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Posted by: kiwiburner.2186

kiwiburner.2186

The Mad King that visits Tyria in Halloween has always been played as comic relief. A figure of fun, totally cooky, sadist-as-humor character.

Having spent a bit of time in the Labyrinth recently, it’s struck me how much the Mad King/Bloody Prince repartee plays violence against women as a joke.

Does this make anyone else uncomfortable?

(I’m kind of hoping that bringing this to anet’s attention will encourage them to actually update the Halloween content/storyline rather than rolling out the same misogynistic stuff year on year…)

“poopsock made it past the filters!” -stinkypants.8419

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Posted by: Sankofa Jimiyu.1567

Sankofa Jimiyu.1567

I actually don’t see it as an issue.
Guild Wars lore is filled with relevant, female characters, both good and bad, that are far more important than 2 characters playing off dark comedy.
Thorn’s legacy of murder and treachery is what got him killed in the first place and and we celebrate him because if we can put up with his very toned down bad behavior, we get rewarded.
His dark humor is the least he can impose on us.
He could always ask Scarlet to come by and partake in the fun. There would be some interesting new content. Her Majesty, Queen Scarlet Thorn.

“Look like the innocent flower, but be the Obaba under’t.”

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Posted by: saventis.1485

saventis.1485

I actually don’t see it as an issue.
Guild Wars lore is filled with relevant, female characters, both good and bad, that are far more important than 2 characters playing off dark comedy.
Thorn’s legacy of murder and treachery is what got him killed in the first place and and we celebrate him because if we can put up with his very toned down bad behavior, we get rewarded.
His dark humor is the least he can impose on us.
He could always ask Scarlet to come by and partake in the fun. There would be some interesting new content. Her Majesty, Queen Scarlet Thorn.

Well said
And interesting concept eh
Queen Scarlet Thorn work so well on so many levels
Shes Mad like the king
shes a plant so thorn makes sense
and scarlet thorn describes he phisically as well as her attitude:
A threat that likes to be noticed

but please dont replace the king hes been part of the lore for so long (not the only resaon i want him to stay but a big part)

all i can say is your playing a game where you kill “bad guys” indiscriminately
this game is one of the few that actually takes all groups of people and treats them equally.

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Posted by: kiwiburner.2186

kiwiburner.2186

I really like the idea of Queen Scarlet Thorn.

“poopsock made it past the filters!” -stinkypants.8419

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Posted by: Imperios.2543

Imperios.2543

The Mad King that visits Tyria in Halloween has always been played as comic relief. A figure of fun, totally cooky, sadist-as-humor character.

Having spent a bit of time in the Labyrinth recently, it’s struck me how much the Mad King/Bloody Prince repartee plays violence against women as a joke.

Does this make anyone else uncomfortable?

(I’m kind of hoping that bringing this to anet’s attention will encourage them to actually update the Halloween content/storyline rather than rolling out the same misogynistic stuff year on year…)

Wha? Why?

The Mad King is a villain. It’s not like his actions are seen as justified by the game. So what’s the problem?

I do wonder why both Oswald and Edrick have English names, though. Isn’t Kryta Italian?

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Posted by: lordkrall.7241

lordkrall.7241

Do people really take the banter in the labyrinth as jokes?

I take it as a rather serious conversation between two people that despise each other.

And no, they don’t glorify nor joke about violence against women, quite the opposite I would say, seeing as we are made very aware that they are both mentally ill.

Krall Bloodsword – Mesmer
Krall Peterson – Warrior
Piken Square

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Posted by: Bolbo Baggins.8594

Bolbo Baggins.8594

Let me guess, and next you want the Svanir censored out of the story because of Jora they dispise women. Little oversensitive in my opinion. If it is within the good context of the story/lore, whats the problem? Do the villains have to go fluffy now? Without any character? Scarlet Opressed and deccimated whole civilisations, the Mad King is a good guy in comparison. And she did it for sports, she made fun of it all the time, right?

