he should have mellowed out into “I don’t trust you that much but as long as I can keep an eye on you I consider it fine for now”)*Also a question:
Would you trust your newborn to your crazy aunt, that one you love a lot but puts fire to the kitchen every time she cooks? The same that the day before kidnapped the baby to protect him from “those evil doctors with their needles”?
I’ve fixed some of your list for you. Stop projecting your personal bias into this, because now you are making stuff up.
Fact – You don’t like Caithe because she acted on instinct and did everything in her power to keep the egg and the entire Sylvari race safe. Which means she did things differently then you would have done if you were in her shoes.
That doesn’t make her a bad person. And it absolutely does not justify the abnormally high levels of hate some people show towards her, its almost unhealthy honestly.
And lastly the analogy you presented is incorrect, again influenced very heavily by your bias
And something else: Caithe is not the person, who caused everything, she is the victim of incompetence Master of Peace, like the Commander and others, which trusted in him.
(edited by Arden.7480)
@Ardid – You just summed up part of what it means to be a chaotic good character though. That’s the whole point, if she did things the same way you would and you expect her to, with no surprises and whatnot, then she wouldn’t even be chaotic good, she would be lawful or neutral good.
Whether you agree with her methods or not, her intentions are clear and that is good enough for me and others. I don’t understand why so many people in this community seem to have such a huge problem grasping that though.
I DO think Caithe is working for the greater good. I DO believe the commander itself also believes that. That has never been the point for me at least. IMO She IS GOOD.
BUT.
Being good DON’T prevent you from making mistakes, and DON’T excuse you from being accountable for your faults. Being good also DON’T make you less stupid, unpredictable or dangerous. Being good doesn’t make you less a liability, specially when you have demonstrated, once and again, that your good choices hurt people.
The Commander shouldn’t never, ever, trust Caithe with anything, much less with a young dragon.
My point has never been “Caithe is evil”. My point has always been “Caithe is guilty”.
Good =/= Not-Guilty.
I don’t understand why so many people in this community seem to have such a huge problem grasping that though.
Its because everyone is looking at the full picture.
Take into account your personal story, the Zhaitan story, Living World Story and throw in the fact that you are suppose to be friends with Caithe. The Sylvari helped out so much against Zhaitan with Caithe and Trahearne being huge parts of it.
Your character doesnt seem to really care that you personally cut down the commander the pact. Your character didnt seem to care much about the pale tree and you werent much of a friend to Caithe when she messed up.
You say you should never trust her and you also talk about how no one is perfect. Its a high and mighty stance to take when saying you should never trust her as well as saying shes guilty.
I mean your the commander and yet Marjory is telling you what your gonna do? There is a ton of things that could be pointed out that show the commander is kind of a dumb punching bag.
I fully agree. The commander is super-bland and tend to decide thing “because the plot”. The commander is also a very entitled assasin: the principal power in his hands is the raw ability to kill things. I have stated that several times already.
Then we agree the commander is not reacting properly to threats, affections and relationships? Ok, nice.
How knowing all this make the commander leaving the new dragon in the hands of a potential threat more believable?
(edited by Ardid.7203)
Sadly my post was lost at the end of the last page. It was a really good response to Moyayuki’s post at the beggining of this page…
Whatever. I’ll list a few facts along my own opinions.
Opinion*Fact*: Caithe is good and has always been working for what she thinks is the greater good.
Fact*Opinion*: Caithe is unpredictable and dangerous.
Fact: Caithe has done a lost of questionable things, including murdering innocents by action and omission.
Opinion: Caithe is a great character full of ambiguity and complex moral dilemmas.
Fact: Being special, being good, being confused, being guided by a vision or being in love don’t spare you from being accountable for your wrongs.
Fact*Opinion*: Caithe has not paid for her crimes yet. She has not been judged by any formal court, and hasn’t past any special trial to prove herself and regain the trust previously destroyed. (This isn’t the US, there is no in game lore to suggest there should even be a trial to determine whether she is guilty of anything, you are projecting your personal bias against her into these “facts”. Not to mention, a lot of people don’t think she has done anything that needs “paying” for)
Fact: No decent military leader would trust someone as moody, uncontrollable and skilled as Caithe. It would be irresponsible to have such a loose cannon near any major assets.
