One More living Story before I give up.

One More living Story before I give up.

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Posted by: armaduras.8972

armaduras.8972

I’m in the same boat as a lot of Guild Wars 1 players which have stuck with Guild Wars 2 because of Guild Wars 1’s structured and MORE THAN WELL thought out story. By structured, I mean it was good storytelling based on you (the player, the ‘Hero’/’Antihero) and around the structured world which was the Guild Wars Universe.

I think Guild Wars 2 started off great and the first Living World content releases were beautiful. Post – Heart of Thorns was the turning point where the story of the game goes past in fast forward.

I’m not going to sit here and write a huge post. I read a lot of books, so I am probably biased on the storytelling in general since I get the good stuff from literature which requires no game development integrated into it. However, I can’t be the only one that is absolutely disheartened by the pace of the story in this game as of late, the absolute obsession with the love life of characters that don’t matter to me… and the overall lack of centralization around the main character (you). I really hope they don’t screw up Balthazar— he’s always been a prick, but to turn him into something evil is just lazy storytelling. Balthazar be praised, have a good night.

Feel the Flames of Balthazar; Bask in the ever-presence of his glory!
Gilded Grimoire[MAGI]. Casual Guild www.gw2magi.com

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Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086

Konig Des Todes.2086

You… you’re saying that GW1 was great storytelling, but think Season 1 was beautiful?

Season 1’s storytelling was kitten compared to GW1 and Season 3. Season 3 has definitely been an improvement, though not without its (sometimes glaring like the Lazarus reveal or Braham’s attitude in episode 3) issues, but they’ve nothing but improved since Season 1. Heart of Thorns’ biggest issue was rate of story progression and amount of content, but its storytelling itself was fairly well done – better than both Season 1 and Season 2 (on par, IMO, to personal story but with different sets of pros and cons between the two).

I think you’ve not bothered to read the dialogue and understand what his words in the final instance means. Balthazar didn’t come off as evil, just apathetic. And there’s a huge difference there – and I’d say, with Balthazar having a bad temper (if not worse) since no later than Factions (see: Kaolai’s story), his character development is not unfound. He very clearly states that something happened to him in the past since we last knew of him, and that something was enough to demoralize him and turn him apathetic.

That “something” was left a mystery in typical “making far too many mysteries” fashion. But the only bad thing about this release was the unanswered questions of “why did Balthazar pretend to be Lazarus, and why did he hire non-humans when he was previously stated to be in favor of only humans?”

And, uhm, I’m not seeing an “obsession with the love life” of any characters. We’ve not dealt with love in the forced dialogue since Season 2. What little there was in Heart of Thorns and Season 3 has all been optional dialogue, with at most hints in the forced dialogue.

Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.

One More living Story before I give up.

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Posted by: Chadramar.8156

Chadramar.8156

and the overall lack of centralization around the main character (you).

This is the only criticism I really agree with, and have been disappointed by ever since vanilla. I’m sick of the drama-llamaing around the “biconics”. I’m aggravated that my character would just casually throw away her literal life’s (sylvari main) work i.e. the Pact at a time when it badly needs her after the devastations of HoT. The only time I felt that “This is my story” since the end of vanilla plot was during some sylvari-specific dialog moments in HoT and recently in the Caladbolg follow-up. If I mained my charr or norn, it’d be even worse — I don’t know if they get anything race-specific at all once the first chapter of the personal story ends? At least a sylvari gets their Wyld Hunt mentioned once in a blue moon. There’s so much potential for interesting stories that are either specific to or at least heavily influenced by what you’re playing as, and it all lies fallow.

Still, overall I think the quality of the Living Story has improved since the first seasons, though that may be odd for me to say since I dislike many of the NPCs so much at this point. :p For one, the return of voice acting for the player character means we actually get to participate in conversations again, which is pretty huge. It’s still not “my story” by any means, but at least I’m part of it again.

One More living Story before I give up.

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Posted by: Rognik.2579

Rognik.2579

Well, the good news is that there’s only one more Living Story chapter to go in this season, so at least you’ll see it to its end. I also wouldn’t necessarily call Balthazar “evil”, even if he is becoming an antagonist, as the first thing he does is attack Primordus. It’s only because we’re finally understanding the ramifications of killing all these dragons that we try to stop him at all.

