Guild Wars 2

Really, the stupid decision here was to have an individual memorial for Eir rather than a mass memorial service for “all of our fallen friends” or something like that.

I chopped down a tree in his honor.

anninke.7469:

JaddynnStarr.5201:

anninke.7469:

JaddynnStarr.5201:

/snip

As i have said before (maybe in another thread), have a monument for them all, but we dont need an individual monument for every single character we have lost, it is immersion breaking and slows down the story too much.

edit: at least Eir didnt take over the entire story… as your attachment has proven trehearne did.

That’s why I said “a simple dialog line…”.
Just giving some in-story reason instead of the reddit post might have been okay.

Hm, maybe he did take over. I kinda didn’t notice (or mind) though, because I went with Vigil on my first/main charachter and I disliked Forgal quite a lot. The guy seriously creeps me out even now.

(And hey, thanks for actually talking about this with me )

(no problem, its nice to have a discussion instead of a flame fest! )

No I must have missed that in your post, my apologies, as that would be just fine too. My focus was on the thread title, and all the eir hating that i was seeing. I don’t particularly like Eir that much, or braham if truth be told, but trehearne was a different matter entirely for me personally. he felt very intrusive and forced onto me, and then to have him be a leader in name only (as he couldn’t make a decision to save his own life) made me feel he was a coward that i had to tolerate as a commander above me. I agree with you on Forgul, he felt very empty as a character and felt more like a placeholder.

“Couldn’t make a decision”? Oh, c’mon, now I’m getting flamy!
While the PC goes kill this, bring that, do you think the fort just grew by itself, all the machinery, troops and provisions needed no organization? That the plans you got to choose from just popped into existence on their own? That anyone just somehow knew what to do and when with no one coordinating them?
Mordy’s blight! Trahearne is effectively the PC’s undervalued office assistant.
(Am I perhaps biased because of working as an office lady? )

lol ok, flame if you must! yes there is a lot behind the story that is involved in leadership but consider that the vigil, whisperers, and priory and any other race already has generals in place to command their forces and resources. basically what trehearne is tenamount to is a U.N. strike force commander he helps facilitate communications between nations etc etc…

To me that’s like saying we will use 90% of Americas forces to ground and air combat a war, and call the victory for the U.N. yes the U.N. probly helped coordinate and centralize things, but they are by no means the cause of victory. troops of whatever country you send in are the victors, as are their respective commanders. they fought the fight and implemented all the strategy and resources.

to chrono: maybe that’s why we see such a lopsided view of trehearne to begin with. he is present in the sylvari line only. your first time thru a story probly had no mention of Snaff(unless you were playing the asuran line). so the remaining 90% of the community not familiar with that person is not gonna be as close to him(trhearne) as someone who starts out as a sylvari on their first toon, or likeley multiple play throughs. Eir is present from near the beginning of every races story (in the form of Destinys edge) and even with only a small introduction, has been able to fit into the story line with out it becoming the focus. she is only focused in it now, at this particular single moment, as she has died, and will no longer feature in the story. Trehearnes run spanned the entire secondary story… is that not worth anything?

JaddynnStarr.5201:

lol ok, flame if you must! yes there is a lot behind the story that is involved in leadership but consider that the vigil, whisperers, and priory and any other race already has generals in place to command their forces and resources. basically what trehearne is tenamount to is a U.N. strike force commander he helps facilitate communications between nations etc etc…

To me that’s like saying we will use 90% of Americas forces to ground and air combat a war, and call the victory for the U.N. yes the U.N. probly helped coordinate and centralize things, but they are by no means the cause of victory. troops of whatever country you send in are the victors, as are their respective commanders. they fought the fight and implemented all the strategy and resources.

But here you don’t have 90 % of one force, it’s more like equal thirds at the beginning at least, so the cooperation takes far more effort to actually work. Had there be 90 % Vigil forces, then Almorra would become leader and even a possibility of anyone else wouldn’t as much as cross her mind. And others would probably agree, although not happily.

And (beware, BIG THOUGHT coming…) if Trahearne were a strong, self-reliant leader or the Pact had someone else in that position, there would be no need of you, the second in command, the Pact Commander. You’re there to compensate for Trahearnes shorcomings. I dare say he does not show his doubts to anyone but the PC, so he’s probably not considered a weak leader by a majority of the Pact.

