Giant is good world boss design

Giant is good world boss design

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Posted by: Fluffball.8307

Fluffball.8307

Let’s compare with the Claw of Jormag:

  • It forces you to remain pew pewing at max range.
  • None of the attacks are particularly worth dodging; even in full beserker you can eat the ice drops without moving.
  • Periods of brain-dead DPSing with literally zero mechanics after you pew pew the shield down.
  • Has copious amount of champs and vets that make the combat annoying and tedious; you either ignore them and they down people 1 at a time, or you kill them for little to no gain.

The giant:

  • Can easily down you, so you can’t afk, yet it has mechanics that are instantly understood so you can hop right in to melee range and actively play.
  • There are not 40 champs randomly downing people.
  • Does not have random death moves; to this day I have no idea what the karka queen’s attacks and tells are because there is no reason to bother fighting in melee range.
  • Lets us use our skills like condi removal, stun breaks, reflects, blocks, etc.

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Posted by: Vol.7601

Vol.7601

If I could tap the boss for 1 minute, go to the washroom for 5 minutes and return with the giant at 40%, then Iquestion if the boss is designed properly.

It needs fixing in terms of scaling.

Not to mention all I have to do is auto attack…

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Posted by: Zietlogik.6208

Zietlogik.6208

Another issue is that it isn’t linked to anything, it just spawns, and very frequently for that matter.

There doesn’t feel like a reason to fight it, even though the fight is insanely easy.

Zietlogik [Warrior] Chronologix [Ranger] Ziet The Dreaded [Necromancer] Zietlogic [Revenant]

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Posted by: Fluffball.8307

Fluffball.8307

Another issue is that it isn’t linked to anything, it just spawns, and very frequently for that matter.

There doesn’t feel like a reason to fight it, even though the fight is insanely easy.

Ya I was worried about that as well. I wonder what the bare minimum number of people you can kill it with. I assume you only get the bonus chest once per day? Maybe it will eventually spawn on a more orderly schedule like the other bosses.

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Posted by: maha.7902

maha.7902

If it’s anything like the arah p3 giants with fear, stomp, rock throw and triple stomp you can like, solo it in your sleep.

Serah Mahariel – Death and Taxes

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Posted by: Fluffball.8307

Fluffball.8307

Not in 20 minutes you’re not going to solo it.

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Posted by: sAdam.5876

sAdam.5876

I hope for more events in Dry Top, after story moves somewhere else (that mean next year). Now if we had Meta Event leading to Giant on top of Meta Event with Zephyryts it would be chaotic mess.

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Posted by: maha.7902

maha.7902

Not in 20 minutes you’re not going to solo it.

How do you know that? Open world events scale dependent on the number of people, and remember that in zergs it will be full of gs mesmers, bearbow rangers and zero dps cleric heal guardians. Now put one optimised berserker player, or even 5 (so the event doesn’t scale up) and I’m pretty sure if it’s like the arah giants they’ll blaze through it like its nothing.

Serah Mahariel – Death and Taxes

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Posted by: Fluffball.8307

Fluffball.8307

Because I tried to solo it in full ascended berserker with power infusions and I did not dent it. I’m not sure it scales up or down at all to be honest.

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Posted by: Filaha.1678

Filaha.1678

Warrior Rifle and Ranger Longbow (at least) allow you to max range AFK. You’re juuuuust out of reach of his roar.

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Posted by: Naevius.3185

Naevius.3185

Yeah, ranger longbow with the extended range trait takes no damage at all.

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Posted by: Blaeys.3102

Blaeys.3102

It seems to scale similar to the other world bosses – only with considerably more health – so it is extremely unlikely it is mathematically possible to solo it down in the time allotted. It feels along the same lines as Karka Queen or Tequatl in terms of health, just without the complexity.

To the OP’s original point, I agree that it is a well designed fight, even though it takes little to no strategic thinking to kill it. It is more about maximizing dps, practicing dodges, using condi clears/stability/etc.

That said, I think there are three things they can do to improve the fight -

1. tweak the scaling. Until you have 40 people, it feels really hard to even dent its health.

2. As others have mentioned, there needs to be some lore or reason for this giant to be here.

3. It needs to despawn at the end of the sandstorm (in fact, I think all of the sandstorm bosses should). If it even has 10% health, it takes forever to kill (especially with about half the people leaving to do other events), which, in turn, severely hinders the map’s attempts at T4/5 the next hour.