Now, not everyone is going to enjoy all the elements of the story, but to completely ignore the lives of our companions is also bad storytelling. At least when Kasmeer and Marjory are having their lover’s spat, you’re busy collecting the reflecting dishes, and everything doesn’t grind to a halt while they hash out their differences. If you just sat there to listen to their dispute, that was your decision, but the dialogue was designed to be ambient while you run around doing other things.

One More living Story before I give up.

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Posted by: Chadramar.8156

Chadramar.8156

Good point about giving the player something to do while the NPCs drama at each other. That was well done.

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Posted by: armaduras.8972

armaduras.8972

You… you’re saying that GW1 was great storytelling, but think Season 1 was beautiful?

I had just played GW1’s story through again two weeks ago. From Prophecies to Nightfall at least. I read a bunch of the side lore as I was doing it. It has a better-constructed story, with a solid base that never contradicts itself.

Season 1 was beautiful, as it was changing the world and the content was interactive and progressive— not just for the player but the entire continent of Tyria. The direction of the game Pre-HoT was great and the story was very well written.

Now the game is so full of fluff that when something serious does happen, it doesn’t even feel like it should matter. Eir died? Who cares!? Did you see that new Quaggan Backpack on the Gemstore? You were probably wearing it when Eir died. Yep, kneeling over a corpse on your barely dressed female character, outfit died pink with a pink quggan on your back. Oh so serious.

Feel the Flames of Balthazar; Bask in the ever-presence of his glory!
Gilded Grimoire[MAGI]. Casual Guild www.gw2magi.com

One More living Story before I give up.

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Posted by: Randulf.7614

Randulf.7614

S1 was generally regarded by the community as the worst written story in the entire franchise, imo even worse than Factions which plenty of GW1 purists still cringe at today. I agree S1 was great in the way it change the world at times and some wonderful gameplay moments, but the story itself was just dire. One single sylvari engineer learnt pretty much everything there is to know, suddenly uniting several villainous factions and blew up LA with heavily advanced tech. Each “episode” barely had any story either and there are still unanswered questions from it which haven’t been tied up yet after all this time.

S2 saw an improvement and whilst HoT was bitterly disappointing due to its brevity and vast missing chunks, S3 has again been another improvement (one not without huge flaws mind you).

I remember Prophecies and Factions being rather poor, esp Prophecies which jumped around a lot to fit so much in. Nightfall and EOTN were where the jump to quality began. Where GW1 worked was because it was packaged as one big lump and you could judge it as a whole. What hurts GW2 the most, is the episodic nature – they are trying too hard to simulate TV storytelling with a blockbuster feel and that simply is the wrong medium for video games.

As for the gemstore fluff..well GW1 is hardly innocent in the wacky side of things, although I agree GW2 has lost its identity more because of it. However, it is irrelevant to the overall story.

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Posted by: Moonyeti.3296

Moonyeti.3296

Season 1 was fun to play, as there was always something new. Story wise though it was horrible. Just one random idea after another thrown around every 2 weeks or so. It only made sense at the end when we killed scarlet and woke up Mordremoth, and by that point it just felt like they could have gotten to that same story point without all the convoluted mess along the way. Season 3 still has it’s issues with storytelling, but it is getting better. Certainly the presentation of the story is better than it has ever been, but there is still room for improvement. Anet now needs to improve the actual story itself.

One More living Story before I give up.

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Posted by: Chadramar.8156

Chadramar.8156

The only part of LS1 I liked was the first appearance of the Zephyrites. That was a really fun time, I still remember fighting RL vertigo while aspect-jumping around the Sanctum way up in the air. It was whimsical and unique and gave us a glimpse of a different human culture. The rest? Yeah, that was garbage IMO. Scarlet was the worst thing in the game so far, and since her influence was still felt in LS2 with Taimi fangirling all over her, that dragged my opinion of LS2 down as well.

Certainly the presentation of the story is better than it has ever been, but there is still room for improvement. Anet now needs to improve the actual story itself.

I think that’s a very good way to put it.

