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Posted by: PopeUrban.2578

PopeUrban.2578

@PopeUrban, we do not know that for a fact, the Human’s attribute the ‘Necro’ powers to Grenth, as they are related to the underworld. Aka. they come with the office. But we do not know for sure that even though Grenth sits in the office, technically the powers come from a magical plain that still sees Dhuum as it’s representative.

Some of this can be deducted from the Lore of Dhuum, who is said to grow stronger with every death…

So, I were to say, there is the chair that rules over the underworld and the powers that come with it, and there is the representative that is ‘supposed’ to sit on it, and the one that is ‘currently’ (or at least during the time of the gods) sitting on it, and exercises the powers that come with the chair. Like I said earlier, this is a definition question and not one that can be solved by clashing opinions.

In regards to Malchor btw. If Dwayna was Grenths mother, then do you think what I’m thinking ?

That’s just it, we’re not certain the powers originate from the underworld, only that they answer to the sphere of death. The underworld isn’t the be all end all afterlife, but rather a plane that the gods of death chose to send some souls to. Necromancers can assemble minions and use corpses from any living thing, yet all living things don’t end up in the underworld. Humans, by and large, end up there, but some get to go to the hall of heroes. All the other races of tyra (that existed in canon at the time the zone was created) had no presence there. No dwarf spirits, or forgotten, or Charr, etc.

I contest that necromantic powers and thus “power over death” doesn’t originate from the underworld, but rather the underworld was a plane created with those powers.

Guild Master – The Papacy [POPE] (Gate of Madness)/Road Scholar for the Durmand Priory
Writer/Director – Quaggan Quest
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ky2TGPmMPeQ

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Posted by: Arghore.8340

Arghore.8340

Quite possible, and an interesting viewpoint, created just like the realm of torment is said to be created… or possibly already existing as a realm of said power, and merely linked to the plane of Tyria (seeing not all scholars agree on whether the realm of torment existed or was created, and whether it still exists).

It still leave the option though that the seat of power in that realm would be considered the ruler over said power (aka grenth) though that ‘from the view point of said realm’ Dhuum was it’s right full ruler.

We are peace, we are war. We are how we treat each other and nothing more…
25 okt 2014 – PinkDay in LA

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Posted by: Ariella Goldstein.3562

Ariella Goldstein.3562

Ehrm not realy, we saw the pale tree b4 we saw the ‘diagram’, so we move past the Pale tree, to get to it, this is also what Scarlet experienced. The ‘assumption’ that this means that the pale tree is at the center of the diagram, is only based upon a sketch made by Scarlet, which by all mean, might just be that, trying to make sense of it all… And she, like you, assume that how we pass the tree, indicates that the white (both are whitish) means that the tree is the center. No proof of it though…

We can only go on what we’ve been told in the episodes, nothing else. When we have more information we can adapt or change the hypothesis. Considering we hear the Pale Tree speaking as well as seeing the orb, I’d take that as proof that the Tree is involved, and since just before you see the orbs, you see a white stylized tree in the center, which is similar to the tree in Scarlet’s diagram. It’s actually IN her room if you take a close look. It’s surprising detail.

What I do see as proof though, or at least a very strong hint. Is this: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/lore/lore/zaitan-dark-green-orb/first#post4222396 Which explains why Mordremoth as a Dragon is so late to arrive, if his orb is the 4th to light up… And while I will agree that pointing at the pale tree is an assumption, it would explain the whole thing (and yes, that means that the pale tree suffered a case of ‘the Glint’, but ‘you know’, look at GW1 … some things just seem to return and come back), and obviously that theory (linked) is an assumption too…

There’s absolutely no evidence to support this in game. We have no idea why the orbs were arranged that way. It’s not something that’s addressed. And as I said above we hear the Pale Tree’s voice and see a white tree before going to the orbs.

Still though, and that is my biggest problem with this Occam’s razor thing, regardless of the reason why Mordi would go after the PaleTree (as Kralki did with Glint). Using just that as a means of concluding, ‘Mordi went after the Pale tree because they are both plant like’. While conclusions based upon observation, it may not be the actual reason…

No, what’s being said is that the Pale Tree is the target because she’s a mystical plant, which is M’s sphere of influence/nature whatever. That’s the most basic logical explanation for what the vision was based on what we saw and heard.

I’m getting sort of lost on you on that last 4 bits though, but I will answer to that 5th (from the bottom). Why did scarlet see that vine, scarring the Pale tree? Well because maybe that is the ‘true form’ of the pale tree. In a sense you can ‘also’ see that as a hint that the Pale Tree was supposed to be Mordremoth’s minion factory… (or maybe it was what scarlet thought she was. as she then after the vision grew some herself.)

On the lost bit then? Who’s birth would have been highlighted? The pale tree’s birth? cuz if so, it was in the last episode of GW1: Eye of the North.

Or it could just be how Scarlet’s mind interpreted the attack. Again simplest explanation. There’s never been any indication that the tree has another form, or mutated in some way. In fact there’s evidence in the game that there is another tree that spawned sylvari (it’s in one of the mid level Sylvari PS quests that you run across a Sylvari who is not connected to the Tree, but is not Soundless or Nightmare Court, and because of that the Court is trying to corrupt him)

Who knows, but if ‘a Sylvari’ approaches a dark morbid nightmarish branch of Sylvari and suggests: ‘Lets make a huge life producing tree of our own, producing toxicating seeds, and plant/krait like monstrosities’. That would strike those Nightmare Court as something that sounds like a good plan ?

Again, we have no proof of that. We don’t know where the toxic plants used by the Toxic Alliance came from, though it would make more sense if they were something Scarlet and her allies produce rather than from yet another sentient tree.

Scarlet’s a scientist and engineer. We’re told after the attack on Divinity’s Reach that she studied a number of disciplines in her time with the Azura. It makes more sense that this was something she produced in a lab and not a product of an external source.

As for the Nightmare Court, again the simplest answer is that Scarlet shared some of her vision with her. I doubt she told them all of it, but yes offering a way to corrupt the Tree would have appeal since their efforts to date haven’t yielded anything.

We have to go on what we know from the stories presented in game, nothing else.

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Posted by: SkipOne.8430

SkipOne.8430

“Grenth, Prince of Ice, God of Death. He embodies inevitability, the idea that all things have a time… and that time must inevitably pass.” — Desmina

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Statue_of_Grenth

“Dwayna, goddess of air and life, beloved to me. She is the promise of salvation whispered in my ear, the silent resolve to carry on. How my heart yearns to bask in her light once again.” — Malchor

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Statue_of_Dwayna_

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Posted by: Arghore.8340

Arghore.8340

@Ariella, I can see we just see things differently, so I can just go and repeat myself, and you as well, and we be in limbo like that until the end of time. Or, I guess, we will both have to wait and see, and then conclude if anymore information can sway the balance.

Though I will have to comment on that last bit: ‘Lets MAKE a huge …’ is what I wrote, so what you wrote there after is actually what I meant. And could! have been the reason for the NC to say yes to the alliance, which was what I was answering there

We are peace, we are war. We are how we treat each other and nothing more…
25 okt 2014 – PinkDay in LA

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Posted by: Brother Grimm.5176

Brother Grimm.5176

As mentioned slightly, maybe Pale Tree is really Morde’s (unwilling) Champion….like Glint was Kalyx’s?

We go out in the world and take our chances
Fate is just the weight of circumstances
That’s the way that lady luck dances

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Posted by: Noviere.7309

Noviere.7309

If this were the case, the Pact probably told us already… like they told us about Mordremoth. It just happened off camera.

(edited by Noviere.7309)