Guild Wars 2

(Note: I have not read this thread)

A question to those who agree with the OP (and the OP himself of course):

Would it have been better if there was more action for your own character to do – like if we had to fight our way into the center of the Inquest base before using the memory seed and getting the flashback?

Out of curiosity.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

(Note: I have not read this thread)

A question to those who agree with the OP (and the OP himself of course):

Would it have been better if there was more action for your own character to do – like if we had to fight our way into the center of the Inquest base before using the memory seed and getting the flashback?

Out of curiosity.

Yes. The challenge, in my opinion, should have been to reach the places where the memory seeds needed to be planted. Once there, and with the seed planted, the relevant knowledge of what happened in that location should have been presented in the form of a brief (and skippable, for the achievement repeats) flashback cutscene.

I think it would have been interesting if we’d encountered the ghosts of the centaurs in the present, and, in the process of reaching the appropriate spot to plant the seed, perhaps have been presented with the option to somehow put them to rest.

I also think it might have been cool if one of the secondborn who’d met the asura had accompanied our character(s) instead of Marjory, who seemed out of place. Perhaps this hypothetical secondborn’s memories of the event might have been unclear, and this would have offered some form of resolution/closure.

One more thing: it would have been (again, in my opinion) exceptionally cool if, when meeting the asura, we’d seen our old buddy Phlunt arguing for the immediate release of the sylvari. Just to give the poor guy a little extra depth.

One thing this episode confirmed for me. Even though I have a thief at 80, I have no desire to play this profession. My thief is doomed to remain in Divinity’s Reach at the Leathercrafting station forevermore.

I understand Caithe’s skills are unique, but even so. I don’t like the way the profession handles and even with her OPness I was just button-mashing my way through it to get through. I’d prefer playing my ranger for real, thanks.

OtakuModeEngage.8679:

No, It doesn’t give you the illusion that you are controlling the past…

Its like an officer cadet ….

When I say the illusion I can control the past, I’m referring to the fact that I can make caithe go over here, I can make her talk to this half-horse over there, I could die as her. It’s essentially “here’s your character, reskinned and re-skilled, in the past doing stuff,” except if I lose it’s not witty enough to pop up a death screen that says “Time Paradox.”

Now, I do understand what you are saying about learning from past events, really I do – but the fact that I haven’t really learned anything new from Caithe’s actions would be similar to me playing Call of Duty and claiming I understand everything about how to go to war with real weapons and real lives on the line. I’m sure it’s not the same for everyone, but for me this is all stuff I already (not as specific, surely) knew about Caith from PS/Dungeon play.

OtakuModeEngage.8679:

I personally remember coming out of the last boss fight on Episode 4…
If however, you take a step back and look at it from the perspective of your character…

I honestly have no idea who Wooden Potatoes is. I used to peruse the forums a lot back when the game was new (ie. Before the shift to large-scale full-map required content started happening back around Scarlet’s introduction), but after I got fed up with the trend of ditching feasible solo play unless you were a grandmaster at the game (which I totally am not) I puttered out of the forums (and after the erection of the Toxic Tower, I actually didn’t play the game much until Part 2 of Season 2 came out with new armor designs to draw me in (and then make fun of me by requiring grind on some of the parts). All my reactions towards Caithe are entirely based upon dungeon and PS advancement (up to and including Arah). My main aversion to Caithe was that it sounded like her history was made up of worse romance story content than Loghan (and I don’t really care much for the romance stuff. Can it be done well? Sure, but if my goal was romance I’d go play that game about pigeons, you know? :P)

That being said, the reason I’m shocked about her coming along is that it’s distinctly suspicious behavior. As much as my character should trust her with her shady relations to a character that turned evil (Faolin), she should expect me (after all my character has done) to be capable of his own secret mission without resorting to tagging along (or downright stalking if you chose the “leave me alone” options). Yes, I know it’s needed to progress the story, but I still feel it would have been better for you to finish that boss fight, check on the Master, have Caithe show up and pull her “I’m sorry” theft. For one, it would be more surprising to have happen that way (instead of throwing in her being annoying about it, or laying breadcrumbs about her actions to come) and on top of that for someone who (from us playing as her) is essentially a super-thief class character would make more sense. Also, that’s just bad game on her part to abandon the rest of Destiny’s Edge like that after we (the PCs) put so much effort in (iirc, it’s been a while since i’ve done that start of the story paths) on her behalf to get the gang back together as heroes. It’s not the “Caithe maybe a traitor” that’s in issue – it’s how it was handled.

