Maybe I’m getting the wrong tone but I don’t like getting it in my face that I’m getting a prize and should be grateful for it, when it truth it was something that was promised from the beginning. Not cool.
Especially when they never said they were going to be jamming it down our throats every two weeks, so it’s a prize I don’t even want. It’s irritating to see them touting the very thing that drove me from logging in as a feature I’m supposed to be all excited about.
Of course it’s a sales pitch. When does a company that’s selling a product not make a sales pitch? Why would you expect the marketing department of a company not to make a sales pitch.
Companies pitch their products in an attempt to get people to buy them. Is that somehow wrong?
Vayne, why are you yelling at me about it? I’m the one who said it was a sales pitch. The guy I responded to was the one telling me it was a bit misleading for me to claim it was a sales pitch.
If you’re going to try to argue with me, at least try to pick a topic that we actually disagree about!
Of course it’s a sales pitch. When does a company that’s selling a product not make a sales pitch? Why would you expect the marketing department of a company not to make a sales pitch.
Companies pitch their products in an attempt to get people to buy them. Is that somehow wrong?
Vayne, why are you yelling at me about it? I’m the one who said it was a sales pitch. The guy I responded to was the one telling me it was a bit misleading for me to claim it was a sales pitch.
If you’re going to try to argue with me, at least try to pick a topic that we actually disagree about!
I just don’t know why it’s a problem if it is a sales pitch. That’s my thing. I don’t see why it matters at all.
Maybe I’m getting the wrong tone but I don’t like getting it in my face that I’m getting a prize and should be grateful for it, when it truth it was something that was promised from the beginning. Not cool.
Especially when they never said they were going to be jamming it down our throats every two weeks, so it’s a prize I don’t even want. It’s irritating to see them touting the very thing that drove me from logging in as a feature I’m supposed to be all excited about.
Grr.
That’s another thing I dislike.
The idea ins’t wrong but their methods are. How do they expect to be able to deliver quality content in a pressure jet of 2 weeks each? How come their staff is still standing with a schedule like this? I would much rather they take one month or two between each to give us some quality than this.
It feels like content for casuals or people with lower satisfaction standards. If they want people to stick to their game, they need to focus on what some of the hardcore fans want, those that are willing to stay for longer periods of time. I think its a better medium-long term strategy unless they’re planning something big and this is just a “patch” to keep us busy while they work on it…
You people don’t know the difference between annecdotal evidence and eye witness testimony.
Of course – that’s because they’re the same thing.
Witness testimony has zero value if not corroborated by evidence or cross-referenced against other examples of witness testimony. A word by itself is worth less than nothing.
Friend: “What have they added since I left in May?”
Me: “Well, nothing that you can do.”
Friend: “What do you mean?”
Me: “Well, they added this, this, and this but they took it out of the game 2 weeks later. It’s part of their living story.”
Friend: “Seriously?”
Me: “Yeah”
Friend: “That’s the stupidest kitten thing I’ve ever heard!”
Me: “Yeah, I know.”
I wish I could upvote this to infinity.
Yep pretty much it. This was my conversation with one of my friends recently word for word almost exactly LOL smh.
I just don’t know why it’s a problem if it is a sales pitch. That’s my thing. I don’t see why it matters at all.
Because in my opinion, due to the rush-rush nature and deadlines of Living Story content, it’s a high-pressure sales pitch. As I said in an earlier post:
And yes, it’s true: we don’t have to do Living Story content. Duh. But our only option is to do it or miss it. And for me, that’s not an option, its a sleazy sales push.
“One time offer!”
“Act now!”
“Limited time only!”
It’s the pressure and the deadlines of Living Story that make it a completely miserable experience for me, and I don’t like these kind of sales tactics. That’s all.
And yes, it’s true: we don’t have to do Living Story content. Duh. But our only option is to do it or miss it. And for me, that’s not an option, its a sleazy sales push.
“One time offer!”
“Act now!”
“Limited time only!”
You know…
Its not even the “hit or miss” part that annoys me, its when I don’t want to do it and rather play with my friends but turns out all of them are with the “fever run” and can’t stop till they have gotten everything.
I’m playing an MMO, a social game, where instead of having fun with my friends, they’re all more worried about loot and achievements. And its even worse when they don’t like it either but still do it.
Friend: " Oh hey, sorry about that!" Me: “Np. So… I’ve had some fun ideas that I thought about sharing with you!” Friend: “Oh sure, let me just- Gasp New content! Ok, you stay tight, I’ve gotta finish this in the next coming days if I can!”
You people don’t know the difference between annecdotal evidence and eye witness testimony.
Of course – that’s because they’re the same thing.
Witness testimony has zero value if not corroborated by evidence or cross-referenced against other examples of witness testimony. A word by itself is worth less than nothing.
Not necessarily true. Witnesses are heard and taken on face value, unless they’re a reason not to believe them.
For example, I couldn’t actually say I know someone who knows someone in court, because in court, that would be considered hearsay and inadmissible. I could very well say I saw something. It may be accepted or not accepted, but it’s not against the rules.
You people don’t know the difference between annecdotal evidence and eye witness testimony.
Of course – that’s because they’re the same thing.
Witness testimony has zero value if not corroborated by evidence or cross-referenced against other examples of witness testimony. A word by itself is worth less than nothing.
Not necessarily true. Witnesses are heard and taken on face value, unless they’re a reason not to believe them.
For example, I couldn’t actually say I know someone who knows someone in court, because in court, that would be considered hearsay and inadmissible. I could very well say I saw something. It may be accepted or not accepted, but it’s not against the rules.
How in your mind are those the same thing?
Anecdotal and eye witness testimony is the same thing.
Anecdotal- I have only ever seen it rain when it is dark, therefor it only rains when it is dark. Anecdotal evidence is taken from personal experience and is generally not backed up by long term observation over an extended period of time. It’s the same thing as saying “The game must be dying/growing because my guild/LA/instance has seen a marked growth/decline/overflow/non overflow”.
Any anecdotal evidence must be taken with a grain of salt (or a shaker full). Just because you see something or hear something does not make it true.
Eye witness testimony is taken in the exact same manner. Five eye witnesses to a crime may see totally different things and corroboration is usually needed to make eye witness testimony worthwhile. “Two individuals said the suspect was heavyset and in their mid 40’s, while two others said the suspect was lean and very young”. Can these eyewitness accounts all be true? To the person giving the account they are true (assuming total honesty on the witnesses part), but in a courtroom or to someone who wasn’t there this evidence is worthless.
Anecdotal and eye witness accounts are the same thing.
And as far as it goes for Devs lying, I can easily bring up evidence to show them saying one thing and doing the exact opposite or just outright lying. Implementation of Ascended gear is probably the easiest example.
Witnesses are heard and taken on face value, unless they’re a reason not to believe them.
That’s not how the world works, dude.
(Most legal systems don’t work that way either; Killcannon explains it quite nicely, actually.)
The bottom line is, it’s of no value whatsoever to other people what you say you heard someone say about the game, and we certainly have no reason to take it at face value. Not because you’re a liar, but just because we weren’t there.
Find a quote of what you’re talking about, that’s another story.
You people don’t know the difference between annecdotal evidence and eye witness testimony.
Of course – that’s because they’re the same thing.
