Guild Wars 2

Hello everyone,

there have been a lot of appreciation threads about this chapter of the living story. This thread is going to be a bit different : I’d like to have a place to centralize and speculate about the ending cutscene. link to the cutscene

WARNING! A WALL OF TEXT IS INCOMING

As it turns out, the final cutscene is full of info and lore about the world:

1) The magic and the ley lines are descibed as a “current” that circulate through tyria. Surprize, when viewing the eternal alchemy, the PC is swimming. This confirms what we already know.

2) The video features 3 major actors of the world :
=> The dragons (6 colored spheres)
=> The pale tree
=> The “central eye” (The central sphere in the image attached) that pulses with energy and that is merging with one colored sphere.

3) About the dragons : Notice that the spheres are “activated” by the central eye (the beam of energy comes from the eye towards a colored sphere). The order of activation is as follows :
- Primordius (red)
- Bubbles (blue)
- Jormag (white)
- Zaithan OR Mordremoth (light green) <- This is the ball that merges with the central eye!
- Kralkatorrik (purple)
- Mordremoth OR Zaithan (dark green)

What I can conclude for sure from this : bubbles is the second elder dragon to awake following primordius (this contradicts the wiki).

Now let’s speculate:
Theory #1: Let us presume the order of activation of the spheres corresponds to the true order of awakening of the elder dragons.

Even though we slew him 2 years ago, Zaithan (or at least his power source) is not gone. He has merged with the central eye and this has an influence over the world (screen turning green at the end of the video).

Theory #2: The light green sphere is the one representing Mordremoth.

Mordremoth has started to awaken long ago (and is probably the reason why the maguuma jungle became the maguuma wastes) but the intervention of Scarlet was the final straw that turned him fully active. After all he has been influencing Scarlet for a while as Jormag influenced the norn, long before he fully emerged. Notice that if this theory is true, all the dragons on the right of the screen create their minions by corrupting sentient beings (icebrood, undead, branded) while the dragons on the left create their minion from non sentient beings (lava ; plant and water ?)

It would also mean that Mordremoth is trying to mess up with the central eye more than the other dragon. Why ? To catch up with the power of other dragons ?

Theory #3: The order of activation has nothing to do with the order of awakening.
I guess I’m gonna ask for suggestions on this one.

4) The pale tree:
In the inital part of the video one can hear voices. The only one I have recognised starts at 0:15 : the pale tree says : “Do not question the dream, we must all do our part”.

I take it as an evidence of the major role the pale tree has in the world. A role that is as important as the dragon since they are both shown in this video. Is this a confirmation that the pale tree is an arch nemesis of the dragon as a whole ? I don’t think so.
They are other “sylvari spawning tree” in the world. Yet, only the pale tree is shown. What makes this tree so special that it is an important part of the eternal alchemy ? What is “the part” the pale tree has to play ? Did ronan and ventari influenced the tree so much that it became more powerful that what it was supposed to be ?

5) The central eye: IMO, this is a symbolic representation of the magic potential of tyria. Mordremoth is probably trying to extend his reach by following the ley lines closely. Even though he is in the maguuma wastes, he can reach places as far as the shiverpeaks. Kralkatorrikk can go back home.

Anyway I’ve talked way too much. What have YOU learned from this video ? Which theory do you prefer ? Discuss!

i think your theory 2 it’s correct. Modremoth wants the Pale Tree but he wants ALL trees that are in the world. If he can conquer all of them it means more minions everywhere sooooo Bingo for him! xD

You may want to take into account that the ‘Champion’ of the Dragon awakes b4 the actual Dragon does. When Primordus champion was defeated it didn’t wake up for another 50y I think (from recollection).

Now the Pale tree strikes me a lot in resemblance with Glint, who was another Champ (of Kralkatorrik) that got turned to the good side. The Pale tree has the same ‘air’ to it. So if the Pale tree was ‘intended’ to be the champion of Mordremoth, but due to the influence of Ventari got ‘turned’, then technically Mordremoth awoke when the pale tree did (in relation to the ’activation of spheres in the vid), but her turning might have delayed the actual awakening until recently (by the actions of Scarlet).