OtakuModeEngage.8679:

True, there are other ways, …

There’s been a few suggestions as to ways around it suggested in this thread, including by myself. They may not be the most fleshed out ideas, or the best ideas, but they exist. Also, I wouldn’t put it past ANet to write in an Asura who made a machine that would send us back in time as plants to be bodyguards of Caithe – meaning she would never know it was even us the entire time. I’m not saying it would make more sense or even be a decent way of handling the story – I’m just saying that there is more than one option that could have been done, regardless of if the one we currently have is the “better” (which is always subjective, considering how even the two of us can be here debating it really, isn’t it?) way.

I understand some people really like Caithe, and they really enjoyed playing her. Mechanically, I enjoyed it as well – but I’m not as fond of Caithe as others, and I don’t look forward to when I eventually need to jump bodies into Rytlock to learn where he’s been since his disappearance (which I missed in the story anyways), Zoja, Eir, Loghan, any of the mini-Edge, or Necro-with-a-greatsword big T and having it displayed that “you should be having fun playing as these characters because they are better than you / more important than you / have more history than you” or various other reasons. I like to build my own characters “legend” (so to speak) with his own two hands – even if it’s just by holding a tether on a dragons leg so that D.E.’s can beat it to a pulp with supermoves and legendary gear.

This isn’t to elaborate on the fact that if you play as a pla- excuse me, Sylvari, character who’s been being helped by Caithe since the very beginning of the game – your character doesn’t feel/get anything extra about this proposed betrayal. It’s the exact same as a human or norn would get – and they didn’t know her until they found out they should get D.E. back together again. Understandably, personalizing it to that extent would require more work and time and all that jazz, but they really missed an opportunity there to make it feel as though the story had more impact (my alt is actually a Sylvari Thief, so yeah… I don’t hate the Sylv’s or anything).

Man, we are just writing books back and forth aren’t we? I remember why I like forums now

tldr - 8 level 80s, 8 identical playthroughs = *zzz*

Pixelpumpkin.4608:

ONE player out of 1-5 party members is turned into Caithe… the others are not. Still not ideal for players who don’t want Caithe’s OP skills AND insist on soloing everything, but, like, I’m saying, you DO have options. What is more important to you? Your own skill bar, or being the instance owner?

So roll a dice and decide who gets to be the sacrificial lamb?

I enjoyed playing as Caithe with her new skills. It was a refreshing change of pace from my usual characters that I play as.

I liked that I had a plethora of new skills to learn and strategize, and I actually had to think out the best way to use Caithe, instead of running in with my usual builds and killing enemies the same way I’ve been killing them for years.

Gaile Gray.6029:

It’s really interesting to read the various thoughts on the story and the role that we, as players, played in the update. We’ve highlighted this thread (and a few others) so that the developers can see the various opinions about the Living World updates.

I sure hope you devs have a thick skin when it comes to the forums. It seems like no matter what you guys do, there will be people complaining about it.

Gaile Gray.6029:

It’s really interesting to read the various thoughts on the story and the role that we, as players, played in the update. We’ve highlighted this thread (and a few others) so that the developers can see the various opinions about the Living World updates.

Just want to say I enjoyed playing a different character with unique skills. It’s refreshing and a nice change of pace from the same old ‘get in the instance and bash some baddies with the skills you’ve had for 2 years and a half’.

I also liked the personal stories with Caladbolg and the Avatar of Balthazar when I first played them. I guess I’m not one of those players that gets anxious whenever I get new skills to play with.

I’m liking all the different gameplay and boss mechanics you guys have been throwing at us (like in Glint’s lair) so far. It looks like in this episode you guys even toned down the boss’ hp bar compared to other release, which was my only complaint in previous releases. Take the nitpicking with a grain of salt and keep up the good work.