(edited by Blaeys.3102)

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Posted by: OtakuDFifty.2965

OtakuDFifty.2965

I consistently melee-range the Karka Queen as a full zerk Ele, and I always roll out of the way of its death roll and leaps, then laugh at all the downed people. Not sure why you can’t see its tells.

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Posted by: Fluffball.8307

Fluffball.8307

I consistently melee-range the Karka Queen as a full zerk Ele, and I always roll out of the way of its death roll and leaps, then laugh at all the downed people. Not sure why you can’t see its tells.

Because why bother? Almost all of the previous world bosses are done by everyone standing in a giant stack of 60 players afk ranging.

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Posted by: Lydell.8713

Lydell.8713

Not in 20 minutes you’re not going to solo it.

How do you know that? Open world events scale dependent on the number of people, and remember that in zergs it will be full of gs mesmers, bearbow rangers and zero dps cleric heal guardians. Now put one optimised berserker player, or even 5 (so the event doesn’t scale up) and I’m pretty sure if it’s like the arah giants they’ll blaze through it like its nothing.

For some reason, this one doesn’t seem to scale. First time I’ve seen it, I was with 5-6 people. We pounded on him for a good five minutes and only manage to get like 1% of its health before the storm ended. Second encounter, surrounded by 20+ people, he did go down. So, no, no way you’re gonna solo that one as it is right now.

-Blackgate-

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Posted by: Blanger.3162

Blanger.3162

Warrior Rifle and Ranger Longbow (at least) allow you to max range AFK. You’re juuuuust out of reach of his roar.

Yeah agreed, tried last night to melee him on my warrior with sword, he just beat me into the ground every couple minuets, switched to the rifle and stayed back far enough so his conditions only hit me a few times, even with 30-40 people it was slow going he has a ton of HP.

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Posted by: Wowlock.8176

Wowlock.8176

Warrior Rifle and Ranger Longbow (at least) allow you to max range AFK. You’re juuuuust out of reach of his roar.

Good thing I kept my rifle ! My only threat during the fight was getting crashed because of the framerate dropping like hot cakes. And not to mention the Skritt Queen fight… my god I didn’t even realize if I hit her or not.

So there.. more zerg where you barely know if you are doing anything other than getting a gold or silver medal in the end

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Posted by: Lothirieth.3408

Lothirieth.3408

No one wanted to fight him on my server.. not even several sandstorms later. :/

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Posted by: BrunoBRS.5178

BrunoBRS.5178

having finally stopped to play him, he… plays exactly like the giants in diessa and harathi. good tells, long fight.

LegendaryMythril/Zihark Darshell

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Posted by: Seth.1308

Seth.1308

Warrior Rifle and Ranger Longbow (at least) allow you to max range AFK. You’re juuuuust out of reach of his roar.

Yeah agreed, tried last night to melee him on my warrior with sword, he just beat me into the ground every couple minuets, switched to the rifle and stayed back far enough so his conditions only hit me a few times, even with 30-40 people it was slow going he has a ton of HP.

His attacks have such a easy to see telegraph, and are exactly the same as the Risen Giants out in Orr. He lifts his leg up, you evade. He hits fear, you clear conditions. The only thing you’re doing with a rifle is antagonizing that boulder smash attack and getting people killed.

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Posted by: Gaebriel.3754

Gaebriel.3754

Awesome to see a world boss that does Giants justice as being terrifying enemies, also extra mysterious that he only appears in sandstorms!

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Posted by: Ohoni.6057

Ohoni.6057

I agree with both the first two posts. The mechanics for the Giant are solid, but in the one time I did fight him (with a TON of other players) it took way too long. I got there at around 60% HP and it took almost ten minutes to wear down the remainder.

I think the ideal balance for a boss of that type is to have a pre-event that takes a few minutes and cannot be rushed, something that you don’t need to do but that gives fair warning and gives you something to do while you wait, like a fuse, and then once the fight proper starts it should be over in five minutes with a decent group, considerably less if you’re all alphadog ultra-builds or whatever. Basically the mechanics of the fight should not outlive their entertainment value, and no matter how much is going on, and no matter how life or death it is, the same mechanics can get dull after five minutes of repeating them.

“If you spent as much time working on [some task] as
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”

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Posted by: spoj.9672

spoj.9672

Never understood why they make the giants roar undodgeable/unblockable. I mean not every class has stunbreaks on a low enough cooldown.