The order would then be:
- Primordus
- Bubbles
- Jormag
- Mordremoth (<- this is the current most active dragon, and also the ball that merges with the centre)
- Kralkatorrik
- Zaithan

So the end sort of tells us the order in which the dragons awoke, and the merging sort of tells us ‘whos time’ it is. This may mean that for every cycle of dragon awakening there is one to be the dominant force to shape the world until the next awakening. In this view Kralkatorrik might have been the ‘activated’ dragon from the last period, as it’s Champion ‘Glint’ then played a major role in the unravelling of the time in between (mainly GW1 and the flame seeker prophecies).

On the other hand, we did not get to see beyond that one point, will the orb eventually leave the center, and all orbs go back to their places. And then during this dragon age, will something then start the process again, lighting up all the orbs in the order of awakening, to then place one in the center. Which might have been the case during the huge expansion time of Zaithan, and similar in regards to Bubbles, driving the deep sea creatures to the shores and shallow waters (and have our PC’s simply but mistakenly contributed this to Zaithan, because as these creatures showed up it was Zaithan that was the dragon mostly advancing on the sentient Races… And have the deep water creatures simply assumed that when our PC’s said ‘Dragon / Zaithan’, ‘we’ meant ‘Dragon / Bubbles’. What’s in a name? That which we call a Dragon, By any other name, would be as horrifying as any other…

Another thought that just struck me, what if the orbs are actually the Champions, as they awake b4 the actual dragons do (to amass a small army in preparation of the dragons awakening, scavenging some magical artefacts as if to prepare a morning coffee). Then the vision could mean that the champion of Mordremoth has managed to collect enough ‘magic’ or some other trigger (perhaps just that it’s ‘its’ time) to awaken the dragon.

In that sense then perhaps the pale treeS are meant to produce inquisitive entities, that at some point find out or deem to see it fit to awaken Mordremoth. Scarlet in a sense, was a tragedy of someone that felt she had to have the freedom to choose between more than ‘The Dream’ or ‘The nightmare’, and by her actions she actually did that what ‘in essence’ was the one thing she was set out to do. A certain destiny that was laid b4 her, as the only ‘free’ choice… Not the pale tree, but Scarlet herself functioned as the Champion of Mordremoth, quite possibly, due to her other research (mainly the plant poison), aware of the sick twist of fate, taking the precautions to then also free herself of this fate by defeating her new master, ending up ‘in essence’ as the new Glint.

Things I think:

-The map is a representation of Tyra as a magic universe.
-The small orbs represent the dragons.
-The big middle orb represents the magic of Tyra.
-The Pale Tree is the guardian of the magic of Tyra (Big Middle Orb).

First I would like to clarify something in you statement #3.

VodCom.6924:

What I can conclude for sure from this : bubbles is the second elder dragon to awake following primordius (this contradicts the wiki).

If we are strict about what the wiki says, it never mentions the date of awakenning of Bubbles. But looking around in the lore of Kraits its says:

Fifty years ago, however, they were forced out of the Unending Ocean’s deepest trenches, their former homeland, by the deep sea dragon’s forces.

and

There has been mention of the krait, quaggan and other sea-creatures that have been driven out of the sea by an “underwater dragon”, and the invasion of the krait, who formerly lived in the deepest trenches of the Unending Ocean, into quaggan lands 50 years ago coincide with the approximate awakening of this dragon.

If we are in 1327AE then that means the Quaggan and the Krait arrived around 1275AE and looking at the last quote Bubbles awoke around that time.

So my own conclusions are:

1.- ArenaNet is hintting us the true year of Bubbles awakenning 1120-1165 AE (remeber wiki is mostly made by fans).

If this were true there are two options:
-Zhaitan is alive.
-Zhaitan’s magic went back to Tyra.
-AN made a mistake and is actually Mordremoth trying to fuse/absorb the magic of Tyra.

I can’t develop more this theories for the lack of information, both of them looks kind of incompatible with what we know at the moment.

2.- The order of shinning it’s just random.

It doesn’t look probable but It may be the best for the development of the story. We know Mordremoth has acces to one of the biggest lay lines in Tyra that are related to waypoints, and some waypoints now look destroyed by tangles, tangles that Taimi thinks are Mordremoth himself. It may be a way to absorb the magic of Tyra and that would explain the last scene we watched with the Green Orb Fusing with the Big Middle Orb.

The next chapter we are gonna talk with the Pale Tree and hopefully a little more will be revelead.