(edited by Bolbo Baggins.8594)

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Posted by: kokiman.2364

kokiman.2364

The Mad King that visits Tyria in Halloween has always been played as comic relief. A figure of fun, totally cooky, sadist-as-humor character.

Having spent a bit of time in the Labyrinth recently, it’s struck me how much the Mad King/Bloody Prince repartee plays violence against women as a joke.

Does this make anyone else uncomfortable?

(I’m kind of hoping that bringing this to anet’s attention will encourage them to actually update the Halloween content/storyline rather than rolling out the same misogynistic stuff year on year…)

No because it is just a videogame.

GuildWars 2

Currently playing Heart of Thorns.

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Posted by: Arianhod.3485

Arianhod.3485

Isn’t Kryta Italian?

What do you mean by this, and what gave you this idea?

It’s a-me, Aria!

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Posted by: mexay.3902

mexay.3902

tumblr is this way

Violence is violence and humour is humour. Just because something makes you uncomfortable doesn’t warrant it’s removal from the game or it’s adjustment. Nor is this misogynistic.

Should we now make all female characters and NPCs immune to damage because it might “trigger” people? No, because that would be silly.

Part of the Mad King’s narrative is that he’s totally bat kitten crazy and does stuff for laughs. It’s what makes him an interesting character, because he’s such a stark contrast against Tyria’s world.

To be honest I think Tyria could use a little more dark humour.

noice

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Posted by: Copestetic.5174

Copestetic.5174

No. GW2 is already a lighter game compared to its predecessor. I for one, do not want to see it getting into Disney PG territory.

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Posted by: Sankofa Jimiyu.1567

Sankofa Jimiyu.1567

I really like the idea of Queen Scarlet Thorn.

Scarlet and Mad King are now my OTP.
Next year, we would have a macabre ceremony, and with Edrick banished to his box for being a brat.

“Look like the innocent flower, but be the Obaba under’t.”

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Posted by: Tuomir.1830

Tuomir.1830

“What’s black and blue and stuffed in a box? My son!”

“What’s the difference between a sylvari and a potted plant? Potted plants don’t scream when you cut their legs off and shove them in dirt!”

Mad King thorn is not a sympathetic character. If he wasn’t safely contained, we wouldn’t be laughing at his antics.

Only fools and heroes charge in without a plan.

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Posted by: Yumiko Ishida.3769

Yumiko Ishida.3769

Oh and lets not forget that Mad King Thorn is Queen Jennah’s Great… Great… great… great… great… great.. grand.. daddy!

Yumiko Emi Ishida 80 Ele, Hikari Kyoko Ishida 80 Guard TC-NA. Active RPer of NA megaserver.

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Posted by: Tuomir.1830

Tuomir.1830

Actually, Jennah is a descendant of Thorn’s uncle – King Oswald’s line died out when he was killed. Even though the deaths of him and his son weren’t quite the end…

Only fools and heroes charge in without a plan.

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Posted by: BrotherBelial.3094

BrotherBelial.3094

“What’s black and blue and stuffed in a box? My son!”

“What’s the difference between a sylvari and a potted plant? Potted plants don’t scream when you cut their legs off and shove them in dirt!”

Mad King thorn is not a sympathetic character. If he wasn’t safely contained, we wouldn’t be laughing at his antics.

You made me laugh. Thank you. Thorn is the resin I like Halloween.

Best birthday ever.

i5 4690K @ 3.5Mhz|8GB HyperX Savage 1600mHz|MSI H81M-E34|MSI GTX 960 Gaming 2GB|
|Seasonic S12G 650W|Win10 Pro X64| Corsair Spec 03 Case|

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Posted by: assasin oates.3018

assasin oates.3018

Tumblr please. A character depicted as amoral, insane and down right sadistic does something terrible? Shocking! What’s even more shocking is that you see it as misogynistic. He slaughters women, men, children, animals and has committed countless genocides for his own amusement, but let’s forget about most of the atrocities and focus on the females here, makes total sense!

I’m sorry you’re “triggered” by this but c’mon it’s a fictional character who’s depicted as bad. What do you expect a villain to be if they don’t do anything evil or wrong?