Witness testimony has zero value if not corroborated by evidence or cross-referenced against other examples of witness testimony. A word by itself is worth less than nothing.
Not necessarily true. Witnesses are heard and taken on face value, unless they’re a reason not to believe them.
For example, I couldn’t actually say I know someone who knows someone in court, because in court, that would be considered hearsay and inadmissible. I could very well say I saw something. It may be accepted or not accepted, but it’s not against the rules.
How in your mind are those the same thing?
Anecdotal and eye witness testimony is the same thing.
Anecdotal- I have only ever seen it rain when it is dark, therefor it only rains when it is dark. Anecdotal evidence is taken from personal experience and is generally not backed up by long term observation over an extended period of time. It’s the same thing as saying “The game must be dying/growing because my guild/LA/instance has seen a marked growth/decline/overflow/non overflow”.
Any anecdotal evidence must be taken with a grain of salt (or a shaker full). Just because you see something or hear something does not make it true.
Eye witness testimony is taken in the exact same manner. Five eye witnesses to a crime may see totally different things and corroboration is usually needed to make eye witness testimony worthwhile. “Two individuals said the suspect was heavyset and in their mid 40’s, while two others said the suspect was lean and very young”. Can these eyewitness accounts all be true? To the person giving the account they are true (assuming total honesty on the witnesses part), but in a courtroom or to someone who wasn’t there this evidence is worthless.
Anecdotal and eye witness accounts are the same thing.
And as far as it goes for Devs lying, I can easily bring up evidence to show them saying one thing and doing the exact opposite or just outright lying. Implementation of Ascended gear is probably the easiest example.
Yes, but you weren’t there for THIS conversation and I was. You can say anything you want. If this dev was going to lie to me, he’d have painted some things in a much different light. I keep saying it and people keep ignoring it.
I wonder why.
This guy wasn’t trying to paint a rosy red picture of the game or the company.
Witnesses are heard and taken on face value, unless they’re a reason not to believe them.
That’s not how the world works, dude.
(Most legal systems don’t work that way either; Killcannon explains it quite nicely, actually.)
The bottom line is, it’s of no value whatsoever to other people what you say you heard someone say about the game, and we certainly have no reason to take it at face value. Not because you’re a liar, but just because we weren’t there.
Find a quote of what you’re talking about, that’s another story.
If you and killcanon can’t see the difference between I saw/heard something and I learned from someone else that they saw and heard it, I’m not sure there’s much point in continuing this conversation.
Each chain link something is removed from the direction source is another opportunity to corrupt.
That’s why you actually can’t say I heard someone else say in court (it will be objected to, on the grounds it’s hearsay), where as you can hear what I say in court whether you accept it or not.
Basically if I go in court and I testify that someone told me he saw something, it can be thrown out on the grounds of hearsay legally. If I go in and I saw something it can NOT be thrown out on the grounds of hearsay.
That doesn’t mean it will be automatically accepted. But it does mean that it’s different.
Hell even the word itself…hearsay. You hear something and say it. Not you see something and you say it.
You people don’t know the difference between annecdotal evidence and eye witness testimony.
Of course – that’s because they’re the same thing.
Witness testimony has zero value if not corroborated by evidence or cross-referenced against other examples of witness testimony. A word by itself is worth less than nothing.
Not necessarily true. Witnesses are heard and taken on face value, unless they’re a reason not to believe them.
For example, I couldn’t actually say I know someone who knows someone in court, because in court, that would be considered hearsay and inadmissible. I could very well say I saw something. It may be accepted or not accepted, but it’s not against the rules.
How in your mind are those the same thing?
Anecdotal and eye witness testimony is the same thing.
Anecdotal- I have only ever seen it rain when it is dark, therefor it only rains when it is dark. Anecdotal evidence is taken from personal experience and is generally not backed up by long term observation over an extended period of time. It’s the same thing as saying “The game must be dying/growing because my guild/LA/instance has seen a marked growth/decline/overflow/non overflow”.
Any anecdotal evidence must be taken with a grain of salt (or a shaker full). Just because you see something or hear something does not make it true.
Eye witness testimony is taken in the exact same manner. Five eye witnesses to a crime may see totally different things and corroboration is usually needed to make eye witness testimony worthwhile. “Two individuals said the suspect was heavyset and in their mid 40’s, while two others said the suspect was lean and very young”. Can these eyewitness accounts all be true? To the person giving the account they are true (assuming total honesty on the witnesses part), but in a courtroom or to someone who wasn’t there this evidence is worthless.
Anecdotal and eye witness accounts are the same thing.
And as far as it goes for Devs lying, I can easily bring up evidence to show them saying one thing and doing the exact opposite or just outright lying. Implementation of Ascended gear is probably the easiest example.
Yes, but you weren’t there for THIS conversation and I was. You can say anything you want. If this dev was going to lie to me, he’d have painted some things in a much different light. I keep saying it and people keep ignoring it.
I wonder why.
This guy wasn’t trying to paint a rosy red picture of the game or the company.
No clue about what the dev did or did not say. It just doesn’t matter what the dev did or did not say.
For what it’s worth, I believe you. But, again, it doesn’t matter to the overall scheme of the discussion if I do or do not. It still breaks down to anecdotal evidence. And the thing being discussed wasn’t hearsay and eye witness testimony. It was eye witness testimony and anecdotal evidence.
Come on, Vayne. You’d ought to have realized that your word isn’t worth more than that of anyone else.
No, my word isn’t worth more than anyone else and if you’re reading what I’m saying you’d know that.
Everyone’s word has equal value. That’s it. Either you trust a person or you don’t trust a person. It’s that simple. But saying that something happened to you is still substantially different than saying something happened to someone I know.
People can make up their minds whether to trust me or not. But if it happened to someone else, now you have to trust my trust, which is an entirely different thing.
Of course I expect people to disbelieve me, but I have friends on these forums and supporters who will believe me. Whether you personally do or not, I could care less.
You people don’t know the difference between annecdotal evidence and eye witness testimony.
Of course – that’s because they’re the same thing.
Witness testimony has zero value if not corroborated by evidence or cross-referenced against other examples of witness testimony. A word by itself is worth less than nothing.
Not necessarily true. Witnesses are heard and taken on face value, unless they’re a reason not to believe them.
For example, I couldn’t actually say I know someone who knows someone in court, because in court, that would be considered hearsay and inadmissible. I could very well say I saw something. It may be accepted or not accepted, but it’s not against the rules.
How in your mind are those the same thing?
Anecdotal and eye witness testimony is the same thing.
Anecdotal- I have only ever seen it rain when it is dark, therefor it only rains when it is dark. Anecdotal evidence is taken from personal experience and is generally not backed up by long term observation over an extended period of time. It’s the same thing as saying “The game must be dying/growing because my guild/LA/instance has seen a marked growth/decline/overflow/non overflow”.
Any anecdotal evidence must be taken with a grain of salt (or a shaker full). Just because you see something or hear something does not make it true.
Eye witness testimony is taken in the exact same manner. Five eye witnesses to a crime may see totally different things and corroboration is usually needed to make eye witness testimony worthwhile. “Two individuals said the suspect was heavyset and in their mid 40’s, while two others said the suspect was lean and very young”. Can these eyewitness accounts all be true? To the person giving the account they are true (assuming total honesty on the witnesses part), but in a courtroom or to someone who wasn’t there this evidence is worthless.