Let’s say Trahearne and the PC are much like Frodo and Sam (without it being clear which is which… hope it’s understandable, I’m not sure how to write it quite right). They need one another to get the job done. Or at least Trahearne needs you, which is definitely better than the other way around

Aveneo.2068:

We already buried him in our guild hall.

Now THAT is awesome. Beautiful memorial!

It would be nice if a small shrine of Trahearne will grow somewhere in the grove. A small alcove with a living tree stump or a shrub that looks like the torso of him.

Silmar Alech.4305:

It would be nice if a small shrine of Trahearne will grow somewhere in the grove. A small alcove with a living tree stump or a shrub that looks like the torso of him.

Or in your home instance, so that it’s not a spoiler confusing newer players.

anninke.7469:

JaddynnStarr.5201:

lol ok, flame if you must! yes there is a lot behind the story that is involved in leadership but consider that the vigil, whisperers, and priory and any other race already has generals in place to command their forces and resources. basically what trehearne is tenamount to is a U.N. strike force commander he helps facilitate communications between nations etc etc…

To me that’s like saying we will use 90% of Americas forces to ground and air combat a war, and call the victory for the U.N. yes the U.N. probly helped coordinate and centralize things, but they are by no means the cause of victory. troops of whatever country you send in are the victors, as are their respective commanders. they fought the fight and implemented all the strategy and resources.

But here you don’t have 90 % of one force, it’s more like equal thirds at the beginning at least, so the cooperation takes far more effort to actually work. Had there be 90 % Vigil forces, then Almorra would become leader and even a possibility of anyone else wouldn’t as much as cross her mind. And others would probably agree, although not happily.

And (beware, BIG THOUGHT coming…) if Trahearne were a strong, self-reliant leader or the Pact had someone else in that position, there would be no need of you, the second in command, the Pact Commander. You’re there to compensate for Trahearnes shorcomings. I dare say he does not show his doubts to anyone but the PC, so he’s probably not considered a weak leader by a majority of the Pact.

Let’s say Trahearne and the PC are much like Frodo and Sam (without it being clear which is which… hope it’s understandable, I’m not sure how to write it quite right). They need one another to get the job done. Or at least Trahearne needs you, which is definitely better than the other way around

Whether its equal thirds or 90% of one, the principle is no different. Sylvari made up less then 20% of the pact force, and even less after mordy decided to make it real.(i know the mordy thing had little impact as it was after the fact, but still…) I also disagree with having to make up for trehearnes shortcommings. It is not my responsibility to babysit a superior officer. not even third world countries would tolerate that.

I also think it wrong that trehearne being a strong leader would negate our need. quite the opposite is true, as said before, he is stuck in the office and still needs people to do important missions that he cannot do. the matter under discussion is respect at this point.

I do understand what you are trying to say about sam and frodo, but there is one component seriously lacking in that department… the fact those two loved each other as friends before they were burdened with the great journey. They werent forced on each other as strangers.

JaddynnStarr.5201:

Whether its equal thirds or 90% of one, the principle is no different. Sylvari made up less then 20% of the pact force, and even less after mordy decided to make it real.(i know the mordy thing had little impact as it was after the fact, but still…) I also disagree with having to make up for trehearnes shortcommings. It is not my responsibility to babysit a superior officer. not even third world countries would tolerate that.

I also think it wrong that trehearne being a strong leader would negate our need. quite the opposite is true, as said before, he is stuck in the office and still needs people to do important missions that he cannot do. the matter under discussion is respect at this point.

I do understand what you are trying to say about sam and frodo, but there is one component seriously lacking in that department… the fact those two loved each other as friends before they were burdened with the great journey. They werent forced on each other as strangers.

I don’t see being a Sylvari of any importance, the Pact was formed by the three multiracial Orders, that’s why I went with “thirds”.

A strong leader, Trahearne or whoever, would sure need to send you on missions, but wouldn’t need you at the Pact Commander position. No second in command would be necessary. You’re only there, because T feels he need’s you there. (Is it bad writing? Yep. But it is canonically given too.) So you’d most likely remain a “regular if admired” warmaster/lightbringer/magister under your respective Order head.

Then there’s an issue of how each of us actually sees Trahearne, I don’t really see him as weak. Having doubts? Yes. But not weak. Why do you think he is? Where and how does it show? (If you clear it up to me it might stop me from bombarding you with unending blabbering…)

To the last paragraph. I believe you were supposed to become friends with T before the Pact’s founding, but it didn’t come across well. Cough… writing… cough… Probably the same way you were probably supposed to become friends with Eir. Cough… The only difference is that with T you had a lot more time to do so.