Fact*Opinion*: The commander knows all of this better than anyone, except (maybe) the pale tree. (knows what exactly?)
Fact: Trust is not a requisite for forgiveness. (How is this even relevant? If we don’t need to be able to trust her then why the kitten can you not forgive her already?)
Opinion: The commander cares for Caithe and sees her as a friend.
Fact: We can’t trust all our loved ones. We try to keep those who screw up things often, under vigilance.
Opinion: The commander has already forgiven Caithe.
Opinion*Fact*: The commander acts totally out of character, and breaks the logic of the story, by allowing Caithe in the chamber with Aurene. (As has already been pointed out, the commander is indeed acting out of character in regards to his forced hate towards Caithe in LWS3. Its unlike his reactions to her in both the LWS2 *_and_ HoT storyline, not to mention that even if you believe his feelings towards her are justified, they happened out of order. The abnormal hate should have come immediately (aka LWS2 and HoT story) and then later (aka LWS3), he should have mellowed out into “I don’t trust you that much but as long as I can keep an eye on you I consider it fine for now”)*Also a question:
Would you trust your newborn to your crazy aunt, that one you love a lot but puts fire to the kitchen every time she cooks? The same that the day before kidnapped the baby to protect him from “those evil doctors with their needles”?I’ve fixed some of your list for you. Stop projecting your personal bias into this, because now you are making stuff up.
Fact – You don’t like Caithe because she acted on instinct and did everything in her power to keep the egg and the entire Sylvari race safe. Which means she did things differently then you would have done if you were in her shoes.
That doesn’t make her a bad person. And it absolutely does not justify the abnormally high levels of hate some people show towards her, its almost unhealthy honestly.
And lastly the analogy you presented is incorrect, again influenced very heavily by your bias
Fact: You are attacking me personally now, yet you cant answer the questions I have asked.
I would love if you could explain which is my bias, because I don’t see it. Also I would like to see where have I said I don’t like Caithe. Why do you think I hate her?
Doing things in the name of love is not for the greater good. Not by any means.
The messenger in your post is not chaotic good, hes neutral good at best (but really with just a single sentence describing him its effectively impossible to categorize him appropriately anyway). Caithe is absolutely not neutral, she is very much good aligned. Just because you don’t like her doesn’t change that. Just because you disagree with her methods doesn’t change that.
If she was neutral she would have always acted towards her personal best interest. Instead we see her multiple times acting against her personal interest (killing her sister is a big giveaway) in order to advance what she considers the greater good. There is no way she is a neutral character.
If she was interested in the greater good, she would have ended Faolain after slaughtering those centaurs instead of Wynn. She and Wynn both knew that she only cared for power and had a chip on her shoulder for their Mother. Instead, she let Faolain live, then she formed the Nightmare Court, which later on, caused numerous more deaths and atrocities. Caithe’s judgement is horrible.
Blinded by love. Happens in stories all the kittening time.
Again none of this points to Caithe not working for the greater good, none of it.
And guys, I have to ask you: why are you not angry at Master of Peace??? Hm?
He hid the Egg and no one didn’t know about it. And the Egg was very important, but he hid the Egg and we could see it when he was in his agony. Yes, this was HIS secret and just very important situation forced him to show the Egg….
After Aerin’s death, he disappeared and he knew about the Egg, but we had to have a vision from Pale Tree and we had to have speak with Ogden until we knew about the Egg, and “honorable” Master of Peace didn’t say anyone, anything.
So why do you have pretension to Caithe, that she didn’t say that she killed Wynne, she traveled into Heart of Maguuma, she hid the secret of Sylvari.
If she would say, everyone would be against Sylvari. Asuras would make a lot of experimences. She cared about her kind. She saved us from a war Sylvari vs other races. But Caithe and other Firstborns prepared us, showed their trust towards allies.
You should accuse other too, for example:
Logan- he left other members of Destiny’s Edge and then Snaff and Glint died. And Destiny’s Edge stopped work. Because he had “a duty”.
Pale Tree- she hid a lot of secrets. And she hides 2 unknown Firstborn. She told us about the Egg, when she was not in good condition. Like Master of Peace.