Anecdotal and eye witness accounts are the same thing.
And as far as it goes for Devs lying, I can easily bring up evidence to show them saying one thing and doing the exact opposite or just outright lying. Implementation of Ascended gear is probably the easiest example.
Yes, but you weren’t there for THIS conversation and I was. You can say anything you want. If this dev was going to lie to me, he’d have painted some things in a much different light. I keep saying it and people keep ignoring it.
I wonder why.
This guy wasn’t trying to paint a rosy red picture of the game or the company.
No clue about what the dev did or did not say. It just doesn’t matter what the dev did or did not say.
For what it’s worth, I believe you. But, again, it doesn’t matter to the overall scheme of the discussion if I do or do not. It still breaks down to anecdotal evidence.
That’s fine. Call it anything you like. I used the word hearsay I believe, not anecdotal, which is quite different.
Edit: Nope I just looked, I did use the word anecdotal, but I was talking about hearsay.
You people don’t know the difference between annecdotal evidence and eye witness testimony.
Of course – that’s because they’re the same thing.
Witness testimony has zero value if not corroborated by evidence or cross-referenced against other examples of witness testimony. A word by itself is worth less than nothing.
Not necessarily true. Witnesses are heard and taken on face value, unless they’re a reason not to believe them.
For example, I couldn’t actually say I know someone who knows someone in court, because in court, that would be considered hearsay and inadmissible. I could very well say I saw something. It may be accepted or not accepted, but it’s not against the rules.
How in your mind are those the same thing?
Anecdotal and eye witness testimony is the same thing.
Anecdotal- I have only ever seen it rain when it is dark, therefor it only rains when it is dark. Anecdotal evidence is taken from personal experience and is generally not backed up by long term observation over an extended period of time. It’s the same thing as saying “The game must be dying/growing because my guild/LA/instance has seen a marked growth/decline/overflow/non overflow”.
Any anecdotal evidence must be taken with a grain of salt (or a shaker full). Just because you see something or hear something does not make it true.
Eye witness testimony is taken in the exact same manner. Five eye witnesses to a crime may see totally different things and corroboration is usually needed to make eye witness testimony worthwhile. “Two individuals said the suspect was heavyset and in their mid 40’s, while two others said the suspect was lean and very young”. Can these eyewitness accounts all be true? To the person giving the account they are true (assuming total honesty on the witnesses part), but in a courtroom or to someone who wasn’t there this evidence is worthless.
Anecdotal and eye witness accounts are the same thing.
And as far as it goes for Devs lying, I can easily bring up evidence to show them saying one thing and doing the exact opposite or just outright lying. Implementation of Ascended gear is probably the easiest example.
Yes, but you weren’t there for THIS conversation and I was. You can say anything you want. If this dev was going to lie to me, he’d have painted some things in a much different light. I keep saying it and people keep ignoring it.
I wonder why.
This guy wasn’t trying to paint a rosy red picture of the game or the company.
No clue about what the dev did or did not say. It just doesn’t matter what the dev did or did not say.
For what it’s worth, I believe you. But, again, it doesn’t matter to the overall scheme of the discussion if I do or do not. It still breaks down to anecdotal evidence. And the thing being discussed wasn’t hearsay and eye witness testimony. It was eye witness testimony and anecdotal evidence.
“Pics or it didn’t happen!” I always screencapped when I was talking to someone ‘official’ about something awesome, like when I spoke to Gayle Grey about her favorite Monty Python, or some of the funny GMs from WoW. All lost on a misplaced harddrive…
My thing is, the story just isn’t that interesting to devote a lot of time to it. Isn’t the world being destroyed by dragons? Who the frak is scarlet? Why do I care? There are dragons flying around mucking things up!
I just want epic storyline, and honestly the latest story makes me go “meh” and go watch netflix. I wanna go out and slay dragons and big bad guys and be like “What’s work?” and play. And I have a secret dream of a living story devoted to Orr, but that’s me I know.
Disclaimer: this is all my opinion. I do log in from time to time, just not very long.
You people don’t know the difference between annecdotal evidence and eye witness testimony.
Of course – that’s because they’re the same thing.
Witness testimony has zero value if not corroborated by evidence or cross-referenced against other examples of witness testimony. A word by itself is worth less than nothing.
Not necessarily true. Witnesses are heard and taken on face value, unless they’re a reason not to believe them.
For example, I couldn’t actually say I know someone who knows someone in court, because in court, that would be considered hearsay and inadmissible. I could very well say I saw something. It may be accepted or not accepted, but it’s not against the rules.
How in your mind are those the same thing?
Anecdotal and eye witness testimony is the same thing.
Anecdotal- I have only ever seen it rain when it is dark, therefor it only rains when it is dark. Anecdotal evidence is taken from personal experience and is generally not backed up by long term observation over an extended period of time. It’s the same thing as saying “The game must be dying/growing because my guild/LA/instance has seen a marked growth/decline/overflow/non overflow”.
Any anecdotal evidence must be taken with a grain of salt (or a shaker full). Just because you see something or hear something does not make it true.
Eye witness testimony is taken in the exact same manner. Five eye witnesses to a crime may see totally different things and corroboration is usually needed to make eye witness testimony worthwhile. “Two individuals said the suspect was heavyset and in their mid 40’s, while two others said the suspect was lean and very young”. Can these eyewitness accounts all be true? To the person giving the account they are true (assuming total honesty on the witnesses part), but in a courtroom or to someone who wasn’t there this evidence is worthless.
Anecdotal and eye witness accounts are the same thing.
And as far as it goes for Devs lying, I can easily bring up evidence to show them saying one thing and doing the exact opposite or just outright lying. Implementation of Ascended gear is probably the easiest example.
Yes, but you weren’t there for THIS conversation and I was. You can say anything you want. If this dev was going to lie to me, he’d have painted some things in a much different light. I keep saying it and people keep ignoring it.
I wonder why.
This guy wasn’t trying to paint a rosy red picture of the game or the company.
No clue about what the dev did or did not say. It just doesn’t matter what the dev did or did not say.
For what it’s worth, I believe you. But, again, it doesn’t matter to the overall scheme of the discussion if I do or do not. It still breaks down to anecdotal evidence. And the thing being discussed wasn’t hearsay and eye witness testimony. It was eye witness testimony and anecdotal evidence.
“Pics or it didn’t happen!” I always screencapped when I was talking to someone ‘official’ about something awesome, like when I spoke to Gayle Grey about her favorite Monty Python, or some of the funny GMs from WoW. All lost on a misplaced harddrive…
This forum would have a field day with the other stuff the dev said. No reason to give anyone ammunition. And no, I don’t go around screenshotting convos. I’d personally consider it rude without consent, unless someone was being abusive.
My thing is, the story just isn’t that interesting to devote a lot of time to it. Isn’t the world being destroyed by dragons? Who the frak is scarlet? Why do I care? There are dragons flying around mucking things up!
I just want epic storyline, and honestly the latest story makes me go “meh” and go watch netflix. I wanna go out and slay dragons and big bad guys and be like “What’s work?” and play. And I have a secret dream of a living story devoted to Orr, but that’s me I know.