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Posted by: GreyFeathers.8175

GreyFeathers.8175

In my opinion they are pulling more and more away from what kept me a loyal fan in Guild Wars I to what they are currently doing with the LS in Guild Wars 2. At least they are going back and mentioning our own characters and I’m seeing some funny tid bits and banter being thrown in now much always gets a small laugh when I play. I would like to see something about our races though as a few players have mentioned. I would honestly like to see more " personal story " involved in the L.S content where our Charr get our War Bands back together or deal with politics in the Black Citadel, the Norn go on a personal spiritual hunt, The Sylvari tend to the wounds of the Pale Tree or even search out other trees and the soundless. Maybe she can be dying and another will need to take her place. The Asura can find all sorts of things to do and discover with Rata Novus in play and the humans have no lack of things to do with a war between them and the centaurs as well as their own political messes. Would it be that hard to design content that included things such as this in the LS ?

Wouldn’t that give players a chance to experience the character they made much better then being forced down a single path which doesn’t really take into consideration any decisions they made while creating the race and character they enjoyed ? Combine the two in a way where " personal story and Living story " meet to push the game forward and encourage players to team up since a Charr will experience something different then an Asura and so on. You see other stories based on things you have already decided and the living story influences but it needs to remain yours and not something everybody and their brother sees. If that is going to continue to be the case then why decide on a particular race at all.

The LS has improved but this latest twist of a GOD and letting the Dragons live is indeed pretty lazy and I’m going to call them out on this. You mean you can’t really think of another baddie to throw in the game and decide to just drop in a " GOD " since that says our characters are now the biggest and most powerful thing in Tyria ? Really ? With all the lore in the game you can’t find something which doesn’t have to be a monster or all powerful being ? The Pale Tree suffering from her wounds needs a rare herb found only in remote areas ending in a guardian that needs heroes like ours to beat it. The norn quest to help aid one of their spirits returning to the world. All sorts of things we can do aside from beating on a god. I mean how do you one up a god ? Might make things more interesting to see who or what throws a wrench into the workings of our world as we go out and try to fix them. Instead of we just killed a god so nothing we can’t do, who cares what comes next.

Honor is limited only by the limitations that we place upon ourselves.

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Posted by: Aidal.4901

Aidal.4901

I had just played GW1’s story through again two weeks ago. From Prophecies to Nightfall at least. I read a bunch of the side lore as I was doing it. It has a better-constructed story, with a solid base that never contradicts itself.

Season 1 was beautiful, as it was changing the world and the content was interactive and progressive— not just for the player but the entire continent of Tyria. The direction of the game Pre-HoT was great and the story was very well written.

Now the game is so full of fluff that when something serious does happen, it doesn’t even feel like it should matter. Eir died? Who cares!? Did you see that new Quaggan Backpack on the Gemstore? You were probably wearing it when Eir died. Yep, kneeling over a corpse on your barely dressed female character, outfit died pink with a pink quggan on your back. Oh so serious.

Cosmetic choices =/= bad story telling dude, that’s weak. You can’t blame the devs for giving people options to wear whatever. In addition to that, pre-HoT story telling probably requires significantly longer programming time.

Guild wars 2 has the pacing of the story is a bit faster, which bothers me a tad. But the differences are not as yuuuge as you’re making it out to be, that’s just fan-talk. The focus of guild wars 1 seemed very “off of you” as in you’re a secondary character, a best, at worse you’re an extra in the LOTR fight scene.

I enjoy the fact that my character is more centralized now. Trehearne’s death was legitimately the best thing that happened in this game.

One More living Story before I give up.

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Posted by: Mickey Frogeater.1470

Mickey Frogeater.1470

Hell at this rate, Queen Jenna was probably killed by Lyssa and Lyssa is now* posing as her. Melandru has killed the Pale Tree and has taken her place and Dwayna, Kormir and Grenth are pulling the strings of the Pact.

I say that if Melandru is the Avatar of the Pale Tree that would explain her not wanting non-Sylvari characters looking at The All.

She wouldn’t want someone preventing the Gods from claiming the Elder Dragons’ powers due to a desire to preserve Tyria now would she?

As for the Pale Tree being dead the Pale Tree is likely quite fine and is completely silent as one would expect from a mere Blighting Tree freed by Melandru.

If this is all the case we may have to assault Tangle Root(which likely has white flowers everywhere thanks to the Goddess of Nature) to kill Melandru once and for all.

Scarlet looking into The All led to Taimi discovering that we can’t keep wiping out Elder Dragons so it seems her statement that Tyria needs her was accurate even if her new master Mordremoth was killed before Taimi could make her discovery.

