Guild Wars 2

ProtoGunner.4953:

Moyayuki.3619:

PopeUrban.2578:

ProtoGunner.4953:

It’s the ‘Game of Thrones Effect’ how I call it. Since killing off key characters is dramatic and I noticed in many shows that after GoT had this much success, many shows do it. It’s ‘in’. Also, GW2 got criticized by a lot of players to be too childish/Disney-like, harmless events and no one dies you love (well unless you loved Tybalt…).

The difference is that when they do it in those popular television properties those sudden deaths have context and meaning. They’re not just random offing of characters. They usually serve as the end of an important plot arc, a logical conclusion of a long held grudge, or a way to establish a relationship and grow other characters.

Eir’s death serves only as a character development lever for braham, but the WAY in which she died was so inappropriate in context and execution that it fell flat. It was obvious that she died because the plot needed her to, not because there was any compelling story arc that led to her death.

A sudden character death can be effective when done correctly. Since you mention Game of Thrones, all of the sudden deaths in that series served as critical plot points. I don’t want to spoil the show for anyone, but if you look back on those deaths they all make sense and are usually big payoffs for the overall narrative structure.

Eir’s death did not mark the end of any plot arc, or the beginning of any other plot arc. It was not a narrative payoff. It was just sort of tossed in in the middle of an existing arc in an effort to help develop an underdeveloped character, and in the end that character, Braham, was not significantly effected enough by it for it to have any gravity at all anyway.

Contrast that with Traherne’s death. Traherne’s death had meaning, it was a logic end to a plot arc, and it served a purpose. It was belivable that he died, it was impactful for the world around him, and it was a death fitting of both the charactar and the story. The same goes for your order mentor, Scarlet Briar, several major release villains, and a host of other GW2 characters that have died.

Stein and company CAN do better. They HAVE done better. In this case they simply dropped the ball, likely due to an accelarated development schedule or limited resources to turn the writing in to playable reality.

+1
You mention a lot of good points. I may not have seen all the GoT seasons, but I have read the books and even I can admit that all deaths did have purpose, context, and meaning, even the grisly ones.

Guess I will have to continue the HoT Living Story to see for myself if Braham changes at all. I haven’t really paid any attention to these new characters so far because they really don’t intrigue me in any way…

Absolutely agree. They tried hard in GW2. It’s typical game story telling imo: mostly not so good. If you want good story, play ‘The Last of Us’ or ‘Mass Effect’ (1+2).

Not so interested in actually playing TLoU, but I am pretty far into the story of ME2, just need to beat it. And on the topic of meaningful video game character deaths: Halo 4, IMO. Halo 5 then spits on it, ugh.

Anyway, back on topic, I do still feel that Eir’s death was for shock value, especially now that I’ve had more time to think on it. I will see if my opinion changes when I continue the story (need to start the AB part).

It felt pretty sudden and not epic at all. If she had to die, she should have died in a more epic way, rather than being killed by a random mordrem.

Vayne.8563:

I read that completely differently.

Faolin made sure Eir couldn’t run faster than her. She WAS ensuring her own survival. If Eir was faster, the creature would kill her first.

She seemed pretty much aware that Eir would not abandon her if she just played along. She obviously would have considered it a stupidity on Eir’s part, but shouldn’t have been too dumb to take advantage of that. It’s not like she couldn’t turn on Eir later, when she knew she herself was safe.

Instead, she used up precious time to backstab Eir and make sure whatever happens she’d have to face it alone, before she even knew what danger she was in.
Not to mention, there were Eir’s allies around. By stabbing her, she made sure there would be two parties she’d need to escape from.

All in all, that was a rather dumb decision, and up to that point dumb was one thing Faolain was not.

I can agree with that Astral, but I can also see a counter to it. Devil’s advocate, away!

Faolain saw the big monster coming. That’s not implied, it’s directly shown, a glimpse of something big and fast and her taking note of it. It looked tremendously dangerous. She used the principle of “I don’t have to run faster than the bear, I just have to run faster than you” and stabbed Eir to slow her down, figuring that a wounded Eir would act as bait both for the monster and for Eir’s allies, all of whom would converge on the wounded norn while Faolain fled. She didn’t expect to get similarly slowed herself, or realize how far that thing could leap. Nor did she, a consummate Courtier steeped in betrayal, have any gut belief that Eir and her allies wouldn’t hesitate to toss her to the beast to save themselves, so she acted preemptively.

