Joining the White mantle

Joining the White mantle

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Posted by: Walhalla.5473

Walhalla.5473

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Joining the White mantle

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Posted by: BrotherBelial.3094

BrotherBelial.3094

Although, if the pendulum swung from one side to another once, it can swing back.
Wouldn’t a real hero try to save rather than purge?

Despite having all GW1 chapters, I kept myself out of the War in Kryta, because unlike with following the Flameseeker Prophecy, it is bloodshed for regime change, rather than saving victims from it. virus has a point, in that the faction of the Krytan Monarchy was not above saccrificing civilians, albeit in a passive way. That they also espouse colorism and aspire the colonisation of Elona after having reduced Ebonhawke to a vassal county, makes Divinity’s Reich villains in my book too. Let’s not forget that they also besieged Lion’s Arch in an attempt to forcefully reannex it, only to be dissuaded by Zhaitan’s rise within the Bay of Sirens.

Lions arch was taken over by pirates, while the rest of kryta was coming to turns with what had happened, the pirates where not there to start with, it was never theses it belonged to Kryta, it only became more of a civilized place shortly before the book edge of destiny. And that was only because they had to more or less give up there life at sea because of Zhitan. The Mantle on the other had, they are true believers in the Unseen ones, or only out for the power the white mantle can bring them. Good being do not join a group of mass murders, then think, I can change them from the inside, they’d end up dead.

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Posted by: Annatar.8175

Annatar.8175

Sorry, Virus, I have to disagree on many points.
While I like the Mursaat as cool villains, they still remain that: villains.
The White Mantles I always liked a bit less, since they’re somehow more pathetic, willing puppets of smarter and far more cunning and powerful manipulators.
Anyway, aside from personal tastes.
1. How is it that King Jadon of Kryta is to be blamed for running for is life in front of Charr invasion (1070 AE) while Mursaat running for their life from Elder Dragons (10,000 BE) was fair? Running is running.
2. Nowhere in game (as far as I know) is/was said that opening the Door of Komalie resulted in magic being released from the Bloodstone in Abaddon’s Mouth or anywhere else. Opening the Door of Komalie frees Titans, does not awake Elder Dragons (until officially stated otherwise).
3. The White Mantle never honestly worked in the best interest of Kryta or Tyria at large. They are either zealots fanatically devoted to the Mursaat (who just coincidentally needed a kingdom to work for them, in order to covertly sacrifice souls and keep the Door of Komalie closed) or self-righteous power-hungry criminals. Murdering citizens who in good faith trust you (as Justiciar Hablion and others did back then) never can be justified with “you must endure for the greater good”. Does not matter how much safe they kept the country since they did not have the morals to back up their right to rule.
4. Even now, the White Mantle is actively trying to infiltrate and subvert the Krytan government from within, with methods like poisoning, kidnapping, brainwashing and murdering. They are terrorist and that makes your points of “Shining Blades stroke first” and “the Queen didn’t send a diplomat” just moot points. Sending diplomats to deal with terrorists would acknowledge them as recognized political entities on equal terms with the Krytan government. At that point, if that is the attitude, one could just forfeit the war and surrender.
5. As for in game implementations, as everyone else said, joining the White Mantle won’t happen. It is not like joining the Vigil/Whispers/Priory. It would a choice much more divisive, with much more impact on the story. Very, VERY improbable to happen in Guild Wars 2. At that point, you could just wish for a new playable race, if you want. Tengu, Skritt, Titans… Mursaat.

(edited by Annatar.8175)

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Posted by: Bazompora.2635

Bazompora.2635

Lions arch was taken over by pirates, while the rest of kryta was coming to turns with what had happened, the pirates where not there to start with, it was never theses it belonged to Kryta, it only became more of a civilized place shortly before the book edge of destiny. And that was only because they had to more or less give up there life at sea because of Zhitan. The Mantle on the other had, they are true believers in the Unseen ones, or only out for the power the white mantle can bring them. Good being do not join a group of mass murders, then think, I can change them from the inside, they’d end up dead.

Yet, that’s already the default position. Villages like Demetra, that sided with the White Mantle during and after the War in Kryta, have been wiped out off the map and the ‘New Krytan’ (Ascalonian settlers and Shining Blade) offensive, also described as a war of attrition, resulted in a demographic shift from a brown Krytan population to a nigh-all white Kryta. This is the nation you hold up on higher moral ground than the White Mantle, even though Ascalonian settlers and Divinity’s still deny Kormir’s blackness and worship a horned effigy instead.