@Kiba … look at the vision, a beam of light eminates from the center to ‘awaken’ each ‘orb’…

How do dragons awake? We (I think) only know of what happened with Primordus, but no reason to think otherwise for the other dragons… And what happened there? The Champion awoke first, way earlier actually than the Dragon itself…

Sooo, what if these orbs just represent a domain of certain magic, which is represented by a Dragon. The center sends out a ‘call’ and the CHAMPION awakes, he makes the preparations for the actual awakening of the Dragon… This then tells us that the ‘order’ of awakening is exactly like the vision tells us, only not the order the dragons awake, but the order their respected Champions awake…

If Mordremoth was the 4th to awake, or at least his Champion, then what ‘on Tyria’ took him so long to awaken himself. To some extend I still believe that the actual Pale Tree was supposed to be the Champion of Mordremoth, ‘but’, she may have suffered a case of ‘The Glint’. Turned to the bright side she has…

Which may or may not have meant for Mordremoth to ‘grow another tree’, and seeing we don’t know how large a force a Dragon longs b4 he awakens, various years for the tree to grow (or possibly trees). Makes me wonder what that other tree is like now, they didn’t have a dream, do they now then just bow to the master?

Fairly complicated that last bit is… but at least by using the Awakening order of Dragons. Champion – Raise Army & Gather Magical Morning Coffee Objects – Awaken the Boss. To then linking that back to the vision, at least it somewhat makes sense, which ever reason there is/was for the possible delay in the true awakening of Mordremoth. if there was any…

VodCom.6924:

Hello everyone,

there have been a lot of appreciation threads about this chapter of the living story. This thread is going to be a bit different : I’d like to have a place to centralize and speculate about the ending cutscene. link to the cutscene

WARNING! A WALL OF TEXT IS INCOMING

As it turns out, the final cutscene is full of info and lore about the world:

1) The magic and the ley lines are descibed as a “current” that circulate through tyria. Surprize, when viewing the eternal alchemy, the PC is swimming. This confirms what we already know.

2) The video features 3 major actors of the world :
=> The dragons (6 colored spheres)
=> The pale tree
=> The “central eye” (The central sphere in the image attached) that pulses with energy and that is merging with one colored sphere.

3) About the dragons : Notice that the spheres are “activated” by the central eye (the beam of energy comes from the eye towards a colored sphere). The order of activation is as follows :
- Primordius (red)
- Bubbles (blue)
- Jormag (white)
- Zaithan OR Mordremoth (light green) <- This is the ball that merges with the central eye!
- Kralkatorrik (purple)
- Mordremoth OR Zaithan (dark green)

What I can conclude for sure from this : bubbles is the second elder dragon to awake following primordius (this contradicts the wiki).

Now let’s speculate:
Theory #1: Let us presume the order of activation of the spheres corresponds to the true order of awakening of the elder dragons.

Even though we slew him 2 years ago, Zaithan (or at least his power source) is not gone. He has merged with the central eye and this has an influence over the world (screen turning green at the end of the video).

Theory #2: The light green sphere is the one representing Mordremoth.

Mordremoth has started to awaken long ago (and is probably the reason why the maguuma jungle became the maguuma wastes) but the intervention of Scarlet was the final straw that turned him fully active. After all he has been influencing Scarlet for a while as Jormag influenced the norn, long before he fully emerged. Notice that if this theory is true, all the dragons on the right of the screen create their minions by corrupting sentient beings (icebrood, undead, branded) while the dragons on the left create their minion from non sentient beings (lava ; plant and water ?)

It would also mean that Mordremoth is trying to mess up with the central eye more than the other dragon. Why ? To catch up with the power of other dragons ?

Theory #3: The order of activation has nothing to do with the order of awakening.
I guess I’m gonna ask for suggestions on this one.

4) The pale tree:
In the inital part of the video one can hear voices. The only one I have recognised starts at 0:15 : the pale tree says : “Do not question the dream, we must all do our part”.

I take it as an evidence of the major role the pale tree has in the world. A role that is as important as the dragon since they are both shown in this video. Is this a confirmation that the pale tree is an arch nemesis of the dragon as a whole ? I don’t think so.
They are other “sylvari spawning tree” in the world. Yet, only the pale tree is shown. What makes this tree so special that it is an important part of the eternal alchemy ? What is “the part” the pale tree has to play ? Did ronan and ventari influenced the tree so much that it became more powerful that what it was supposed to be ?