Disclaimer: this is all my opinion. I do log in from time to time, just not very long.
We killed one dragon, we don’t know quite where the others are. We’re still dealing with their minions. In the mean time, other stuff happens.
A member of the Lion’s Arch Captain’s Council was assassinated, Scarlet attempted to kidnap Queen Jennah (and would have succeeded), and now she’s sending out her minions to attack various places in the world.
I’m thinking that that’s a good enough reason for most people to care about Scarlet.
Oh, she’s not 80 feet tall and fire breathing…how dangerous can she be?
You people don’t know the difference between annecdotal evidence and eye witness testimony.
Of course – that’s because they’re the same thing.
Witness testimony has zero value if not corroborated by evidence or cross-referenced against other examples of witness testimony. A word by itself is worth less than nothing.
Not necessarily true. Witnesses are heard and taken on face value, unless they’re a reason not to believe them.
For example, I couldn’t actually say I know someone who knows someone in court, because in court, that would be considered hearsay and inadmissible. I could very well say I saw something. It may be accepted or not accepted, but it’s not against the rules.
How in your mind are those the same thing?
Anecdotal and eye witness testimony is the same thing.
Anecdotal- I have only ever seen it rain when it is dark, therefor it only rains when it is dark. Anecdotal evidence is taken from personal experience and is generally not backed up by long term observation over an extended period of time. It’s the same thing as saying “The game must be dying/growing because my guild/LA/instance has seen a marked growth/decline/overflow/non overflow”.
Any anecdotal evidence must be taken with a grain of salt (or a shaker full). Just because you see something or hear something does not make it true.
Eye witness testimony is taken in the exact same manner. Five eye witnesses to a crime may see totally different things and corroboration is usually needed to make eye witness testimony worthwhile. “Two individuals said the suspect was heavyset and in their mid 40’s, while two others said the suspect was lean and very young”. Can these eyewitness accounts all be true? To the person giving the account they are true (assuming total honesty on the witnesses part), but in a courtroom or to someone who wasn’t there this evidence is worthless.
Anecdotal and eye witness accounts are the same thing.
And as far as it goes for Devs lying, I can easily bring up evidence to show them saying one thing and doing the exact opposite or just outright lying. Implementation of Ascended gear is probably the easiest example.
Yes, but you weren’t there for THIS conversation and I was. You can say anything you want. If this dev was going to lie to me, he’d have painted some things in a much different light. I keep saying it and people keep ignoring it.
I wonder why.
This guy wasn’t trying to paint a rosy red picture of the game or the company.
No clue about what the dev did or did not say. It just doesn’t matter what the dev did or did not say.
For what it’s worth, I believe you. But, again, it doesn’t matter to the overall scheme of the discussion if I do or do not. It still breaks down to anecdotal evidence. And the thing being discussed wasn’t hearsay and eye witness testimony. It was eye witness testimony and anecdotal evidence.
“Pics or it didn’t happen!” I always screencapped when I was talking to someone ‘official’ about something awesome, like when I spoke to Gayle Grey about her favorite Monty Python, or some of the funny GMs from WoW. All lost on a misplaced harddrive…
This forum would have a field day with the other stuff the dev said. No reason to give anyone ammunition. And no, I don’t go around screenshotting convos. I’d personally consider it rude without consent, unless someone was being abusive.
That’s fine, dandy, and commendable, but as such I can take what you’re saying at face value as much as I can for someone saying they spoke to a dev that said they’ll be putting in a subscription – meaning I can’t take it at face value, really. This isn’t to say I’d rather you took screenshots and posted them, mind you.
…That’s generally what “living” means. Life grows. If you remove stuff it’s more of a “Dying World”, really.
Not really. the same thing happens in real life and I doubt anyone would consider the real world a dying world just because events happen and then they’re gone. You got 3 states. past, present and future. The molten alliance assault was the past which events played out and lead to tomorrow’s release which I imagine will be an attack on scarlet herself.. this will be our present and the outcome of that will dictate the future. Think WW2… WW2 happened but we cannot directly experience it any more (and thank god for that) except from written accounts of what happened. History isnt pointless it enriches the present and shapes the future. I am sure a lot of threaties and way of doing things changed to avoid a repeat of what led to WW2.
Well, in that case ANet have done a pretty crap job with it, haven’t they? Most of the “Living World” updates concern something that comes out of nowhere, affects a tiny specks of land or gameplay and then goes away never to be seen again.
It’s not “Living” and it’s definitely nothing to do with the “World”. It’s not a story. It’s not something that actually affects the game. It’s just random temporary content.
It would actually be perfectly fine if “Living World” meant some sort of a huge change to the entire game (let’s say, now it rains fire on all maps because Flame Legion got their claws on some ancient magic) that is then supplanted by yet another change. But it’s not what’s happening, is it?
It’s a swindle.
Why do people expect change to be something on an epic scale? ravaged world, raining fire from the skies.? Isnt a demolished light house also change? isnt new settlements also change? We also had events that slightly altered landscapes. We had factions build bases some of which we demolished others remain. Also most of the protagonists in the living story short of scarlet herself didnt come out of thin air. The flaming legion and the dredge where in game from day 1 and were hostile from day 1. Pirates and the inquest were in the game as well. So goes for the steam creatures. They didnt disappear when defeated either. The Sky pirates tried to take over/pillage the bazaar. The motlen alliance and the sky pirates still railied to scarlet’s call when she started openly invaded Tyria and I will be surprised if they’ll not be at her side tomorrow as well.
The story has also been affecting the game directly. MA (molten Alliance) invaded which created refugees as towns burned to the ground. We even went to liberate one such town, cragstead but it was too late it was razed to the ground. Those refugees moved to south-sun where they built quite a few structures that remain there till today. After rebelling against the consortium who tricked them and managed to break free of their contracts they moved to cragstead which is now being rebuilt by them. Thats just the story of the refugees… how about scarlet and her exploits which resulted in Flaming legion allieing themselves with the dredge. The pirates allieing themselves with the inquest and whatever she is doing to get the steam creatures to fight on her side and whatever she did to corrupt the clockwork sentinels.
All around the two-three popular farming spots, sure.
But the world is barren.
Some zones are always going to be more popular then others. The invasions however made sure there are farming spots basically anywhere but the low level maps which are still quite popular. World bosses have now become more valuable basically ensuring there is at least 1 over flow when ever they hit. Dungeons are all valuable now so now most players dont just run cof p1 and nothing else. temples are nw valuable again. etc.. Compare that to a month after launch were most people just farmed Orr and later FoTM ignoring everything else.
Its not perfect yet sure but undeniably going in the right direction.
Unless you want to call the devs liars, you can. The devs have said straight out concurrency is on the rise. I believe them from my own observations.
Some people are coming back, some people are new from the free weekend, and of course, some people have left. No different than any other MMO.
They said it was a rise after the post launch slump. So the player base could have gone down 60% post launch and from there on in it stabilized. We won’t know exactly what the number is.
No. they said it recently and the dev I spoke to said it’s been a consistent rise, particularly on patch days. People are playing.
I’m not talking about an old quote. I’m talking about a conversation I had with a dev (wearing his Anet tag) just a few days ago. The same dev said the dragons in Arah story mode look dorky. lol
You should know better, really. None of that is enough evidence that the player base and concurrent player numbers are any bigger. Until we have factual numbers, your statement is just speculation, just like lower numbers being speculation. A chat with someone who from a PR standpoint could very well be biased does not mean anything really.