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Posted by: Zaxares.5419

Zaxares.5419

Yeah, the whole point behind the storylines of Oswald and Edrick is that they are violent, reprehensible characters who totally deserved their brutal fates. They appear bumbling and amusing in their current incarnations, but if they had been around when our characters were alive, you can bet we the players would be leading crusades against them.

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Posted by: Electro.4173

Electro.4173

I might be forgetting some, but off the top of my head there’s one single conversation in the Labyrinth between Thorn and Eddy that involves violence towards women specifically. And even then, its not ever implied they were killed BECAUSE they were women, they just become a few of hundreds of casualties to the pair of maniacs. I don’t see how its misogynistic at all given the circumstances of the characters. They’re both murdering psychopaths who kill any and all types.

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Posted by: jonatanen.1568

jonatanen.1568

just to give my opinion, I see the mad king as a bad joke on the english king Henry the 8th. who had around 6 wives and kill most if not all of them (sry if my english historie is bad). I hope this can give a new view on Mad King Thorn.

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Posted by: BilboBaggins.5620

BilboBaggins.5620

The Mad King that visits Tyria in Halloween has always been played as comic relief. A figure of fun, totally cooky, sadist-as-humor character.

Having spent a bit of time in the Labyrinth recently, it’s struck me how much the Mad King/Bloody Prince repartee plays violence against women as a joke.

Does this make anyone else uncomfortable?

(I’m kind of hoping that bringing this to anet’s attention will encourage them to actually update the Halloween content/storyline rather than rolling out the same misogynistic stuff year on year…)

The problem I have with your post (and honestly, it’s probably exacerbated by the endless barrage of domestic violence commercials) is that it’s always “violence against women”. There are men who suffer from domestic violence too. How about we end domestic violence period. And yes, I do believe jokes about domestic violence are in bad taste.

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Posted by: jcgreig.3620

jcgreig.3620

The Mad King that visits Tyria in Halloween has always been played as comic relief. A figure of fun, totally cooky, sadist-as-humor character.

Having spent a bit of time in the Labyrinth recently, it’s struck me how much the Mad King/Bloody Prince repartee plays violence against women as a joke.

Does this make anyone else uncomfortable?

(I’m kind of hoping that bringing this to anet’s attention will encourage them to actually update the Halloween content/storyline rather than rolling out the same misogynistic stuff year on year…)

The problem I have with your post (and honestly, it’s probably exacerbated by the endless barrage of domestic violence commercials) is that it’s always “violence against women”. There are men who suffer from domestic violence too. How about we end domestic violence period. And yes, I do believe jokes about domestic violence are in bad taste.

Your point is well-taken- domestic violence against men is something no one wants to talk about, yet it happens every day. However, violence against women has been “normalized” in our culture, which makes violence-against-women jokes (like the ones in this game) possible (and people can’t see what’s wrong with that, as evidenced by the above posts). If it had been the opposite, and the joke had been about sexual or domestic violence against men, it would have been highly uncomfortable (because it’s a taboo subject, which, as I’ve stated, is also a huge problem). The only exception I can think of is the trope of the domineering women with the rolling pin beating her submissive husband, which has been the subject of jokes/cartoons, etc (also not funny). But I haven’t seen that trope much in current media, and especially not in video games.

Anyway, I agree with the OP.

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Posted by: Tuomir.1830

Tuomir.1830

The Mad King that visits Tyria in Halloween has always been played as comic relief. A figure of fun, totally cooky, sadist-as-humor character.

Having spent a bit of time in the Labyrinth recently, it’s struck me how much the Mad King/Bloody Prince repartee plays violence against women as a joke.

Does this make anyone else uncomfortable?

(I’m kind of hoping that bringing this to anet’s attention will encourage them to actually update the Halloween content/storyline rather than rolling out the same misogynistic stuff year on year…)

The problem I have with your post (and honestly, it’s probably exacerbated by the endless barrage of domestic violence commercials) is that it’s always “violence against women”. There are men who suffer from domestic violence too. How about we end domestic violence period. And yes, I do believe jokes about domestic violence are in bad taste.