The only importance sylvari factors in, is that it is the weakest army of the races. made even less so when 2/3 of its forces suddenly swap sides. and the formation of the pact is prophecied by its leader, who also is under the influence of mordy.

I perceive trehearne as being weak by his inability to make decisions, his inability to fight his own fights, his inability to secure his own wyld hunt, his constant doomsaying, his inexperience in leading a multi national force, and while this may not have any real storyline consequences, his inability to move thru a story mission without me having to run back to either retrive him from some twig he is stuck on in the terrain, or rez him from a branch breaking his toe…. Its not just from a storyline perspective, its the overall problems in general that add to it.

yea it was alot of poor writing, but thats my point, and thats why alot of people dont like him, including myself. I dont knock people who do like him, everyones entitled to what they like or dislike, but when we have a community that largely finds him un popular, you gotta accept that people arent gonna cry over spilled milk with him. As it takes alot of resources to make these cutscenes and animations and story sidelines, its just not prudent for anet to invest alot of time into a character that is not going to give any positive return to the situation, or further the story line. As I have said before, Eir gets a pass as she has not been interjected into the story like T has. Also she has back story and ties with braham who has featured along side us just as long as T has, just in a more, less impossing and forced manner.

You mean the decisions left for the PC? Aren’t those to make the player feel they get to decide something as oposed to “I decided we need to do this and that, so go” a strong leader would say? Or is it in the wording and presenting those choices? No NPC fights their own fights in this game. If they would, players would have nothing to do.

LOL, does he really get stuck on terrain? I’ve never noticed! I have to go and see… Poor guy
But the rez-need is for all of them big badkitten heroes. It’s the exact reason why I can’t think of Eir as highly as she probably deserves. HotW dungeon (not only). She still down instead of helping. Is she a friggin’ hero or a cleaning lady?

I’m still green in GW2, so the (probably) relevant time were long before me playing, but was it really such a big part of community? Because, from what I see on this forum in general, it’s not about numbers but more about being vocal and obstinate enough. And people are vocal usually only when they don’t like something, so the part of community that was okay with him or didn’t care might have remained quiet and is thus omitted from your counting. And may come out now, when they feel annoyed. There’s also the part who would mind literally anyone else than the PC in the leading position, because “I’m the hero so why do I have to obey someone else?” mindset. It could then mean that Eir is not liked better. She is just not cared about by the majority.
Oh my, now I’ve made myself feel sorry for her… She probably sits in the backstage bar with Trahearne, both drinking like the world’s about to end just to wash away the pain

I would rather not have a reminder that the character existed.

He was one of the most disliked characters in the game, only barely beaten by Scarlet.

Trahearne is not disliked by me. It’s a pity that he’s dead, but he died a honorable death while fighting an elder dragon. He should be honored. If there is someone from the old NPCs who I don’t think has honor, then it’s Logan Thackeray. I would not mind if this character dies. Trahearne has accomplished something good, Logan Thackeray not. In fact, I don’t know what Logan Thackeray actually does besides groveling before Queen Jenna.

Yea, anninke, as i mentioned earlier poor writing on Anets part is to blame here, I dont think they thought it through tbh, maybe they did and im just not seeing eye to eye with them on it, i dunno. But i think the scenario came down to this. They had 2 choices to invest in. Giving a good send off to T and cheapening the advancement of the plot, or advancing the story by continuing with E. There are just so many what ifs and maybe this way… that i think they just grabbed what sounded best at the time and ran with it. In the end, only Anet knows why they did what they did, all im sayin is I can see a pathway why. I did mention I felt it would be ok to do a memorial as long as it didnt take away from the resources invested in the LS3 content.

tobascodagama.2961:

Really, the stupid decision here was to have an individual memorial for Eir rather than a mass memorial service for “all of our fallen friends” or something like that.

^Seriously, this. As a non-norn, I was fairly apathetic to all of the NPCs and interactions at Eir’s memorial (except for Garm. Poor doggy)

Many Pact soldiers lost their lives to the Mordrem ambush, including its very own leader. The entire organization is completely shaken to its core. As its former second-in-command, we really should’ve been attending to that whole debacle in the form of a mass memorial that addressed the death of one of the game’s most significant NPCs. This could’ve easily included a dedication to Eir, since she partook in the Pact initiative of killing Zhaitan.