Gaile Gray.6029:

It’s really interesting to read the various thoughts on the story and the role that we, as players, played in the update. We’ve highlighted this thread (and a few others) so that the developers can see the various opinions about the Living World updates.

I’m an avid, long-time, beta’d both games player.

I hate being forced to play another, NPC character.

Caithe is your character, not mine. She is background, and not part of “my story.”

I do not like being forced to use someone else’s skill set or equipment. I want to play my characters in my story, period.

This latest “episode” really put me off the living story. It’s not my character’s story, it’s Caithe’s story now.

I disliked playing through the Inquest base. It wasn’t until talking to my sister about it that I realized that my instance was probably bugged as I was constantly being detected no matter where I was (and as an expert at stealth games, I know it wasn’t a L2P issue).

I’m going to play through it again to see if my experience is different, but until then I’m giving Caithe a 1/10.

I really liked playing as Caithe. The abilities were enjoyable and satisfying to use and since GW2 has so little abilities anyway it’s great to have some variety.
I’d be more than thrilled to hear that we had more of those in the future, provided they are few and far between.

Really can’t understand all that negativity. It’s not like you are forced to completely abandon your character in favor of another. The episodes is around 40 minutes out of hundreds on your regular character.

As I see it most complaints are made because people can’t handle a new set of ablities, which in my opinion is a l2p issue instead of a genuine ‘I don’t like the way the story is told’ perspective.

I personally enjoyed playing both of the instances with the new skillset. Even on my alt that couldn’t get the achievement I made sure I did the whole thing in full stealth when I reached the Asuran lab :P The cutscenes in these episodes were also nicely done with some nice camera angles. It almost felt like a singleplayer RPG and I don’t mind having one story that has me playing as another character. It takes only a few minutes to just read the skills and test them out but perhaps because many people rush into it they got frustrated?

The way the visions were told were pretty good overall in my opinion and I liked learning more about the Sylvari in the Grove. There is one thing that seems to have been overlooked though and that’s a reset mote for the achievements at the centaur boss, it would probably help alot of people if they wouldn’t have to rerun the entire instance to try again.

Crovax.7854:

I really liked playing as Caithe. The abilities were enjoyable and satisfying to use and since GW2 has so little abilities anyway it’s great to have some variety.
I’d be more than thrilled to hear that we had more of those in the future, provided they are few and far between.

Really can’t understand all that negativity. It’s not like you are forced to completely abandon your character in favor of another. The episodes is around 40 minutes out of hundreds on your regular character.

As I see it most complaints are made because people can’t handle a new set of ablities, which in my opinion is a l2p issue instead of a genuine ‘I don’t like the way the story is told’ perspective.

Not winning any hearts in minds by insulting the players, first of all.

Considering I have all classes at 80, it’s not the “scary wary nuveau abilities” that bug me about using Caithe. I know how to stop and read text. I know how to test abilities on weaker mobs before getting thrown into the fire. I did just fine in navigating her in combat.

What Caithe’s set does is turn my gameplay into a gimmick. Again. Because this isn’t the first time. (See also Ghost Busters dungeon path and Saladbolg) And, let’s be honest, she’s a dumbed down version of a thief that borders on a power trip, except that her skills weren’t even well selected. …Scorpion Wire? Really? So, mechanically, she’s a horrid Mary Sue that gets dev-love in the form of an OP skill set that would never get past a balance team.
Did it feel good to be an NPE version of baby’s first Thief? Li’l bit. Especially since all her dodging-attack abilities made the combat feel more active. …but less accurate. That forward dash, yo.

But, because she’s in a story, that doesn’t matter much. Except the story wasn’t worth playing as Caithe. Play as her bodyguard, one of Faolin’s cronies, and let us have our characters. Moreover, we didn’t need agency in someone else’s flashback, especially when such face-desking choices were made. Many of us felt bad because Caithe floats along as Faolin’s mindless doll. But we’re supposed to be so squishy-joy with her about her awesome skill set to justify genocide for the sake of a tepid, unbelievable love-interest?

A: Nope.

I think the naysayers just like their comfort zones a little too much.

I personally enjoyed the new skillset, it was well balanced, though it could use some weapon swap into a ranged option for the achievements.

And no, complaining about parts of the update doesn’t stop me from appreciating the parts well done.