Also if its true that he doesnt scale then that sucks major balls. I was looking forward to another giant i could solo. Its easy but kind of relaxing to solo giants. :P

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Posted by: Zackie.8923

Zackie.8923

except his stupid roar

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Posted by: narwhalsbend.7059

narwhalsbend.7059

except his stupid roar

The fear and torment roar is easy to avoid. With my greatsword I can stand just outside the range and afk if I wanted to, assuming he doesn’t move at all.

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Posted by: maha.7902

maha.7902

I asked guildies and apparently he has like 15 million HP even at the lowest scaling. But then one of them told me he was killing it with like… 25 other people and the collective DPS of the zerg was around 30k, so i’m sure a 5-man group of glass cannons outputting around 60k DPS together would be able to melt it pretty fast.

Serah Mahariel – Death and Taxes

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Posted by: Fluffball.8307

Fluffball.8307

You would be very very wrong if you think 5 people can “melt” it. When I killed it, it was pressed against a column and people were FGSing it, and it still took 12 minutes or so to kill.

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Posted by: maha.7902

maha.7902

And how many dead weights were around scaling the HP up?

Serah Mahariel – Death and Taxes

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Posted by: spoj.9672

spoj.9672

You would be very very wrong if you think 5 people can “melt” it. When I killed it, it was pressed against a column and people were FGSing it, and it still took 12 minutes or so to kill.

Other bosses scale at 20% base hp per player (not sure if Giant is the same). So even if people are FGSing, they may not be doing enough to make up for the 90% of people in clerics/nomad/sentinels at max range afking.

The equal scaling per player in open world is what causes elitism. If bosses scaled per player based on gear/damage output then people wouldnt care as much about gear and kill times would be a lot less mind numbingly boring. Id imagine this is quite complex to solve which is unfortunate.

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Posted by: Fafnir.5124

Fafnir.5124

If you want to stack him make sure you stack stability and might then you burn him in like 2 mins

Also pets like fire elementals don’t do reduced damage like you do to the boss they give a significant amount of extra damage

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Posted by: Fluffball.8307

Fluffball.8307

On the other hand, when I first encountered it, I tried to solo melee it in full ascended with power infusions and did not do anything to it for several minutes before realizing it wasn’t possible and stopping. I don’t think increasing my damage 5x would change anything. It is a legendary world boss after all, not some dungeon boss like Lupi.

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Posted by: spoj.9672

spoj.9672

Which just means it starts off scaled to 10-20 people. Which is kind of lame as its not a world boss its just a legendary.

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Posted by: Fluffball.8307

Fluffball.8307

It gives the (presumably) daily bonus chest. Are there any examples of open world legendaries that aren’t world bosses?

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Posted by: spoj.9672

spoj.9672

Well even lesser world bosses start off scaled to 1 player. Golem Mark II is just one example. Locking bosses to scale to a certain amount is stupid because it limits the availability of completing those bosses. Its ok on Wurm and Tequatl because they are huge and have complex mechanics. But for the others it just stops people from being able to complete an event just because of lack of players. If i can survive indefinately against the boss and complete all required mechanics then surely i should be able to complete it no matter how many players are there.

(edited by spoj.9672)

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Posted by: Fluffball.8307

Fluffball.8307

No one is going to do the giant if they don’t make it scale to that level or put it on the world boss schedule. I think the idea may have been to give people a giant to kill once an hour for the achievement track, but that’s inferior to the quest in Brisban, and an awful lot of work if you don’t at least get a bonus chest every hour.

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Posted by: spoj.9672

spoj.9672

What? More people would do it even when the maps dead if it started off scaled to 3 players like all other regular bosses in open world.

The only thing im saying is that it should start scaling from a lower amount of players. It makes no sense to be such a hp sponge right from the start. I said nothing about taking it off the boss schedule or removing the daily chest.

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Posted by: Fluffball.8307

Fluffball.8307

By “scale to that level” I meant scale to the level of the golem. No one other than guild groups are going to do the giant unless they fix the scaling or add it to the world bosss schedule.

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Posted by: spoj.9672

spoj.9672

By “scale to that level” I meant scale to the level of the golem. No one other than guild groups are going to do the giant unless they fix the scaling or add it to the world bosss schedule.

Huh? Anyone can do it at the moment. The only requirement is having a decent number of people. Even when the map becomes quieter people will still have no problem doing it. Unless their really isnt enough people there. But that has nothing to do with boss schedule or guild groups so Im struggling to understand what you are getting at.