Your point is well-taken- domestic violence against men is something no one wants to talk about, yet it happens every day. However, violence against women has been “normalized” in our culture, which makes violence-against-women jokes (like the ones in this game) possible (and people can’t see what’s wrong with that, as evidenced by the above posts). If it had been the opposite, and the joke had been about sexual or domestic violence against men, it would have been highly uncomfortable (because it’s a taboo subject, which, as I’ve stated, is also a huge problem). The only exception I can think of is the trope of the domineering women with the rolling pin beating her submissive husband, which has been the subject of jokes/cartoons, etc (also not funny). But I haven’t seen that trope much in current media, and especially not in video games.

Anyway, I agree with the OP.

“What’s black and blue and stuffed in a box? My son!”

Yep, no jokes about abuse towards men or children at all, nope, nothing at all.

Only fools and heroes charge in without a plan.

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Posted by: crosknight.3041

crosknight.3041

honestly i think the joke was more centered around
Mad King Thorn: Besides, I was proud of you for that.
Bloody Prince Thorn: Really?
Mad King Thorn: No. You’ve always been a major disappointment.

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Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086

Konig Des Todes.2086

In Guild Wars 1, Thorn and his Lunatic Court were more about wacky antics first, with a hidden underlining of cruelty and apathy. This is what made Thorn and co. fun yet disturbing.

In Guild Wars 2, Thorn and his court are more about sinisterism, with a coating of laughs. Eddie is, however, just sadism – no jokes to him at all. This has made Thorn and co. a uncomfortable with a few laughs in-between.

It’s got little to nothing to do about “violence against women for laughs”. Thorn has become overall very dark. In GW1, sure we knew he skinned villages and taxed towns to mass starvation, but they were all presented as jokes – no one could really be absolutely certain that he actually did these things. In GW2, however, we get to see Thorn without that humor – the scavenger hunt for example. He beat women, killed his friends and family, torched towns and forced people to watch their loved ones burn alive, cut off entire villages’ hands, beheaded political enemies, etc. etc. And then plays it all off as a joke. Very different Thorns between each game. Like none of the original writers of Thorn from GW1 put any amount of effort into Thorn in GW2.

Thorn in GW2 is more of an all around kitten who plays his evilness off as a joke. And his evil goes FAR beyond just domestic violence.

Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.

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Posted by: saventis.1485

saventis.1485

The Mad King that visits Tyria in Halloween has always been played as comic relief. A figure of fun, totally cooky, sadist-as-humor character.

Having spent a bit of time in the Labyrinth recently, it’s struck me how much the Mad King/Bloody Prince repartee plays violence against women as a joke.

Does this make anyone else uncomfortable?

(I’m kind of hoping that bringing this to anet’s attention will encourage them to actually update the Halloween content/storyline rather than rolling out the same misogynistic stuff year on year…)

The problem I have with your post (and honestly, it’s probably exacerbated by the endless barrage of domestic violence commercials) is that it’s always “violence against women”. There are men who suffer from domestic violence too. How about we end domestic violence period. And yes, I do believe jokes about domestic violence are in bad taste.

Your point is well-taken- domestic violence against men is something no one wants to talk about, yet it happens every day. However, violence against women has been “normalized” in our culture, which makes violence-against-women jokes (like the ones in this game) possible (and people can’t see what’s wrong with that, as evidenced by the above posts). If it had been the opposite, and the joke had been about sexual or domestic violence against men, it would have been highly uncomfortable (because it’s a taboo subject, which, as I’ve stated, is also a huge problem). The only exception I can think of is the trope of the domineering women with the rolling pin beating her submissive husband, which has been the subject of jokes/cartoons, etc (also not funny). But I haven’t seen that trope much in current media, and especially not in video games.

Anyway, I agree with the OP.