One thing I don’t understand about what I learned of Caithe’s memories. Why did she just stand around dancing for almost an hour somewhere up a cliff while centaurs were patrolling around Faolain’s trampled corpse?

zwierz.9012:

I think the naysayers just like their comfort zones a little too much.

It’s a GAME.

Games are for relaxation. Yes, they are a comfort zone.

I live a moderately stressful life filled with real, concrete, meaningful challenges.

I do not need or want a game to challenge my “comfort zone.”

And what we have really learned from this thread?
Everyone has their opinions and some are more vehement about it then others.

My opinion?
I like playing as Caithe. It was a nice change. It’s not like they make you play an NPC all the time and you /never/ get to play as your character in the rest of the game or anything.
If it was something they did all the time, then yeah, I could see the internet-hate being justified (for a change…)
As it is, it’s just something else for people that are looking for things to be righteously indignant about.

Tachenon.5270:

After writing and deleting a vitriolic rant that was not in the least constructive, but boy howdy did it make me feel better, I’ll just say I don’t want to play Caithe or any other NPC in this game, ever again.

I’ve got my own characters, thanks. Level 80 and geared up and built to my own specifications. If you want me to know what Caithe did in the past, please just show me a cutscene.

Thanks.

Seriously dude? A cut scene ruins the immersion of experience the memories of an important character first-hand. I freaking loved it, it was a great change of pace from every other kitten story mission we’ve ever done.

I also really disliked playing as Caithe for the centaur fight. Having all my entire build thrown out the window and tossed into a melee-only fighting style that I strongly dislike (I prefer to swap between melee and ranged weapons) was really annoying. Yes, Caithe’s skills are super OP with high damage, reflects, constant dodges, and low CD. I am also apparently one of the minority that also loves Caithe as an NPC. I still didn’t like playing as her.

The Asuran lab was fun because the stealth puzzle was intriguing and challenging and you could avoid combat entirely.

Sigh. The more I think about it the more I just can’t understand how somehow could go on a long vitriolic rant about the most creative mission design we’ve seen from Arenanet in a long time. Seriously if you enjoy the story enough to be playing the new content, you should enjoy discovering more about the most important characters to the story. And cut scenes don’t hold a candle to actual gameplay. I don’t get why it has to be any more difficult than that.

Ausfer.1853:

I sure hope you devs have a thick skin when it comes to the forums. It seems like no matter what you guys do, there will be people complaining about it.

Anyone who gets creative works seen by a large audience has to have a thick skin. It’s pretty much a requirement for the profession.

The hardest part is separating the good advice from pure angry opinion. Mainly cause angry opinion sometimes has good advice within it.

i enjoyed to play this part as young caithe personnaly, the only problem here was that i was a thief with a condi build and i think the skill bar for caithe isn’t meant for condi stat, i tried with a berserker thief, and this was better, reaaaaly better.
Also who is the saiyen with us when we play the instance with a friend? XD

zwierz.9012:

I think the naysayers just like their comfort zones a little too much.

And I think that you are making a blanket statement that doesn’t apply to every naysayer. We all think things, because we are human of course. The reasons I dislike this entry in the LS is not because comfort zone – the quests weren’t hard for me, I’ve already got my own thief I understand how to use, and to some extent the content presented in them was indeed fun, but you’d know my opinion already if you read my numerous long blurbs of text that are understandably probably way too much text for the average person to care to read, so I won’t really bore you with the details – just suffice it to say “all naysayers” comments aren’t as accurate as those casting them are as any “all supports” comments anyone else could make.

Mal.1670:

Seriously dude? A cut scene ruins the immersion of experience the memories of an important character first-hand. I freaking loved it, it was a great change of pace from every other kitten story mission we’ve ever done.

Seriously dude, ruining immersion by forcing me to control a person who isn’t my character? Opinions run both way, and some of us actually miss those beautiful painted-looking cutscenes, or would argue that by playing an event in the past all feelings of value from the player is taken away from their actions – it’s going to happen the way it happened, else the current time wouldn’t be the way it is. It’s all opinions, and each of us have our own.