At the end you’re right its all impressions and impressions can be deceiving like for example I think if you ask people which part of gw2 has lost the most amount of players? I think you’ll get an unanimous reply there which would be sPvP I image. Correct me if i am wrong. So imagine my surprise at this post: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/My-concerns/first
specifically the following statements by colin:
“People tend to play in different places in Gw2, hot join, solo and team queue and custom arenas combined account for a much larger population than GvG/Team/Random/HA arena ever had most of the time. This doesn’t include WvW, which population wise blows the roof off on top of this.”
As for the number of players playing:
" the population of WvW who plays any given week regularly is larger than the entire population of all of Gw1 the game any given week for a large chunk of the games lifespan. Just want to put things in perspective, Gw1 was amazing, but there is a reason we made Gw2."
I really wonder how many of the players who consider Gw2 as “death” really feel that Gw1 was always death considering that it seems WvW alone has a bigger player base the entire of Gw1 !
Either way, I don’t know what that means since I never played Gw1. For all I know they had 100 people playing that game so of course WvW would be bigger. My point of posting wasn’t to say either claim was more valid than the other, just pointing out it is ridiculous to argue about something there is no proof for. On one hand people really can’t leave this game..since they own it, on the other they certainly can stop playing. The only thing that could tell us which happens more often are numbers.
But there is proof, developer statements !
if they’d have an issue with player numbers they wouldnt say they’re satisified, the game is triving and player counts or on the rise, at worst they’d just not say anything.
Besides I am not sure why this is even an issue, just play the game now with culling gone I dont know why this is still being argued at all just going around a bit will make you realise there is no player count issue in the game, there’s seas of players all around. I played a ton of different MMOs and short of EvE online I have yet to see this amount of players together in different areas of the game!
Sorry, but that isn’t proof. According to your logic they outright lied about the manifesto then..which in turns makes any statements from them too unreliable to hold as proof in any case.
I dont follow, how exactly according my logic they outright lied about the manifesto?
TL;DR:
I’m still having fun, and my friends, for the most part, are still here with me. I don’t think the LS is “the reason” people are leaving. I think those who ARE leaving are the ones that have burned themselves out because they have to have literally everything the game offers, and they’re kittened that they can’t have the chance to get it if they missed it.
It’s why I left. It is why my friend left. It is not a guess. I only speak for 2, but it is solid fact that you cannot dispute with assumption. And I don’t try to speak for an entire demographic. Neither should you.
Sure no one is doubting you thats not what people are saying. Every choice is going to be great for some, abysmal for others. What makes it good or bad isnt if everyone likes it or everyone dislikes it, thats just never going to happen. What makes it good or bad if it does more good to the game then it does bad. If it gets / retains more players the it will cause to leave.
No one is saying LS is perfect and everyone loves it… we’re just saying LS is a great idea and more people enjoy it then they dislike it.
the living story isn’t really something a player who quit will get excited about. Just imagine that you quit a long time ago and uninstalled the game, now you hear that they’re going to have a new update that adds one additional path to the TA dungeon. Would you really be willing to download 20+ GB again just for that?
Alright, I know this is a long post but please bear with me as I try to explain myself.
snip..
It is not as bad as imagine.
There are 4 teams working on LS and each time is responsible for a month length of content which is released in 2 stages.
Each team gets 4 months to work on their two releases
as for the quality I dont think its that bad… characters are memorable enough … I mean I kinda love frostbite and he’s just a pet devourer that does nothing but noises but each LS involving Rox I cant help myself but see what that little rascal will be up to. They have to be doing something right character development wise when you care about a pet of another character!
The overall story isnt amazing so far sure but its kinda hard to judge a story before knowing it all.
I have the same feeling as the OP. It’s like people start seeing that this living story is just a carrot on a stick and adds nothing to the full game. If you have a few busy weeks or you do not like the content(sab as example) it’s even worse.
The enormous amount of skins makes this not better but also worse, there is too much of them in these LS releases.
Players like to play. At their own pace. MMOs offer content, you can explore at your own pace. Normally, Devs add stuff, so there is more content you can discover at your own pace.
One time events are rare and between in other MMO’s for a reason, they annoy people who can not participate.
Making a whole game dependend on one time events (call it Living Story) destroys most players intent to play at their own pace, because it becomes mandatory to play at the pace of the dev cycle, if you want to experience the content.
The game changes from a hidden grind (most games are, some more hidden than others) to a count-down grind, which feel like pressure. People want to get away from the everyday pressure if playing. This produces a paradox, and people will stop enjoying the game.
End of story, they will avoid the stress that is the result of the new content.
Not really… every MMO other has a back story… I dont know if you played GW1 but I am going to use that as an example. Before the time when you start playing Gw1 there are a lot of stuff that happened. You had the 3 guild wars. You had humans invasion and conquering of Ascalon from the Charr etc… You start playing the game after these events and are unable to take part. How is that any different then joining Gw2 today and never getting the opportunity to take part in the motlen alliance invasion? it isnt, it just becomes back story to your experiance nothing else.
Its not a problem just like in gw1 it wasnt a problem that we never get to take part in the original invasion of ascalon.
You people don’t know the difference between annecdotal evidence and eye witness testimony.
Of course – that’s because they’re the same thing.
Witness testimony has zero value if not corroborated by evidence or cross-referenced against other examples of witness testimony. A word by itself is worth less than nothing.
Not necessarily true. Witnesses are heard and taken on face value, unless they’re a reason not to believe them.
For example, I couldn’t actually say I know someone who knows someone in court, because in court, that would be considered hearsay and inadmissible. I could very well say I saw something. It may be accepted or not accepted, but it’s not against the rules.
How in your mind are those the same thing?
Anecdotal and eye witness testimony is the same thing.
Anecdotal- I have only ever seen it rain when it is dark, therefor it only rains when it is dark. Anecdotal evidence is taken from personal experience and is generally not backed up by long term observation over an extended period of time. It’s the same thing as saying “The game must be dying/growing because my guild/LA/instance has seen a marked growth/decline/overflow/non overflow”.
Any anecdotal evidence must be taken with a grain of salt (or a shaker full). Just because you see something or hear something does not make it true.
Eye witness testimony is taken in the exact same manner. Five eye witnesses to a crime may see totally different things and corroboration is usually needed to make eye witness testimony worthwhile. “Two individuals said the suspect was heavyset and in their mid 40’s, while two others said the suspect was lean and very young”. Can these eyewitness accounts all be true? To the person giving the account they are true (assuming total honesty on the witnesses part), but in a courtroom or to someone who wasn’t there this evidence is worthless.
Anecdotal and eye witness accounts are the same thing.
And as far as it goes for Devs lying, I can easily bring up evidence to show them saying one thing and doing the exact opposite or just outright lying. Implementation of Ascended gear is probably the easiest example.
Yes, but you weren’t there for THIS conversation and I was. You can say anything you want. If this dev was going to lie to me, he’d have painted some things in a much different light. I keep saying it and people keep ignoring it.
I wonder why.
This guy wasn’t trying to paint a rosy red picture of the game or the company.