5) The central eye: IMO, this is a symbolic representation of the magic potential of tyria. Mordremoth is probably trying to extend his reach by following the ley lines closely. Even though he is in the maguuma wastes, he can reach places as far as the shiverpeaks. Kralkatorrikk can go back home.

Anyway I’ve talked way too much. What have YOU learned from this video ? Which theory do you prefer ? Discuss!

I think its like this

Dark blue (Bubbles) ( Kormir/Abbadon ) Purple (Kralkatorrik) (Lyssa)
Light Green(Mordremoth) (Melandru) BlackGreenZhaitanGrenth/Druum
Red (Primordious) (Balthazaar/Menzies) Light blue (Jormag) (Dwayna)

Another thread resurrecting the “Pale Tree is a dragon champion” theory.

Sigh. No.

Glint only got free will because the Forgotten used a powerful spell to do so. Nothing indicates that Ventari’s Tablet was anything more than a regular tablet he wrote his teachings on (which are apparently based on even older teachings, as the friendly Maguuma centaurs echo similar words yet apparently weren’t familiar with Ventari at all.)

The only way that the theory works is if the Pale Tree’s seed (or whatever spawned it) was also purified of the dragon’s influence long ago in the same way by the Forgotten or another ritual/spell used by others to the same effect, then hidden where it was.

And nothing so far in-game or out, has indicated as such.

As for the cutscene, I think the green orb crashing into the middle represented either Mordremoth looking at us during the vision (or at Scarlet rather, if the vision turns out to be an elaborate recording of what she saw), or it trying to spread over Tyria.

Also noted is that the black orb, considered to be Zhaitan, is around even though he’s dead (allegedly, you can never be too sure with the undead unless you burn them). This suggests that either:

-While Zhaitan himself is dead, his will/power persists through all the Risen that remain, thus even though he’s dead, he’s not defeated. Also, it spread to the remaining Risen, explaining why the ones we fight in Arah explorable are stronger than the ones we faced in Story Mode, as well as Tequatl’s power-up.

- The dragons, being similar to the gods, can’t truly be “killed”, just put to slumber, or if they are killed, their power remains regardless, and they return eventually.

As fr the Pale Tree being in the center, well..I can’t really say anything conclusive about that, since this ultimately seems to require the answer to the following question:

“Where did the Pale Tree come from, and for what purpose?”

Seeing as that has remained shrouded in mystery, even to the Sylvari themselves (although Caithe apparently knows rumors of where the seed was taken from, in one plotline), figuring out what it means for the Tree to be in the center of that vision is something we’ll have to wait and see on.

Nilkemia.8507:

Another thread resurrecting the “Pale Tree is a dragon champion” theory.

Sigh. No.

I never said this personnaly. I merely said that the pale tree is a part of the eternal alchemy that is as important as the dragon since they are both shown in omadd’s machine.

Otherwise I mostly agree with what you said : glint has been freed from kralk and the pale tree is not a freed dragon champion unless we have solid evidences of the contrary in the future.

There are 6 spheres (dragons) from what i understand. One we killed Zhaitan. Shouldn’t his sphere be an empty spot? I think his sphere is the middle-right one because it’s black. Even if he is not trully dead because he represents some kind of entity like “death” that can never be killed..it’s part of nature and stuff…. the sphere should be represented in some other way considering we kinda dealt with him.

So we have like this:
Top-left – should be Jormag
Middle-left – Flower power dragon
Bottom-left – Primordius (?)
——-
Top-right – Kralkatorrik
Middle-right – Zhaitan (that sphere should be gone)
Bottom-right – Baby Jesus Dragon

Harvest.2506:

VodCom.6924:

…

Anyway I’ve talked way too much. What have YOU learned from this video ? Which theory do you prefer ? Discuss!

I think its like this

Dark blue (Bubbles) ( Kormir/Abbadon ) Purple (Kralkatorrik) (Lyssa)
Light Green(Mordremoth) (Melandru) BlackGreenZhaitanGrenth/Druum
Red (Primordious) (Balthazaar/Menzies) Light blue (Jormag) (Dwayna)

Btw. I thought almost the same.

https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/158848/gw444.jpg
http://wiki.guildwars.com/images/8/85/Realm_of_Torment_map.jpg

Why am I not surprised that Scarlet is mad? Abaddon returns?