Extremely surprised/disappointed Anet didn’t think of that

citypigeon.6358:

tobascodagama.2961:

Really, the stupid decision here was to have an individual memorial for Eir rather than a mass memorial service for “all of our fallen friends” or something like that.

^Seriously, this. As a non-norn, I was fairly apathetic to all of the NPCs and interactions at Eir’s memorial (except for Garm. Poor doggy)

Many Pact soldiers lost their lives to the Mordrem ambush, including its very own leader. The entire organization is completely shaken to its core. As its former second-in-command, we really should’ve been attending to that whole debacle in the form of a mass memorial that addressed the death of one of the game’s most significant NPCs. This could’ve easily included a dedication to Eir, since she partook in the Pact initiative of killing Zhaitan.

Extremely surprised/disappointed Anet didn’t think of that

Yep. And it would have made much more sense than having to love and miss Eir so much out of the blue.

citypigeon.6358:

-snip-

^Seriously, this. As a non-norn, I was fairly apathetic to all of the NPCs and interactions at Eir’s memorial (except for Garm. Poor doggy)

Many Pact soldiers lost their lives to the Mordrem ambush, including its very own leader. The entire organization is completely shaken to its core. As its former second-in-command, we really should’ve been attending to that whole debacle in the form of a mass memorial that addressed the death of one of the game’s most significant NPCs. This could’ve easily included a dedication to Eir, since she partook in the Pact initiative of killing Zhaitan.

Extremely surprised/disappointed Anet didn’t think of that

See, while I think a mass memorial would be more practical, it was Braham who organised Eir’s personal memorial. Not really knowing the character very well, my impression is that, even if Eir had an honourable mention at a mass memorial, he wouldn’t be content with that. Granted however, if he had a personal wake for her afterwards, that could have been referred to in dialogue, without the PC having to make an appearance.

I think the best we can realistically hope for is the aforementioned grave in Dreamer’s Terrace and/or to be able to visit the Pale Tree in the Amphalos Chamber instance, and speak to her about Trahearne. In a manner similar to, but hopefully more in-depth than, telling her about Scarlet’s death. Via text-dialogue if need be, since voiced cut-scenes will demand more resources that Anet may have already committed elsewhere.

I didn’t think Sylvari die… I thought they were just brought back to the dream… so maybe he will be reborn.

I don’t know if anyone else tried it, but after Eir’s memorial, since I too felt that there should have been some form of conclusion to Trahearne’s death, I went to The Groove to visit the Pale Tree:
“Maybe she is feeling a bit better and will have some spare lines to say” I though, “or maybe the NPCs will have something to say in her stead, to mourn not only the Pale Tree’s state but the death of a firstborn” I continued.
I entered the instance, everything was like nothing was going on:
Sylvari talking about Ventari’s tablets, the one who got injuried and was recovering, the guards told me they were happy to see me because they were bored and, in the meanwhile, the Pale Tree’s avatar was lying on the ground, faintly breathing.
Now, that’s quite immersion breaking.

Demon of the Light.7961:

I don’t know if anyone else tried it, but after Eir’s memorial, since I too felt that there should have been some form of conclusion to Trahearne’s death, I went to The Groove to visit the Pale Tree:
“Maybe she is feeling a bit better and will have some spare lines to say” I though, “or maybe the NPCs will have something to say in her stead, to mourn not only the Pale Tree’s state but the death of a firstborn” I continued.
I entered the instance, everything was like nothing was going on:
Sylvari talking about Ventari’s tablets, the one who got injuried and was recovering, the guards told me they were happy to see me because they were bored and, in the meanwhile, the Pale Tree’s avatar was lying on the ground, faintly breathing.
Now, that’s quite immersion breaking.

I did this, too. It was really off-putting. The Pale Tree just lost her eldest son, the first of the firstborn, the one she gave Caladbolg and the most difficult Wyld Hunt to, and.. nothing?

I agree that having nothing at all really annoyed me. Even if I didn’t like Trahearne as much as I do, it would at least make SENSE to have more people than Taimi react to it (and Almorra…). I went to the Grove too and was disappointed to find absolutely nothing. Considering how much Riannoc was mourned, and Trahearne’s importance for cleansing Orr, it’s really strange to only hear about it from Taimi, who barely even knew him.

I’d like an option where we could choose to add memorials for the characters we want to honor in our home instance. That way everyone can choose for themselves, Eir, or Trahearne, or both. Or our mentor, as has been mentioned.