No clue about what the dev did or did not say. It just doesn’t matter what the dev did or did not say.
For what it’s worth, I believe you. But, again, it doesn’t matter to the overall scheme of the discussion if I do or do not. It still breaks down to anecdotal evidence. And the thing being discussed wasn’t hearsay and eye witness testimony. It was eye witness testimony and anecdotal evidence.
“Pics or it didn’t happen!” I always screencapped when I was talking to someone ‘official’ about something awesome, like when I spoke to Gayle Grey about her favorite Monty Python, or some of the funny GMs from WoW. All lost on a misplaced harddrive…
This forum would have a field day with the other stuff the dev said. No reason to give anyone ammunition. And no, I don’t go around screenshotting convos. I’d personally consider it rude without consent, unless someone was being abusive.
That’s fine, dandy, and commendable, but as such I can take what you’re saying at face value as much as I can for someone saying they spoke to a dev that said they’ll be putting in a subscription – meaning I can’t take it at face value, really. This isn’t to say I’d rather you took screenshots and posted them, mind you.
The funny part about this whole thing is that the devs have said the same thing. And I’m just saying I spoke to a dev who said it. Why would anyone doubt that a dev is saying what other devs are saying.
I was simply stating this because people were questioning the integrity of the devs and my contribution was that this guy wasn’t painting a rosy picture with anything else he said. What I said he said…that was already said by others and is a matter of public record.
Those people so intent on doubting me, are asking me to show text of a conversation I had with a dev, who happens to be saying something other devs have said publicly.
Not really. the same thing happens in real life and I doubt anyone would consider the real world a dying world just because events happen and then they’re gone.
For the record, I’d buy the crap out of a machine that allowed me to re-experience any moment of my life.
“More relevant/less crazy” talk: Overall, I’d like to hope people could suspend their disbelief at the cost of allowing new/old players a chance at missed content.
How is that any different then joining Gw2 today and never getting the opportunity to take part in the motlen alliance invasion?
Erm, the MA stuff is gameplay that actually existed..?
My thing is, the story just isn’t that interesting to devote a lot of time to it. Isn’t the world being destroyed by dragons? Who the frak is scarlet? Why do I care? There are dragons flying around mucking things up!
I just want epic storyline, and honestly the latest story makes me go “meh” and go watch netflix. I wanna go out and slay dragons and big bad guys and be like “What’s work?” and play. And I have a secret dream of a living story devoted to Orr, but that’s me I know.
Disclaimer: this is all my opinion. I do log in from time to time, just not very long.
Well lets put it this way… if you’re involved in a war in the real life and you run out of supplies what do you do ? ignore the issue cause there is a much bigger thing at hand to take care of (war). pause the war and make sure your people dont starve since starving to death is not going to be that beneficial to the war effort anyway?
Same thing here.. sure the other dragons are there and will need to be taken care of no doubt. Luckly for us they’re far away enough that for the moment they can be safely ignored. Scarlet started to mess with all of us, it wouldnt make sense to allow her to wreck havok on our homes while we go stir up a new hornets nest which so far for the time being is leaving us alone.
Little birdies telling people stuff, posts gets deleted (not that they would question their PR) rofl
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
the living story isn’t really something a player who quit will get excited about. Just imagine that you quit a long time ago and uninstalled the game, now you hear that they’re going to have a new update that adds one additional path to the TA dungeon. Would you really be willing to download 20+ GB again just for that?
actually yes.. I quit most MMOs when I get to max level because they’re generally become about repeat this raid / dungeon over and over again until in 6 months time we’ll release 1 month worth of content at which point you can repeat the cycle once again.
I would go back to some of them if they did what gw2 does and release new content every 2 weeks. Depends on the player!
I love Living Story except for the ‘Aetherblade Retreat’ part and this Tequatl LS isn’t realy interesting storywhise, but there will always be bad days and good days.
Some of my friends loves the Living World content and some doesn’t even know it exists or doesn’t give enough time to do it since they don’t have enough time, these specific friends I talk about bought this game with me on Pre-release day and last weekend they finally compleated their Personal Story.
What I mean is that if you don’t have time to play the Living Story I assume you are not even done with the rest of the stuff in the game and also, let’s say starting a few weeks back there has been more and more permanent content.
I am happy that some event’s come and go, like SAB… It has been active now for a while and the first weeks I played it all the time, now I am tired of it and I just can’t get the feel again but I am certain that next time it comes I will be there and enjoy the content both old and new.
Member of Alpha Swedish Gaming Community – http://www.alphas.se/
Guild Leader of Alpha Sgc [ASGC]
I love gw2 I’m currently having a small break but for no real reason but i will come back for every ls update i love the LS this is what I’ve looked for in an mmo ever since myth of soma back in the day with there events and is how an mmo should be of you ask me though for achievement whores there should be an option to experience them all and fractals ( solo fractals ) is a perfect way to out it in can also have a tribulation mode like the sab for a challenge, ha boom. Sorted.
Also a proper rating system would be good with some arena fight to the death like matches available. Sorry I we t off topic.
Not really. the same thing happens in real life and I doubt anyone would consider the real world a dying world just because events happen and then they’re gone.
For the record, I’d buy the crap out of a machine that allowed me to re-experience any moment of my life.
“More relevant/less crazy” talk: Overall, I’d like to hope people could suspend their disbelief at the cost of allowing new/old players a chance at missed content.
How is that any different then joining Gw2 today and never getting the opportunity to take part in the motlen alliance invasion?
Erm, the MA stuff is gameplay that actually existed..?
Yes I am sure given the opportunity we’d all buy a time machine in order to get filthy rich not realizing the result would be complete collapse of the world economy in a single instance.
Back on subject… thing is people act as if new player who joined today are going to find nothing to do or something. They still have the original release + new living story which is actually something hard to keep up with. I leveled up like 3 characters to 80 before living story hit only 1 since LS story started and that says a lot since we had 3 months of no living story and 10 months of living story. Thats not because I play less today, its because there is a lot to do in the LS.
Sure MA was actually playable content which we who were there played. Its now back story for players who join today no different then any back story in any mmo. Why dont feel bad for never playing through back story of MMOs why should this be any different? And keep in mind its not even that bad since they promised parts of it will become fractals and they’ll be able to use GW2 time machine to experience some of it in the future. But in any case they’ll have new stuff to do and experience as well from the day they start playing.
Players like to play. At their own pace. MMOs offer content, you can explore at your own pace. Normally, Devs add stuff, so there is more content you can discover at your own pace.
One time events are rare and between in other MMO’s for a reason, they annoy people who can not participate.
Making a whole game dependend on one time events (call it Living Story) destroys most players intent to play at their own pace, because it becomes mandatory to play at the pace of the dev cycle, if you want to experience the content.
The game changes from a hidden grind (most games are, some more hidden than others) to a count-down grind, which feel like pressure. People want to get away from the everyday pressure if playing. This produces a paradox, and people will stop enjoying the game.
End of story, they will avoid the stress that is the result of the new content.
Not really… every MMO other has a back story… I dont know if you played GW1 but I am going to use that as an example. Before the time when you start playing Gw1 there are a lot of stuff that happened. You had the 3 guild wars. You had humans invasion and conquering of Ascalon from the Charr etc… You start playing the game after these events and are unable to take part. How is that any different then joining Gw2 today and never getting the opportunity to take part in the motlen alliance invasion? it isnt, it just becomes back story to your experiance nothing else.