Elonians who know her history are often proud to have one of their own in the pantheon.

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Posted by: Zok.4956

Zok.4956

i hope in the new story we will be able to pick the White mantle as a side to join. kind of like the luxons vs kurzick in gws 1…but White Mantle vs Shining blade.

And as a result we will have open-world-PvP between “Players that choose the White mantle” versus “the rest of Tyria and all other players”.

No, please not.

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Posted by: BrotherBelial.3094

BrotherBelial.3094

Lions arch was taken over by pirates, while the rest of kryta was coming to turns with what had happened, the pirates where not there to start with, it was never theses it belonged to Kryta, it only became more of a civilized place shortly before the book edge of destiny. And that was only because they had to more or less give up there life at sea because of Zhitan. The Mantle on the other had, they are true believers in the Unseen ones, or only out for the power the white mantle can bring them. Good being do not join a group of mass murders, then think, I can change them from the inside, they’d end up dead.

Yet, that’s already the default position. Villages like Demetra, that sided with the White Mantle during and after the War in Kryta, have been wiped out off the map and the ‘New Krytan’ (Ascalonian settlers and Shining Blade) offensive, also described as a war of attrition, resulted in a demographic shift from a brown Krytan population to a nigh-all white Kryta. This is the nation you hold up on higher moral ground than the White Mantle, even though Ascalonian settlers and Divinity’s still deny Kormir’s blackness and worship a horned effigy instead.

lolwhat? Divinity’s Reach is built on top of one of the White Mantles Holy Citys. The Queen is “brown”. Yes your right it’s all about white power………………….

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Posted by: Bazompora.2635

Bazompora.2635

lolwhat? Divinity’s Reach is built on top of one of the White Mantles Holy Citys. The Queen is “brown”. Yes your right it’s all about white power………………….

And the president of the USA is half-black; therefore, that country has no tradition of white supremacy nor been evil unto black people, by the same logic. No, like Native Americans, queen Jennah is part of a small brown minority, that only 250 years before was the majority. Kryta after the White Mantle is still a bad place of oppression and even greater inequality, just like the charr are still belligerent sadists after the Flame Legion was cast out. Yet, you don’t have any objection to joining either of these two powers. I see a double standard there.

Elonians who know her history are often proud to have one of their own in the pantheon.

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Posted by: Budman.2934

Budman.2934

2 factions of white mantle one side is evil the other side still pretty bad but i’d side the mursaat any day of the week after the pact getting there Kitten handed to em

not much is left to fight the dragons save for civilians and they don’t seem to be doing that much to fight the dragons other than getting killed by em unless Kryta Enacts a draft I doubt there will be enough manpower to fight the rest of the dragons

also Spoiler pretty sure Rata Sum gonna go bye bye soon

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Posted by: BrotherBelial.3094

BrotherBelial.3094

lolwhat? Divinity’s Reach is built on top of one of the White Mantles Holy Citys. The Queen is “brown”. Yes your right it’s all about white power………………….

And the president of the USA is half-black; therefore, that country has no tradition of white supremacy nor been evil unto black people, by the same logic. No, like Native Americans, queen Jennah is part of a small brown minority, that only 250 years before was the majority. Kryta after the White Mantle is still a bad place of oppression and even greater inequality, just like the charr are still belligerent sadists after the Flame Legion was cast out. Yet, you don’t have any objection to joining either of these two powers. I see a double standard there.

Sorry your bringing real world problems to a game where there are none, sorry but you need to stop talking,

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Posted by: Bazompora.2635

Bazompora.2635

Sorry your bringing real world problems to a game where there are none, sorry but you need to stop talking,

Are you for real? This isn’t the Mushroom Kingdom we’re talking! Real world problems are an integral part of this franchise: nationalism, social stratification, political assassinations, societal collapse and refugee crises are all themes in Guild Wars 2. Deal with it.

Elonians who know her history are often proud to have one of their own in the pantheon.