Or maybe it just was that dumb, but she’d been weakened by days without food or drink, wasn’t thinking straight, and Mordremoth played a mindgame to trip her into that path of action. (I do personally agree that backstabbing is dumb. It’s why I can’t rp evil characters for more than brief scenes, as it’s so very clear to me that helping others gets you much further in life. But if you’re a Faolain, you backstab others. It’s what you do).

I had a problem with that scene, and I still do. If it was up to me, here’s how I’d rewrite it:

Faolain trips, and Eir frees her. Faolain sees the monster coming up after them, and as soon as she’s free she rolls clear without warning Eir. It jumps in, knocking Eir face down into the dirt, and its forefoot comes down on Eir’s legs. Eir screams, and Faolain looks back for one moment as if she might try to help, but then runs away. Eir shifts to wolf form to try and break free, but the monster grinds its foot down, crushing Eir’s legs and hurting her badly enough that she passes out and returns to her true form.

At the end of the fight, she’s barely alive. Braham and Rox still split off for a bit to take her to medical aid, unsure if she’ll survive or not. Faolain’s death is shown in a cutscene after the mission, showing that her abandonment of Eir is soon repaid. HoT progresses on from there as normal.

AFTER HoT, however, you’d have the injured Eir still around. Legs shattered, she’ll never walk again. Her depression returns, and she feels worse than useless now, wishing she’d died in battle instead of living like this. And then it’s Taimi that steps in and talks to Eir, getting her to see that she’s still useful, still needed. And in Trahearne’s absence, Eir becomes an adviser to the Pact (or whatever’s left in its wake).

I was wondering how we get Braham the DH out of that, complete with taking up Eir’s bow, but hey, if she’s not out fighting any more she might well pass it on to him. Not that he has DH’d up yet, or found her bow, but since he commented on wanting to find it I expect he will.

My mental rewrite was much closer to the original than yours (and was made the moment I first saw the scene). I thought after her nod to Braham she should have picked up a rock, thrown it at the vinetooth, picked up another rock and charged screaming at it, lurching and limping with one hand clamped to her bleeding side but still very much on the attack like the Norn champion she was. And then had the tail skewer her before she got close, as seen in the game cutscene.

I’m sure the intent was to show her too badly injured to do anything but face her death with dignity, and hopefully songs will be sung of that brave last moment, yet I still wish she’d gone down fighting.

Ok, lets lay out the facts here so this topic can be put to rest:
1. Eir had to fight turned Sylvari while surviving a crashing airship
2. Either she was immediately captured after the crash unconscious, gave up and captured without a fight (unlikely), or fought and was finally subdued.
3. She was denied food and water for days. Yes, she has probably done this before and even after a fight in the wilderness, but that doesn’t mean she was weakened then either.

Assumption:
Be it fighting on board the ship, surviving the crash, and surviving probably a second battle, she could’ve sustained internal injuries that we didn’t know about, such as broken ribs or something.

Now, the faults on why this wasn’t conveyed so well lie on the anet story telling, and the game engine itself.

There could’ve been a step in the story where we SAW Eir taking on countless hordes of enemies, fighting them off as we run and try to save her, only to be delayed long enough for the enemy to take her anyway. That way we could’ve seen her going all out and known she was fighting as hard as she could. This could’ve replaced one of those tracking missions or been added before them. Instead, I feel anet was looking to us to IMAGINE that part ourselves.

The second issue lies in the game engine itself, as it really can’t depict too much actual physical injuries, plus it needs to stay T for teen, so while blood is allowed, its not going to be too graphical, neither are injuries.

There. Can we finally move on from this? Its almost been a year already

Aaaand…now I finally find out that Faolain is still “alive”, just turned into a creepy-as-hell minion. Not looking forward to fighting her, which I’m sure will happen eventually. I just yesterday played through all of the AB story missions.

Reminds me a little of the Dragonlance series when Flint dies. A lifetime of battles won and dies of a heart attack while running. Not all heroes go out in a blaze of glory. Poor Tas.

I think this is a great chance to turn Eir into another legend for Rev’s to invoke since shes dead. An excuse to give Rev’s a longbow weapon.

That, or they could invoke the spirit of pyre fierceshot from guild wars 1 and use his longbow skills.