Its not a problem just like in gw1 it wasnt a problem that we never get to take part in the original invasion of ascalon.
This makes no sense. You are talking of a background story, of lore, which is essential to build a world that is believable. It is everywhere around you, as it is part of why you are in the mystical world.
Tell me, what part of, for example, the molten alliance invasion has become lore, an epic event that has shaped the world so drastically, that future content is build on it.
We have 2 npcs left from that, but surely, the game is not building up on these former events.
The living story is mostly just trashing out fire and forget content, that has no influx on the bigger picture.
Players like to play. At their own pace. MMOs offer content, you can explore at your own pace. Normally, Devs add stuff, so there is more content you can discover at your own pace.
One time events are rare and between in other MMO’s for a reason, they annoy people who can not participate.
Making a whole game dependend on one time events (call it Living Story) destroys most players intent to play at their own pace, because it becomes mandatory to play at the pace of the dev cycle, if you want to experience the content.
The game changes from a hidden grind (most games are, some more hidden than others) to a count-down grind, which feel like pressure. People want to get away from the everyday pressure if playing. This produces a paradox, and people will stop enjoying the game.
End of story, they will avoid the stress that is the result of the new content.
Not really… every MMO other has a back story… I dont know if you played GW1 but I am going to use that as an example. Before the time when you start playing Gw1 there are a lot of stuff that happened. You had the 3 guild wars. You had humans invasion and conquering of Ascalon from the Charr etc… You start playing the game after these events and are unable to take part. How is that any different then joining Gw2 today and never getting the opportunity to take part in the motlen alliance invasion? it isnt, it just becomes back story to your experiance nothing else.
Its not a problem just like in gw1 it wasnt a problem that we never get to take part in the original invasion of ascalon.
This makes no sense. You are talking of a background story, of lore, which is essential to build a world that is believable. It is everywhere around you, as it is part of why you are in the mystical world.
Tell me, what part of, for example, the molten alliance invasion has become lore, an epic event that has shaped the world so drastically, that future content is build on it.
We have 2 npcs left from that, but surely, the game is not building up on these former events.
The living story is mostly just trashing out fire and forget content, that has no influx on the bigger picture.
Thats why they dont really question quality of it, because, why bother with that when itll be gone anyway in 2 weeks.
Whatever they make, and i mean whatever be it biggest BS ever, will end up ingame, 2 weeks cycle doesnt really forgive and alows rethinking and we can all witness other parts of the game are hurting badly.
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
Players like to play. At their own pace. MMOs offer content, you can explore at your own pace. Normally, Devs add stuff, so there is more content you can discover at your own pace.
One time events are rare and between in other MMO’s for a reason, they annoy people who can not participate.
Making a whole game dependend on one time events (call it Living Story) destroys most players intent to play at their own pace, because it becomes mandatory to play at the pace of the dev cycle, if you want to experience the content.
The game changes from a hidden grind (most games are, some more hidden than others) to a count-down grind, which feel like pressure. People want to get away from the everyday pressure if playing. This produces a paradox, and people will stop enjoying the game.
End of story, they will avoid the stress that is the result of the new content.
Not really… every MMO other has a back story… I dont know if you played GW1 but I am going to use that as an example. Before the time when you start playing Gw1 there are a lot of stuff that happened. You had the 3 guild wars. You had humans invasion and conquering of Ascalon from the Charr etc… You start playing the game after these events and are unable to take part. How is that any different then joining Gw2 today and never getting the opportunity to take part in the motlen alliance invasion? it isnt, it just becomes back story to your experiance nothing else.
Its not a problem just like in gw1 it wasnt a problem that we never get to take part in the original invasion of ascalon.
This makes no sense. You are talking of a background story, of lore, which is essential to build a world that is believable. It is everywhere around you, as it is part of why you are in the mystical world.
Tell me, what part of, for example, the molten alliance invasion has become lore, an epic event that has shaped the world so drastically, that future content is build on it.
We have 2 npcs left from that, but surely, the game is not building up on these former events.
The living story is mostly just trashing out fire and forget content, that has no influx on the bigger picture.
There’s in game lore, and then there’s the memory of an event, that becomes a personal sort of lore. I was there when the Karka invaded Southsun island. That lives on in my memory. I can talk about and share it.
Lore isn’t something you do, it’s something that was. The Karka invasion definitely was.
You bring up the example of the molten alliance, and say that’s not lore, but they’ve returned. It’s pretty clear to me that Scarlet got them together, probably so they could combine their technologies and she could steal the weapon.
I don’t know if you talked to the NPC, but there was a Durmond Priory NPC that had a theory that there was no way the charr and dredge would ever ally of their own accord. That was part of it. Now Scarlet appears. She was obviously using them.
They’re back in invasions, so that actually happened and there they are.
Players like to play. At their own pace. MMOs offer content, you can explore at your own pace. Normally, Devs add stuff, so there is more content you can discover at your own pace.
One time events are rare and between in other MMO’s for a reason, they annoy people who can not participate.
Making a whole game dependend on one time events (call it Living Story) destroys most players intent to play at their own pace, because it becomes mandatory to play at the pace of the dev cycle, if you want to experience the content.
The game changes from a hidden grind (most games are, some more hidden than others) to a count-down grind, which feel like pressure. People want to get away from the everyday pressure if playing. This produces a paradox, and people will stop enjoying the game.
End of story, they will avoid the stress that is the result of the new content.
Not really… every MMO other has a back story… I dont know if you played GW1 but I am going to use that as an example. Before the time when you start playing Gw1 there are a lot of stuff that happened. You had the 3 guild wars. You had humans invasion and conquering of Ascalon from the Charr etc… You start playing the game after these events and are unable to take part. How is that any different then joining Gw2 today and never getting the opportunity to take part in the motlen alliance invasion? it isnt, it just becomes back story to your experiance nothing else.
Its not a problem just like in gw1 it wasnt a problem that we never get to take part in the original invasion of ascalon.
This makes no sense. You are talking of a background story, of lore, which is essential to build a world that is believable. It is everywhere around you, as it is part of why you are in the mystical world.
Tell me, what part of, for example, the molten alliance invasion has become lore, an epic event that has shaped the world so drastically, that future content is build on it.
We have 2 npcs left from that, but surely, the game is not building up on these former events.
The living story is mostly just trashing out fire and forget content, that has no influx on the bigger picture.
There’s in game lore, and then there’s the memory of an event, that becomes a personal sort of lore. I was there when the Karka invaded Southsun island. That lives on in my memory. I can talk about and share it.
Lore isn’t something you do, it’s something that was. The Karka invasion definitely was.
You bring up the example of the molten alliance, and say that’s not lore, but they’ve returned. It’s pretty clear to me that Scarlet got them together, probably so they could combine their technologies and she could steal the weapon.
I don’t know if you talked to the NPC, but there was a Durmond Priory NPC that had a theory that there was no way the charr and dredge would ever ally of their own accord. That was part of it. Now Scarlet appears. She was obviously using them.
They’re back in invasions, so that actually happened and there they are.