As for Jenna and Anise being Lyssa. A lot of players suspect that’s the case. Her actions will lead to us making a move towards Elona in the 2nd Expansion to save Kralkatorrik(who’s World Boss Battle would be all about knocking him unconscious).

Grenth could very well be Mr. E himself and if he is I hope he’s a good guy unlike the other Gods. He might even help us stop Braham from accidentally destroying Tyria(even if he has to completely absorb all of Jormag’s Magic into himself to do it).

Dwayna, Dhuum and Balthazar are likely now located in their respective Realms of the Gods where we’ll kill them before heading over to Abaddon’s Mouth and opening the door to the Realm of Torment which will serve as the setting of the 3rd Expansion where we save Kormir from Menzies.

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Posted by: Darcwolf.6817

Darcwolf.6817

You… you’re saying that GW1 was great storytelling, but think Season 1 was beautiful?

Season 1’s storytelling was kitten compared to GW1 and Season 3.

LOLWUT!???

I can tell you clearly didn’t play season 1, season 1 involved living story taking more than an hour to finish each chapter. Season 3 has been nothing but lazy story writing, it’s not bad, but it lacks more than 5 minutes of thought to actually put it together. They are spending far more time trying to figure out what achievements they can pack into a little map than they are telling an actual story. I miss the cutscene stories, the instanced areas, especially with the last 2 there has been like 2 instanced stories per, the rest is just some talking with Taimi over a radio in open world. Plus 3 months in between each story, really think you are confusing this game with something else.

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Posted by: nsochoa.6589

nsochoa.6589

I disagree, the story has been getting better and better. They’re humanizing other characters, and the player character is supposed to be kind of vague. Its just MMO convention i guess. Different strokes for different folks though, I think Harry Potter and Twilight is stupid but I can’t argue against their wild success, people just like different things. I love the story, antagonizing the human gods is super interesting and a good way to re-purpose existing lore. It’s not lazy, one bit. It’s very creative. Blurring the line between good and evil always made for a much more profound story.

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Posted by: Inculpatus cedo.9234

Inculpatus cedo.9234

I suppose it did take more than an hour to find all those mementos, build signposts, light campfires and help the wounded.

Of course, for some, it takes more than an hour to find the Oakhearts (or whatever they are called). /shrug

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Posted by: Sartharina.3542

Sartharina.3542

GW1 had good storytelling? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxmkAoLC6_4

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Posted by: Randulf.7614

Randulf.7614

You… you’re saying that GW1 was great storytelling, but think Season 1 was beautiful?

Season 1’s storytelling was kitten compared to GW1 and Season 3.

LOLWUT!???

I can tell you clearly didn’t play season 1, season 1 involved living story taking more than an hour to finish each chapter. Season 3 has been nothing but lazy story writing, it’s not bad, but it lacks more than 5 minutes of thought to actually put it together. They are spending far more time trying to figure out what achievements they can pack into a little map than they are telling an actual story. I miss the cutscene stories, the instanced areas, especially with the last 2 there has been like 2 instanced stories per, the rest is just some talking with Taimi over a radio in open world. Plus 3 months in between each story, really think you are confusing this game with something else.

An entire month (i think it was a month) was devoted to fixing signposts in Season 1. There was very little good storytelling in S1 and the overwhelming feedback at the time was this (there were obvious people who did like it though). S1 was long, drawn out and left huge gaping holes some of which have never been filled. The gameplay was where S1 got it right, not the story writing.

I really would not call out Konig though. His knowledge of the game, the lore, the story surpasses most players by a considerable margin…

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Posted by: Illconceived Was Na.9781

Illconceived Was Na.9781

Season 1’s storytelling was kitten compared to GW1 and Season 3. Season 3 has definitely been an improvement,

According to you. For me, GW1 storytelling was largely longwinded, predictable, repetitive, and dull. I liked Season 1 better (as a story). And story 3 has some great moments , but it has some lousy half-hours too.

Anyhow, I really don’t expect “great” storytelling from ANet — it’s pretty hard to manage that and appeal to the bulk of the community, and keep things interesting in terms of gameplay. I expect them to keep us guessing about what comes next, to include some humor and local color + lore, and to keep offering us epic adventures and foes. And, despite my dislike of LS2 (or GW1) stories, they do well with that.

John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”