Rytlock- he came from the Mists and he didn’t say anything what he saw exactly.
Marjory- she ls3 part2wants make something, what could have the bad consequenses. She didn't want listen to the Commander, and she wants use Lazarus for her interests.Anyway, this thread began from Master of Peace and he became this avalanche of lies. He is guilty, that other Masters were in danger.
He said: “No. My journey has only just begun. You will tell my people that I am well and that I continue onward?”~Gates of Maguuma. He wanted to be the Egg’s bearer, he wanted come to Tarir, without our knowledge.
We knew EVERYTHING from visions, and nobody didn’t think, that he/she had to say about that. But seriously, if he would trust us, we would have not problems with Caithe, with anyone. A thread about Caithe was caused like a domino effect.
Everything started from Master of Peace. Haha, this is ridiculous “of Peace”… Master of Peace provoked a war.
The Master of Peace did fail looking for a safe place for the egg, yes. We knew he went into Glint’s lair, yes. We know that he obtained her last egg, yes. We know that every sentient life on Tyria would want it, yes. But to say he knew everything, wanted to be the egg bearer, and that he provoked a war is grasping at straws. If he was lying, wouldn’t Kaz be able to sense it like she did with the dying Zepyrhrite?
(edited by Zeivu.3615)
Sadly my post was lost at the end of the last page. It was a really good response to Moyayuki’s post at the beggining of this page…
Whatever. I’ll list a few facts along my own opinions.
Opinion*Fact*: Caithe is good and has always been working for what she thinks is the greater good.
Fact*Opinion*: Caithe is unpredictable and dangerous.
Fact: Caithe has done a lost of questionable things, including murdering innocents by action and omission.
Opinion: Caithe is a great character full of ambiguity and complex moral dilemmas.
Fact: Being special, being good, being confused, being guided by a vision or being in love don’t spare you from being accountable for your wrongs.
Fact*Opinion*: Caithe has not paid for her crimes yet. She has not been judged by any formal court, and hasn’t past any special trial to prove herself and regain the trust previously destroyed. (This isn’t the US, there is no in game lore to suggest there should even be a trial to determine whether she is guilty of anything, you are projecting your personal bias against her into these “facts”. Not to mention, a lot of people don’t think she has done anything that needs “paying” for)
Fact: No decent military leader would trust someone as moody, uncontrollable and skilled as Caithe. It would be irresponsible to have such a loose cannon near any major assets.
Fact*Opinion*: The commander knows all of this better than anyone, except (maybe) the pale tree. (knows what exactly?)
Fact: Trust is not a requisite for forgiveness. (How is this even relevant? If we don’t need to be able to trust her then why the kitten can you not forgive her already?)
Opinion: The commander cares for Caithe and sees her as a friend.
Fact: We can’t trust all our loved ones. We try to keep those who screw up things often, under vigilance.
Opinion: The commander has already forgiven Caithe.
Opinion*Fact*: The commander acts totally out of character, and breaks the logic of the story, by allowing Caithe in the chamber with Aurene. (As has already been pointed out, the commander is indeed acting out of character in regards to his forced hate towards Caithe in LWS3. Its unlike his reactions to her in both the LWS2 *_and_ HoT storyline, not to mention that even if you believe his feelings towards her are justified, they happened out of order. The abnormal hate should have come immediately (aka LWS2 and HoT story) and then later (aka LWS3), he should have mellowed out into “I don’t trust you that much but as long as I can keep an eye on you I consider it fine for now”)*Also a question:
Would you trust your newborn to your crazy aunt, that one you love a lot but puts fire to the kitchen every time she cooks? The same that the day before kidnapped the baby to protect him from “those evil doctors with their needles”?I’ve fixed some of your list for you. Stop projecting your personal bias into this, because now you are making stuff up.
Fact – You don’t like Caithe because she acted on instinct and did everything in her power to keep the egg and the entire Sylvari race safe. Which means she did things differently then you would have done if you were in her shoes.
That doesn’t make her a bad person. And it absolutely does not justify the abnormally high levels of hate some people show towards her, its almost unhealthy honestly.
And lastly the analogy you presented is incorrect, again influenced very heavily by your bias
Fact: You are attacking me personally now, yet you cant answer the questions I have asked.