I was there at the karka event. And it was exactly that. An event which gave me some nice loot, especially the bag (as I got a random exotic).
It is forgotten by most, and has no real impact on anything. A one time event, not lore.
Players like to play. At their own pace. MMOs offer content, you can explore at your own pace. Normally, Devs add stuff, so there is more content you can discover at your own pace.
One time events are rare and between in other MMO’s for a reason, they annoy people who can not participate.
Making a whole game dependend on one time events (call it Living Story) destroys most players intent to play at their own pace, because it becomes mandatory to play at the pace of the dev cycle, if you want to experience the content.
The game changes from a hidden grind (most games are, some more hidden than others) to a count-down grind, which feel like pressure. People want to get away from the everyday pressure if playing. This produces a paradox, and people will stop enjoying the game.
End of story, they will avoid the stress that is the result of the new content.
Not really… every MMO other has a back story… I dont know if you played GW1 but I am going to use that as an example. Before the time when you start playing Gw1 there are a lot of stuff that happened. You had the 3 guild wars. You had humans invasion and conquering of Ascalon from the Charr etc… You start playing the game after these events and are unable to take part. How is that any different then joining Gw2 today and never getting the opportunity to take part in the motlen alliance invasion? it isnt, it just becomes back story to your experiance nothing else.
Its not a problem just like in gw1 it wasnt a problem that we never get to take part in the original invasion of ascalon.
This makes no sense. You are talking of a background story, of lore, which is essential to build a world that is believable. It is everywhere around you, as it is part of why you are in the mystical world.
Tell me, what part of, for example, the molten alliance invasion has become lore, an epic event that has shaped the world so drastically, that future content is build on it.
We have 2 npcs left from that, but surely, the game is not building up on these former events.
The living story is mostly just trashing out fire and forget content, that has no influx on the bigger picture.
There’s in game lore, and then there’s the memory of an event, that becomes a personal sort of lore. I was there when the Karka invaded Southsun island. That lives on in my memory. I can talk about and share it.
Lore isn’t something you do, it’s something that was. The Karka invasion definitely was.
You bring up the example of the molten alliance, and say that’s not lore, but they’ve returned. It’s pretty clear to me that Scarlet got them together, probably so they could combine their technologies and she could steal the weapon.
I don’t know if you talked to the NPC, but there was a Durmond Priory NPC that had a theory that there was no way the charr and dredge would ever ally of their own accord. That was part of it. Now Scarlet appears. She was obviously using them.
They’re back in invasions, so that actually happened and there they are.
I was there at the karka event. And it was exactly that. An event which gave me some nice loot, especially the bag (as I got a random exotic).
It is forgotten by most, and has no real impact on anything. A one time event, not lore.
What makes it “not lore”. The karka queen’s stone body is still there. You personally weren’t impressed. It didn’t make an impression on you. I’ve seen people that loved it on the forums though.
It’s still lore. I’m not sure how you can justify saying it’s not.
Yes I am sure given the opportunity we’d all buy a time machine in order to get filthy rich not realizing the result would be complete collapse of the world economy in a single instance.
Time machine? I didn’t say nothin’ ‘bout that. I’d say its more in-line with liking a particular part of a video game that I really enjoyed and being able to re-experience it any time I wish, which is what I consider to be a huge strength about video games.
Sure MA was actually playable content which we who were there played. Its now back story for players who join today no different then any back story in any mmo.Why dont feel bad for never playing through back story of MMOs why should this be any different?
Because those “backstories” you reference are text and lore that no one’s experienced. The LS is actual content and gameplay that’s been deleted from the game that new and returning players don’t get to experience. If I had a great time with a part of a game, I’d want someone else to have that great time as well, and I’d be more than willing to slightly disregard having a “living world” if it meant that someone else could have that same great time I had, and if they’re having a great time now then I’m sure they’d have a lovely time playing all (or most) of the stuff they missed.
Regarding MF and AR: Can’t say I’m looking forward to the fact that I’m gonna have to go through a lot of old content just to get to the new, but maybe I can find a group that keeps “rerolling” the fractal until we get to the goodies.
Yes I am sure given the opportunity we’d all buy a time machine in order to get filthy rich not realizing the result would be complete collapse of the world economy in a single instance.
Time machine? I didn’t say nothin’ ‘bout that. I’d say its more in-line with liking a particular part of a video game that I really enjoyed and being able to re-experience it any time I wish, which is what I consider to be a huge strength about video games.
Sure MA was actually playable content which we who were there played. Its now back story for players who join today no different then any back story in any mmo.Why dont feel bad for never playing through back story of MMOs why should this be any different?
Because those “backstories” you reference are text and lore that no one’s experienced. The LS is actual content and gameplay that’s been deleted from the game that new and returning players don’t get to experience. If I had a great time with a part of a game, I’d want someone else to have that great time as well, and I’d be more than willing to slightly disregard having a “living world” if it meant that someone else could have that same great time I had, and if they’re having a great time now then I’m sure they’d have a lovely time playing all (or most) of the stuff they missed.
Regarding MF and AR: Can’t say I’m looking forward to the fact that I’m gonna have to go through a lot of old content just to get to the new, but maybe I can find a group that keeps “rerolling” the fractal until we get to the goodies.
Lore isn’t necessarily something written in stone, or experienced. In fact, Lore doesn’t even have to be published. When you write a book or story, you often create a detailed back story and you don’t want to show all of it in the book. It would bore most people to tears. It’s there for the author to draw on to create the work.
There’s plenty of Guild Wars lore, I’m certain that’s not in the game at all, or not yet in the game.
Saying that someone can’t experience it now, so it’s not lore is probably not the best definition of lore.
If everything becomes lore than nothing is.
How about bringing things in context, like:
A nice backstory of the deepsea dragon forcing the karka and kraits to leave their domiciles. Giving a real backstory to the karka event might have included it into lore.
Otherwise it is just a random place, where something has happened without any real context or impact. It was just too encapsulated, a bubble of an event too small to offer any importance.
Lore is the bigger picture. Killing some random Mobs on an island where nothing happens is not.
If everything becomes lore than nothing is.
How about bringing things in context, like:
A nice backstory of the deepsea dragon forcing the karka and kraits to leave their domiciles. Giving a real backstory to the karka event might have included it into lore.
Otherwise it is just a random place, where something has happened without any real context or impact. It was just too encapsulated, a bubble of an event too small to offer any importance.
Lore is the bigger picture. Killing some random Mobs on an island where nothing happens is not.
Lore isn’t the bigger picture…you’re just calling it that. Lore is, at it’s most basic level, background information…no more no less.
Some of that appears in game and some of it doesn’t.
If everything becomes lore than nothing is.
How about bringing things in context, like:
A nice backstory of the deepsea dragon forcing the karka and kraits to leave their domiciles. Giving a real backstory to the karka event might have included it into lore.
Otherwise it is just a random place, where something has happened without any real context or impact. It was just too encapsulated, a bubble of an event too small to offer any importance.
Lore is the bigger picture. Killing some random Mobs on an island where nothing happens is not.
Lore isn’t the bigger picture…you’re just calling it that. Lore is, at it’s most basic level, background information…no more no less.
Some of that appears in game and some of it doesn’t.
At least with your definition, we have an excuse for all writers at anet for their lousy story telling in GW2.