(edited by Bazompora.2635)

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Posted by: Astralporing.1957

Astralporing.1957

Yet, that’s already the default position. Villages like Demetra, that sided with the White Mantle during and after the War in Kryta, have been wiped out off the map and the ‘New Krytan’ (Ascalonian settlers and Shining Blade) offensive, also described as a war of attrition, resulted in a demographic shift from a brown Krytan population to a nigh-all white Kryta. This is the nation you hold up on higher moral ground than the White Mantle, even though Ascalonian settlers and Divinity’s still deny Kormir’s blackness and worship a horned effigy instead.

Ascalonian settler descendants are still a minority, and shining blade were of the same descent as white mantle followers (just check in gw1, there’s no visible racial difference there – and it would be weird for it to be, seeing as both groups rise from the very same populace). If there was, indeed, a racial shift (as opposed to asset creators just forgetting about stuff), it must have had a different cause. For example, most of the southern inhabitants dying en masse due to Zhaitan’s appearance and the floodings.

In other words, check your facts first. So far, from your posts, it’s clear you didn’t.

Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November

(edited by Astralporing.1957)

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Posted by: Bazompora.2635

Bazompora.2635

In other words, check your facts first. So far, from your posts, it’s clear you didn’t.

  • Fact: the original Shining Blade were already a minority among Old Krytans, just like their brown kin is now among New Krytans.
  • Fact: New Krytans like Logan Thackeray, though identifying as Krytans and not Ascalonians, are of Ascalonian ancestry.
  • Fact: the effects of Zhaitan’s flood have left no trace as far north as Nebo Terrace, Beetletun, Demetra or Divinity’s Coast; all formerly having brown populations on average.
  • Fact: floods aren’t racist.
  • Fact: with one exception, Demetra is haunted by white Ascalonian ghosts and their minions even have the ‘Ascalonian’ prefix!
    *Fact: Old Krytan ghosts, civilians and White Mantle alike are brown.

I have done my work, so speak for yourself.

Elonians who know her history are often proud to have one of their own in the pantheon.

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Posted by: Astralporing.1957

Astralporing.1957

Fact: the original Shining Blade were already a minority among Old Krytans, just like their brown kin is now among New Krytans.

Where did you get that? Shining blade were not of separate ethnicity, they were an organization of rebels, that drew its members from the very same populace White Mantle did.

  • Fact: New Krytans like Logan Thackeray, though identifying as Krytans and not Ascalonians, are of Ascalonian ancestry.

That’s not a “fact”, unless you have some source for that. Yes, there are people living in kryta that have non-krytan or mixed ancestry. Which by the way doesn’t necessarily need to be Ascalonian. There are Canthan and Elonian refugees descendants in Kryta too (you remember, that Marjory for example is part Canthan, do you?). Most of ascalonian refugees are likely now living in or around Ebonhawke, not in Kryta proper.

Yes, there was likely some shift of ethnicity, due to mixing of blood of all those refugees. This doesn’t imply in any way that there was a direct conflict between “old” and “new” Krytans, that “old” krytans died out) or even, as you seemed to imply, the “old” were killed off by the “new”.

By the way, the “old krytan” also weren’t of one ethnicity, as they were a mix of people of Elonian and Orrian descent, with Orrians, as far as we know, being predominantly white. Which i seem you mentioned in that other post of yours you linked, without drawing any conclusions from it.

Fact: the effects of Zhaitan’s flood have left no trace as far north as Nebo Terrace, Beetletun, Demetra or Divinity’s Coast; all formerly having brown populations on average.

Good, then we can rule that out. I was giving it as a potential ingame reason example only. I still think that the real results of the change lie completely outside of the game world.

Fact: floods aren’t racist.

Never said it was.

Fact: with one exception, Demetra is haunted by white Ascalonian ghosts and their minions even have the ‘Ascalonian’ prefix!

Yeah, reused foefire ghosts assets. Laziness, not a symbol of a racial purge. Besides, weren’t you the one to say that Demetra was a settlement that got wiped out by “new krytans” due to being white mantle sympathizers? Shouldn’t those ghosts be dark-skinned then?

I think you are just looking too deeply into something that was nothing more than an image change between games coupled perhaps with different people working on assets then and now.

It’s not like there weren’t other, much bigger and more impactful changes being made to the world lore, by the way. The Tyria of GW1 is not the same world as Tyria of GW2, it’s more like an alternate version of it.

Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November

(edited by Astralporing.1957)

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Posted by: Moderator

Moderator

This thread has wandered off topic and will now be locked. Thank you.