Crovax.7854:

Really can’t understand all that negativity. It’s not like you are forced to completely abandon your character in favor of another. The episodes is around 40 minutes out of hundreds on your regular character.

As I see it most complaints are made because people can’t handle a new set of ablities, which in my opinion is a l2p issue instead of a genuine ‘I don’t like the way the story is told’ perspective.

Your first point her has a definite amount of validity to it – Sure, I only have to be forced to play as this other character for 40 minutes instead of my own (assuming this only happens this time, which we do still have one more seed to plant remember) for each character I try to experience this chapter with (which means it’s the exact same for every replay – less an issue of story, but more an issue of removing variety for replayers). Your second comment just comes off as being ignorant, having not read the full breadth of opinions against how this chapter played out, and downright insulting to anyone opposed to your opinion. I’ve been here sharing my thoughts on why I didn’t enjoy having to be Caithe, but I haven’t called supporters of this mission jerks who should go play a different game if they want something different, you know? It’s kinda rude, and demeans any value of your initial points.

It’s really interesting to read the various thoughts on the story and the role that we, as players, played in the update. We’ve highlighted this thread (and a few others) so that the developers can see the various opinions about the Living World updates.

Glad to hear it. Theres some decent arguments on both side the fence on this one if you ask me.

I had no trouble playing caithe for this episode.

As long as Anet does it rarely it’s fine in my books. It is better for the immersion to play an other character with his own skills to add flavour and refreshment to the gameplay experience.

I strongly despise the idea of playing caithe with your own skills: this is no immersion nor flashback, this is costume brawl. And costume brawl belongs to PvP.

I know I complained about having to play as Caithe through all 8 of my toons, but it was a hell enjoyable trip. Yes her skill set was OP for PvE. I was using her stuff min/max to tear through each run as fast as I could.

Excellence in spite of boredom?

It’s rather fascinating how rude some people are about differing opinions on a game.

Some people like red, some people like blue.
Some people like broccoli, some people don’t.
Some people like pick-up trucks, some people don’t.

Some people like the “Caithe” episode, some (me included) don’t.

A matter of taste and priorities.

ANet will never make a game that appeals to every taste. They do enough stuff right, I’m willing to bypass content I hate and let other people enjoy it. But in no way will or should I pretend to like something merely to make forum warriors happy.

I have seven characters, not one is a thief. Why? Well because I can’t stand the gameplay mechanics of that profession. Now I’m being forced to play as a thief and cannot get past that kittening stealth part in ‘Meeting the Asura’. I’ve being trying since day one, and still can’t get through it.

It doesn’t help that the LFG is broken too.

Playing as Caithe was awesome. MORE OF THIS!
No game EVER should do cutscenes to everything. Learn to play people.

Wolfeng.3784:

Playing as Caithe was awesome. MORE OF THIS!
No game EVER should do cutscenes to everything. Learn to play people.

The problem is not learning to play. Quit being rude.

The problem is story and aesthetics. I am not Caithe, I do not want to be Caithe.

Simply put, I want to play my character, not because I’m lazy or unskilled, but because I don’t want to be a character that is not one I created.

Some people like chocolate, some people hate it. It’s a matter of TASTE.

I don’t like the “taste” of episode 7.

In a game this big, I’ll bet I like things you don’t.

Having played the similar missions in GW1 I was looking forward to this episode. I know many didn’t like the historical missions in GW1 that had you playing as historical figures either, but it did give you perspective on those characters history and the lore surrounding those characters. This does the same, it gives you insight into Caithe, and for those that find it hard to see how she would blindly just follow Faolain around, well, perhaps then maybe you’ve never really experienced that deep of love for someone. It’s not unheard of for someone to turn a blind eye to their significant others indiscretions…there have been plenty of news stories with just the same type of response from outside observers. It was different, it wasn’t long and whether you have or had the desire or not to play a thief, it was enjoyable…and a diversion from playing your own character, which in essence you still did, but only in the body of another.

I liked playing Caithe. To me, it was an absolutely wonderful way of providing some proper insight into the Sylvari’s past.

We’ve seen this stuff before, “bonus mission pack”, in gw1. Liked it then, liked it now. As long as we don’t get too much of this in a row (which I really doubt is the case), I think it’s a very nice change. Breaks things up a bit. And I hope to see more of it later.