I would love if you could explain which is my bias, because I don’t see it. Also I would like to see where have I said I don’t like Caithe. Why do you think I hate her?
I am not attacking you personally, I am pointing out how you are interjecting personal bias into your judgement of Caithe.
And I didn’t answer your question because it isn’t relevant to the discussion. An aunt that starts fires when she cooks is equivalent to what Caithe did? Hardly.
“The Master of Peace did fail looking for a safe place for the egg, yes. We knew he went into Glint’s lair, yes. We know that he obtained her last egg, yes. We know that every sentient life on Tyria would want it, yes. But to say he knew everything, wanted to be the egg bearer, and that he provoked a war is grasping at straws. If he was lying, wouldn’t Kaz be able to sense it like she did with the dying Zepyrhrite?”~Zeivu.3615
I do not have pretensions, that he was 1st bearer. But he didn’t say anything what he saw. We trusted him, and was really nearby to lost the Egg. He should tell us about the Egg, who gave it to him. But as I said, he escaped from area, where Aerin died, and he just said: “My journey has only just begun”. And in Entanglement, Dragon’s Reach 1&2, no one didn’t think, where he is traveling. At least the Pale Tree showed the vision.
Kasmeer is not omniscient. And she was wrong with Morning. She didn’t lie. She was in agony and look: Hey guys, I am in agony, but I will tell you everything. What do you want to know? Just quickly, I am dying. …
“I don’t…know why. But the sylvari is trying to kill him. Please…”~Morning
First theory:
Master of Peace didn’t say even Zephirites about his secret, but Aerin probably knew it.
Second theory:
Master of Peace and Zephirites are liars, and everyone hid the truth.
Kasmeer said: “Zephyrite was lying.” first and then “She didn’t give us the whole truth.”. So did Morning lie or just didn’t say whole truth?
Kasmeer accused her, but Morning couldn’t defend herself.
Doesn’t matter he wanted find “a safe place for the egg”, “he obtained her last egg”. But he didn’t say anyone that he has the Egg.
He provoked a war. If he would say us in Gate of Maguuma about the Egg, we could work with him together.
You accuse Caithe that she hid the truth, but look deeper into this:
Wynne: We come from the jungle dragon. We belong to it. We’re meant to serve it.
Caithe: You’re lying!
Wynne: I saw it in my Dream. And if Faolain knew, she wouldn’t keep it a secret.
Wynne said “we come from the jungle dragon” Caithe was confused, but when she told, that she “saw it in my Dream”, she changed quickly her mind. This is the power of Dream, and Caithe got a call from the Dream, that she had to protect the Egg (2nd Wyld Hunt). And the rejection of Wyld Hunt is for Sylvari fooling themselves.
She was placed under the wall:
“When word got out, the world would see us as monsters.”
She was shocked, that the Pale Tree gave us the seeds. How would you feel, when someone would tell everyone your the biggest secret?
“Our mother? She led you to this knowledge? Why?”
And I am right, that she was scared about her kind:
“None of us are who others perceive us to be. My actions put the future of our race squarely on my shoulders.”
Ok, she heared the last words of Master of Peace:
“Quickly… (cough) Kneel beside me. I have… (cough) I’m dying. You’re our only hope now. Listen…closely. I have something…I can no longer protect. You must…understand…its importance to Tyria’s future…” Haha, This is ridiculous: I am dying and you are our last hope. So he waited until, he lost and the Commander will protect the Egg finally…
Marjory was very suspicious. She had a desire for the Egg as well.
Like something enlightened said: “The egg…” and she said this: “Caithe! Wait! What do you think you’re doing?”, and it was not the Commander, but Jory.
And she especially doesn’t like Caithe. The Commander is talking to Caithe with irony, but Marjory with hate, like: you didn’t cross a Commander’s plan, even more than mine.
She wants revange on the Commander. And the situation from last chapter Dragon Vigil is a proof for this. “I won’t be told what I can and can’t do.”
And the Commander didn’t be angry because of Caithe, the Commander said:
“She did it to protect the egg, I’m sure. I’ll thank her when we catch up.” The Commander said this without regrets, like she is my friend and I trust her.
(edited by Arden.7480)
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