Im sorry if you grew up with it.(not saying you did)
However at least in my country it is not “normalized” by any means
and even in this game it has not been “normalized”
I feel like this has been cause by that news piece recently that i would rather not get into a discussion about.
This is perhaps one of the most inclusive games on the market for women,men,the lgbt comunity.
complaining about jokes is really getting annoying
games are about confict? correct?
without conflict you lose the story
without the story the game often becomes meaningless
and if you want to play a meaningless game those exist!

(this isnt directed at you btw its just easier to write in this style)

TL:DR I Disagree. Please stop trying to take conflict away from games.

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Posted by: Tom.8029

Tom.8029

Games, just like any other type of entertainment such as movies, shows, and books, have characters with opinions that conflict with our own. Just because you don’t agree with something doesn’t mean someone else doesn’t and that it doesn’t exist. He’s called the Mad King for a reason. Does this mean that the developers believe and agree with what this character says or does? No. But it’s good to see how people who are different than us think and act. There are people in the world who behave similarly to just about any character in any form of entertainment in existence. These things need to be known; not shoved under a rug so we can pretend they don’t exist.

Is the game wrong for having characters like this? I don’t think so.

Primordial Dragons [Drgn]
Fort Aspenwood Elementalist

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Posted by: Zaklex.6308

Zaklex.6308

In Guild Wars 1, Thorn and his Lunatic Court were more about wacky antics first, with a hidden underlining of cruelty and apathy. This is what made Thorn and co. fun yet disturbing.

In Guild Wars 2, Thorn and his court are more about sinisterism, with a coating of laughs. Eddie is, however, just sadism – no jokes to him at all. This has made Thorn and co. a uncomfortable with a few laughs in-between.

It’s got little to nothing to do about “violence against women for laughs”. Thorn has become overall very dark. In GW1, sure we knew he skinned villages and taxed towns to mass starvation, but they were all presented as jokes – no one could really be absolutely certain that he actually did these things. In GW2, however, we get to see Thorn without that humor – the scavenger hunt for example. He beat women, killed his friends and family, torched towns and forced people to watch their loved ones burn alive, cut off entire villages’ hands, beheaded political enemies, etc. etc. And then plays it all off as a joke. Very different Thorns between each game. Like none of the original writers of Thorn from GW1 put any amount of effort into Thorn in GW2.

Thorn in GW2 is more of an all around kitten who plays his evilness off as a joke. And his evil goes FAR beyond just domestic violence.

I’m going to have to disagree with you on this one Konig, I was there for all of the GW1 Halloween’s and it wasn’t that difficult to find the references to the depravity and cruelty that Thorn did to his own people while King. You just needed to look, listen and read…it was all there, though with much more humor thrown in, but the beheadings, etc., etc. where mentioned…just not as often.

As for those that classify him as crazy or psychotic…I disagree, King Henry the VIII was not crazy or psychotic, and he killed his wives(personally, I detest the “reason by insanity” plea, whether it be for criminal purposes or not).

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Posted by: Thanatos.2691

Thanatos.2691

My little sister and I laugh so hard during the dialogue between the Bloody Prince and the Mad King. She even told our mum some of the jokes later, and she’s very anti-violence; even she found the jokes hilarious. Perhaps this is because the jokes may be poking fun at some of the monarchs throughout history and the how ridiculous their quarrels seem to us in modern society.

Whatever the inspiration for these jokes, I still love them to death and there’s no better time for twisted humor than Halloween season!

Golden shackles are still golden.

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Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086

Konig Des Todes.2086

I’m going to have to disagree with you on this one Konig, I was there for all of the GW1 Halloween’s and it wasn’t that difficult to find the references to the depravity and cruelty that Thorn did to his own people while King. You just needed to look, listen and read…it was all there, though with much more humor thrown in, but the beheadings, etc., etc. where mentioned…just not as often.

As for those that classify him as crazy or psychotic…I disagree, King Henry the VIII was not crazy or psychotic, and he killed his wives(personally, I detest the “reason by insanity” plea, whether it be for criminal purposes or not).