I generally did not like playing as Caithe, but to mix it up for one story segment is fine.
The story told was much more interesting (imo) than anything thus far. Though the dialogue is still brutal (and having to rewatch… ugh).

I wish she was more OP, like Togo in bonus mission pack. Then it’s more like a cinematic movie play through. If the content is hard(er), it is more frustrating to not be playing on your own character. I played as Caithe to help three groups through the challenge mote, since no one wanted to play as her.

She should have a downed state, I don’t know if that was unintended. But Caithe should be at least as bad kitten as me in every way. And not having a downstate was annoying for the harder content, especially when playing in groups.

tldr; it’s fine and somewhat interesting for one patch, but not my favourite.

Holy Yak, how can people complain about some of the most awesome missions yet in GW2?

FrizzFreston.5290:

TexZero.7910:

I disagree. History like this is better told through cut scenes as the outcome and actions are predetermined. If there was any chance for deviation it would be a game, as is it’s more of a visual novel. I adore visual novels but this one just felt forced and clunky.

In this instance imitation was not the best form of flattery and im sure while some people love playing MGS:Caithe or Assassin’s Creed: Nightmare Court, it wasn’t for me.

Great every game with only one story line is a visual novel now. Why even make games at all. Everything should be cutscenes! throws hands in the air
Not to mention that you name two games right after, basically countering your own point.

Talk about missing the point. Those games have meaningful choices that impact the story and cause the plot and character to progress. This did none of those and was a forced flashback with no change our outcome that was player driven. Cinematics are the perfect tool for that. Being thrust into an unchanging outcome, where the players actions are for not is redundant. The entire point of any RPG is to give the players control over a character they are attached to not some random side character.

Kain Francois.4328:

Holy Yak, how can people complain about some of the most awesome missions yet in GW2?

“Awesome” is an opinion.

From the dictionary:

opinion (noun)
1. a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.
2. a personal view, attitude, or appraisal.

Oh, okay, I’ve tried reading through the thread but I come back to a problem: I somewhat agree with the OP and somewhat disagree.

Look, the Bonus Mission Packs in Guild Wars 1 were a lot of fun because they were departures from playing my own character. But I didn’t want to do them more than once., because I found them interesting and fun . . . but not engaging enough to put myself through more than once.

The Keiran Thackeray missions in Hearts of the North were similar, but I liked them more for basically having it be closer to playing a ranger. Which is my main there and will probably ALWAYS be my main.

So, I’d like it if playing another character through scenes was a sideways branch of story rather than the primary one. And, oh, look, now you can fit in a lot of content which isn’t hampered by requiring the PC to be there . . . you can, in fact, set up ways of enhancing what lore you want to put in by having other devices of this sort – the sylvari seeds? Sure, and norns can get a havroun to take them into the Mists.

. . . or we could use the Mistlock Observatory. Sheesh, it’s there, it’s a part of lore, and it doesn’t have to just be for group play. And there’s no need to invent new lore to establish things! We can just drop into the Mists with a trinket to focus the reliving of the scene . . . not unlike how the Scrying Pool required a focus item to unlock new chapters of Hearts of the North.

(Yes, minor gripe, but why not use things already established? Why go through the trouble inventing something like this and not just . . . re-use what already was proven and known? Heck, the Priory could even have tried studying the Scrying Pool and reinvented it . . . )

Wolfeng.3784:

Playing as Caithe was awesome. MORE OF THIS!
No game EVER should do cutscenes to everything. Learn to play people.

I can play the game as one of my own characters that I created perfectly fine, none of them are a Thief though. For one simple reason, you try to play as a Thief when you only have the use of one hand. It’s nigh on impossible!

Whatever happened to the ‘Play the way you want to play’ mantra?

Tachyon.5897:

Wolfeng.3784:

Playing as Caithe was awesome. MORE OF THIS!
No game EVER should do cutscenes to everything. Learn to play people.

I can play the game as one of my own characters that I created perfectly fine, none of them are a Thief though. For one simple reason, you try to play as a Thief when you only have the use of one hand. It’s nigh on impossible!

Whatever happened to the ‘Play the way you want to play’ mantra?