If you are saying you agree with me that it should start scaling at a lower number of players, then just say that. o_o

(edited by spoj.9672)

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Posted by: Fluffball.8307

Fluffball.8307

I’m saying I think it scale to the level of the golem OR spawn 4 times a day (or whatever it is the other world bosses do.) No one will know when to go to the giant because it spawns 24 times a day. The likelihood of 20 people just randomly showing up seems about nil, since even with the map highly populated right now 20 people aren’t showing up. Thus only organized guild groups will be able to complete it.

I would be 100% ok with it spawning 24 times a day if it had like 100,000 health. That would be a really fun way to nonchalantly work on the giant title.

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Posted by: fishball.7204

fishball.7204

Had like 60+ with a semi organized T5 overflow and still took almost 10 minutes to down it, waste of time for the limited loot involved. People are already starting to do the other events instead for more Geodes.

Not bad mechanics sure, but way too much HP. Tweak the HP and it’ll be awesome.

FOR THE GREEEEEEEEEEEEN

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Posted by: maha.7902

maha.7902

I’m saying I think it scale to the level of the golem OR spawn 4 times a day (or whatever it is the other world bosses do.) No one will know when to go to the giant because it spawns 24 times a day. The likelihood of 20 people just randomly showing up seems about nil, since even with the map highly populated right now 20 people aren’t showing up. Thus only organized guild groups will be able to complete it.

I would be 100% ok with it spawning 24 times a day if it had like 100,000 health. That would be a really fun way to nonchalantly work on the giant title.

You want a legendary that dies in about 12 seconds to one player?

Serah Mahariel – Death and Taxes

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Posted by: Fluffball.8307

Fluffball.8307

One that is scalable. Like has been brought up, the golem and FE are both soloable. I don’t know what the health pools are, but you get the idea.

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Posted by: Orpheal.8263

Orpheal.8263

That giant is the same lame boring junk design, like all the other giants in the game, with the only different, that this giant a far mor of a stupid damage sponge, that its a silly DPS race against the sandstorm timer cause of the giant instantly disappearign magically when the sandstorm stuff ends what is absolutely weird and shouldn’t happen at all.
Creatures like such a giant shouldn’t just instantly disappear, only because a sandstorm ended. It would be understandable, if the giant appears, when theres no sandstorm and that the giant would become invulnerable when the sandstorm appears and disappears then in the sandstorm where players become unable to see, where the giant is fleeing to under the protection of the sandstorm.

That giant is absolutely unworthy of being a world boss.
that giant should just get nerfed to a normal champion together with adding alot of normal, veteran and elite giants appearign in that part of map, so that we get finally a map, where players can actually effectively farm giants for the giant slayer achievement, because just adding only that lame legendary giant in the map, won’t improve anything about that stupid situation, that the game is now lacking since nearly 2 years about a good spot to kill effectively giants cause of the whole game having nearly no place currently, where giants exist…

I just hope, in the next or overnext part of the current season will introduce a new huge dragon general world boss under the mordremoth theme, that is basically the counterpart to Jormag’s Claw, the Shatterer and Tequatl

Personally I like the idea behind sub classes ~ quoted from Chris Whiteside

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Posted by: JohnLShannonhouse.1820

JohnLShannonhouse.1820

I consistently melee-range the Karka Queen as a full zerk Ele, and I always roll out of the way of its death roll and leaps, then laugh at all the downed people. Not sure why you can’t see its tells.

It depends on your graphics card and your connection.

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Posted by: Smooth Penguin.5294

Smooth Penguin.5294

I for one am glad for this new boss, as giants are a pain to kill by yourself. Now I just need to kill him 990 more times to max my achievement.

In GW2, Trading Post plays you!

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Posted by: Fluffball.8307

Fluffball.8307

I for one am glad for this new boss, as giants are a pain to kill by yourself. Now I just need to kill him 990 more times to max my achievement.

If you get off your lazy butt, that’s only 42 straight days of giant slaying.

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Posted by: Smooth Penguin.5294

Smooth Penguin.5294

I for one am glad for this new boss, as giants are a pain to kill by yourself. Now I just need to kill him 990 more times to max my achievement.

If you get off your lazy butt, that’s only 42 straight days of giant slaying.

At a rate of 1 spawn per hour, I’d have to give up sleep for most of those 42 days, and pull 24/7 slaying runs.

Sounds reasonable.

In GW2, Trading Post plays you!

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Posted by: Fluffball.8307

Fluffball.8307

Not most of those days, all of those days. It takes 90 minutes to enter REM sleep IIRC, so you would die. But you would have the Giant Slayer achievement points.