I never said it was hard to see it – Thorn himself makes a highlight of it. It’s just that, unlike GW2, they’re the butt of jokes so it’s harder to decern truth from fiction.

In other words, in GW1, it was humor first and sinister-ness second.

In GW2, however, it’s sinister-ness first, humor second.

And this makes a noticeable difference that makes Thorn quite a bit less entertaining – and almost makes him seem like a different person – than in GW1.

Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.

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Posted by: Sorean.5379

Sorean.5379

For some reason I feel bad for his wives,but I don’t actually see it as an offense or anything like that.

Also,it is just a game,these stories are not even real.

Actually,it is funny because of the way Mad King says it,if he was all dark and evil,had an evil voice and was sane,it would be terrifying!

But we all know he is mad.

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Posted by: Vexander.9850

Vexander.9850

I’d just take it as further proof that in the Guild Wars universe, Men are Evil, and Women are Good, Pure, and Innocent. Most of the good, honorable, just leaders are women after all. Pale Tree, Jennah, etc… So many heroes have been women fighting against men, like Jora. Even on the higher planes women hold more positions, than men, and in better light.

Dwayna – Goddess of Healing, Leader of the Six. Healing is so nice.
Melandru – Goddess of Nature. Nature is how we live and survive. How kind of her.
Lyssa – Goddess of Illusion. In her story we see how she uses Illusion to teach others, and reward those who are kind.
Kormir – Goddess of Truth. Truth is a good thing, a mark of an honorable individual, and her ascension to power came when the evil male god of lies was defeated no less.

Compare the four above to:

Balthazar – God of War. War is bad. War kills people, destroys homes and families…
Grenth – God of Death. Death is bad. No one wants to die. It’s scary.

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Posted by: lordkrall.7241

lordkrall.7241

^ Someone seems to have forgotten that multiple of the villains in GW2 have actually been female.

Mai Trin is quite clearly female.
So was Scarlet.
Or Varesh in Nightfall.

I think it is simply that people do have issues with fiction that actually gives women credit due to that not being “how it is supposed to be” in the western world currently.

Krall Bloodsword – Mesmer
Krall Peterson – Warrior
Piken Square

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Posted by: Tuomir.1830

Tuomir.1830

I’d just take it as further proof that in the Guild Wars universe, Men are Evil, and Women are Good, Pure, and Innocent. Most of the good, honorable, just leaders are women after all. Pale Tree, Jennah, etc… So many heroes have been women fighting against men, like Jora. Even on the higher planes women hold more positions, than men, and in better light.

Dwayna – Goddess of Healing, Leader of the Six. Healing is so nice.
Melandru – Goddess of Nature. Nature is how we live and survive. How kind of her.
Lyssa – Goddess of Illusion. In her story we see how she uses Illusion to teach others, and reward those who are kind.
Kormir – Goddess of Truth. Truth is a good thing, a mark of an honorable individual, and her ascension to power came when the evil male god of lies was defeated no less.

Compare the four above to:

Balthazar – God of War. War is bad. War kills people, destroys homes and families…
Grenth – God of Death. Death is bad. No one wants to die. It’s scary.

Dwayna is also the goddess of air, and is affiliated with storms. Storms kill people, Dwayna bad.

Melandru is the goddess of nature, and such predation and beasts fall under her. Wild beasts kill people, Melandru bad.

Lyssa are the goddesses of beauty and illusion, illusion is deceitful, deceit is bad, Lyssa bad.

Kormir is the goddess of truth, truth hurts, Kormir bad.

Abaddon wasn’t the god of lies at any point, he was the god of secrets. Before his fall,, his creed was “Act with magic, act within reason, act without mercy”. That implies rationality. Rationality is good, Abaddon good.

Grenth is the god of death, and he overtook the job from tyrannical Dhuum. He judges souls and delivers them to afterlife. Judge is good, Grenth good.

Balthazar is the god of war – in a very violent world where people NEED strength of arms. Power to protect is good, Balthazar is good.

Look, ma’, I can present biased views, too!

Only fools and heroes charge in without a plan.