Hello, fellow one-hander!

I lost use of one hand a while back, my primary, the right one.

Thief mechanics are devilishly difficult as a lefty only. A few other classes I can play, even well in PvP, but not thieves. Caithe drove me nuts.

I don’t expect the game to be designed for crippled folk. I am very disappointed, tho, when they make what is a fun game almost impossible.

I really liked playing as another character instead of just being shown what happened in a video. If I want to just watch videos I’ll go on netflix. I play games when I want to interact with things.

I understand that some people don’t like the thief type characters, but you do have the option to party up and avoid having to play that part that way. Complaining about one tiny part of this huge game where you have a way to play it as your own character… just not solo… seems like entitled rubbish.

I don’t play thieves at all (don’t care for the playstyle) and even I could tell that Caithe’s bar has both op and lolwut? skills on it. But as a lot of people have pointed out, this is basically a GW1 Bonus Pack type instance so you have to play the skill bar you’re given. Fine.

Then please give us Caithe’s trait point allocations as well as her skill bar, instead of jamming us into her skillset with our trait lineup, which may or may not work.

My necro had a terrible time with this, because his trait point allocations did not complement Caithe’s required skills at all. If you’re going to force an NPC’s skillset on us temporarily, you could at least have the courtesy of also temporarily giving us that NPC’s trait points, so we can actually be effective without needing to respec for a completely unfamiliar build and/or profession.

I don’t mind it, but it the combat has to be ‘really’ easy in the first pass (non-achievement mode) because I’m not familiar with the abilities. Achievement mode is where you should be challenged to learn the abilities intimately. For someone like me who just wants to read and enjoy the story and play through it and then move on, I’ll never use the abilities again, I don’t care about them.

I just started ‘No Refuge’ and died literally only after clearing like 10%. I couldn’t deal with a simple veteran, because the heal is weak, and a long cool down, and just isn’t my character.

My staff elementalist has so many tricks, it’s pretty easy for me to stay alive and manage my health through water, cc and my healing ability. I’m quite survivable. And of course, a taunting earth elemental is always handy. Someone else might think that sounds crazy and can’t believe that I can manage fights the way I do, and can only do well as a warrior, or guardian, etc. But…that’s the point.

For that level of combat, we need to be ourselves. I’m fine with being someone else in a fight, but the fight needs to be super easy (in non-achievement; first pass mode).

I don’t like playing other characters. GW1 had these as well and I never played any of these content from GW1. I hope they don’t make us play other characters again…

I don’t mind playing a thief. My thief is probably one of my most played characters. I just don’t like Caithe. I’ll probably get a friend to drag me through it this weekend while I go AFK.

As for the skill changes at least you are not stuck with this for a big chunk of the game(hopefully?) … http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/The_Desolation/Map

All in all, the last couple of patches left me with something of a mixed aftertaste…

On the positive side of things, the story progressed some and more was revealed about Caithe (and why she may have taken the egg) as well as the past of all sylvari. New areas, new jumping puzzle, new loot, fun stuff.

Playing as Caithe was a mixed bag in itself. While I DO enjoy trying a different build every now and then (I have 20 chars as it is), I was mildly annoyed that GW2 departed from the honoured GW1 tradition of NPCs having skills accessible to players.

What nearly ruined the experience for me, however, was the lore inconsistencies introduced and the fact I was not allowed to play my own character. Ok, so Caithe has been carrying an idiot ball twice the size of an asura’s ego (sorry, the in-love excuse only explains so much) but why the hell did my character act the way he did when I was NOT playing as Caithe?

…it’s almost as if the game is a RPG only in the most superficial sense…

I was also quite annoyed with being forced into playing Caithe. I spend a lot of time learning how to handle my class in every situation imaginable, and suddenly being forced into a new class is jarring, especially when you have to complete achievements on it (if you go solo, which, it seems like a decent % of players do). That said, at least they made Caithe incredibly overpowered once you learned to use the elite, caltrops, and spin2win. Still, it would have been much more fun to do it on “my” character.

For the sake of telling a story, I thought the implementation was well-done and quite fun. This type of thing should likely be used sparingly, but in the context of storytelling I think changing up the narrative voice from time to time is a good idea.